Having TONS of research but not doing md PhD : harmful?

[akimhaneul]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I have a lot of research experience : 2 years at NIH, several semesters and two summer research internships during undergrad, and now currently working as a lab tech at top 25 med.

Also 5 pubs as a co author

These are all basic science research. I have never done clinical research.

I am currently applying for this cycle to start medical school in 2020.

I have other things such as clinical experience, volunteering etc but research is something that makes me stand out a lot. My gpa is 3.9 and I don’t have my MCAT yet. I scored about 512-514 on my practice exams

I see research as something very rewarding, but I can’t see myself spending extra years to complete the PhD degree on top of MD.


I am just wondering...would not committing to md PhD programs actually hurt my chances? If I talk about how I enjoyed research a lot in my application, would the adcoms actually wonder why I didn’t apply to md PhD and suspect that my love for research is not genuine?

I think it’s really admirable what research has done for medicine, but md PhD is just too long for me.

 

[907914]

am just wondering...would not committing to md PhD programs actually hurt my chances?

Not in the slightest. Your dedication to research may raise the question of ‘why not just get a PhD’ but no one is going to try to commit you to a dual degree program

 

[akimhaneul]

Not in the slightest. Your dedication to research may raise the question of ‘why not just get a PhD’ but no one is going to try to commit you to a dual degree program

Thank you for your reply.

So during interview if I ever get one they won’t be like “why didn’t you apply to our md PhD program? I feel like you would have been a good candidate.”?

 

[Goro]

I have a lot of research experience : 2 years at NIH, several semesters and two summer research internships during undergrad, and now currently working as a lab tech at top 25 med.

Also 5 pubs as a co author

These are all basic science research. I have never done clinical research.

I am currently applying for this cycle to start medical school in 2020.

I have other things such as clinical experience, volunteering etc but research is something that makes me stand out a lot. My gpa is 3.9 and I don’t have my MCAT yet. I scored about 512-514 on my practice exams

I see research as something very rewarding, but I can’t see myself spending extra years to complete the PhD degree on top of MD.


I am just wondering...would not committing to md PhD programs actually hurt my chances? If I talk about how I enjoyed research a lot in my application, would the adcoms actually wonder why I didn’t apply to md PhD and suspect that my love for research is not genuine?

I think it’s really admirable what research has done for medicine, but md PhD is just too long for me.

As long as you have the other ECs, you'll be fine.

 

[akimhaneul]

As long as you have the other ECs, you'll be fine.

Thank you goro. Maybe I’m being too anxious, but I feel like I would have no words if someone ever asked me “why didn’t you apply to our md PhD program” during the interview. Would admission officers go that far for someone like me?

 

[907914]

Thank you goro. Maybe I’m being too anxious, but I feel like I would have no words if someone ever asked me “why didn’t you apply to our md PhD program” during the interview. Would admission officers go that far for someone like me?

No. They don’t care. The applicant pool for MD/PhD is already so full of people who are equivalent or exceeding in your research that they would not reach out to you in the slightest. The ADCOM members for MD/PhD programs likely won’t even see your application unless you apply.

 

[Goro]

Thank you goro. Maybe I’m being too anxious, but I feel like I would have no words if someone ever asked me “why didn’t you apply to our md PhD program” during the interview. Would admission officers go that far for someone like me?

You'd better come up with an answer. Research wannabes do not always fare well in interviews.

 

[akimhaneul]

The applicant pool for MD/PhD is already so full of people who are equivalent or exceeding in your research

Wow really?

 

[907914]

Wow really?

As far as I can tell. Those with lots of research are rare, but when they all/mostly all apply for MD/PhD...

 

[MyOdyssey]

You'd better come up with an answer. Research wannabes do not always fare well in interviews.

How does that play out in your experience, Goro?

 

[deleted972488]

Having extensive research experience will help you tremendously! There are many schools that require research as a part of the MD curriculum (not just for MD/PhD students) .

However, as others have said, you still need to be competitive in other areas of your application (MCAT, clinical experience, volunteering, shadowing, etc.). And yes, they may ask you why you didn't want to do a PhD, but there are plenty of good answers to this.

 

[Isoval]

I had 1500 hours of research with pubs, posters, and oral presentations.

Nobody even asked why I wasn't doing a PhD in interviews.

 

[akimhaneul]

I had 1500 hours of research with pubs, posters, and oral presentations.

Nobody even asked why I wasn't doing a PhD in interviews.

You only did MD? Are you a student now?

 

[Goro]

How does that play out in your experience, Goro?

Wait list time

 

[907914]

Wait list time

Should we just get a jump start on making a Waitlist support thread for 2019-2020?

 

[Isoval]

You only did MD? Are you a student now?

I'm a current DO student.

I interviewed at 1 DO school and 3 MD schools in Texas.

Although all four schools had an emphasis on research in some way, it did not ever really come up at any of my interviews. The closest we ever got was one of the MD interviewers asking me to "tell them about my research".

 

[LiftingMed]

Similar position, also did a post bac at NIH and worked in a research lab during most of my undergrad years with several publications, I was debating on whether to apply to MD/PhD or DO/PhD programs, but realized I liked doing research, but didn't love it. Also, the fact that I could still pursue research with an MD or DO degree in the future was also something I considered. With only a PhD, you can do research, but can't see patients.

 

[907914]

Realistically, what even is the purpose of an MD/PhD?

 

[LiftingMed]

Realistically, what even is the purpose of an MD/PhD?

It gives you the proper tools (education and training) to run your own lab one day. As I stated, you could still pursue research with an MD/DO degree, but you'll still spend a few years doing research fellowships in order to develop your own "research skills" if your future goal was also to run your own lab.

 

[deleted972488]

Realistically, what even is the purpose of an MD/PhD?

PIs with both degrees (like my PI) tend to get the most funding for research. Also, it makes you highly desirable for academic medical centers.

you've got tooooo many for MD

I have more than OP so I must be screwed. 🙂

It gives you the proper tools (education and training) to run your own lab one day.

You can do this with a PhD (and without an MD), but the job market is rough.

 

[907914]

PIs with both degrees (like my PI) tend to get the most funding for research. Also, it makes you highly desirable for academic medical centers.

So, the MD adds clout to you knowing what you are talking about what you want to pursue and the PhD adds clout to you actually being capable of pursuing it and that impresses donors/funds-distributors so you get more grants?

 

[deleted972488]

So, the MD adds clout to you knowing what you are talking about what you want to pursue and the PhD adds clout to you actually being capable of pursuing it and that impresses donors/funds-distributors so you get more grants?

Something like that!

 

[LiftingMed]

You can do this with a PhD (and without an MD), but the job market is rough.

Yes, I'm aware, but I was answering "purpose of MD/PhD" given that you could still pursue research with just MD.

 

[deleted972488]

Yes, I'm aware, but I was answering "purpose of MD/PhD" given that you could still pursue research with just MD.

But if you can do something with just one degree there is no point in getting both.

 

[akimhaneul]

Similar position, also did a post bac at NIH and worked in a research lab during most of my undergrad years with several publications, I was debating on whether to apply to MD/PhD or DO/PhD programs, but realized I liked doing research, but didn't love it. Also, the fact that I could still pursue research with an MD or DO degree in the future was also something I considered. With only a PhD, you can do research, but can't see patients.

Are you already in medical school now? If an interviewer asked you “you have a lot of research and seem to enjoy it so why didn’t you apply to our mstp” what would you say?

You should've given me one of your pubs since you've got tooooo many for MD.😉

But if you answer Why medical school? with I love research, then it might come off as weird?

I wrote about becoming an academic physician in my ps because of the inspiration I gained from volunteering (especially teaching young kids), observing physicians, and a lot of research.

 

[Seihai]

But if you can do something with just one degree there is no point in getting both.

As someone who wants to do an MD-PhD, this is the biggest question someone considering doing one needs to ask themselves:

"Can I meet my future career goals with just an MD or just a PhD?"

 

[AnMDtoB]

Should we just get a jump start on making a Waitlist support thread for 2019-2020?

I mean there's already an accepted students thread so if anything you're late to the game 😉

 

[907914]

I mean there's already an accepted students thread so if anything you're late to the game 😉

Lol I made a thread in November of 2018 about “preparing for rejection in the 2020 cycle” before I even had my first AAMC FL 😆 ****’s depressing

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

MD/PhD allows you to train as a physician scientist. Programs in the US are heavily integrated and emphasis is put on matching your research with your clinical interests. I personally want to work with big datasets...that is not my undergraduate background, and although I have a year of experience, I think having dedicated time to learn and polish my skills will be valuable. MD/PhD programs also grant tuition waivers and stipends, so there isn’t a huge debt burden and you can seek out research focused (I.e lower paying) jobs with no issue. One of my mentors only had an MD yet worked as an 80-20 clinician scientist, but (a) he went to medical school in Canada where it is much less expensive + he got a scholarship, and (b) he did a 2-3 year postdoc after residency in which he published like 15 basic science papers.

Anyway, OP, Id prepare an answer (realized I like to work with patients/prefer interpersonal experience etc.) but if the rest is good, I dunno why there would be an issue.

 

[MyOdyssey]

MD/PhD allows you to train as a physician scientist. Programs in the US are heavily integrated and emphasis is put on matching your research with your clinical interests. I personally want to work with big datasets...that is not my undergraduate background, and although I have a year of experience, I think having dedicated time to learn and polish my skills will be valuable. MD/PhD programs also grant tuition waivers and stipends, so there isn’t a huge debt burden and you can seek out research focused (I.e lower paying) jobs with no issue. One of my mentors only had an MD yet worked as an 80-20 clinician scientist, but (a) he went to medical school in Canada where it is much less expensive + he got a scholarship, and (b) he did a 2-3 year postdoc after residency in which he published like 15 basic science papers.

Anyway, OP, Id prepare an answer (realized I like to work with patients/prefer interpersonal experience etc.) but if the rest is good, I dunno why there would be an issue.

My impression is that a lot of MD/PhDs either go full research or full clinical in an academic setting.

It must be difficult to do a research/clinical split unless you have someone doing the day to day research work in the lab while you're seeing patients.

 

[deleted972488]

unless you have someone doing the day to day research work in the lab while you're seeing patients.

This is what happens. My PI never comes into the lab.

 

[Ambery]

Hi even if you are not asked about why not PhD in interviews, i would really encourage you to talk about why you want to pursue a clinical career instead of research (in a subtle way of course, like talking about memorable patient interactions). Research will not hurt you but if it's the most dominant aspect of your application, it'll raise some questions.

 

[bumblebee953]

Hi even if you are not asked about why not PhD in interviews, i would really encourage you to talk about why you want to pursue a clinical career instead of research (in a subtle way of course, like talking about memorable patient interactions). Research will not hurt you but if it's the most dominant aspect of your application, it'll raise some questions.

Echoing this. And especially be careful how you frame your motivations in a personal statement. MD programs are looking for those committed to serving others - not grad students. I included how I wanted to go along the physician-scientist path, and I got feedback for being too narrow.

 

[Seihai]

Echoing this. And especially be careful how you frame your motivations in a personal statement. MD programs are looking for those committed to serving others - not grad students. I included how I wanted to go along the physician-scientist path, and I got feedback for being too narrow.

This is true. Having a significant research background CAN hurt you if you say that you are committed to being a researcher. MD programs want to turn out people who practice medicine more than people who will do primarily research in the future.

That doesn't mean you can't mention research or having that research background is bad in the first place. Just avoid making it a focus of your application compared to your clinical experiences.

Everything I just said is only relevant to people applying MD. If you apply MD-PhD, then the absolute REVERSE is true, so keep that in mind. This is why I'm always suspect of people who apply both MD and MD-PhD, as your essays will seem almost in counter to each other.

 

[freelancePsychic]

Realistically, what even is the purpose of an MD/PhD?

Better job security, pay, and clinical knowledge than a PHD.

Better research training than an MD at a much lower cost. There are MDs who do research, but if you want to be good than you have to get extra training one way or another. It’s telling that MDs, PHDs, and MDPHDs all get their first R01s at around the same age- there are no shortcuts to becoming a competent researcher.

 

[Stagg737]

Thank you for your reply.

So during interview if I ever get one they won’t be like “why didn’t you apply to our md PhD program? I feel like you would have been a good candidate.”?

It can be something as simple as "While I do enjoy research, I believe I would like to prioritize clinical medicine in my career". You said you want to do academic medicine and teach, I don't think most programs (if any) will hold not applying MD/PhD against you unless you're stating that you mostly want to do research in your application.

I'm at a large academic center for residency and many of my academic attendings have significantly less research experience than you and I can't think of any MD/PhDs in our department other than the chair. Your answer doesn't have to be groundbreaking, just keep it simple.