has anyone thought that becoming a doc will make them into a stereotype

[Maxprime]

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So should we accept this and languish in our inequity, or should we strive to erase our racial bias?

I'm sorry, I couldn't help it. Don't you find it racist to assume that someone has had less opportunities because they're a URM?

 

[Maxprime]

It's irritating because I as well as others here want to be doctors because they decided to do it, and were not forced by their family. You've disrespected me as well as others. I'm living proof against that stupid stereotype. You're not Indian so you wouldn't understand our family/culture/values, so stop trying. I thought you wouldn't give into stereotypes, clearly I was wrong.

There's an enlightened attitude.

Why do you think you get asked in interviews if your parents are forcing you into medicine? It's because it happens all the time. The only mistake is that they don't ask white kids as often - every parent thinks their son or daughter is going to be an attractive, well rested intern on Grey's Anatomy. (not taking call on x-mas morning while some pt is throwing up on them)

 

[flaahless]

I'm sorry, I couldn't help it. Don't you find it racist to assume that someone has had less opportunities because they're a URM?

Is that in response to something I said? If so, my bad, I didn't mean to insinuate that at all.

 

[GoldShadow]

So should we accept this and languish in our inequity, or should we strive to erase our racial bias?

I think we've already made vast strides compared to previous generations! I wouldn't say we're content with the status quo (with regard to stereotypes); but again, stereotypes do exist for a reason. Personally, I think it's impossible to be completely free of all kinds of bias (racial or otherwise). And I think it's okay for stereotypes to exist as long as you don't let them negatively influence your actions.

Just out of curiosity flaahless (I'm not trying to be offensive or instigate anything), when you see someone who is overweight or obese, what is the first or second thought that pops into your head?

 

[flaahless]

I think we've already made vast strides compared to previous generations! I wouldn't say we're content with the status quo (with regard to stereotypes); but again, stereotypes do exist for a reason. Personally, I think it's impossible to be completely free of all kinds of bias (racial or otherwise). And I think it's okay for stereotypes to exist as long as you don't let them negatively influence your actions.

Just out of curiosity flaahless (I'm not trying to be offensive or instigate anything), when you see someone who is overweight or obese, what is the first or second thought that pops into your head?

That can be as difficult to do as to completely free ourselves of all kinds of bias.

I'm not sure what I think of when I see an overweight person. I don't think I have an absolute response.

 

[BigMDT]

" has anyone thought that becoming a doc will make them into a stereotype ? "

YES....I think that me becoming a doctor will make THEM into a stereotype. 👍

 

[SoFlaKnight]

Yeah, I'm pretty much considering just diving into the whole stereotype thing face first by legally changing my last name, so I can be called Dr. Jew😀

 

[pakbabydoll]

Oh, you forgot male desis and female desis...probably the most prominent one...My elder cousin, female, just got married half way through her masters, and so she had to stop studying, even after the families knew that she had been offered a huge huge huge job when her degree was over...on the other hand most guy desis get to study to their hearts content before they HAVE to marry....For those who have seen it, anyone remember scenes from swades or veerzara ? or any other old indian movie?

This girl/guy thing in desi families makes me SICK! Really it is so bad in Pakistan and India that girls actually think they should be treated like that. My Pakistani/Indian female "friends" actually believe that girls belong in kitchen. These girls are not uneducated, either. One of my distant relative quit school last year of MD school and when I asked her why would she do something like this, this is her response " My husband does not like independent girls, he believes that girls should be dependent and stay home with family. He also thinks that education corrupts girls and he did not want me to finish school." The guy is not a dummy either, he is a PA at a hospital. This was last year and it still makes me angry 😡

 

[SoFlaKnight]

This girl/guy thing in desi families makes me SICK! Really it is so bad in Pakistan and India that girls actually think they should be treated like that. My Pakistani/Indian female "friends" actually believe that girls belong in kitchen. These girls are not uneducated, either. One of my distant relative quit school last year of MD school and when I asked her why would she do something like this, this is her response " My husband does not like independent girls, he believes that girls should be dependent and stay home with family. He also thinks that education corrupts girls and he did not want me to finish school." The guy is not a dummy either, he is a PA at a hospital. This was last year and it still makes me angry 😡

That's why all you Indian/Pakistani girls need to find yourselves a nice Jewish guy-It's the whole being raised in a fairly tolerant, matriarchal lineage descending culture thing. Plus we're really good with the parents from being around so many adults at such a young age(Schmoozing at Bar Mitzvah's, anyone?)...I'll even extend the invitation on behalf of male Jewry to Filipino/Vietnamese/Chinese/Korean/Japanese/Thai girls

 

[LaMusicienne]

So should we accept this and languish in our inequity, or should we strive to erase our racial bias?

As an idealist, I think that we should strive to erase our racial bias (in spite of the song, which I think is kinda funny in how it pokes fun of human foibles 😀).

However, I also think that we will never completely eradicate stereotypes. Certain stereotypes are disgusting, and whenever one crosses my mind, I hate myself for thinking of it. But stereotypes come from human nature - from our innate desire to define groups of people or things. I mean, that's how culture arises, isn't it? One group of people assumes a certain identity, and that's how the world perceives them.

Thus I agree with the posters who say that, yes, stereotypes exist and they will never be completely gone, but they should not dictate how we judge individuals.

Also, instead of blindly condemning stereotypes, I think it'll be interesting to understand where they come from by examining history or culture. If we understand how they arise, then it'll perhaps be easier to dissolve them by making the necessary changes.

 

[Twiigg]

So should we accept this and languish in our inequity, or should we strive to erase our racial bias?

I'm pretty sure we're nearing the unlocking of Pandora's Box.... BUT we are never going to get rid of diversity or stereotypes. It's just not going to happen! The goal isn't to become colorblind, but rather to embrace the diversity and the beauty that comes with it. There is racial bias in almost every aspect of society... affirmative action? Now there's racial bias for you.


BTW, I have always though it was funny that we all have these Black, Muslim, Asian, Jewish, etc. clubs on campus, but no White club. Maybe I'll get on that. Wonder how adcoms would feel about it?

 

[Twiigg]

This girl/guy thing in desi families makes me SICK! Really it is so bad in Pakistan and India that girls actually think they should be treated like that. My Pakistani/Indian female "friends" actually believe that girls belong in kitchen. These girls are not uneducated, either. One of my distant relative quit school last year of MD school and when I asked her why would she do something like this, this is her response " My husband does not like independent girls, he believes that girls should be dependent and stay home with family. He also thinks that education corrupts girls and he did not want me to finish school." The guy is not a dummy either, he is a PA at a hospital. This was last year and it still makes me angry 😡

He's probably a bit insecure that she was going to be a doctor while he stayed PA... 🙄

 

[coldweatherblue]

A culture without any biases is weak and will be easily conquered by a strong unified outside force. I just think of it as a continuation of survival of the fittest. Unity = strength. Why exactly are stereotypes bad?

When I'm out with a girl I stereotype every random dude that comes up and talks to her as competition. I try not to appear jealous in front of her because she'll perceive it as though I don't trust her, but I definitely use body language to appear aggressive towards the competitor. It's just biology...

I realize that stereotypes exist but that doesn't mean that I follow them. I will readily admit when I stereotype someone in the wrong way and I'm happy to see people who manage to overcome those stereotypes.

Example, I'm a waiter and when I see a bunch of stoner-looking kids sit at my table I think "I'm going to do a lot of work for this table and I'm probably not going to get paid for it." Most of the time I'm right. I'm very happy when I'm wrong about that stereotype. Regardless I still do my job to the best of my ability despite my stereotype.

I have lived outside the US and encountered many negative stereotypes against Americans. Many times I've ended up having a genuine conversation with the person perpetuating the stereotype and as a result we end up understanding each other better.

Negative stereotypes allow those who overcome them to distinguish themselves.

 

[hopefullkid]

I think they are changing day by day...I mean I have indian friends who are going into bussiness, medicine, law, engineering and some selling drugs all day. So I don't think those sterotypes are accurate these days.

 

[flaahless]

As an idealist, I think that we should strive to erase our racial bias (in spite of the song, which I think is kinda funny in how it pokes fun of human foibles 😀).

However, I also think that we will never completely eradicate stereotypes. Certain stereotypes are disgusting, and whenever one crosses my mind, I hate myself for thinking of it. But stereotypes come from human nature - from our innate desire to define groups of people or things. I mean, that's how culture arises, isn't it? One group of people assumes a certain identity, and that's how the world perceives them.

Thus I agree with the posters who say that, yes, stereotypes exist and they will never be completely gone, but they should not dictate how we judge individuals.

Also, instead of blindly condemning stereotypes, I think it'll be interesting to understand where they come from by examining history or culture. If we understand how they arise, then it'll perhaps be easier to dissolve them by making the necessary changes.

I agree with what you're saying for the most part, especially with the innate desire to define groups. However, culture is different than ethnicity. Culture is the collective beliefs, values, practices etc of a particular group of people, and you're right, it's how a particular group of people define themselves. However, ethnicity is completely beyond our control. So to stereotype someone based on their Indian ethnicity is ridiculous to me. The person could have been adopted by Eskimos and raised in an Eskimo culture, however, just because they "look" Indian, Rogerwilco's knee-jerk reaction is that their parents forced them into the medical profession. I disagree with that. Likewise, in response to another poster, what culture do overweight people belong to?

Also, I don't think it's simple to separate stereotypes from our actions. Take Rogerwilco, his stereotype of Indian premeds is an involuntary response. Like an emotion. And sure he recognized this particular stereotype. But what about stereotypes that aren't as recognizable and may be much more difficult to control.

 

[AlexMorph]

I think they are changing day by day...I mean I have indian friends who are going into bussiness, medicine, law, engineering and some selling drugs all day. So I don't think those sterotypes are accurate these days.

haha, i also know a couple in each category

 

[flaahless]

I'm pretty sure we're nearing the unlocking of Pandora's Box.... BUT we are never going to get rid of diversity or stereotypes. It's just not going to happen! The goal isn't to become colorblind, but rather to embrace the diversity and the beauty that comes with it. There is racial bias in almost every aspect of society... affirmative action? Now there's racial bias for you.


BTW, I have always though it was funny that we all have these Black, Muslim, Asian, Jewish, etc. clubs on campus, but no White club. Maybe I'll get on that. Wonder how adcoms would feel about it?

1. Why not be colorblind? Being culturally blind, maybe not, but colorblind definitely. Color does not = culture.

2. The argument for white clubs is annoying. Like when people say, "why isn't there a white history month? or a WET (White Entertainment Television)?"
Answer is there are plenty. FOX, ABC, CBS etc. And there are plenty of white clubs. The GOP is one, NRA another.

 

[Geekchick921]

I can play that game moderately well. I do play a lot of video games though, but not enough to destroy my social life. 🙂

👍 Us gamer girls need to stick together. I just consider DDR-expertise to be part of the "skinny asian nerd" stereotype.

And to actually contribute to the thread... I guess I can't contribute to the thread. Is there a "white chick" doctor stereotype?

 

[87138]

So why not try and change your current way of thinking so you're not so prejudiced?

I'm optimistic that heading to medical school next year will be a step in the right direction as far as helping to eliminate this prejudice. I come from an area with very few Asian or Indian Americans, and would reasonably expect increased interactions with/exposure to these cultures in medical school.

 

[flaahless]

I'm optimistic that heading to medical school next year will be a step in the right direction as far as helping to eliminate this prejudice. I come from an area with very few Asian or Indian Americans, and would reasonably expect increased interactions with/exposure to these cultures in medical school.

Man, that was an awesome plug for programs to increase diversity in graduate education.

 

[directdoc]

Wow...one interesting thread.

Being an Asian Indian, I've heard every Patel/Indian stereotype in the world, but stereotypes only mean something if you let them get to you. As much as we hate to admit it, we too stereotype about ourselves, whether it is Sardarji jokes, those infamous "50 ways to know you are Indian" lists, or South Indians' educations.

Although I can say that my parents didn't force me to choose medicine, they seem to be VERY VERY proud that I chose this occupation. So of course there is that pressure to continue with it, but I will continue with it because I really want it not because my family wants it. Family pressure may not affect some of the Asians on this forum, but it DOES affect many others, in one way or another.

I'm gonna end up as the typical Indian (female) doctor, but I don't give a rat's a** about the stereotypes!

 

[smeagol]

I think we've already made vast strides compared to previous generations! I wouldn't say we're content with the status quo (with regard to stereotypes); but again, stereotypes do exist for a reason. Personally, I think it's impossible to be completely free of all kinds of bias (racial or otherwise). And I think it's okay for stereotypes to exist as long as you don't let them negatively influence your actions.

Just out of curiosity flaahless (I'm not trying to be offensive or instigate anything), when you see someone who is overweight or obese, what is the first or second thought that pops into your head?

A stereotype in itself isn't necessarily bad. For instance, there might be good stereotypes. This may sound blatantly obvious but stereotypes are bad when they are, you guessed it, negative stereotypes.

The problem isn't that we conceive of stereotypes. If it's a "knee-jerk" reaction for you to form a stereotype, that's fine. It's not really your fault, you couldn't control it. What you can control is to try and not perpetuate the negative stereotype by being silent.

Let's use your example with the obese person. Suppose you see such a person, form the stereotype in your head. Now imagine further you spoke your mind to them out loud. Isn't that terrible? Imagine the horror, if your speaking it was some sort of knee jerk reaction! You might even say it multiple times if that were the case.

To think something, and to say it, are completely different things.

 

[TexanGirl]

Oh, you forgot male desis and female desis...probably the most prominent one...My elder cousin, female, just got married half way through her masters, and so she had to stop studying, even after the families knew that she had been offered a huge huge huge job when her degree was over...on the other hand most guy desis get to study to their hearts content before they HAVE to marry....For those who have seen it, anyone remember scenes from swades or veerzara ? or any other old indian movie?

Oh lord, how did I ever neglect to mention the most prominent example? (I must've been so traumatized and scared of the prospect of something like this happening to me, hah) In my family, anyway, this holds true. It's usually females who are more conscientious with their studies in every society, but reality manages to claw its way through for a lot of Desi girls. It's either: 1) familial pressure to drop their studies because it'll never be applicable to them if they're tending to their family; 2) even if they still harbor ambitions, they get married too early, and find themselves with a truckload of kids at an undesirable age, which sort of kisses their career ambitions goodbye; 3) they get matched with someone who is their polar opposite, and who doesn't approve of their career plans.

Piyush, I always assumed you were just white. I remember answering your query a couple of weeks ago on how to make raita from scratch, lol.

 

[TexanGirl]

A stereotype in itself isn't necessarily bad. For instance, there might be good stereotypes. This may sound blatantly obvious but stereotypes are bad when they are, you guessed it, negative stereotypes.

The problem isn't that we conceive of stereotypes. If it's a "knee-jerk" reaction for you to form a stereotype, that's fine. It's not really your fault, you couldn't control it. What you can control is to try and not perpetuate the negative stereotype by being silent.

Let's use your example with the obese person. Suppose you see such a person, form the stereotype in your head. Now imagine further you spoke your mind to them out loud. Isn't that terrible? Imagine the horror, if your speaking it was some sort of knee jerk reaction! You might even say it multiple times if that were the case.

To think something, and to say it, are completely different things.

A seemingly innocuous, positive stereotype can be just as detrimental as a negative stereotype. For one, it puts those who benefit from the positive stereotype at a higher pedestal than those who don't. And the people benefiting from the positive stereotype aren't necessarily the most deserving of it either. Take for example, me. I routinely get asked for help in physics/math, never mind that these two subjects aren't my strong suits. I finally asked why I was being sought after and why the guy who knew the material best (he's Guatemalan, if it matters) in the class wasn't. They told me, "Well, aren't you like Indian? I figured you'd be good at this stuff." 😱

I don't see how anyone can not be upset at this kind of thinking, even if it's meant in a flattering way. Positive stereotyping promotes preferential treatment, which will only serve to hurt others who don't benefit from it.

 

[smeagol]

A seemingly innocuous, positive stereotype can be just as detrimental as a negative stereotype. For one, it puts those who benefit from the positive stereotype at a higher pedestal than those who don't. And the people benefiting from the positive stereotype aren't necessarily the most deserving of it either. Take for example, me. I routinely get asked for help in physics/math, never mind that these two subjects aren't my strong suits. I finally asked why I was being sought after and why the guy who knew the material best (he's Guatemalan, if it matters) in the class wasn't. They told me, "Well, aren't you like Indian? I figured you'd be good at this stuff." 😱

I don't see how anyone can not be upset at this kind of thinking, even if it's meant in a flattering way. Positive stereotyping promotes preferential treatment, which will hut others who don't benefit from it.

Hrm good example.

 

[Piyush]

Piyush, I always assumed you were just white. I remember answering your query a couple of weeks ago on how to make raita from scratch, lol.

Nah, I am as desi as you can get. My grandfather and all generations before him on my dad's side were the accountants to Holkars in central India, the word for accountant in the language of that time is my last name...

And when the hell did I ask how to make raita, you gotta be confused with someone else, cause I can make pretty much all Indian food, with my eyes closed...

 

[TexanGirl]

Nah, I am as desi as you can get. My grandfather and all generations before him on my dad's side were the accountants to Holkars in central India, the word for accountant in the language of that time is my last name...

And when the hell did I ask how to make raita, you gotta be confused with someone else, cause I can make pretty much all Indian food, with my eyes closed...

Okay, okay, my mistake! I just went back and searched through all my posts. It wasn't you who asked that, but rather someone called "Piyi." I got your names confused.

 

[pakbabydoll]

That's why all you Indian/Pakistani girls need to find yourselves a nice Jewish guy-It's the whole being raised in a fairly tolerant, matriarchal lineage descending culture thing. Plus we're really good with the parents from being around so many adults at such a young age(Schmoozing at Bar Mitzvah's, anyone?)...I'll even extend the invitation on behalf of male Jewry to Filipino/Vietnamese/Chinese/Korean/Japanese/Thai girls

Thanks for the invitation, now all I have to do is find a nice Jewish guy 😛

 

[Insulinshock]

In high school I was a 'jock', in college I'm a 'frat boy' to my friends and a 'nerd' to my classmates.

Im used to it.

 

[sle3pyguii]

👍 Us gamer girls need to stick together. I just consider DDR-expertise to be part of the "skinny asian nerd" stereotype.

And to actually contribute to the thread... I guess I can't contribute to the thread. Is there a "white chick" doctor stereotype?

Haha. I'm actually a guy. That avatar is a korean celebrity.

a white chick doctor stereotype? The only white, female doctor I've met was very hot. That was a good checkup.

 

[whoisthedrizzle]

I'm pretty sure we're nearing the unlocking of Pandora's Box.... BUT we are never going to get rid of diversity or stereotypes. It's just not going to happen! The goal isn't to become colorblind, but rather to embrace the diversity and the beauty that comes with it. There is racial bias in almost every aspect of society... affirmative action? Now there's racial bias for you.

True.

There's no "languishing" involved.

 

[Drogba]

It's irritating because I as well as others here want to be doctors because they decided to do it, and were not forced by their family. You've disrespected me as well as others. I'm living proof against that stupid stereotype. You're not Indian so you wouldn't understand our family/culture/values, so stop trying. I thought you wouldn't give into stereotypes, clearly I was wrong.

Lamest response ever.

 

[Geekchick921]

Haha. I'm actually a guy. That avatar is a korean celebrity.

a white chick doctor stereotype? The only white, female doctor I've met was very hot. That was a good checkup.

Whoops! I still love my fellow gamers... most of the time. Too bad I don't think I'll really live up to that stereotype, though!

 

[TRAMD]

The whole "tall, handsome doctor" thing is getting really old.

 

[Auron]

Lamest response ever.

this guy had no idea what he was talking about, besides knowledge of the stereotype itself. Their is much more then meets the eye, just because he couldn't see the other side doesn't mean he can openly insult others who are pursuing medicine on their own accord. He's not Indian and acts like he knows the whole story. Furthermore, their was no need for him to share his beliefs regarding these stereotypes, keep them to your self so you don't start a flame war.

 

[nick_carraway]

The whole "tall, handsome doctor" thing is getting really old.

Man... residents have such hard lives. <pat pat>

 

[DwyaneWade]

I'm a bit amused and not at all surprised at the very sensitive reaction of some of the Asians in this thread to what RogerWilco said. At least he was being honest, and truth is, that is a common stereotype. And like all stereotypes, there is a bit of truth to it. If you polled all the Indians in our class, I think you would find a significant proportion of them went in because of their parents (at least this is what I have garnered from talking to them). That is not necessarily a bad thing.

As for worrying about fitting the stereotype, just be yourself, and there is nothing wrong with being nerdy 😉

 

[DwyaneWade]

this guy had no idea what he was talking about, besides knowledge of the stereotype itself. Their is much more then meets the eye, just because he couldn't see the other side doesn't mean he can openly insult others who are pursuing medicine on their own accord. He's not Indian and acts like he knows the whole story. Furthermore, their was no need for him to share his beliefs regarding these stereotypes, keep them to your self so you don't start a flame war.

He didn't start the flame war, he openly admitted it was a racist and close-minded point of view after saying it. You are fixating on the issue and should let it go instead of making yourself look foolish.

 

[chaser08]

I'm a bit amused and not at all surprised at the very sensitive reaction of some of the Asians in this thread to what RogerWilco said. At least he was being honest, and truth is, that is a common stereotype. And like all stereotypes, there is a bit of truth to it. If you polled all the Indians in our class, I think you would find a significant proportion of them went in because of their parents (at least this is what I have garnered from talking to them). That is not necessarily a bad thing.

As for worrying about fitting the stereotype, just be yourself, and there is nothing wrong with being nerdy 😉

Hmm...I never heard the Indian stereotype that you guys are talking about (forced into medicine)- at least, as it specifically pertained to Indians. I guess I pretty much have that impression of any 1st Gen American student, since, on average, families seem to play more of a role in (our) lives and (our) parents are more limited in their definitions of success: doctor, lawyer, engineer, business. I am good friends with the Indians in my class, and none of them were forced into medicine.

FWIW, as a black female (1st Gen American, but not pressured into medicine), I would kill for these stereotypes, because, according to stereotypes, I'm either a nurse (in the hospital, even when standing next to my classmates) or a token who probably doesn't *really* deserve to be in med school. At least people assume you are competent. It's annoying to have to fight this on a daily basis, but everybody has their battles. Not trying to throw a pity party - just sayin'.

 

[Gospe1]

FWIW, as a black female (1st Gen American, but not pressured into medicine), I would kill for these stereotypes, because, according to stereotypes, I'm either a nurse (in the hospital, even when standing next to my classmates) or a token who probably doesn't *really* deserve to be in med school. At least people assume you are competent. It's annoying to have to fight this on a daily basis, but everybody has their battles. Not trying to throw a pity party - just sayin'.

I assume you are talking about the model minority stereotype. I think its natural to assume that this sort of "positive" stereotype is somehow desired. The real truth is that the model minority stereotype can be just as damaging to Asian Americans as negative stereotypes are to African Americans. For example, people assume that Asians make more money than whites. And yes, its true if you look at household income. However, what they don't tell you is that Asians have a substantially higher average number of people working in one household. If the statistics for income are revised to per capita, both male and female Asian Americans still make less than Euro Americans on average. Secondly, the model minority stereotype leads to inaction and false assumptions on part of the general population. For example, government assistance is often cut for Asian communities, even though there are serious needs in some of these areas. Politicians (and laymen) tend to assume that those Asians are doing alright and therefore need no help. The model minority stereotype also hides many inequities. For example, 20% of Boeing's employees are Asian. Great right? Well only 2% of Boeing's management is Asian. The glass ceiling is alive and well, obscured by the relative economic success of the Asians at the lowest rung of the workforce. Third, the model minority stereotype creates unnecessary tension between different racial groups. During the LA riots, I believe more damage was caused to Korean American stores than Euro-American owned property because African Americans saw Koreans as "invading their turf" and getting government loans that aren't available to Blacks. Finally, because of the model minority stereotype, there is a perpetual push by society for Asians to take on careers like medicine, engineering, accounting etc. People assume that Asians are competent at these careers, and Asians find that they have the best career prospects in these fields because of the previous assumption. It's an endless cycle that ultimately will hurt Asian Americans and Americans in general. If we take a look back, both irish and italian immigrants who were viewed as "subhuman", "non-white" were able to overcome their impoverished status not just through economic success, but through political organization. How many Asian senators/representatives/governors do you know (excluding Hawaii which has a >50% Asian pop)?

 

[chaser08]

As I said, everybody has their battles. I appreciate your post, because I certainly never thought about those issues from that perspective. I have very close Asian friends (I have a very diverse group of friends and have lived all over the world) - mostly Chinese, Korean, and Filipino - and have never heard them make these complaints. I will have to make a point to have this type of discussion with them.

 

[Spidey10]

Come on man that's ridiculous. I don't have a problem with rogerwilco stating the truth, however, I do find it disconcerting that he harbors those prejudiced feelings in the first place. I'd prefer if someone judged me after they've gotten to know me, rather than using what they've seen on tv, heard from a friend, etc... to form their opinions of me.

He doesn't harbor those feelings. He said it was a knee-jerk response. I completely understand that because I have knee jerk responses to things I see as well, and most, if not all, of them come from the media or stereotypes.

I'm also East Indian and in medicine. I made the decision by myself, my parents had nothing to do with it. They were not overbearing, nor did they pressure me in any way. In fact, my dad wanted me to become an aeronautical engineer (I may still do it actually, if med doesn't work out 😀). I do not believe I'm part of the stereotype (but I may be perpetuating it) because the stereotype is that Indians/Asians are forced/pressured by their parents. Something I and many others were not.

 

[Spidey10]

1. Why not be colorblind? Being culturally blind, maybe not, but colorblind definitely. Color does not = culture.

2. The argument for white clubs is annoying. Like when people say, "why isn't there a white history month? or a WET (White Entertainment Television)?"
Answer is there are plenty. FOX, ABC, CBS etc. And there are plenty of white clubs. The GOP is one, NRA another.

So, you are voting for Obama then?

How's that for a stereotype my friend.

 

[Gospe1]

So, you are voting for Obama then?

How's that for a stereotype my friend.

I'm not a huge fan of either Obama or Hillary but I just have to make this plug of sorts. It's often said of Hillary that people either love her or think she's a bi%*$. Well, as my friend pointed out, if Hillary was a man, the bi*^& attitude would not be a problem. People would assume that he (in this case) is a strong candidate and believes in what he says. After my friend told me this, I did realize that I would not think of Hillary as such a bi*^% if she were a man, which is a total double standard on my part. So... theres that.

 

[DwyaneWade]

Hmm...I never heard the Indian stereotype that you guys are talking about (forced into medicine)- at least, as it specifically pertained to Indians. I guess I pretty much have that impression of any 1st Gen American student, since, on average, families seem to play more of a role in (our) lives and (our) parents are more limited in their definitions of success: doctor, lawyer, engineer, business. I am good friends with the Indians in my class, and none of them were forced into medicine.

FWIW, as a black female (1st Gen American, but not pressured into medicine), I would kill for these stereotypes, because, according to stereotypes, I'm either a nurse (in the hospital, even when standing next to my classmates) or a token who probably doesn't *really* deserve to be in med school. At least people assume you are competent. It's annoying to have to fight this on a daily basis, but everybody has their battles. Not trying to throw a pity party - just sayin'.

I think it is a terrific stereotype to have on your side. Like it or not, people see someone Indian in a white coat, a lot of them will knee-jerk and think "Indian doctor, nerdy, very smart" regardless of whether this is actually true (and it isn't in a lot of cases)

As for people being forced I wasn't implying that. A couple of people have had problems with motivation since they were forced in, but for the most part they (we?) are more influenced by our parents than forced. As I said, that is not necessarily a bad thing since most of them (I hope!) enjoy what they (we?) do and will be happy and successful members of the healthcare community

 

[flaahless]

I assume you are talking about the model minority stereotype. I think its natural to assume that this sort of "positive" stereotype is somehow desired. The real truth is that the model minority stereotype can be just as damaging to Asian Americans as negative stereotypes are to African Americans. For example, people assume that Asians make more money than whites. And yes, its true if you look at household income. However, what they don't tell you is that Asians have a substantially higher average number of people working in one household. If the statistics for income are revised to per capita, both male and female Asian Americans still make less than Euro Americans on average. Secondly, the model minority stereotype leads to inaction and false assumptions on part of the general population. For example, government assistance is often cut for Asian communities, even though there are serious needs in some of these areas. Politicians (and laymen) tend to assume that those Asians are doing alright and therefore need no help. The model minority stereotype also hides many inequities. For example, 20% of Boeing's employees are Asian. Great right? Well only 2% of Boeing's management is Asian. The glass ceiling is alive and well, obscured by the relative economic success of the Asians at the lowest rung of the workforce. Third, the model minority stereotype creates unnecessary tension between different racial groups. During the LA riots, I believe more damage was caused to Korean American stores than Euro-American owned property because African Americans saw Koreans as "invading their turf" and getting government loans that aren't available to Blacks. Finally, because of the model minority stereotype, there is a perpetual push by society for Asians to take on careers like medicine, engineering, accounting etc. People assume that Asians are competent at these careers, and Asians find that they have the best career prospects in these fields because of the previous assumption. It's an endless cycle that ultimately will hurt Asian Americans and Americans in general. If we take a look back, both irish and italian immigrants who were viewed as "subhuman", "non-white" were able to overcome their impoverished status not just through economic success, but through political organization. How many Asian senators/representatives/governors do you know (excluding Hawaii which has a >50% Asian pop)?

Not necessarily, a lot of it had to do with location. Fact is, there are more korean owned stores in the hood than there are caucasian owned stores. But other than that, nice post. 👍

 

[Lokhtar]

Do you know the biggest fight in my extended family? My cousin getting into a six year BS/MD program but choosing to go into History. His parents pretty much wanted to disown him at that point. Not only is there a push, there is a huge push into medicine by many Indian parents.

It is obviously ludicrous and I was the only one with about twenty people who was on his side when this was going on. I hope people on here are doing it because they want to, and not because their parents want to. I see their side of it too - they grew up in a different culture. Where they came from, the people with the highest scores did medicine. The next step did science and engineering. The next step did commerce and arts. There was no real 'choosing', and it is not something that many of them readily understand. They know how scarce opportunities were when they grew up, and they just want what is best for their child. But you as an individual has to decide life for yourself, and have to convince them that things are different here.

Half the kids in my family are pre-meds, and the other half are going to be when they reach college age. And maybe about 5% actually have real interest in it. It's not a choice, it's pretty much indoctrination.

 

[Timmythemic22]

It's irritating because I as well as others here want to be doctors because they decided to do it, and were not forced by their family. You've disrespected me as well as others. I'm living proof against that stupid stereotype. You're not Indian so you wouldn't understand our family/culture/values, so stop trying. I thought you wouldn't give into stereotypes, clearly I was wrong.

I don't remember being so hyper-sensitive when I was a premed.

Have things really fallen this far?

 

[nick_carraway]

I don't remember being so hyper-sensitive when I was a premed.

Have things really fallen this far?

It's an unintended consequence of trying to raise kids with the idea that they're special and unique and should be protected from all that is bad in the world.

There are stereotypes and that one, despite the model minority effect, isn't a bad one.

OMG let's all call the ACLU to protect us from discriminatory knee-jerk reactions.

People should get over themselves and their self-righteous indignation.

 

[Timmythemic22]

It's an unintended consequence of trying to raise kids with the idea that they're special and unique and should be protected from all that is bad in the world.

There are stereotypes and that one, despite the model minority effect, isn't a bad one.

OMG let's all call the ACLU to protect us from discriminatory knee-jerk reactions.

People should get over themselves and their self-righteous indignation.

Oh, medicine needs more people like you. I'm pullin' for ya!