Having serious doubts about being in med school

[jv1983]

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Hi everyone - not sure if this will turn out to be a "request for advice" or "just listen to me vent" post, but in either case, thanks in advance for reading.

I'm in my first year, and am really starting to question if this is for me.
All my life, this is what I thought I wanted, and the thought of helping people is still what is so appealing to me. But I'm starting to realize that these dreams were formed when I was very young and impressionable - and before I had a clue what med school and the medical profession is actually about.

I do not get much of a thrill out of the material I'm learning. I am INCREDIBLY stressed out most of the time. When I came back after winter break, I literally could not study or get out of bed for almost 2 weeks. As a result I failed my first class and probably have to take that again over the summer, which will wreak havoc with my summer plans to travel and work in a lab.

A friend is a 3rd year, and I see the 18 (or more) hour days she puts in in her rotations, and I'm just absolutely dreading it. Then I've got residency to look forward to! And it's not like my actual career with it's hours, time on call, bureaucracy, insurance, etc. will be a picnic.

My friends all know (or knew) me as an upbeat, friendly person, and I have heard from least 4 people about how "different" I am now. I'm miserable, boring, and depressed. The only thing I EVER do is study. I've just canceled my weekend plans for this weekend, and had to do the same for the previous 4 (not that I had plans for 5 weekends in a row - all I want to do is have a friend visit for ONE weekend but I have to keep canceling on her).

My parents want me to drop out, or at least take time off. This is partly due to them watching a similar thing happen to my older sister a couple years ago when she was in med school - she became clinically depressed and possibly suicidal. She's still "on a break". Understandably, my parents fear for my safety.

One part of me says that "quitting is not an option, this is what I've always wanted." But the other part yearns for a normal life. A friend who is a lawyer (and works at a DA's office, so no long hours) told me "law school sucks, but it's only a couple years" - you are making a commitment that is going to last 8-12 years, and possibly your whole life. If I take another long vacation in my life, I'll consider myself lucky.

Med school has already destroyed my relationship with the man I thought I would marry. Now I know that getting into another relationship is just not an option. I am pretty certain I'll never get married.

I really just want a normal life. I really don't even talk to many of my friends anymore because when I do, I get so incredibly jealous and depressed that they are doing the things I used to do - go out, eat at nice restaurants, travel, date.

Why does med school have to be like this? Isn't it just so obvious that it's unhealthy for the students?

One other thing is that other than my time, I have no investment in this. I'm lucky enough that my parents are well-off enough to absorb the cost thus far. They have always made it clear that they would not support me once I moved out and I'd have to get a job, but now they are so worried about me that they are begging me to pay for the expenses I've incurred so far.


So, for the first time in about 12 years, I'm having serious doubts about this. The main problem is I have no idea what I would do otherwise. Pharmacy doesn't really appeal to me - what does is the one on one relationship that I can have with a patient, and the care I can give. I do have other (completely different) interests, like fashion and film, but it's just impossible to imagine going from something as important and serious as medicine to something as superficial as fashion. Know what I mean?

Anyway, I'm just asking for any support, advice, or encouragement. I know the common response is "suck it up", and "yeah, it sucks but you'll get through it", but at some point, for some people, it's just not for them - right?


Thanks so much for reading - this is much longer than I intended it to be, but virtually any comment you might have will be greatly appreciated. When is dropping out really a legitimate option?

 

[joshtb86]

i think you might need to seek some professional help from a therapist or psychiatrist about this issue. i dont know what school that you and people like you goto, but so far my experience has been nothing like that. in fact, sometimes i just dont have enough material to study and wind up studying the same things again which is unnecessary or more often just not studying. i hang out with my friends every night for at least an hour before calling it a night because it helps me relax. eveyrone at my school can relate.
but in terms of stress, if i was you, id talk to someone. it cant hurt. you need a social life for your own mental health. med school shouldnt be that overwhelming that you cant go out. i go out and hang out with friends every weekend and am done studying by 3-4 oclock the latest. i go home somtimes on weekends which is an hour away and allow myself to get so distracted i wind up barely studying. and im still doing really well in classes. mayb you need to change your study habits as well. med school shouldnt ruin your relationships with anyone.

 

[geogil]

First: you need to talk to a professional about how you're feeling. See the dean of student affairs (or similar person) and describe your difficulties. Ask them if the school has a psychiatrist on staff for employee / student needs. I wager they will.

2nd: never make any important life decisions while in a crisis. If you are clinically depressed, then you are not seeing the world as you would ordinarily and are apt to make decisions based on impaired reasoning.

3rd. Realize that 1st and 2nd year grades aren't that important. I know, I know, it's hard to believe. A survey of program directors for all of the various specialties consistently puts pre-clinical grades near the bottom of a list of 10-15 things that residency directors consider important. Look at teh AAMC's "career's in medicine page" if you don't believe me, you'll need a password from your school to get in initially. I'm really serious, the pre clinical grades are simply not that important.

4th: Back off and be patient. You are smart enough to get in, you should be ok passing your classes. Back off the studying and take some time for yourself. IT's possible to work out, see friends, and pass your classes. These things will add meaning back to your life and will help you maintains some balance.

5 . YOU NEED BALANCE. If you look at your behaviour and the results it's getting, it should be obvious that some thigns need changing. There are other things that are important in life besides school, and people are on that list. Your friends can help you, if you let them know you're struggling. School cannot, and I mean CANNOT, be the only thing you do in life.

Good luck.

 

[WellWornLad]

I will preface this by saying that you should definitely talk to a dean at your school about such a big decision.

Why does med school have to be like this?

It has to be like this because medicine is a big freaking responsibility, and society prefers to err on the side of competency when it comes to their health care.

Isn't it just so obvious that it's unhealthy for the students?

I don't think it is "unhealthy." If you feel that way, I think you're in the wrong field. That was a fairly long post you made, and I didn't spot one positive comment about medicine in the whole thing. In fact, you barely mentioned medicine, except in the most abstract of terms ("helping people").

You spent more time talking about life outside of "work:" visiting friends on the weekend, eating out at nice restaurants, marriage. It's fine to enjoy these things, but I don't think your average content med school student holds the "normal life" in such high esteem.

One other thing is that other than my time, I have no investment in this. I'm lucky enough that my parents are well-off enough to absorb the cost thus far. They have always made it clear that they would not support me once I moved out and I'd have to get a job, but now they are so worried about me that they are begging me to pay for the expenses I've incurred so far.

Sounds like you don't have a problem. Drop out, and thank God almighty that you don't have to choose between spending your life doing something you detest and crippling debt (or both).

The main problem is I have no idea what I would do otherwise.

You've got rich parents, and I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume you're in your early to mid twenties. You've got heaps of time. Go backpacking in Europe and find yourself. You're not going to fall in love with another profession that takes 7-12 years of post-grad training, trust me.

When is dropping out really a legitimate option?

When you're debt-free and hate medical school, I'd say.

 

[utorontograd]

Studying metabolic pathways in first year biochemistry, and other subject
matter of that ilk wasn't particularly sexy. But once I learned the
details "cold", then figured out what the clinical relevance was, then realized
that I still had at least two hours a night to do whatever I wanted, it was
rather enjoyable.

I'm just an average guy who had to work diligently to be able to do what I
just described.

I'm willing to bet you're a lot more intelligent than I am. I'm also willing to bet
that if you tweaked your approach to studying... alright, maybe overhauled
your approach, you could do the same or better.

I propose that if you get to the place that I just described and you still don't
want to do it, then quit. Transfer to the Fashion Institute of Technology in
NYC. If you quit now, you may be doing so prematurely - without having tried
everything to succeed.

I'm willing to help you 1 on 1. If you PM me, we can talk further.

 

[jv1983]

Thank you all for the responses so far. I agree it's best to talk to people at my school. I guess I have had a little too much pride up until now. I guess posting here was a first step and I will speak to people at school.

joshtb86 - I'm really surprised that you have that much free time. Every single one of my classmates feels the same as I do (maybe not depression-wise, but at least workload-wise). There will be an occasional "party" (10 people hanging out) on a Saturday night occasionally - maybe once a month. Even these degenerate into informal study sessions.

My school is a good one. Not top tier, but close. I'm reluctant to give its name; I hope you understand.

But it's really not just me - everyone around me feels overwhelmed, is breaking up with their boyfriends/girlfriends, even possibly getting divorced.

It's not that I want to go out and party. I mentioned dinners and friends and dating, because I want to have SOME semblance of a normal life. I mean, I want to go out to dinner maybe once a month. I want to hang out with friends for maybe 8 hours a month. But I can't - I know if I take any time off at all from studying I will be so behind, and I won't be able to catch up.

I do feel like I'm intelligent, and really I didn't have to study much in undergrad or when I got my masters. Maybe that's part of the problem - maybe I'm not efficient in my studying. But the fact that every single one of my classmates spends as much time studying as I do makes me think that I'm doing it the way I'm supposed to.

Finally - I absolutely do love medicine - I did enjoy anatomy (but just thought it was information overload, and a lot of mindless memorization), and I really cannot see myself being anything but a doctor. I don't know how to explain it - it's just been my dream forever.

That's what so hard - trying to reconcile everything. How much misery is worth giving up on your dream?

 

[socmob]

I know it's difficult, but you NEED to speak honestly w/ your dean about this and see a psychiatrist. You would be far from the first med student to become depressed in med school, believe me, there's quite a few people in my class who see therapists and take antidepressants (secretly, of course, b/c that's the culture of things). You don't have to talk about it with anyone else, but please talk to professionals. If you don't get help, things tend to snowball and if medicine has really been a dream for you, you'll have some major regrets. Deal with this now.

 

[finished]

I think you should see someone- clergy person, career counselor, school psychologist, outside psychiatrist, etc (take your pick), but please don't talk to the dean about this unless you're sure this situation can't be turned into something malignant and used against you later on. Once you get a "psych" label slapped on you, it can be impossible to remove, especially in medical school. That's not to say you shouldn't see someone, especially if you need to and/or are having any thoughts of self harm. It's just I'd think carefully about sharing this with the dean unless your 100% sure it wouldn't be used against you later. I know this sounds paranoid, but I'm talking from personal experience with this.
Does your school have undergrads, and if so, can you access their career counseling services as a medical student? Maybe there is something more suitable for you that would make you happy and would allow more balance between work and play. There's lots of different aptitude types of surveys that you can take to explore your options before you make your decision. Some can even be done online. I know time is limited when you're studying, but perhaps you can find time somehow to do the career counseling- maybe it will confirm that you should be a doctor!

Best Wishes to you!

 

[CorazonDoc]

5 . YOU NEED BALANCE. If you look at your behaviour and the results it's getting, it should be obvious that some thigns need changing. There are other things that are important in life besides school, and people are on that list. Your friends can help you, if you let them know you're struggling. School cannot, and I mean CANNOT, be the only thing you do in life. .

I second this statement. Try to schedule the things you enjoy if your life that aren't related to medical school first. Even if they are in short 30 minute blocks each day. It'll make you stick to them, have something to look forward to, and feel like you're not being completely absorbed by school. Plus, it'll help you feel recharged when you do get back to studying.

 

[myKuduSlewaZulu]

hello OP. take a deep breath. as said above, how about seeking help from your student wellness office? if you fail another class do you have to retake the entire year (that's the policy at my old school)? have you considered taking a leave of absence?
----
i was somewhat in your shoes and ended up taking an loa. when i came back i still felt the same way about it all and decided at that point that medicine just wasn't for me. not a big deal. pm me if you want to compare notes.

 

[MILK07]

I'm just a pre-med, so I can't say I understand what you are going through, since I haven't gotten there myself. I was just wondering if you ever thought about PA school? Only two years, not quite so much information. As a PA, you still get to see and take care of patients, you can choose an area to work in that interests you (i.e primary care, surgery, etc) with no residency and most PAs that I know don't work more than 45 hours per week, max. The pay is still good, there is no "call", you will have weekends off. It seems like it fits a lot of the things you are looking for.

Since you can leave school with no debt, why not? Take a year off to travel, etc, take the GRE, and start PA school next fall.

Whatever you decide, best of luck to you!

 

[silas2642]

I definitely agree with wellwornlad who said that you should talk to the dean/assistant dean of your school about how you're feeling before making any big decisions. Everyone wonders whether or not this is worth it-- anyone who tells you that they never once doubted their decision to enter medicine is lying to you or they're just plain crazy.

If you're starting to get depressed or think that you're starting to get depressed, go see you're physician. If the way you're feeling is due to clinical depression, then you definitely shouldn't be making any big decisions right now and you're doctor can certainly help either directly or by making an approrpriate referral. Also, your school may offer counseling services for students who are having difficulties-- give them a shot.

A lot of students struggle during med school either academically or personally. It's just that as future physicians, we're trained not to talk about it because we're supposed to be invulnerable to this ****. But you're definitely not alone.

 

[simpler2]

The way you're feeling sounds fairly familiar. Studying all day and the constant pressure of make or break exams for two years straight can easily make you lose touch with who you are. As for worries about the terrible hours of clinical rotations and residency, its still much much much much much more enjoyable and life-giving than the pre-clinical years. I would not recommend deciding whether or not you are meant to be a doctor based on pre-clinical years, especially (as someone else noted) during a time of extreme stress. This would be akin to abandoning aspirations towards being a painter because you are in a boring/stressful art history course.
Also, know that no matter how people try to write it off, many/most people I know went through similar struggles for at least sometime during those first two years. I do not agree with the responses that are trying to simply pathologize your concerns.

 

[GreenShirt]

It sounds like you may have over-gunned your first semester and burnt yourself out. If you study around the clock 24/7 under stress conditions you only end up not being able to get out of bed (where you are right now)...which is counter-productive. It's proper mental hygiene to make time for yourself. When it comes to studying it's about quality not quantity. I know you say all your classmates study as many hours as you but 1) They could be exaggerating how many hours they study 2) They may not be studying wisely. It takes a while to figure out how to study in medical school and even longer to realize that you can't make studying your entire life and be happy. Considering looking into better study strategies and scheduling time for yourself each week. Also, consider only studying within your ability even if that means lower grades (remember P=MD). If you push yourself to far you will only burn out.

 

[shiftingmirage]

Maybe an option is splitting years? My school allows you to divide the first 2 years over three so it's not so overwhelming. Maybe you could shadow someone in the field and get an idea of what it is really like, then make the decision.

Remember, you are not alone.

 

[8744]

Hi everyone - not sure if this will turn out to be a "request for advice" or "just listen to me vent" post, but in either case, thanks in advance for reading.

I'm in my first year, and am really starting to question if this is for me.
All my life, this is what I thought I wanted, and the thought of helping people is still what is so appealing to me. But I'm starting to realize that these dreams were formed when I was very young and impressionable - and before I had a clue what med school and the medical profession is actually about.

I do not get much of a thrill out of the material I'm learning. I am INCREDIBLY stressed out most of the time. When I came back after winter break, I literally could not study or get out of bed for almost 2 weeks. As a result I failed my first class and probably have to take that again over the summer, which will wreak havoc with my summer plans to travel and work in a lab.

A friend is a 3rd year, and I see the 18 (or more) hour days she puts in in her rotations, and I'm just absolutely dreading it. Then I've got residency to look forward to! And it's not like my actual career with it's hours, time on call, bureaucracy, insurance, etc. will be a picnic.

My friends all know (or knew) me as an upbeat, friendly person, and I have heard from least 4 people about how "different" I am now. I'm miserable, boring, and depressed. The only thing I EVER do is study. I've just canceled my weekend plans for this weekend, and had to do the same for the previous 4 (not that I had plans for 5 weekends in a row - all I want to do is have a friend visit for ONE weekend but I have to keep canceling on her).

My parents want me to drop out, or at least take time off. This is partly due to them watching a similar thing happen to my older sister a couple years ago when she was in med school - she became clinically depressed and possibly suicidal. She's still "on a break". Understandably, my parents fear for my safety.

One part of me says that "quitting is not an option, this is what I've always wanted." But the other part yearns for a normal life. A friend who is a lawyer (and works at a DA's office, so no long hours) told me "law school sucks, but it's only a couple years" - you are making a commitment that is going to last 8-12 years, and possibly your whole life. If I take another long vacation in my life, I'll consider myself lucky.

Med school has already destroyed my relationship with the man I thought I would marry. Now I know that getting into another relationship is just not an option. I am pretty certain I'll never get married.

I really just want a normal life. I really don't even talk to many of my friends anymore because when I do, I get so incredibly jealous and depressed that they are doing the things I used to do - go out, eat at nice restaurants, travel, date.

Why does med school have to be like this? Isn't it just so obvious that it's unhealthy for the students?

One other thing is that other than my time, I have no investment in this. I'm lucky enough that my parents are well-off enough to absorb the cost thus far. They have always made it clear that they would not support me once I moved out and I'd have to get a job, but now they are so worried about me that they are begging me to pay for the expenses I've incurred so far.


So, for the first time in about 12 years, I'm having serious doubts about this. The main problem is I have no idea what I would do otherwise. Pharmacy doesn't really appeal to me - what does is the one on one relationship that I can have with a patient, and the care I can give. I do have other (completely different) interests, like fashion and film, but it's just impossible to imagine going from something as important and serious as medicine to something as superficial as fashion. Know what I mean?

Anyway, I'm just asking for any support, advice, or encouragement. I know the common response is "suck it up", and "yeah, it sucks but you'll get through it", but at some point, for some people, it's just not for them - right?


Thanks so much for reading - this is much longer than I intended it to be, but virtually any comment you might have will be greatly appreciated. When is dropping out really a legitimate option?

Quit now. Never look back.

 

[SocialistMD]

I really just want a normal life. I really don't even talk to many of my friends anymore because when I do, I get so incredibly jealous and depressed that they are doing the things I used to do - go out, eat at nice restaurants, travel, date...Pharmacy doesn't really appeal to me - what does is the one on one relationship that I can have with a patient, and the care I can give.

Become a nurse. You get the one-on-one interaction with a patient (moreso than any MD ever will), you work in shifts so life is more in your control, the pay is reasonable and there is opportunity for advancement (CRNA, NP or nurse management, administration, etc...).

 

[tdittyx2x3]

Jesus its scary reading these every other day.

185 days and counting.

 

[silas2642]

Thank you all for the responses so far. I agree it's best to talk to people at my school. I guess I have had a little too much pride up until now. I guess posting here was a first step and I will speak to people at school.

joshtb86 - I'm really surprised that you have that much free time. Every single one of my classmates feels the same as I do (maybe not depression-wise, but at least workload-wise). There will be an occasional "party" (10 people hanging out) on a Saturday night occasionally - maybe once a month. Even these degenerate into informal study sessions.

My school is a good one. Not top tier, but close. I'm reluctant to give its name; I hope you understand.

But it's really not just me - everyone around me feels overwhelmed, is breaking up with their boyfriends/girlfriends, even possibly getting divorced.

It's not that I want to go out and party. I mentioned dinners and friends and dating, because I want to have SOME semblance of a normal life. I mean, I want to go out to dinner maybe once a month. I want to hang out with friends for maybe 8 hours a month. But I can't - I know if I take any time off at all from studying I will be so behind, and I won't be able to catch up.

I do feel like I'm intelligent, and really I didn't have to study much in undergrad or when I got my masters. Maybe that's part of the problem - maybe I'm not efficient in my studying. But the fact that every single one of my classmates spends as much time studying as I do makes me think that I'm doing it the way I'm supposed to.

Finally - I absolutely do love medicine - I did enjoy anatomy (but just thought it was information overload, and a lot of mindless memorization), and I really cannot see myself being anything but a doctor. I don't know how to explain it - it's just been my dream forever.

That's what so hard - trying to reconcile everything. How much misery is worth giving up on your dream?

If it makes you feel better, I think that as time goes by, you do get better at studying-- you get better at memorizing and more efficient because you have to. You may find that you don't end up getting more free time (in fact a lot of people find second year harder but way more interesting), but you also kind of get used to the fact that med school has pretty much consumed your life.

 

[minhaj]

Jesus its scary reading these every other day.

185 days and counting.

Thats exactly what I was thinking. I am getting depressed about med school and I haven't even started! lol I need to go to a happy place 😀

 

[silas2642]

Thats exactly what I was thinking. I am getting depressed about med school and I haven't even started! lol I need to go to a happy place 😀

Jesus Christ-- did you apply already this year? Nice profile. Why didn't you apply to more higher-tiered schools? You have a solid chance wherever you apply, unless you have a second head or something.

 

[minhaj]

Jesus Christ-- did you apply already this year? Nice profile. Why didn't you apply to more higher-tiered schools? You have a solid chance wherever you apply, unless you have a second head or something.

I ended up applying only to one school, UASOM. Mostly because my mom has been pretty sick over the last four years and although she is fine now, it would be nice for her if I stuck around for, you know, support. If I left she would get pretty lonely. Besides, UASOM is a pretty good school and CHEAP! haha

 

[WiscDoc]

Jesus its scary reading these every other day.

185 days and counting.

Well, these are very true issues about medical school. Think long and hard before committing to it. It's a great field, but it will consume most of your life.

 

[45408]

Thats exactly what I was thinking. I am getting depressed about med school and I haven't even started! lol I need to go to a happy place 😀

funny, your profile says "Medical Student," but you haven't even started...

 

[Polish Farmer]

I've got news for you bud, there is no such thing as a "normal" life. You want a "normal" life? Enjoy the unemployment line like everyone else in this economy. And Law? Joking right? My sis and bro in law finished law school, are banking big time at private firms but check emails all day long for their corporate clients, and sit in booths, no windows or contact with anybody. They hate it.

This is how it is works in terms of misery:

1st year > 2nd year > 3rd year > 4th year (currently) > Internship/ Residency > Attending

I am having a blast right now. Sure the first two years blew, but once you hit the wards its like going to a Disneyland of knowledge every day! Trust me when I tell you there is a specialty for everyone:

Love seeing patients, try IM - but then again you still are a little surgeon-like, try Cards or Pulm/CC, but maybe want something less intense try Endocrine, Allergy

Want to care for aliens, try Peds

Don't want to talk to people and want to get hooked on drugs, try Anesthesia

Hate people, try Path or Radiology

Hate life but are still somewhat normal, try Surgery

Hate life in general, try Trauma or Neurosurg

Like academics, become a professor or chair a department

Hate academics, go onto private practice. and on, and on, and on...

Or just finish med school and residency and work for Pharma. Don't blow the opportunity, no other job could work for me, I have too much ADHD.

 

[minhaj]

funny, your profile says "Medical Student," but you haven't even started...

hahaha true true... but I am almost there.

 

[Orthodoc40]

jv1983 - you are probably depressed. Not being able to get out of bed/study for 2 weeks is a sure sign. Feeling like you'll "never" get married right now is also probably another sign. You need to get to a health/wellness person at your school, and be honest like you were here - tell them what's been happening with you and include these parts so they get an honest picture of what's going on for you and can help you better.

At this point in time, I wouldn't suggest just leaving school, but if you decide on a break, a leave of absence or even a medical leave of absence to get some perspective for yourself. This has been a dream of yours for a while, and you're off to a rough start but that doesn't necessarily mean it was the wrong decision. It could, but you're not in the best place to decide that right now.

1st year is nothing like what the rest of your life will be like, if that helps at all. 1st year is just like another year of (ridiculously intense) undergrad. It's another hoop to jump through on your way to your goal (you HAVE to find a way to keep your inspiration & goal in mind!).

But a lot of people go into medicine because they thought they wanted to, and then they felt like they were somehow obligated to finish what they started, even though somewhere along the line they did realize it wasn't for them. So, it is better for you to change course if it really turns out to not be for you. Why be miserable for the rest of your life just because of a decision you made years ago?

 

[LadyWolverine]

A lot of what you are going through is also part of "growing up." Having less vacation time, needing to cancel weekend plans to go into work, having less time for hobbies and significant others, etc. - things like this are going to happen, no matter what you do for a living.

The sucky thing about medical school is that you end up having to "grow up" so much faster than most of your non-medical peers (aside from perhaps those who decided to start a family earlier on in life). You don't have time to really find out who you are, spend some time making mistakes, learn what it's like to live on your own, pay your own way, be in charge of something...

While I believe that there are a lot of fresh-out-of-college types who do very well in medical school, I also think that many do themselves a disservice by not taking a year or two (or, in my case, five) off to experience "growing up" in a non-medical school, non-parentally funded, non-college bubble. It sounds like you may be one of those people.

I think it is normal to question if this is what you want to do. I had that thought multiple times during my first year, and even more frequently during second year, which nearly destroyed me. Third year the hours definitely get worse, you have more (phony) responsibility (in terms of showing up on time to things), and though the work is infinitely more like "real life," you are still someone's bitch all day long and need to be on your toes most of the time. Knowing what I now know about the way medicine works in the US, I still ask myself quite often why I am doing this, but it's mostly for a very specific reason (and NOT because it's very difficult, because I'm stressed out, because I have to cancel plans, because I have to work all the time, etc.)

As for knowing that you wanted to do this for 12 years before deciding to quit: Look. "Clinical experience," or whatever pre-meds are calling it these days, is all well and good. But there's absolutely NO WAY you could understand what a med student/resident/doctor goes through on a daily basis until you actually undertake the journey yourself. I'm learning things now about the medical profession that I absolutely detest that I could never have known about had I spent the last 10+ years of my life in a non-physician/doctor-in-training medical position. So, don't beat yourself up about changing your mind this late in the game. More people than you know are going through the same thing.

I agree with the above posters who advised seeking counseling or outside help. Your feelings are rather extreme and you are having some pretty fatalistic notions (no chance for marriage or a meaningful relationship? You're what, 23? Relax already! Things will be fine.)

As for choosing a field - not every field of medicine is like medical school. There are some fields that are absolutely wonderful, you will have plenty of opportunity to interact with your patients, there are no gunners, and you will be able to have as much of a life as realisitically possible, in terms of the whole "growing up" thing. To do that, you have to discard a lot of what people say around here about certain specialties. An MD is just a degree - it is up to you to forge a career. For example, family medicine is a wonderful specialty for people who want to directly influence their patients, work with either a broad or more narrow range of people, see folks mostly in the outpatient setting, and actually have a life. Pathology is great for doctors who like working in the lab or doing histology/staging/grading, making the dx based on tissues, who don't mind a lack of patient interaction in comparison to other specialties. You can work as much or as little (within reason) as you want in some cases. I have found detrimental and redeeming qualities to every medical specialty I've rotated through thus far - it's just that some will get you more jazzed up than others. What you have to bear in mind at this point in time is that you are only in your 1st year - remember that things will change dramatically in less than 2 years. Does that mean you should stay in med school til that point? Maybe not. But what worked for me was finidng a mentor in a specialty I was interested in (EM/IM at the time) and shadowing/hanging out with this person whenever you feel like you are feeling now. If your batteries get recharged every time you spend an afternoon with them, then great - stick it out until 3rd year. If you find yourself counting the minutes until you leave the wards, then perhaps medical school really isn't for you.

And please, whatever you do, don't let the argument for you become "Can I hack it?" - the typical med-student "If I quit, I'm weak" personality flaw, which is typically the short-term POV. Anyone can hack it - it just takes some hard work and dedication. The question should be "Do I WANT to do this? Can I see myself being happy in the LONG-TERM from this decision?" This is a very real argument. This is not just something you are doing now, this will be your career for the rest of your life. Can you really be happy doing this, day-in and day-out, for the next 40, 50, 60+ years? It is very hard to think in the long-term when you are only 20-something years old, but try as best you can. If you want it, then do it. If you don't, then don't. What I find annoying are the people who feel the need to interject into a conversation..."Well, I could have been a doctor, but..." Know the reason why you are doing what you are doing. No excuses. If you want to stop, there's no shame in that. But understand the (relative) finality - once you are done, it's going to be very hard to go back.

Maybe you could consider a LoA for a year? Go live on your own for a bit?

Good luck to you 🙂

 

[eforest]

Not being able to study or get out of bed for two weeks and having your friends say you seem "different" could mean you are depressed. Also, it sounds like you went through a break up, which itself is traumatic. I went through a terrible break up with the man I thought I would marry and it definitely threw me. In med school, people are so taxed already that when one thing goes wrong, there are no reserves left to deal with whatever it is. Something like a break up can really be difficult.

It sounds like your family is very supportive which is really great.

 

[FatPigeon]

The hardest part about the first two years of med school was not letting my classmates freak me out. ALL you need for the first two years are PASSES....I'm dead serious, here. Your classmates will be acting like maniacs, because they were likely beaten as children and know nothing but how to study for 24 hours and ace their exams. It won't help them. For the first two years of school, I took what felt like a bold move and just allowed myself to have a VERY significant life outside of school and merely passed my classes with 70s. I was healthier for it, and it will ultimately matter less than whether I decide to wear black or brown shoes on residency interview days.

Third year is a bitch, because grades matter and you're still stuck with the nutcases. Just think of it as an awful year. You may find that you're naturally better at clinical work, and many of the kids who ace all the exams perform rather poorly with patients.

You're taking the first two years way too seriously. Put in hard study time a few months before step 1, do well on that, think of 3rd year as the only real tough hurdle aside from the boards, and...if you continue to feel this way....go into anesthesia or radiology! Seriously, it may piss a few people on this board off, but you can have a normal and satisfying life in those fields, even as a resident.

 

[Jwax]

Want to care for aliens, try Peds.

👍

But what worked for me was finidng a mentor in a specialty I was interested in (EM/IM at the time) and shadowing/hanging out with this person whenever you feel like you are feeling now. If your batteries get recharged every time you spend an afternoon with them, then great - stick it out until 3rd year. If you find yourself counting the minutes until you leave the wards, then perhaps medical school really isn't for you.

This is what I do, too. I've been feeling really burned out and have had the thought "I want to quit med school" run through my head multiple times a day for the past few weeks. So I scheduled some time with a doc in the specialty I'm into (it just so happens it is also EM). Just knowing that I've got that to look forward to in a few weeks makes studying for this miserable exam block just that much easier / more tolerable.

The hardest part about the first two years of med school was not letting my classmates freak me out. ALL you need for the first two years are PASSES....I'm dead serious, here. For the first two years of school, I took what felt like a bold move and just allowed myself to have a VERY significant life outside of school and merely passed my classes with 70s. I was healthier for it, and it will ultimately matter less than whether I decide to wear black or brown shoes on residency interview days.

Yep, outside normal life is possible. I maintain ~average grades. This is good enough for me as long as I can avoid panicking that I won't get into my residency of choice due to B's in 1st/2nd year (which is the hard part... panicking is such a large part of med school).

 

[75969]

You just described me...at the same exact time last year. While I dont LOVE school right now, I am dealing with it better and have stopped talking about quitting and/or how medicine is not for me...or how much I hate my life. I would highly recommend that you seek professional counseling. I (like many, many others) have been exactly where you are mentally. If you want advice, feel free to PM me.

 

[maceo]

my advice. DO NOT talk to anybody at your school about this.. I think talking abou tit here is great. you talk to your dean all of a sudden that **** goes on your record that you are depressed and you need a psychiatrist and all of a suddne you have to put that down on paper every single time you apply for credentialing or a medical license.. Keep talking about it here, if you think you are depressed or suicidal seek help without the help of your school. thanks

 

[Dral]

Want to care for aliens, try Peds

Are we talking the kids or the parents here? lol

OP: 2 weeks? SIGECAPS yourself. Sounds like it could be depression to me. Try to work through it. If you have a propensity for it now, you don't want to end up in Residency, have the same thing happen, and be clinically diagnosed. That's sorta death to a career you just spent 5 years and tons of money on already.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

DO NOT TALK TO ANYONE AFFILIATED WITH YOUR SCHOOL ABOUT HOW YOU FEEL. IT WILL BE ON YOUR RECORD.

The fact is that anyone who honestly expresses doubts about this fantastic profession is labeled as depressed, lazy, crazy, etc. Do NOT see a psychologist or psychiatrist about how you're feeling. You are weighing the pros and cons of your profession and the cons seem to outweigh the pros. It is not depression to be disappointed about not being able to enjoy activities and people you previously did. It is not depression to look at the root of the problem - medical training - and question it and hate it and contemplate leaving it. However, you must determine for yourself if these issues are unique to medicine or are also the case with any number of other careers you might consider.

If you must see someone, see a career counselor or clergyman *outside* of the university and medical system and hopefully without any links to healthcare at all - or just insightful friends and family members. I repeat, seeing shrinks gets you labeled and you *will* be punished in the future for having *documented* doubts about this glorious calling. Which is also why they have such a vitriolic attitude towards a "nonproductive" leave of absence - again, because it is supposedly indicative of laziness/craziness/personality defects.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

my advice. DO NOT talk to anybody at your school about this.. I think talking abou tit here is great. you talk to your dean all of a sudden that **** goes on your record that you are depressed and you need a psychiatrist and all of a suddne you have to put that down on paper every single time you apply for credentialing or a medical license.. Keep talking about it here, if you think you are depressed or suicidal seek help without the help of your school. thanks

No kidding. At my MD/PhD, one of the students expressed that he was feeling down about how much studying he had to do (around Step 1 time) to he program coordinator. Note: the program coordinator is not an MD or a PhD, she just coordinates stipends, interviews, letters, etc.

She told him - I kid you not - "Perhaps you need to see a psychiatrist and get antidepressants."

 

[Orthodoc40]

It IS depression to not be able to get out of bed for 2 weeks, and to feel like you will "never get married", on top of other things the OP has to say. Including the fact that his/her sister has been diagnosed with depression, which can run in families. You don't ignore this. If, however, the OP is paranoid about it, like some people here are, they can find someone outside of their school system to help. The truth is, this medical information is not on your record anywhere - its private.

Where school is concerned, there is no point in forcing yourself to slug it out and just continuously struggle or fail. You ARE most certainly ruining your record that way.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I hate to jump to a diagnosis based on an internet post. But OP, there is a very good chance you are suffering from depression; you need to seek help for these issues first before making any decisions about your future career.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

It IS depression to not be able to get out of bed for 2 weeks, and to feel like you will "never get married", on top of other things the OP has to say. Including the fact that his/her sister has been diagnosed with depression, which can run in families. You don't ignore this. If, however, the OP is paranoid about it, they can find someone outside of their school system to help. The truth is, this medical information is not on your record anywhere - its private.

There is no point in forcing yourself to slug it out and just continuously struggle or fail. You ARE ruining your record that way.

Sorry, I didn't know you were qualified to make telediagnoses.

Not everyone who's not bright eyed and bushy-tailed in the face of a daunting career/marriage/illness/etc. is depressed.

I think it's wrong for people to be diagnosing this person with depression on the basis of a few sentences on a forum, much less what his/her brother/sister have been diagnosed with.

There's lots of times when I and many others don't want to get out of bed for 2+ weeks straight. We do because we fear the consequences - failing, losing our jobs, reputation, etc. And no, we're not depressed.

Anyway, my point stands - seek help outside the school system to avoid getting stuff on your record.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Actually illnesses can go against you. I was at Borders in my hometown the other day. There, I met a former MD grad of Stanford University. He was a trauma surgeon at one point in his career. Anyhow, he said he was in the military before that and got diagnosed after medical school and residency and practicing for awhile. He was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and eventually his license to practice medicine was taken away from him.

That is correct. People with a diagnosis of mental illness are dehumanized in our society, and especially by physicians and administrators. One should strive as much as possible to avoid such a label, e.g. depressed, ADHD, etc.

 

[KidDr]

It IS depression to not be able to get out of bed for 2 weeks, and to feel like you will "never get married", on top of other things the OP has to say. Including the fact that his/her sister has been diagnosed with depression, which can run in families. You don't ignore this. If, however, the OP is paranoid about it, they can find someone outside of their school system to help. The truth is, this medical information is not on your record anywhere - its private.

There is no point in forcing yourself to slug it out and just continuously struggle or fail. You ARE ruining your record that way.

Yes, your record is technically private. But once you start applying for your medical license and for credentialing at various institutions (for residency and beyond), you will be asked about psychiatric diagnoses. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be treated for depression/etc if they need to be. But people should know that you will be asked about this later. I'm not going to argue about whether or not this is fair---it is what it is.

 

[confuse]

I think the word depression should not be thrown around so lightly especially in the medical field. From reading the OP's post, I feel like what she's going through is what most med student goes through at one point or another. Winter + traumatic break-up + 1st year adjustment to med school + stress = very understandable that she's feeling this way.
OP,
I wouldn't recommend you seeking professional help unless you continue to feel this way several months down the road. It's better for you to talk to your friends and maybe go home over the weekend to visit your family to destress. Med school is alot of hard work and it's a difficult thing for anyone to adjust to so don't make it more dramatic than it already is. Maybe you can lower your standards so that you won't have to work so hard and have more time to relax and hang out with friends. Are you involved in any club/activities right now? At my school, we have exams back to back but many of us are doing IM sports, acapella, volunteering work to keep us sane so don't feel like you need to study all the time. If you talk to your dean or seek professional help now, they might label you as clinically depressed and might make you take medications or leave of absence, this will really hamper your career down the road because residency really frown upon these things. You should think long and hard if your conditions really warrant this kind of professional help.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Just jumping in here to say that there are plenty of licensed doctors who have had a mental health diagnosis at some point in their career. Yes, you can still get licensed and you can still practice even if you speak with someone at your school at possible symptoms of a mental illness. I'm not saying the op is necessarily suffering from depression, but I think it's unwise to avoid treatment for a potentially serious condition just because of licensing fears. Yes, you will have to disclose it for licensing, but as long as you're treated and not impaired, it shouldn't be a problem.

As for the guys at Borders, I'd rather seek appropriate care than avoid it based on some third hand story about some random guy who claims he can't be a trauma surgeon because of a bipolar diagnosis. We all know someone who said something -- doesn't mean it's true.

 

[Nilf]

Hi everyone - not sure if this will turn out to be a "request for advice" or "just listen to me vent" post, but in either case, thanks in advance for reading.

I'm in my first year, and am really starting to question if this is for me.
All my life, this is what I thought I wanted, and the thought of helping people is still what is so appealing to me. But I'm starting to realize that these dreams were formed when I was very young and impressionable - and before I had a clue what med school and the medical profession is actually about.

I do not get much of a thrill out of the material I'm learning. I am INCREDIBLY stressed out most of the time. When I came back after winter break, I literally could not study or get out of bed for almost 2 weeks. As a result I failed my first class and probably have to take that again over the summer, which will wreak havoc with my summer plans to travel and work in a lab.

A friend is a 3rd year, and I see the 18 (or more) hour days she puts in in her rotations, and I'm just absolutely dreading it. Then I've got residency to look forward to! And it's not like my actual career with it's hours, time on call, bureaucracy, insurance, etc. will be a picnic.

My friends all know (or knew) me as an upbeat, friendly person, and I have heard from least 4 people about how "different" I am now. I'm miserable, boring, and depressed. The only thing I EVER do is study. I've just canceled my weekend plans for this weekend, and had to do the same for the previous 4 (not that I had plans for 5 weekends in a row - all I want to do is have a friend visit for ONE weekend but I have to keep canceling on her).

My parents want me to drop out, or at least take time off. This is partly due to them watching a similar thing happen to my older sister a couple years ago when she was in med school - she became clinically depressed and possibly suicidal. She's still "on a break". Understandably, my parents fear for my safety.

One part of me says that "quitting is not an option, this is what I've always wanted." But the other part yearns for a normal life. A friend who is a lawyer (and works at a DA's office, so no long hours) told me "law school sucks, but it's only a couple years" - you are making a commitment that is going to last 8-12 years, and possibly your whole life. If I take another long vacation in my life, I'll consider myself lucky.

Med school has already destroyed my relationship with the man I thought I would marry. Now I know that getting into another relationship is just not an option. I am pretty certain I'll never get married.

I really just want a normal life. I really don't even talk to many of my friends anymore because when I do, I get so incredibly jealous and depressed that they are doing the things I used to do - go out, eat at nice restaurants, travel, date.

Why does med school have to be like this? Isn't it just so obvious that it's unhealthy for the students?

One other thing is that other than my time, I have no investment in this. I'm lucky enough that my parents are well-off enough to absorb the cost thus far. They have always made it clear that they would not support me once I moved out and I'd have to get a job, but now they are so worried about me that they are begging me to pay for the expenses I've incurred so far.


So, for the first time in about 12 years, I'm having serious doubts about this. The main problem is I have no idea what I would do otherwise. Pharmacy doesn't really appeal to me - what does is the one on one relationship that I can have with a patient, and the care I can give. I do have other (completely different) interests, like fashion and film, but it's just impossible to imagine going from something as important and serious as medicine to something as superficial as fashion. Know what I mean?

Anyway, I'm just asking for any support, advice, or encouragement. I know the common response is "suck it up", and "yeah, it sucks but you'll get through it", but at some point, for some people, it's just not for them - right?


Thanks so much for reading - this is much longer than I intended it to be, but virtually any comment you might have will be greatly appreciated. When is dropping out really a legitimate option?

I strongly encourage you to quit.

If you cannot quit, then consider pathology.

 

[sirus_virus]

OP, make sure you seek help and keep things in perspective. Few things to remember:

1) Medschool is difficult for every student.

2) Anywhere from 60% - 80% of medstudents will qualify as depressed at different points in time during their education, so anyone looking down on a student seeking help for depression is nothing more than a self deceiving idiot.

3) Medical training is not medical practice. Make sure you figure out the difference before you quit. It might turn out that medical practice is not a good fit for you either. In that case, I would quit, otherwise don't.

4) Like someone else pointed out, handle your info with care. The very deans office that encourages you to walk in for routine hugs might turn around and load your records with all sorts of negative stuff, just because you were open to them about feelings 80% of their students have been hiding; feelings that have forced some to commit suicide. This to me is like abusing a child who did nothing wrong but trust you. Pretty disgusting, but that is the state of affairs.

5) There is absolutely nothing wrong with quitting. Make sure you have a good financial exit strategy too.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Yes, your record is technically private. But once you start applying for your medical license and for credentialing at various institutions (for residency and beyond), you will be asked about psychiatric diagnoses. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be treated for depression/etc if they need to be. But people should know that you will be asked about this later. I'm not going to argue about whether or not this is fair---it is what it is.

I'm well aware that you are asked about psych diagnoses on applications. I'm also well aware that you are not required to disclose it/them.

Look I wasn't trying to be definitive - of COURSE I don't know the OP is depressed for certain - but there are several signs, and like Doctor Bagel said, it isn't worth the personal cost to ignore.

If the OP continues to struggle, they will land up out of school because of not passing.
If the OP is depressed and gets help, he/she may not continue to struggle.
If the OP is paranoid like some people here are, he/she can get help outside of school, but ignoring it is just going to make it worse.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

In all seriousness and debates about medical licensure aside, wouldn't the best course of action seem to be to talk to the school counseling services???

Assuming you aren't locked in your basement with your tin foil hat on, yes.

 

[peppy]

As a fourth year who is about to graduate, I would agree that the first year of medical school is definitely the hardest: you've got to adjust to a new way of life, you're forced to study harder than you ever had to before just to keep up, and most of the information is not all that exciting. I guarantee none of your classmates are thrilled by what they're studying either.
However, my experience was that the time went by faster than I expected (wow, I can't believe I'm already getting ready to graduate!) and that each year was better than the previous one. Fourth year of med school has been one of the best years of my life. :-D

2nd year, the material is a bit more interesting because it's easier to see how it is clinically relevant. Studying for boards was stressful - but it's really only for a few weeks, and then you can forget about it after you've done your best on the test.
3rd year varies from one institution to the next, but I would be surprised if ALL your friend's rotations are 18 hour days. Even on the rotations that have long hours like General Surgery, you might be surprised at how fast the time goes by when you're *doing* something and learning stuff along the way (even though I am going into psychiatry, which is practically the antithesis of General Surgery, I actually had a good experience on my surgery rotation and learned a lot!).
I even found time to date, believe it or not! During 3rd year, I started dating my current partner, who has been very supportive and understanding about what sacrifices my career requires. You don't have to stay single forever. 🙂
4th year is pretty much what you want to make of it. Doing stuff relevant to my future specialty has made my 4th year a lot of fun for me.

Medicine is incredibly diverse. You can find your way into a residency and specialty that suits your personality and the kind of life you want. It sounds like you don't really want to live the life of an internist or general surgeon. That's okay! That might just mean that you're better off going into a field like Pathology, PM&R, Psychiatry, Emergency Medicine, or even Family Med (the hours a family doc works run the gamut, depending on their chosen practice setup - some even work part time). Those are all fields where you can "have a life" outside of medicine. They're all also fields that an average student has a realistic chance at matching into (as opposed to something like Dermatology). You have a lot of great options open to you.

I definitely agree with the others to get some advice and support about the stress and depression. IF you decide you can't handle the pace of medical school, see if your school has the option of extending your curriculum over five years or something of that nature. Some schools do have that kind of option available to accommodate students who are pregnant or have a sick relative or such. It would be better to graduate a year late than to quit altogether in my view.
If it was easy to do medicine, everyone would do it. 🙂 Good luck.

I really don't know a lot about licensing and the issue of mental illness, but in regards to this:

There, I met a former MD grad of Stanford University. He was a trauma surgeon at one point in his career. Anyhow, he said he was in the military before that and got diagnosed after medical school and residency and practicing for awhile. He was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and eventually his license to practice medicine was taken away from him.

Sometimes a lack of sleep can precipitate a manic episode, so I can definitely see how that could cause serious problems for a trauma surgeon. It is possible that his license was taken away not just because he had a diagnosis but because his condition was being aggravated by the sleep deprivation inherent to his job and causing him to make poor clinical decisions. Now, maybe that's not the case...I'm just saying, there may be more to the story than you'd expect, and that guy's story might not apply to other people.

 

[ChichiMD]

Assuming you aren't locked in your basement with your tin foil hat on, yes.

This is insesnsitive. lmao.

 

[sprinkibrio]

You spent more time talking about life outside of "work:" visiting friends on the weekend, eating out at nice restaurants, marriage. It's fine to enjoy these things, but I don't think your average content med school student holds the "normal life" in such high esteem.

I'm happy to say those same things mean A LOT to me, just like the OP. You're priorities are where they should be--a balanced life and a realization that there is more to life than monitary success and EVEN saving other people's lives. You need to take some time off and realize how to live the life you want while working in a very demanding field. I took a year off after college and did just about nothing. It helped me realize that giving up eight hours a day on weekdays and 6 on weekends to study (of course, more during a test week) is more fulfilling than watching tv, jacking around on the internet, and shopping... although I do still enjoy those things and have time for them.

When you come back to school hopefully you will find a way to study, be happy with your scores, and allocate time for exercise, dinners, and dates. I've done it... my parents came to visit for two days RIGHT before a test and I got to spend two hours with them at dinner. I didn't feel guilty for not spending more time with them and I didn't feel guilty for not studying for that two hours. It is possible for you to get there eventually! Good luck!