Has been put on Probation or unfiarly terminated..Gather here

[gypsy16]

If you are a foreign resident who struggled to find your residency and afterward you faced harassment by your senior and then put on probation followed by unfair termination. Don't worry you are not alone. It has been a pattern now in residency programs in USA. write to me [email protected].

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[da8s0859q]

Just curious, OP: in how many of these cases do you think it's actually the resident's fault?

 

[axiomofchoice]

During my tenure i have seen several residents terminated/placed on probation. In every single case two things were true:

1)the resident was grossly incompetent (clinically/professionally), was given a plethora of chances and support for redemption, and was given options at multiple stages to transition without formal termination.

2) On the resident's part: complete lack of insight and failure to acknowledge (even on the most basic level) their shortcomings and reason for termination.

You make it sound like this is an emerging problem targeted at foreigners. 30 years ago, if an attending didn't like you for some reason - you would be asked into their office and told to pack your things.
If anything, nowadays it is very difficult to terminate a resident - there are countless hard stops in place to protect residents from the personal vendettas.
In my opinion, residents are way too protected from remediation and termination. Consequently, there are tons of incompetent docs graduating residency - released into society to terrorize the population they serve.

 

[gypsy16]

Please let me know what are the 100 steps that protect residents!!! Unless you talk about La la land


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[axiomofchoice]

every program has a GME department external to the program itself. The GME head can overrule any program director. So if you as a program director want to dismiss someone, you have to place that person on probation with documented cause. Subsequently there are meetings where corrective plans have to be defined. Those are reviewed by the GME. Then, over the next 6 months or so the corrective actions will be observed. etc etc etc

Now, if you're on probation and show up late to work, you can get fired. Guess what - if you work the cash register at Walmart, you'll get fired for that too. Why should it be any different for residents.

I live in the same world you do. The number of incompetent residents is astounding - I wish these residents would be held to a higher standard, and terminated if that standard isn't met.

 

[Perrotfish]

If anything, nowadays it is very difficult to terminate a resident - there are countless hard stops in place to protect residents from the personal vendettas.
.

It's not really hard to terminate a resident. You write down that you don't like them, then write it down again a few months later. The only hard stop is a remediation process that is evaluated subjectively by the same person who initiated it.

It is an emerging problem, in that it is an emerging problem that there are far fewer residency slots than applicants. A generation ago someone who failed out of a residency would almost certainly get a second and a even a third chance to succeed. Now failure is often career ending for US grads and is certainly career ending for an international grad.

Employers who know that they can end your professional life by firing you tend to get REALLY abusive, really quickly. This happened to graduate students and junior faculty in our university system a generation go, when the number of PhD candidate skyrocketed past the number of universitity professor jobs. We have all seen the horror show that that work environment has turned into. Now it's happening in IMG heavy programs. In another generation is will probably hit AMG heavy programs as well.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

When I was a resident, we fired about 1 person per year (which did seem high, admittedly) but the circumstances behind the 2 that I knew of absolutely earned it. One was a resident who kept going home during overnight calls. The other was a resident who had a just awful knowledge base AND would sleep through his pager while on call. Plus, I think a few patients complained about him saying in appropriate things.

I myself was put on probation (I'd rather not say what for), but I absolutely deserved it, kept on the straight and narrow after that, and graduated with no other problems - even got a resident award at graduation.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

When I was a resident, we fired about 1 person per year (which did seem high, admittedly) but the circumstances behind the 2 that I knew of absolutely earned it. One was a resident who kept going home during overnight calls. The other was a resident who had a just awful knowledge base AND would sleep through his pager while on call. Plus, I think a few patients complained about him saying in appropriate things.

I myself was put on probation (I'd rather not say what for), but I absolutely deserved it, kept on the straight and narrow after that, and graduated with no other problems - even got a resident award at graduation.

How could they think going home during call was ok?

 

[gutonc]

How could they think going home during call was ok?

I had a R2 resident who did that. And didn't answer his pages either.

He didn't get to be an R3.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I had a R2 resident who did that. And didn't answer his pages either.

He didn't get to be an R3.

Most I ever did was go get food when on call at the va... To think of going home just sounds ridiculous.

 

[bashwell]

Most I ever did was go get food when on call at the va... To think of going home just sounds ridiculous.

Oh sorry PD and fellow residents, I thought when you all said "residency" you meant "all inclusive resort with holiday spa and massage, come and go as you like," etc. My bad!

 

[Arcan57]

How could they think going home during call was ok?

Sometimes people want to quit but don't have the sand to end it themselves.

 

[Raryn]

Most I ever did was go get food when on call at the va... To think of going home just sounds ridiculous.

Can't say I never did that at our VA... when there was a second senior in house who I gave a heads up to in case someone coded. Anything else could wait 10 minutes for my burrito run to end.

As to the subject at hand: I know 5 classes of IM residents pretty well, my own and the two above/below me. Of those 5 classes, I know of one person who quit the class above me (decided they wanted to be a psychiatrist) and one person who got fired two classes below me. She not only was a weak intern (which is fine, we can train you to make you better) but had zero insight into her own weaknesses, to the point where it was potentially dangerous. They gave her multiple opportunities for remediation and then in the end didn't renew her contract. I don't think it was unfairly done, but what do I know?

 

[axiomofchoice]

Does anyone know a single resident who was terminated and actually insight to their shortcomings, or took any responsibility?

I don't

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

How could they think going home during call was ok?

It was actually kinda weird. The first time it happened the guy's apartment complex called and told him his smoke alarm was going off. He, with permission, rushed home to check on it. Turned out to be nothing, but instead of coming back to the hospital he just stayed home (this happened around midnight). He got a talking to about that but not terminated. Apparently the exact same thing happened the next call night. Now there was obviously some concern that he faked the call, but even ignoring that you can't just not come back without calling and saying something like "Hey, my apartment is actively on fire - I won't be back for a while".

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Does anyone know a single resident who was terminated and actually insight to their shortcomings, or took any responsibility?

I don't

That's why we all get accused of being heartless jerks who've forgotten what its like to be a resident whenever we are slightly dubious over every new thread that starts:

"Terminated without cause, what do I do now?"

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Most I ever did was go get food when on call at the va... To think of going home just sounds ridiculous.

When I was a med student, I absolutely jumped at being the food monkey. "Hmm, another HIV patient in the ED not taking his meds with infiltrate on x-ray and a CD4 count of 12 or going to pick up pizza for the team..."

 

[gypsy16]

During my tenure i have seen several residents terminated/placed on probation. In every single case two things were true:

1)the resident was grossly incompetent (clinically/professionally), was given a plethora of chances and support for redemption, and was given options at multiple stages to transition without formal termination.

2) On the resident's part: complete lack of insight and failure to acknowledge (even on the most basic level) their shortcomings and reason for termination.

You make it sound like this is an emerging problem targeted at foreigners. 30 years ago, if an attending didn't like you for some reason - you would be asked into their office and told to pack your things.
If anything, nowadays it is very difficult to terminate a resident - there are countless hard stops in place to protect residents from the personal vendettas.
In my opinion, residents are way too protected from remediation and termination. Consequently, there are tons of incompetent docs graduating residency - released into society to terrorize the population they serve.

1) I am doing survey on these cases specially when you have program decided to kick out any resident so first thing they start building a case against them to cover their conspiracy and accuse them by poor professional performance either or not this is true.. So far All the cases who sed to me their stories have a horrible experience and enough evidences tat they where accused wrongly by poor performance to justify their termination.

2) IMG are far from having poor knowledge simply because their scores are impressively higher than the Our graduates from our universities.

Thanks

 

[gypsy16]

Does anyone know a single resident who was terminated and actually insight to their shortcomings, or took any responsibility?

I don't

I know all IMGs who been terminated specially from high pay residencies,. Because they dont need to give IMGs residencies in high pay specialities.

 

[gypsy16]

Most I ever did was go get food when on call at the va... To think of going home just sounds ridiculous.

I agree...this guys who went home probably have personality problem

 

[evilbooyaa]

1) I am doing survey on these cases specially when you have program decided to kick out any resident so first thing they start building a case against them to cover their conspiracy and accuse them by poor professional performance either or not this is true.. So far All the cases who sed to me their stories have a horrible experience and enough evidences tat they where accused wrongly by poor performance to justify their termination.

2) IMG are far from having poor knowledge simply because their scores are impressively higher than the Our graduates from our universities.

Thanks

Something something about insight as to why a resident was dismissed, and how most of them who are dismissed don't have insight.

 

[BoardingDoc]

There have now been multiple comments about having a lack of insight, all of which have received responses that not only demonstrate a lack of insight, but also an apparent lack of understanding of what that word means.

 

[gutonc]

I know all IMGs who been terminated specially from high pay residencies,. Because they dont need to give IMGs residencies in high pay specialities.

You know all the IMGs who have been terminated from residencies?

What do you need us for?

Also, LOL at "high pay residencies".

 

[DokterMom]

1) I am doing survey on these cases specially when you have program decided to kick out any resident so first thing they start building a case against them to cover their conspiracy and accuse them by poor professional performance either or not this is true.. So far All the cases who sed to me their stories have a horrible experience and enough evidences tat they where accused wrongly by poor performance to justify their termination.

2) IMG are far from having poor knowledge simply because their scores are impressively higher than the Our graduates from our universities.

Thanks

The fact that the program begins building a case against a resident is not evidence of a conspiracy or indeed, of misconduct of any kind. It only illustrates that the program has recognized a problem that may ultimately result in termination or other corrective action. If they don't build a case, they are opening themselves up to legal action, so building a case is the only prudent course.

While the IMG STEP scores may be well above AMG averages for a given specialty, there are cultural differences at play which IMGs may not recognize. They're cultural differences, after all. Additionally, many international programs base MD admissions decisions overwhelmingly on high test scores, meaning a disproportionately higher share of low-people-skill applicants gain admission to foreign programs. Combine naturally low people skills with cultural differences, and you've got a recipe for trouble.

Residents are not let go for no reason at all; and they're not let go to keep them out of higher-paying specialties. (That's an absurd and offensive suggestion.) Residents are expensive (learning curve, administrative burden) and inconvenient to replace. Sometimes that reason may be that multiple people dislike you -- but unfortunately for those residents, that is a valid reason.

 

[Goro]

Having read quite a few of these threads through the years, the most common meme is that an OP states that they were fired without cause, and under probing, it comes out that there was more than enough cause.

I learned long ago from being a dad that there are always two sides to every story. And so have the other posters in this thread!

OP, look up the definition of the term "self-serving"..and ignore the ones about food.

Does anyone know a single resident who was terminated and actually insight to their shortcomings, or took any responsibility?
I don't

That's why we all get accused of being heartless jerks who've forgotten what its like to be a resident whenever we are slightly dubious over every new thread that starts:
"Terminated without cause, what do I do now?"

 

[thepoopologist]

I think from a political/interpersonal point of view, if you take two residents of approximately equal ability, one whom is favored, and one whom is not, I can see how the favored one's mistakes would be viewed as "not a big deal" and his/her's accomplishments highlighted, with the unfavored one's accomplishment's ignored and their mistakes highlighted. Competence, showing up on time, all the other basics aside, that's how it usually starts....

 

[QofQuimica]

Yeah, there's no doubt that being labeled as a "difficult" resident will get you fired if you're also unfortunate enough to be below your peers in competence, as opposed to the guy or gal who is equally incompetent but everyone likes them and wants to work with them to help them. It's human nature that faculty go to bat for residents they like personally more than residents whom they find difficult. IMGs are a special case, because they come from a different educational background and may not always have the easiest time adapting to the system here, which is less paternalistic than it is in some other countries. But they have to learn to function in they system they find themselves in.

The moral of the story for residents though, regardless of your nationality or training background, is to not be an a**hole. Seriously. First, be realistic about the situation you find yourself in. You are on a year-to-year contract with no other employment options outside of residency, and the rules do apply to you. So follow them religiously unless doing so would be illegal, immoral, or compromise patient lives. The examples that would fit into those categories will be extremely few and far between. Second, be polite/respectful when your superiors are correcting your deficiencies, even if THEY are being a**holes in how they correct you. If you're not sure what they want you to do differently, ask them for some examples. Make sure to show them that you are taking steps to correct whatever deficiencies they point out. Finally, study for your in-service. Yeah, it's a PITA, but you gotta pass it.

 

[deleted480308]

Yeah, there's no doubt that being labeled as a "difficult" resident will get you fired if you're also unfortunate enough to be below your peers in competence, as opposed to the guy or gal who is equally incompetent but everyone likes them and wants to work with them to help them. It's human nature that faculty go to bat for residents they like personally more than residents whom they find difficult. IMGs are a special case, because they come from a different educational background and may not always have the easiest time adapting to the system here, which is less paternalistic than it is in some other countries. But they have to learn to function in they system they find themselves in.

The moral of the story for residents though, regardless of your nationality or training background, is to not be an a**hole. Seriously. First, be realistic about the situation you find yourself in. You are on a year-to-year contract with no other employment options outside of residency, and the rules do apply to you. So follow them religiously unless doing so would be illegal, immoral, or compromise patient lives. The examples that would fit into those categories will be extremely few and far between. Second, be polite/respectful when your superiors are correcting your deficiencies, even if THEY are being a**holes in how they correct you. If you're not sure what they want you to do differently, ask them for some examples. Make sure to show them that you are taking steps to correct whatever deficiencies they point out. Finally, study for your in-service. Yeah, it's a PITA, but you gotta pass it.

they can always hurt you more..... someone over in EM once did a really great post on the concept called "bow your head" or something like that. might have been birdstrike ....nope @jetproppilot

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/bow-your-head.548150/

and not EM, anesthesia....same principle applies

 

[QofQuimica]

they can always hurt you more..... someone over in EM once did a really great post on the concept called "bow your head" or something like that. might have been birdstrike ....nope @jetproppilot

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/bow-your-head.548150/

and not EM, anesthesia....same principle applies

Yeah, that was jet. And he's correct. Being a resident is definitely a very unequal situation in terms of the power differential. It's wise for those of you who are still trainees to remember that you need them way more than they need you whenever you find yourself tempted to act out without very good reason, because your MD/DO is essentially useless without that residency completion certificate. And yes, they can and will fill your spot with another body if you become more trouble than you're worth. The BS doesn't totally go away for attendings either, but it's not nearly as one-sided of a deal where your employer holds all the cards and you essentially hold none.

 

[atomi]

I disagree with the notion that residents are too hard to fire. Residency is not the same as being a cashier at Wal Mart as previously suggested. Cashiers don't have a decade of training and expensive financial commitments. If a cashier gets fired he can get another job instantly. If a resident gets fired, there is a very real possibility he will never practice medicine and face financial ruin. For this reason, residents need some protection against non renewal for all but the most egregious reasons. If an accredited medical school in the us graduated you, they are certifying with their good name that you are trainable. When you are non-renewed the program is saying that you are 100% untrainable. From the few cases I am aware of this is usually not true. From what I've seen someone in a program personally doesn't like a resident and decides that person will be gone. From that point it's simply a matter of putting him on probabtion and then finding literally any small mistake during that period to not renew the contract. It's extremely easy. No, you should not lose your entire career because you showed up 15 minutes late once or forgot to sign a progress note once.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I disagree with the notion that residents are too hard to fire. Residency is not the same as being a cashier at Wal Mart as previously suggested. Cashiers don't have a decade of training and expensive financial commitments. If a cashier gets fired he can get another job instantly. If a resident gets fired, there is a very real possibility he will never practice medicine and face financial ruin. For this reason, residents need some protection against non renewal for all but the most egregious reasons. If an accredited medical school in the us graduated you, they are certifying with their good name that you are trainable. When you are non-renewed the program is saying that you are 100% untrainable. From the few cases I am aware of this is usually not true. From what I've seen someone in a program personally doesn't like a resident and decides that person will be gone. From that point it's simply a matter of putting him on probabtion and then finding literally any small mistake during that period to not renew the contract. It's extremely easy. No, you should not lose your entire career because you showed up 15 minutes late once or forgot to sign a progress note once.

No one gets fired for being late once or not signing a single note.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I disagree with the notion that residents are too hard to fire. Residency is not the same as being a cashier at Wal Mart as previously suggested. Cashiers don't have a decade of training and expensive financial commitments. If a cashier gets fired he can get another job instantly. If a resident gets fired, there is a very real possibility he will never practice medicine and face financial ruin. For this reason, residents need some protection against non renewal for all but the most egregious reasons. If an accredited medical school in the us graduated you, they are certifying with their good name that you are trainable. When you are non-renewed the program is saying that you are 100% untrainable. From the few cases I am aware of this is usually not true. From what I've seen someone in a program personally doesn't like a resident and decides that person will be gone. From that point it's simply a matter of putting him on probabtion and then finding literally any small mistake during that period to not renew the contract. It's extremely easy. No, you should not lose your entire career because you showed up 15 minutes late once or forgot to sign a progress note once.

I'm going to disagree, somewhat, with this.

First of all, I have heard 100's of stories of people working at WalMart or similar, being fired, and having their lives unravel. They live paycheck to paycheck, and missing a single paycheck --> rent / car payment missed --> Homeless / transport problems --> chronic joblessness. So, in fact, a fired medical resident probably has more resilience than someone at WalMart.

Next, the fact that some medical students have lots of debt is not really my problem. I care very much about my residents and I work hard to ensure they get good training and get treated well. But if I do have to let one of them go, which happens infrequently, their financial situation isn't my responsibility. In most cases I do try to negotiate with GME to pay the resident for an extra month with benefits -- I'm not cold hearted. But I won't keep someone on because of debt, or perhaps more importantly I won't fire someone who has no debt because "well, it doesn't matter".

Perhaps most importantly, just because you graduated from a US medical school doesn't mean that you've been "guaranteed" to be trainable. In many cases, when we have a resident with problems we discover that similar problems occurred in school, and were either "glossed over" or the school "remediated" the problems and thought they were "fixed enough". In fact, if you graduate from my program I am putting my good name behind you, and I am unwilling to do that unless I am comfortable recommending you for your next position. If you don't meet my standards, then you do not graduate from my program.

I do agree that there is a power imbalance that can be abused by programs. I expect there are some programs that are malignant, where the program administration can get rid of anyone they want. That said, I also think it's likely that many people whom are terminated for "interprofessional" issues blame their programs for being malignant, when in fact the problem is that they can't get along with peers / nursing / students. They think that as long as they "prescribe the right treatment", they are a good doctor. Gregory House, from that TV show, is a great example. He's super smart. Always seems to make the right diagnosis. (Except when the show is really wrong). Yet, if he was a resident in my program, he would be fired for his performance.

 

[npappasan]

I'm going to disagree, somewhat, with this.

First of all, I have heard 100's of stories of people working at WalMart or similar, being fired, and having their lives unravel. They live paycheck to paycheck, and missing a single paycheck --> rent / car payment missed --> Homeless / transport problems --> chronic joblessness. So, in fact, a fired medical resident probably has more resilience than someone at WalMart.

Next, the fact that some medical students have lots of debt is not really my problem. I care very much about my residents and I work hard to ensure they get good training and get treated well. But if I do have to let one of them go, which happens infrequently, their financial situation isn't my responsibility. In most cases I do try to negotiate with GME to pay the resident for an extra month with benefits -- I'm not cold hearted. But I won't keep someone on because of debt, or perhaps more importantly I won't fire someone who has no debt because "well, it doesn't matter".

Perhaps most importantly, just because you graduated from a US medical school doesn't mean that you've been "guaranteed" to be trainable. In many cases, when we have a resident with problems we discover that similar problems occurred in school, and were either "glossed over" or the school "remediated" the problems and thought they were "fixed enough". In fact, if you graduate from my program I am putting my good name behind you, and I am unwilling to do that unless I am comfortable recommending you for your next position. If you don't meet my standards, then you do not graduate from my program.

I do agree that there is a power imbalance that can be abused by programs. I expect there are some programs that are malignant, where the program administration can get rid of anyone they want. That said, I also think it's likely that many people whom are terminated for "interprofessional" issues blame their programs for being malignant, when in fact the problem is that they can't get along with peers / nursing / students. They think that as long as they "prescribe the right treatment", they are a good doctor. Gregory House, from that TV show, is a great example. He's super smart. Always seems to make the right diagnosis. (Except when the show is really wrong). Yet, if he was a resident in my program, he would be fired for his performance.

This. A resident getting fired is almost invariably due to a personality issue. Sometimes this manifests as disruptive behavior, sometimes as clinical deficiencies, and sometimes as both. As a general rule, people don't fire people they like.

 

[gypsy16]

I think from a political/interpersonal point of view, if you take two residents of approximately equal ability, one whom is favored, and one whom is not, I can see how the favored one's mistakes would be viewed as "not a big deal" and his/her's accomplishments highlighted, with the unfavored one's accomplishment's ignored and their mistakes highlighted. Competence, showing up on time, all the other basics aside, that's how it usually starts....

You comments has summarized what all IMGs are suffering from in this dam american system.

 

[gutonc]

You comments has summarized what all IMGs are suffering from in this dam american system.

You are more than welcome to go back to wherever home is and have a go of it in medicine there. You are also welcome to stay here and try.

Don't blame the "system" for your failure.

 

[rokshana]

You comments has summarized what all IMGs are suffering from in this dam american system.

you know, if this "damn" American system is so intolerable, you are welcome to not participate in it...there are probably 20 others who are willing to take your spot...

 

[Bonferroni Correction]

you know, if this "damn" American system is so intolerable, you are welcome to not participate in it...there are probably 20 others who are willing to take your spot...

There's never a good reason to be unkind. As an AMG, i am frequently amazed at how much more arduous the path is for many IMGs. Whether American-born or not, it's a tough road. They willingly enter a system stacked against them, often knowing there is a decent chance their labor will not lead to a payoff. It's noble. And I prefer to not kick anyone while they are down.

Gypsy- I'm not sure what your situation is but my best advice is, regardless of your actual or perceived performance, to be open to all criticism, show a desire to be introspective to find ways to improve. Even if you are correct and have done no wrong...being defensive never helps. Good luck

 

[n618ft]

I've not been in this situation but my buddy has. If you're just on probation, your best bet is to go to your PD's office and set out a concrete and measurable plan on how you can fix any shortcomings that are perceived. You can disagree with them but you need to come up with a plan of action that is clear for addressing this - whatever their concerns may be.

 

[rokshana]

There's never a good reason to be unkind. As an AMG, i am frequently amazed at how much more arduous the path is for many IMGs. Whether American-born or not, it's a tough road. They willingly enter a system stacked against them, often knowing there is a decent chance their labor will not lead to a payoff. It's noble. And I prefer to not kick anyone while they are down.

Gypsy- I'm not sure what your situation is but my best advice is, regardless of your actual or perceived performance, to be open to all criticism, show a desire to be introspective to find ways to improve. Even if you are correct and have done no wrong...being defensive never helps. Good luck

as an IMG (and Caribbean at that), I know how difficult that path is and know that your ability to succeed is in your own hands...no one is out to get you and they don't make it more difficult for you just because you are an I/FMG...yes those that are coming from outside the US do have more of a culture shock to both the US as well as US healthcare, but I've also seen a share for FMGs succeed (to the point of becoming chief and attaining competitive fellowships)...why? because they are likable, humble, eager to learn, and willing to work with their co-interns and residents...

i'm not being unkind...i'm being realistic...foreign grads are not forced to be here for training...they can train in their own country, esp those that went to prestigious domiciled medical schools...and if you haven't noticed, there are plenty of I/FMGs that post here that would jump at the chance to be in a residency...any residency...

interesting that gutonc posted essentially the same sentiment(what i get for posting before reading all the other posts), but you didn't decide to chide him...

 

[axiomofchoice]

I want to reiterate - since my "walmart cashier" comparison was questioned earlier.

From an employer's perspective (residency program/director) you are no more than that - an employee.

Your training/qualifications should have no bearing on decisions regarding your further employment.

Thinking that because you invested a lot of time/money/training in your education should shield you from termination is simply a sense of entitlement.

When you compare yourself to society at large its easy to think your something special because you have an MD behind your name. But you must really view yourself in the context of your surroundings - you are the lowest level employee of your organization - i.e. you have achieved the least. The basic rules of employment apply to you: show up on time, do your work, don't make your company look bad etc. If you fail to comply- you get fired

This applies to AMG/IMG/FMG and every other kind of MG

 

[Goro]

Could you kindly show us the gun that was placed to your head that made you come to the US?

Word of advice: Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, will piss off an American more than a non-citizen criticizing this country. You being here is a gift, not a right.

You made your bed, now lie in it.

You comments has summarized what all IMGs are suffering from in this dam american system.

 

[gypsy16]

NOT SURPERISING TO WATCH ALLLLL THE RACIST COMMENTS HERE

 

[gypsy16]

This. A resident getting fired is almost invariably due to a personality issue. Sometimes this manifests as disruptive behavior, sometimes as clinical deficiencies, and sometimes as both. As a general rule, people don't fire people they like.

Dr npappasan, You are totally right. We are not asking for special treatment for bad performing resident. I am talking here about unfair terminations that happens to the IMGs. I am not defending bad performing residents at all. problematic resident have to go. But I am talking about how to ensure that the termination process were fair?! if the program decided to terminate resident by put him/her on probation, how to ensure there is a neutral fair committee who should be on the fair position to review the process and decide if the program is fair or terminating this resident for retaliation of any reason ... ACGME policy said resident have to have another committee from outside the program and not the same institution (human resources) to review the termination and listen again to the resident. I dont see this happening in any of the stories ? what the resident should do in this situation?

 

[gypsy16]

There's never a good reason to be unkind. As an AMG, i am frequently amazed at how much more arduous the path is for many IMGs. Whether American-born or not, it's a tough road. They willingly enter a system stacked against them, often knowing there is a decent chance their labor will not lead to a payoff. It's noble. And I prefer to not kick anyone while they are down.

Gypsy- I'm not sure what your situation is but my best advice is, regardless of your actual or perceived performance, to be open to all criticism, show a desire to be introspective to find ways to improve. Even if you are correct and have done no wrong...being defensive never helps. Good luck

I appreciate the advise.. We collect the stories to raise them up to the ACGME for revision. We ave several stories sent to me all of which no fairness in the process.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

NOT SURPERISING TO WATCH ALLLLL THE RACIST COMMENTS HERE

What race is being commented on?

 

[DrBowtie]

I appreciate the advise.. We collect the stories to raise them up to the ACGME for revision. We ave several stories sent to me all of which no fairness in the process.

Do you provide the program's side of the story to the ACGME as well?

 

[gutonc]

NOT SURPERISING TO WATCH ALLLLL THE RACIST COMMENTS HERE

I actually don't see a single racist comment in this thread.

 

[sammiesings]

Dr npappasan, You are totally right. We are not asking for special treatment for bad performing resident. I am talking here about unfair terminations that happens to the IMGs. I am not defending bad performing residents at all. problematic resident have to go. But I am talking about how to ensure that the termination process were fair?! if the program decided to terminate resident by put him/her on probation, how to ensure there is a neutral fair committee who should be on the fair position to review the process and decide if the program is fair or terminating this resident for retaliation of any reason ... ACGME policy said resident have to have another committee from outside the program and not the same institution (human resources) to review the termination and listen again to the resident. I dont see this happening in any of the stories ? what the resident should do in this situation?

You haven't actually displayed a single instance of unfair treatment as you say. It seems like you just want to believe it's unfair because it happened to you. I also don't see why you refuse to acknowledge your role in this. To you, PDs have all been racist and mean. I think you sound a little nuts, to be honest.

 

[JamaicanHerb]

What race is being commented on?

The foreign race

 

[rokshana]

NOT SURPERISING TO WATCH ALLLLL THE RACIST COMMENTS HERE

SMH...what next? that we are all Hitlers too?

dude, you have lost the little credibility that you may have had here...when you said goodbye, you should have stuck with that (knew you wouldn't, but still you could have surprised me).