Hated third year

Discussion in 'Clinical Rotations' started by MrSunny1, Apr 21, 2017.

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  1. Carbocation1

    Carbocation1 2+ Year Member

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    So what are you guys all going into - gas/rads? They are the best fields imo - intellectually stimulating, good pay/lifestyle, minimal pt interaction
     
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  3. iBS1972

    iBS1972

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    I had an attending in third year peds who literally/explicitly told me that med students are not helpful and just make things take twice as long. Those words devmotivated for quite sometime afterwards. I only worked with her once or twice, and I did like her as she wasn't mean. Maybe that's why it disappointed me so much-if she had been a jerk I could have dusted myself off and just say that she was being mean-spirited. And also, to be told that in peds (where everyone's all bubbly and y're not supposed to get hurt) was probably another factor.
     
  4. Domperidone

    Domperidone Everybody have a logical time Bronze Donor

    Have a read of this thread too (that just started) in the EM forum Did you get happier once you got into residency?, where several EM attendings and residents are responding.

    It gets better, just hang on.
    all the negative experiences, they make you stronger and they're relevant learning points on what not to do later.
     
  5. ortnakas

    ortnakas OMS-IV 2+ Year Member

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    I mean, depending on the scenario, she's not wrong. I always did my best to be helpful third year (so weird that's past tense) but sometimes, especially in outpatient offices, there wasn't anything I could do to make my presence more efficient, and the few minutes of teaching time attendings gave me for each patient adds up over the course of the day. Twelve patients in a morning x 5 minutes per patient = an hour they spend teaching instead of documenting, making calls, or getting other work done. I had one attending who said that he liked having students around and teaching, but has to limit it to a few days a week because we slow his clinic down too much otherwise; even if you do a great job with your H&P, they typically have to then listen to you present it and then go do the same exact thing, which is a time-suck.

    Be positive, be as helpful as you can be, and when you can't be helpful, at least be pleasant. (General advice, not directed at the person I quoted or OP).
     
    Domperidone likes this.
  6. iBS1972

    iBS1972

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    I knew that we weren't too helpful, but just actually hearing it kind of sucked.
    Wow, I didn't actually do the math, thanks for the perspective.
     
  7. Domperidone

    Domperidone Everybody have a logical time Bronze Donor

    Lol yea, reminds me of one of the rules in House of God.
    "SHOW ME A BMS (Best Medical Student, a student at the Best Medical School) WHO ONLY TRIPLES MY WORK AND I WILL KISS HIS FEET".

    It's definitely rocky to experience being told or made to feel that you're increasing the work load as a 3rd year. Even if true.

    I think I try my best now to make sure the really new to rotations don't feel like they are slowing the team down (even though they are most of the time - but everyone has to start somewhere). I still remember, painfully too, the similar experiences of been stepped on like that. It'll make you a better resident in a couple of short years, look at it that way. If you choose to remember and do something about it later. It sort of exorcises the demons too.

    It sucks in general, but a lot of people in the workplace are going to say things they probably shouldn't to you whether as a student or a resident. one thing I didn't appreciate in the clinical years, is that all those things, helped in learning how to take it all in stride by the time i graduated into the workforce. it also made me think about how I sound to those around me.
     
  8. ActinicKeratosis

    ActinicKeratosis

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    The worst thing about third year is the lack of learning. It drove me nuts to pay 50K to be on rotations to have an attending hand you an article that they would expect you to read. Then if you didn't read it and they asked you questions about it they would get all mad because you are wasting their time trying to teach you. Hello! That is why I'm paying tuition! For you to teach me. I can read an article on my own for free. I can't wait to be a resident and finally be getting paid.
     
  9. evilbooyaa

    evilbooyaa 5+ Year Member

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    Is this serious? Attending gave you an article to read, you didn't read it, and now you're mad because they are not spoon feeding the information to you themselves?

    Especially if you're going into dermatology (as your username suggests as a possibility), you will have to do so. much. reading on a regular basis. It's not unreasonable that somebody expect you to be able to read an article and be able to discuss it intelligently when it is given to you.

    Your attending DID teach you, by showing you what article they wanted you to read. For you to not put any effort into that process yourself and then blame the attending.

    If you came and said, that's ALL they did, and otherwise I sat in a room and didn't see patients or see how attending interacted with anybody, etc. then fine, that's a valid complaint.
     
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  10. ActinicKeratosis

    ActinicKeratosis

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    Most attendings that I have worked with have been wonderful teachers. However I've had a few that simply weren't good at teaching. When someone gives you an article to read and then pimps you on what was in the article with very little additional teaching involved I believe that shows laziness on the part of the teacher. That is not teaching that is simply pimping.
     
  11. Anicetus

    Anicetus 2+ Year Member

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    Maybe they would've gotten to the teaching part behind the article had you answered all of the pimp questions correctly. These situations usually result in a discussion about the article post-counterpimping. It's like a small group that assigns you an article to read before the group meeting so you can all discuss it.
     
  12. ActinicKeratosis

    ActinicKeratosis

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    You may be right. I guess I'll never know if the post-pimping teaching would have happened because I didn't get the answers right :/
     
    Giovanotto likes this.
  13. iBS1972

    iBS1972

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    Btw, I don't know about all docs, but from the few times that this was brought up (from discussion about tuition and where it goes to), the attendings said that none of that tuition money goes to their paychecks. Which is not hard to believe now because I read from another thread that "all" (I put in quotes because that's what was said in the post, but I feel like it's not completely generalizable because don't physicians who work in hospitals get a base-salary) of their paycheck is from billing/reimbursements. Perhaps an attending/resident can further clarify on this.
     
  14. ThreeCheers

    ThreeCheers

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    My last week of third year starts tomorrow. I don't think I'm going to make it
     
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  15. Bobcat18

    Bobcat18 2+ Year Member

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    Same here! Good luck and keep your eyes on the prize (>January when interviews end-> vacation starts ;)). Good luck, my friend.


     
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  16. JibsGuy52

    JibsGuy52 2+ Year Member

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    As a medical student who starts in July, I wish I never stumbled across this thread.
     
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  17. Amygdarya

    Amygdarya 7+ Year Member

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    It's gonna be alright. The experience you get on the wards depends on your attitude and luck. While you can't control the latter, you can sure do something about the former ;) Good luck!
     
  18. Kuratz

    Kuratz 5+ Year Member

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    Third year has sucked so far. Going further into debt to show up at 5am to do some b.s. work that does not actually help anyone, looking like a dumbass on rounds daily, studying after work and on weekends and feigning interest in specialties that you have zero chance of pursuing sucks. All the meanwhile friends are moving right along in their careers, buying houses and having full evenings/weekends really makes you question choice to continue. It is a necessary part of the process but hopefully this pays off eventually...
     
  19. bluemagik5

    bluemagik5 2+ Year Member

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    I have to agree with Kuratz. I would say *uck 3rd year. It was honestly the biggest waste of time and money. I would take the opportunity to learn on my own and trade stocks when I could while at the hospital.
     
  20. Shov

    Shov Jokester 5+ Year Member

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    We've got med students on our service that have been super super helpful. Some of that BS work really makes your residents lives a little more tolerable.
     
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  21. Uafl112

    Uafl112 2+ Year Member

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    Im new to this thread. Just started IM last week and I'm getting chewed out by my physician as he reads my assessment and plans. I thought I would be decent at this given my step 1 score, but apparently I'm pretty bad (his words). Making me reconsider IM as a residency. Anyone else feel like that?
     
  22. YellowTurtle

    YellowTurtle

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    Welcome, young padawan, to the third year suck.
     
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  23. Uafl112

    Uafl112 2+ Year Member

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    yea bro I don't see it getting any better. It just feels like theres always gonna be something I don't know and I'm gonna get **** on for it.
     
  24. siliso

    siliso 7+ Year Member

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    It all keeps getting better as you narrow down on what you want to do. I wouldn't want to be a third year, or an intern, again either. But life is good. It's different when you want to know what you don't know so you can do better.
     
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  25. WhiteCoatWonder

    WhiteCoatWonder doin' it for the culture 7+ Year Member

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    This is super awesome advice. When I started off third year, I had a bit of an advantage, having worked in the hospital environment before but I still hated all the M3 rigamarole. To mitigate said rigamarole, I started learning how to stay visible but out of the way and well read. Figure out the team flow and play the game.

    Also, legit using your patients conditions to study/brush up on pathophys/treatment is the best way to add something useful to team discussions/plans. There is a looot of BS during third year, but there is also a lot of opportunity for self directed learning..aka preppin' for pimpin'.
     
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  26. W19

    W19 SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor 2+ Year Member

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    Welcome to 3rd year! 4th year will much better where most people who are not going to derm or surgical subspecialties don't give a sh!t....

    Take @WhiteCoatWonder 's advice if you want to have a smooth 3rd year!
     
  27. TypeADissection

    TypeADissection

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    I wouldn't worry too much about it. It all comes with time and exposure. Like a lot of things, I wouldn't put too much weight on any decision in regards to career choices based upon one rotation or attending, whether good or bad. This is a good time to see through all the exterior stuff about each field and see if you can live with the daily grind of whatever it is that interests you. Keep working at it and eventually you'll probably end up where you're supposed to.
     
  28. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    Med students,

    Did you not know what you were getting into when you signed up for this ride?

    You have what people have literally been fighting for their entire life. You have people on the outside looking in so desperate to be in your position, that they are literally throwing upwards of 50K/year of borrowed money with interest at an SMP to just have a CHANCE to get into medical school, and your complaining because nurses are mean to you or a big bad attending degraded you in front of others? The world isn't sunshines and rainbows like undergrad. I wish I was in your position.
     
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  29. Logic Inc

    Logic Inc

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    gotta play the game until you become an attending physician (but then you'll play another game with hospital admins)
     
  30. doyouhaveaflag

    doyouhaveaflag No flag, no country 2+ Year Member

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    Sorry it hasn't worked out for you yet!

    And no, I don't think it's really possible to know what you're signing up for in advance. No amount of pre-med shadowing or being told about the experience really shows you how it will be.

    That said, it is possible to feel both extremely privileged to have made it to med school and be happy about what you're doing AND have things about it that you don't like and want to b**ch about. I think b**ching about things can be very cathartic. And what better place to do it than with a bunch of random strangers on the internet?

    (Sometimes we post about the good stuff too: What's the coolest thing you've done so far?)
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
    W19 likes this.
  31. evilbooyaa

    evilbooyaa 5+ Year Member

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    Oh god not this pre-med nonsense. Medicine is not all rainbows and unicorns. Infact, it's mostly the exact opposite. People bitch about things in every field, even as professional sports athletes. Should there be no complaining allowed, ever, if there's a person in the world who wants your job?

    Sorry about the rant, I just hate that somebody can go, "But at least you're in medical school!" Like it's the right answer to literally every single possible complaint throughout medical school.
     
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  32. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    It is the right answer. Medical students are getting the keys to the human body, finding out the secrets of medicine. Being in medical school is an honor I'm not sure most people are ready for. You learn the how and why of the body, secrets our ancestors tried to comprehend and would do literal dances for in attempt to speed up the healing process.

    The sky is literally the limit for you, and yet you are complaining that some hen nurse is ordering you around? Suck it up buttercup. Do you know the hopes and dreams that lay dead at the door scratching and clawing to get in to the gates of ANY medical school (at least in the US?). To use that knowlage gained in school to inspire humanity would be humbling.

    I am risking the rest of my financial and adult life on a post bacc program, giving up an acceptance to anouther professional school, just to have an attempt and shot at the career I've envisioned myself in since before I could add and subtract. You know what my answer to people degrading me in front of an attending will be? "Please sir, may I have some more"



     
  33. Hakuna Matata

    Hakuna Matata 2+ Year Member

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    It's highly dependent on the school and student. I had an awesome 3rd year. Great rotations, great experiences. Sure there were a few attendings who were assholes, but you have those in literally very career out there. It's the first time that you're finally away from the books and are delivering babies and suturing up lacs. I'd take that over staring at books any day. Don't get ahead of yourself and worried about 3rd year. Sounds like it sucked for some people here, but the majority of people I know had a great experience 3rd and 4th year overall.


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
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  34. JibsGuy52

    JibsGuy52 2+ Year Member

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    Just days before I start medical school, thank you so much!!!
     
  35. doyouhaveaflag

    doyouhaveaflag No flag, no country 2+ Year Member

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    Agreed. If I had to (heaven forbid) pick a year to repeat in med school, I'd do third year again. Granted, I haven't done fourth year yet.

    Sure, there were parts that sucked (subjectivity of evals in particular). But on the whole, I saw and did really cool stuff and learned a lot. I was really fortunate in that I was never on the receiving end of attending or resident a$sholery though.
     
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  36. evilbooyaa

    evilbooyaa 5+ Year Member

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    Second half of fourth year I would repeat over and over again if I had to.

    [​IMG]
     
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  37. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    Hey, could be worse. You could be at a podiatry school


     
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  38. Brorthopedic

    Brorthopedic

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    lol shut up
     
  39. FindMeOnTheLinks

    FindMeOnTheLinks 2+ Year Member

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    We were all starry-eyed premeds at one point as well. Best not to put down others' experiences if you haven't lived them yourself. It is difficult to understand if you haven't gone through the process.

    Good luck
     
  40. hellobigcat

    hellobigcat

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    I start school in a few weeks. I experienced some clinical rotations as an EMT student, but my qualifications were limited to taking vitals and other minor things. Even then, I felt kind of useless, especially when the nurses were frustrated when I didn't know how do certain procedures (start an IV for example. But we were never trained to do so, and I wasn't about do something not within my qualifications). When I shadowed, things were slightly better, although the surgeon I shadowed did grill me on anatomy questions lol. I've heard stories of rough experiences with residents and attendings, but I just thought they were rare experiences. This thread makes me think otherwise :/

    Hopefully all goes well.
     
  41. augeremt

    augeremt 5+ Year Member

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    Don't let this thread take away from your enthusiasm! Med students looooooove to complain so take that with a grain of salt. Even in an ideal world, we'll find something to be dissatisfied with. We also don't talk as much about the good things, so there's a bias towards misery in these threads.

    Overall, it's not all bad and we get to do some pretty cool stuff that we'll never do again after M3. You have to deal with a lot of BS to get to do the cool stuff, but sometimes it's worth it.

    Also, different people deal with the BS of M3 in different ways. The things that annoy the crap out of me in life (and in people) were magnified during the clinical years, so that's why last year was so frustrating for me. Other people are annoyed by completely different things and have no problem during M3 but struggle during other parts of our medical education...or are the few that don't struggle at all (lucky bastards!). Hopefully you're one of the latter.

    Try to focus on the positives when you're feeling down. There are plenty of them and sometimes we lose track of the good stuff when we're in the trenches. Good luck!
     
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  42. mcat_taker

    mcat_taker 2+ Year Member

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    Dude. Shut up. Everyone, no matter WHAT career, has valid reasons to complain about stuff. We look up to professional athletes and think they have the best life ever getting paid millions to play a game. However, even pro athletes complain: about teammates not working hard, coaches they don't get along with, fans that heckle them when they play poorly, getting traded all of a sudden to random cities and having to uproot their families. Everyone thinks they have it good but don't see all the behind the scenes work they put in day and day out, injuries they play through and suffer from, etc. Investment bankers complain, lawyers complain, doctors complain. Everyone complains about some aspect of their career/work.

    Med students also have complaints- bs exams, poor teaching, bad rotations, missing parties, weddings, birthdays, studying non stop, worrying about failing exams, trying to remember so much stuff. It is high stress and people DO get burned out. We all signed up for this but that doesn't mean its all sunshine and rainbows all the time.

    It is very patronizing to hear you sit here as a premed telling us to just suck it up when you haven't experienced this grind.
     
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  43. IslandStyle808

    IslandStyle808 Akuma residency or bust! 2+ Year Member

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    It stems from the fact that he has a chip on his shoulder as a pod student that couldn't make it into a MD or DO school. He himself will face the same problems in his 3rd year and of course you can guess where he is going to come to vent...

    EDIT: then again, their 3rd year doesn't seem as stressful from the responses of pod students on this forum...
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017 at 6:20 AM
  44. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    Let me guess, you are one of those 20 something year olds who never held a job in retail or fast food/food service. Try working in those types of places, you'll thank your lucky stars you have some head resident chewing you out, at least there is light at the end of the tunnel for medical students.

     
  45. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    No, most pods Ive met with who get past the who "didn't get into med school" thing are generally really happy with where they are. That's something that I noticed on my interviews at both med school and pod school, the pod students seemed much more relaxed and content with where they were, the med students all seemed on edge, like they have this heavy burden just weighing them down.

    I don't think pod students have shelf exams 3rd and 4th year, and the pod boards are pass fail because they already know what they are matching into (they are still graded clinically however). So maybe thats it.

    Also, most pod students are older than the average med student, so maybe that plays a factor in it as well, pod students have had to work in jobs before school that were not rainbows and sunshines like retail and food service (no, working in a genetics lab during undergrad does not count as real work)

     
  46. SouthernSurgeon

    SouthernSurgeon Lifetime Donor 7+ Year Member

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    It's too bad you haven't gotten to that point then.
     
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  47. IslandStyle808

    IslandStyle808 Akuma residency or bust! 2+ Year Member

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    So your saying you never vented about anything whether it was that retail job (yes I knew people who said this can suck at times) or that annoying professor who likes to make the lives of students miserable? We all need an outlet for our frustrations and its a normal thing.

    PS: I worked at the grad level as a TA. I had one program director who was a pile of s*** and had once in a while fired people who didn't agree with him, a very thin skin type. It can be a high stress situation considering that job paid your tuition and your living expenses, you can't simply walk away from it. You have no control or power as a graduate student either. It was nice to go with a friend to a local bar, have a drink, and vent little bit.
     
  48. QualityProcess

    QualityProcess indolent inutile intern 5+ Year Member

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    One month into intern year now and it is so much better than 3rd year. And I started (after a week of outpatient clinic) with MICU q3 24hr call.
     
  49. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    The people complaining about 3rd year usually haven't had to work in the real world, to hold down a job, to be screamed at by customers when you haven't put enough mustard on their sandwiches. The people in medical school literally have the power to change and challenge healthcare around them, and they complain because some head nurse hen chewed them out?

    Sorry, no sympathy. Not an ounce. People knew what they were signing up for and considering how precious seats are, its ridiculous that people complain about medical school. Nobody wants to be around someone who complains anyway.

    Its almost like complaining about being able to drive. For years people had to walk to places and risk literal life just to grab a pale of water. Now you have this machine that takes you speeds that were 200 years ago unimaginable, and you are complaining about having to drive in traffic? It boggles my mind.

     
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  50. augeremt

    augeremt 5+ Year Member

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    Three things:

    1) We're not looking for sympathy. We're venting about a crappy part of our education that unites us all, regardless of what school we attend. It's cathartic to talk to the only people who actually understand how much M3 sucks.

    2) Just because we hate third year, doesn't mean we're not happy to be on the medical track. Med school is a means to an end and sometimes the means sucks.

    3) You do realize you're complaining about us complaining, right?
     
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  51. mcat_taker

    mcat_taker 2+ Year Member

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    It's getting harder to pull the 20 something card with no previous work experience. I'm a non trad. Average age of med school matriculants keeps climbing higher. Last year as an M1, a 24 year old would be considered young for my class. The average at my school was probably 26 with plenty in their high 20s early 30s. The oldest was 37. Lots of people had interesting prior careers or dead end jobs beforehand.
     
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