Harvard vs. NYU

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Bioch3mistry

Bioch3mistry

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It's well into mid-April, and I've been fortunate enough to be accepted into two great programs. As the title suggests, I'm trying to decide between Harvard and NYU; specifically, the HST program at Harvard and the 3-year program at NYU. Essentially it comes down to a decision between time and money vs. location and fit. I feel like my heart is with Harvard, but NYU seems the financially responsible decision. I can't go wrong with either decision, but at the same time, I want to make the right choice for me and feel confident in it.

Harvard
Pros
  • I like Boston a lot more than NYC.
  • The program is perfectly aligned with my goal of becoming a physician-scientist. I have a very strong STEM background I want to tie into my medical career.
  • There seems to be more opportunity for research that I'm interested in.
  • The program is in conjunction with MIT, which means I have access to resources from both schools.
  • Smaller program, which I like, but program size isn't *that* important to me.
Cons
  • Debt. Like, 350k of debt since I wasn't offered aid. I've avoided any debt so far in my life, so suddenly being hit with this much debt is terrifying. However, people I've talked to said it's not worth it to worry about it as I will be able to pay it off/get help with paying it off (for example, I would probably be eligible for some NIH Loan Repayment Programs).
  • 4 years of medical school vs. the 3 from NYU.

NYU
Pros
  • I'm accepted into the 3-year program. I am a non-traditional student 5 years out from undergrad; I want to get a move on with life so the shorter the program the better!
  • COA will be under 100k.

Cons
  • I really am not a fan of NYC. It's very likely I'd do residency there as well, and the thought of living there for 6+ years doesn't sound fun to me (yeah I'm no fun, I know).
  • There are fewer research opportunities for the field I'm interested in.

Summary: I'm already leaning one way, but the finances are really making it hard to pull the trigger on a final decision.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!
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Oof, that’s tough. I’m making a similar decision and I think I’m going with the better finances over HMS, but I also don’t have a geographic preference. 350k in debt is a lot to be facing, especially coming out already 5 years older than many other classmates.

Do you have a sense for what you might want to do as a specialty? It seems like maybe academic medicine, which will not be the highest paying job after residency. Have you thought about doing the full 4 years at NYU and going for residency in a place that you’d more want to settle? That might be the best option in terms of optimizing your debt but also your wellbeing.

If your heart is really with Harvard (and not just because it is HARVARD, but because you think you’d love Boston that much more, etc) then you can take on that debt. But it won’t be easy. It’ll be years to pay that off. Read a lot more about debt finances (there is a really good book by Dr. Ben White about medical school debt that I highly recommend -it’s free online) so that you can make a more informed decision.

Good luck. This is not easy. I think you’re making one of the harder choices this cycle.

(Edit: harder choice because both are really fantastic options, don’t forget that! Both will make you soooo happy in different ways. Which do you value more - financial security or geographical preference and HMS prestige?)
 
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Harvard.

That’s clearly where your heart is, it’s the top institution in the world. You don’t want to have regrets about giving it up in future. Especially in academics, Harvard will trump almost all other institutions in terms of the resources, mentorships, the type of opportunities you’ll be able to find. Doors will open for you for rest of your life. View it as an investment.
 
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@marcosma

To answer your questions, I am pretty set on adult medical oncology. I really enjoy my research in the cancer field and want to stay in the field. After medical school, I'd be specifically looking at research residencies. After that... I don't know lol. Ideally, I'd split my time 50/50 doing research and clinical work, but running my own lab doesn't interest me too much, though I have yet to look into how to do independent research without being a PI.

Thanks for the thoughtful response and the book recommendation! I'll have to look into that - I'm waiting to hear back from the guy who does my retirement fund stuff to see if he knows of anyone who has experience with financial advising for medical school, but I'll have to read up on that book while I wait. Congrats on your successful cycle and good luck!
 
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Full disclosure: NYU student here. I think the answer is personal and comes down to deciding which of these two options would make you less unhappy:
-Living in a city you don't like for 6+ years and lacking the extra prestige that comes with the Harvard name
-Losing 250k and interest plus a year of attending salary
 
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OP, it seems like you want to do academic internal medicine. The caliber of IM programs you could match to from Harvard (so many people stay at MGH/BWH) >>> NYU IM, especially for academics. I would go with Harvard.
 
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Also, NYU student. This is really tough. I can't really advocate for people going to a school in an area they don't like but like Gregor Samsa said it's a matter of what more important to you right now.

Fwiw, should you choose NYU, you're not locked into the 3yr program, and can matriculate out if you want to try to end up back in Boston at a Harvard affiliated program. People match into HMS programs from NYU. Obviously, it'll be easier to match into HMS programs by going to HMS because inbreeding. But it's a middle ground and you'd come out with less debt still.

I'd also look into seeing if HMS is willing to work with you to lower your debt burden. Not sure what they offer specifically but worth a shot. Good luck.
 
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This is a tough one. I think what I would want to know, is if you could get into a good med onc fellowship coming from NYU IM. If plenty of NYU IM residents get into top oncology fellowship programs, I think I would take NYU. I say this as a guy who hates NYC. Yeah, you're in a place you hate, but you graduate with cheaper debt and start earning real doctor money a year earlier. If NYU doesn't send its residents into great oncology programs, in that case I would take Harvard.
 
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Do NYU in four years! Minimizes your NYC time feeling like you are getting paid the $100k/yr savings. It looks like you are getting PhD which will add to your appeal to research residency directors. NYU will not restrict your next phase. You mention MIT but do you know much oncology research are they doing? If you plan to go into private industry for a biomed company doing research, I would say the debt likely isn’t as much of an issue but do your home work for compensation levels and Harvard name would help land the job.
 
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Ahem, um, I’m a pre-med, so please take it easy on me but uh, why give up free tuition? I think it’s wiser if you go to NYU because, well, it’s FREE (not totally of course: room and boarding), and it’s not like NYU is a bad school; it’s actually one of the top five med-schools in the US.
 
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Jvncr said:
Ahem, um, I’m a pre-med, so please take it easy on me but uh, why give up free tuition? I think it’s wiser if you go to NYU because, well, it’s FREE (not totally of course: room and boarding), and it’s not like NYU is a bad school; it’s actually one of the top five med-schools in the US.
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Lol
 
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I'm sorry, why is this a question? I get the money thing, but going to Harvard will more than pay for itself for someone going into academic medicine and wanting to be a physician scientist. I mean, if you were hoping to just do outpatient IM 9-5 somewhere, it doesn't really matter and yeah, save the money. But if you're wanting to be a physician scientist, a Harvard/MIT education is going to catapault you there like NYU can't.
 
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Jvncr said:
Is NYU not top five?
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NYU is definitely not a “Top 5“. Only a couple years ago they were in the 30s. From understanding, the Top 5 are Harvard, Hopkins, Penn, Stanford, and UCSF. NYU’s dean just really knows how to play the USNWR ranking system.
 
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ICON1026 said:
Where would you say NYU's true ranking is around. 10-15 like the Pd rankings indicate?
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Yeah, I would say that’s more accurate. I’ve spoken to a couple PDs at Harvard-affiliated hospitals and they all viewed NYU as outside the Top 10. Keep in mind that these are all arbitrary—you can absolutely be successful and achieve everything you want from NYU.
 
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In terms of actual competivness to get in and quality of students NYU probably is a top 5 since the change to free tuition. People on this site routinely turn down Harvard Hopkins Penn Stanford and UCSF for NYU. This thread in particular and the results of the poll should demonstrate that. In terms of PD rankings it is probably 10-15 but NYU has more positive momentum than any other school and I wouldn't be surprised if it was in the top 10 by that metric soon too.
 
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@9blade thanks for asking! I chose the HST program at Harvard. That being said, it was a hard choice, as both are great programs and seem to have great faculty/staff/students. It ultimately came down to HST is more focused on training physician-scientists and more importantly, the personal decision of determining if living and being happier in Boston would be worth the cost, and for me, I decided that it would be worth the extra work and budgeting. I'm a grad student lol; hard work and a small budget is nothing new to me anyways, and I've been very happy even so.

If someone rich wants to marry me though I'm available. :|

Edit: A few other things that influenced my decision (if anyone cares) were the 3 year vs. 4 year programs. The 3 year program as an older student was a great option, especially at a great school like NYU, but most students end up at NYU for residency, even those that apply outside of the NYU program. 3 years in Manhattan would be fine, but 6+ years I don't think I could do (as I'm looking to apply to the research-focused residencies; I need to do more research on those to determine individual program length but I think they're at least 3-6 year programs). Harvard also seems to draw heavily from its own students in matching for internal medicine, and I believe I would be happy living in Boston for a while to be fine going through medical school and residency+. I did consider the 4-year option at NYU, but when comparing them at that point, Harvard seemed to have more labs that were related to my research interests, and the HST program provides access to resources from MIT and Harvard which is hard to beat, especially since I'm interested in integrating science and math as much as I can with the clinic.

Edit to the edit: Thanks everyone for your input! It's been greatly appreciated, and I wish everyone the best of luck with wherever they are in the process.
 
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Bioch3mistry said:
@9blade thanks for asking! I chose the HST program at Harvard. That being said, it was a hard choice, as both are great programs and seem to have great faculty/staff/students. It ultimately came down to HST is more focused on training physician-scientists and more importantly, the personal decision of determining if living and being happier in Boston would be worth the cost, and for me, I decided that it would be worth the extra work and budgeting. I'm a grad student lol; hard work and a small budget is nothing new to me anyways, and I've been very happy even so.

If someone rich wants to marry me though I'm available. :|

Edit: A few other things that influenced my decision (if anyone cares) were the 3 year vs. 4 year programs. The 3 year program as an older student was a great option, especially at a great school like NYU, but most students end up at NYU for residency, even those that apply outside of the NYU program. 3 years in Manhattan would be fine, but 6+ years I don't think I could do (as I'm looking to apply to the research-focused residencies; I need to do more research on those to determine individual program length but I think they're at least 3-6 year programs). Harvard also seems to draw heavily from its own students in matching for internal medicine, and I believe I would be happy living in Boston for a while to be fine going through medical school and residency+. I did consider the 4-year option at NYU, but when comparing them at that point, Harvard seemed to have more labs that were related to my research interests, and the HST program provides access to resources from MIT and Harvard which is hard to beat, especially since I'm interested in integrating science and math as much as I can with the clinic.

Edit to the edit: Thanks everyone for your input! It's been greatly appreciated, and I wish everyone the best of luck with wherever they are in the process.
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Shoot for the sky
 
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