Heads up re: WestPenn Allegheny

[Trisomy13]

just got back to town and learned that there is a dispute going on here between the anesthesiology group and the hospitals in the WPAHS system. i thought some of you might be interested in following this story if you are applying here for residency. i have no idea how or if this will affect the residency program, and i tend to think that the major issues should be hammered out quickly anyway (how long can you really hold up surgeries?). i should be talking with some of the attendings here in the coming days and if i hear anything important that could impact the decision making process for residencies, i'll follow up to this thread. apologies if this has been addressed previously.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/search/s_386873.html

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05289/589011.stm

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[hermione]

Are they currently not working? Or just in the midst of figuring out the future? Hm, interesting, considering I start an elective there soon. Wonder if I should look into something else, or is it just business as usual?

 

[livewires]

From "inside" sources, things are not looking good. Several of the doctors have already left and the problem is serious enough that they are postponing all interviews until atleast December. Apparently this problem had been going on for some time now and the hospital system is in the process of recruiting outside doctors to fill the WPAA shoes. The program is in jeapardy of losing all of it's residency spots and both pain fellowships. The residents were told that they may be placed in other programs and the hospital is in the process of securing them spots. This is a VERY bad situation. Soon, UPMC will run the world....NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

 

[hermione]

Wow. Thanks for the info. It's good that they are at least trying to find spots for everybody that is there now. Maybe I better look into other options for my next rotation. Hm.

 

[Trisomy13]

Wow. Thanks for the info. It's good that they are at least trying to find spots for everybody that is there now. Maybe I better look into other options for my next rotation. Hm.

I would at least secure some alternative options. Our school elective catalog is showing all the anesthesiology electives as accepting a maximum number of students per block as zero. I don't know if existing scheduled rotations are being canceled, because I haven't spoken to anyone in that situation yet. If I find out I'll post here, but you can probably find out faster by calling the dept secretary or whomever your contact person is.

And to verify some info above, I did hear later today that they are actively recruiting physicians. Looks like I'm goin' to Cleveland. But I'll never go to a Browns game. 😛

 

[hermione]

Seems to me that going to a Browns game this season may be my only hope of seeing the Steelers play! Even if it is on Christmas eve. 🙂

Thanks again, I did in fact call today but got no answer. Guess I'll try again tomorrow.

 

[Monitor]

😕 😕 Now what do I do? I only applied to one program, this program. 😕 😕

 

[Trisomy13]

Well, I rec'd an invite from WPAHS today, so that might be a good sign, but I'm still hesitant. I'm going to track down a couple attendings tomorrow and see if I can get some candid opinions. I meant to this afternoon but when my medicine resident said "today would be a good day to take off early" I was out the door. ;-)

 

[chicamedica]

😕 😕 Now what do I do? I only applied to one program, this program. 😕 😕

Yeah right. . . 🙄

😀

 

[hermione]

Talked to Lori Slade today who told me that "Nothing is changing with the residency program"???? And that the rotation was still a go.

Then I rec'd the invite to interview via ERAS. Curious.

Hey Trisomy, are you a Temple Student??

 

[Trisomy13]

Talked to Lori Slade today who told me that "Nothing is changing with the residency program"???? And that the rotation was still a go.

Then I rec'd the invite to interview via ERAS. Curious.

Hey Trisomy, are you a Temple Student??

Drexel student, so I'm seeing the AGH side of things, and not the West Penn part. If nothing is changing, then that's good, but I find it hard to swallow without seeing the current situation resolved. I'm going Dec 10. Maybe I'll see you there.

 

[hermione]

Drexel student, so I'm seeing the AGH side of things, and not the West Penn part. If nothing is changing, then that's good, but I find it hard to swallow without seeing the current situation resolved. I'm going Dec 10. Maybe I'll see you there.

I agree, I don't know how much they really wanted to tell me, or how 100% truthful it was. Guess time will tell. I'll be there 12/3. Good luck to you!

 

[livewires]

Another article in the Tribune Review last week (Sunday Oct 16th...I think) about the WPAA group. The article really paints a picture of doom on the situation. In my opinion, this program will no make it through Christmas. SUCKS!!!

 

[hermione]

Yup, sucks! Hopefully I can get some more info from the "front lines" on Monday morning. Or maybe I'll be going on strike too. I could use a month of striking.

 

[Trisomy13]

Yup, sucks! Hopefully I can get some more info from the "front lines" on Monday morning. Or maybe I'll be going on strike too. I could use a month of striking.

hey is your rotation at West Penn or Allegheny General, or both?

 

[hermione]

hey is your rotation at West Penn or Allegheny General, or both?

Just West Penn.

 

[quark]

It's probably a good idea to be really cautious. Remember what happened at AGH in 2002 when their program went caput!

 

[quark]

For those of you still thinking about West Penn, here is an update.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05313/602818.stm

 

[lvspro]

Yo
Not good.... not good at all. I have some family in pennsylvania, and was considering a high ranking if I liked their facilities/program. I guess we'll have to see how this thing pans out.
On another note, anyone have any info about this program w/r/t volume/workload/hours/moonlighting/variety? Just wondering, I wasn't able to find anything on scutwork, or on last years residency review thread.
btw, 1/14 for me.

 

[Lara]

I'm not applying to gas, but I can give some West Penn hospital info as a student. The start day was 6:20 with teaching conferences till 7 - those seemed ok, but with just one week I can't judge. Surgeries begin at 7:30 and last till late afternoon (at least those scheduled ahead of time...generally most are done by 5). There are about 20 OR rooms in the hospital and the surgery department has a good reputation overall among us students. 🙂 There is a CNRA/SNRA presence (the West Penn school of nursing's next door).

In terms of what you'll see - this is a pretty eldery area with lots of the typical HTN/DM/heart/COPD complaints...I wouldn't expect too many zebras in general. West Penn does have a good burn unit, so I'm sure that translates to more cases than the average hospital. No trauma, but I'm guessing AGH gives that experience.

What you *will* get here I think is great OB experience - tons of epidurals even in your CA-1 year. The L&D service is pretty strong (also reflected in our 20+ bed NICU) and anesthesia's always being called for those. I remember reading a post on this board by someone in the program who said how many he/she'd done, and wasn't believed.

At the time I was thinking about gas, so I asked around as to how the residents felt. I have no idea how happy they are compared to the average gas resident, but they definitely seemed satisfied and I heard no serious complaints. I also got nothing but encouragement to choose gas. In the end, it's not a high powered academic program but you'll get good training in a relatively low stress setting (assuming AGH's not malingnant!)

I've been away for some months so unfortunately I can't give any info on what's going on - but it would really be a shame if this affects the gas program. 🙁 I don't doubt there are programs I'd rank above here, but I'd certainly have applied. The immediate area's not ritzy, but nice enough (I guess I'd say similar for the hospital - not super fancy but definitely not depressing) and you won't be lacking for food. Hope this helps some...

 

[Trisomy13]

No trauma, but I'm guessing AGH gives that experience.

AGH does have a Level 1 Trauma Center that stays pretty busy (the trauma ICU has 24 beds, although it is not usually at capacity, and anesthesiologists do not manage pts there). Naturally some of the cases do go emergently to the OR and involve anesthesiology

(assuming AGH's not malingnant!)

I would not say the atmosphere is malignant at AGH. I *do* hear that the residents prefer their months at West Penn, but having spent most of two years at AGH for MS3-4 I can say that the people are generally nice here, and the surgeons are reasonable (the normal spectrum of gentleman --- egomaniac).



I have been doing a poor job of communicating with my friends in the residency program to get a feel for the situation, probably because i have already moved on in my mind. If it's any indication, the text pages that go out for Stat Intubations at AGH now include more details as to location (i.e. instead of the old "trauma rm 17" they indicate the building and floor. I thought it could just be a new system, or maybe they are getting more locum tenens covering spots. If I get any real info, and not just my speculation, I'll update this thread.

 

[hermione]

I do know for a fact that the official stance of the hospital is that the residency program will not be affected by the changes taking place. The attendings do not, as a whole, believe this. The situation remains up in the air, and the last I heard, they were interviewing but may not participate in the match. They may wait and see what happens as time goes on over the next few months. I think that this is the responsible approach, as it would SUCK to match there only to find out months later that there is no program. Some of this, is, of course, just the rumor around the OR, and if I hear any hard facts I will be sure to post them.

 

[Ahh...The Life]

Is the residency going to be around post Group Change?

Anyone know if there will be a back-up plan for residents who match there if the program folds post-match?

Anyone interview there and know any answers? If so, please share with those who are considering this program. 👍

 

[hermione]

Is the residency going to be around post Group Change?

Anyone know if there will be a back-up plan for residents who match there if the program folds post-match?

Anyone interview there and know any answers? If so, please share with those who are considering this program. 👍

No one has interviewed yet. The first interview date is 12/3. What I said above is the latest on the post-group change future of the program. It came from the assistant PD at a resident lecture last week. They have found places for the current residents at UPMC as far as I know, if they do end up shutting down. They might not take new residents next year. See above post.

 

[Ahh...The Life]

No one has interviewed yet. The first interview date is 12/3. What I said above is the latest on the post-group change future of the program. It came from the assistant PD at a resident lecture last week. They have found places for the current residents at UPMC as far as I know, if they do end up shutting down. They might not take new residents next year. See above post.

I got a response today from the PD. When I inquired about the state of affairs in light of the highly publicized group change.

 

[Trisomy13]

How many people have decided not to interview given the current situation?

I'm still going, Dec. 10. I live a few miles away and the interview is on a Saturday so I don't have any real reason to not go and meet with them.

Everything that is going down does make me very hesitant. Unfortunately 😛 Makes my choices for staying in the area very slim (i.e. Mercy).

 

[hermione]

I'm still going, Dec. 10. I live a few miles away and the interview is on a Saturday so I don't have any real reason to not go and meet with them.

Everything that is going down does make me very hesitant. Unfortunately 😛 Makes my choices for staying in the area very slim (i.e. Mercy).

Yeah Mercy with their whopping THREE positions per year. 🙄

Thanks for all the good info, everyone. Especially the email. Some of the residents here have been asking me what "they" are telling applicants, and I had to say "nothing"...until you posted that.

Good luck everyone!!

 

[Trisomy13]

Yeah Mercy with their whopping THREE positions per year. 🙄

that makes me, you, and some guy from cleveland.


are you interviewing at U Pitt? that was the only rejection that got under my skin. i'm a little tempted to email them the "but i got invited to X Y and Z programs..." but then i kick back and let fate drive.

speaking of cleveland, metrohealth tomorrow. dinner in ... 40 minutes! 😱

 

[hermione]

that makes me, you, and some guy from cleveland.


are you interviewing at U Pitt? that was the only rejection that got under my skin. i'm a little tempted to email them the "but i got invited to X Y and Z programs..." but then i kick back and let fate drive.

speaking of cleveland, metrohealth tomorrow. dinner in ... 40 minutes! 😱

Big fat Pitt rejection here too. Whats funny is that they are supposedly taking all the WPH residents if need be. I wonder if that means the people who match this year as well? How bout that for a back door in?? (Not that I want to go there, but still....)

Yeah, you, me, a guy from Cleveland, some girl who's dad is an attending there, and the 56 other people they interviewed. I'm packing my stuff, in preparation for my pending move elsewhere. 😀

 

[Trisomy13]

I'm packing my stuff, in preparation for my pending move elsewhere. 😀

i hear that. i'm in cleveland now for a Metro interview, and it's cold as **** here.

maybe i should call USF and see if they have any dates left afterall. warm = good.

 

[GCS:3]

Just my opinion... AGH is far from malignant. 😎 For us ED guys anyway.

 

[hammertoe]

New update: I just got my hands on a leter written by the chair of West Penn to the entire hospital on the 18th stating that Feb. 1st will be the final date that the group will practice. He also said that the hospital will lose it's anesthesia program, as well as the pain felowship. One of the residents told me there is going to be a mandatory meeting with GME to discuss placement issues. I also heard more bad news. Another resident told me that Mercy's program was in jeopardy as well and the whole hospital is ready for bankrupsy. Looks like UPMC is going to run the world after all. This blows for me because they didn't show me no love. 😡

 

[Trisomy13]

New update: I just got my hands on a leter written by the chair of West Penn to the entire hospital on the 18th stating that Feb. 1st will be the final date that the group will practice. He also said that the hospital will lose it's anesthesia program, as well as the pain felowship. One of the residents told me there is going to be a mandatory meeting with GME to discuss placement issues. I also heard more bad news. Another resident told me that Mercy's program was in jeopardy as well and the whole hospital is ready for bankrupsy. Looks like UPMC is going to run the world after all. This blows for me because they didn't show me no love. 😡

so what you are saying is....


hello cleveland. go Browns!



👎



so i guess i can go ahead and free up that saturday instead of interviewing there.

 

[Trisomy13]

Just my opinion... AGH is far from malignant. 😎 For us ED guys anyway.

the $25 cover at the halloween party was malignant for a broke student like me

 

[14970]

Hmm... I thought they were going to make the final decision within two weeks of Feb 1st. I haven't received any further information from the program and the residency coordinator isn't clear about what's going on. Anyone else know what's up with West Penn lately?

New update: I just got my hands on a leter written by the chair of West Penn to the entire hospital on the 18th stating that Feb. 1st will be the final date that the group will practice. He also said that the hospital will lose it's anesthesia program, as well as the pain felowship. One of the residents told me there is going to be a mandatory meeting with GME to discuss placement issues. I also heard more bad news. Another resident told me that Mercy's program was in jeopardy as well and the whole hospital is ready for bankrupsy. Looks like UPMC is going to run the world after all. This blows for me because they didn't show me no love. 😡

 

[hermione]

I heard of that letter too, but I don't know how factual all the info is. They are still interviewing, and I think still holding out hope that the hospital will cave once they realize how expensive it will be to replace them.

Whats up with Mercy? I haven't heard that rumor!

 

[Trisomy13]

Whats up with Mercy? I haven't heard that rumor!

Seriously. I heard this rumor from a fellow classmate earlier yesterday and it was news to me. Then I came home to read it here, so I'm starting to think there might be something to it.

So maybe I will call Pitt afterall and grovel a little.

 

[Ahh...The Life]

If you want to know what is going on... Ask people DIRECTLY. I emailed the Program and got a response from the PD. He was clear that the Group and Residency are GONE as things stand today. He was also clear that he and his partners expect the hospital NOT to be able to replace them and that By Feb 1st they expect a deal to be made and everything to work out with the Residency.

Until a deal is struck between the group and hospital...

NO NEW DEAL = NO GROUP = NO RESIDENCY = NO FELLOWSHIP PROGRAM

Unless someone has a letter from the Board of Directors stating their intentions, then none of this is NEWS.

I posted parts of the email I received DIRECTLY from the PD. Please post quotes you are sure of and not rumors...

 

[hermione]

If you want to know what is going on... Ask people DIRECTLY. I emailed the Program and got a response from the PD. He was clear that the Group and Residency are GONE as things stand today. He was also clear that he and his partners expect the hospital NOT to be able to replace them and that By Feb 1st they expect a deal to be made and everything to work out with the Residency.

Until a deal is struck between the group and hospital...

NO NEW DEAL = NO GROUP = NO RESIDENCY = NO FELLOWSHIP PROGRAM

Unless someone has a letter from the Board of Directors stating their intentions, then none of this is NEWS.

I posted parts of the email I received DIRECTLY from the PD. Please post quotes you are sure of and not rumors...

I fully apreciate you posting what was sent to you by the PD. Please keep in mind, however, that the group and the hospital are playing a game with eachother. Each is stating what they want the public to know and to think. I don't think that a letter from the PD to a prospective resident who they don't know from Adam is nescesarily the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. It is all very much a political game right now. And I LIKE hearing the "rumors" from AGH, Trisomy, so please keep posting them. I think that they may in fact be more honest and more reflective of what is going on than the "official" letters and newspaper articles.

 

[Trisomy13]

If you want to know what is going on... Ask people DIRECTLY. I emailed the Program and got a response from the PD. He was clear that the Group and Residency are GONE as things stand today. He was also clear that he and his partners expect the hospital NOT to be able to replace them and that By Feb 1st they expect a deal to be made and everything to work out with the Residency.

Until a deal is struck between the group and hospital...

NO NEW DEAL = NO GROUP = NO RESIDENCY = NO FELLOWSHIP PROGRAM

Unless someone has a letter from the Board of Directors stating their intentions, then none of this is NEWS.

I posted parts of the email I received DIRECTLY from the PD. Please post quotes you are sure of and not rumors...

Chill bro.

When I interviewed for medical school at the former "Allegheny University of the Health Sciences" in Philadelphia in 1997, I received in my packet an official letter from the Dean reassuring everyone that there is no danger of the school facing any instability, despite the rumors of finanical scandal, etc.

And I think we all know how that played out.

Hermione makes an excellent point in that any "official statement" right now is still just part of the games being played between the dept and the hospital. A little informed speculation at this point is a reasonable alternative to just sitting back and believing everything that is formally released.

The last I heard from one of the residents a few days ago is that it is still up in the air, and the residents are probably going to be placed at Pitt, Mercy (?), and CWRU.

 

[hermione]

Chill bro.

When I interviewed for medical school at the former "Allegheny University of the Health Sciences" in Philadelphia in 1997, I received in my packet an official letter from the Dean reassuring everyone that there is no danger of the school facing any instability, despite the rumors of finanical scandal, etc.

And I think we all know how that played out.

Hermione makes an excellent point in that any "official statement" right now is still just part of the games being played between the dept and the hospital. A little informed speculation at this point is a reasonable alternative to just sitting back and believing everything that is formally released.

The last I heard from one of the residents a few days ago is that it is still up in the air, and the residents are probably going to be placed at Pitt, Mercy (?), and CWRU.

Trisomy, we seriously need to hang out some time.

 

[Trisomy13]

Trisomy, we seriously need to hang out some time.

Let's get together and protest in front of U Pitt.

 

[hermione]

Let's get together and protest in front of U Pitt.

 

[Ahh...The Life]

Clowns Bro...

Speculate with your buddy over beers during your protest. The bottom line is NO NEW DEAL = NO GROUP = NO RESIDENCY = NO FELLOWSHIP PROGRAM.

No kidding, the Hospital and Group are playing games? My point Tweedle Dee and Dumb is that "NO NEW DEAL = NO GROUP = NO RESIDENCY = NO FELLOWSHIP PROGRAM" is a reasonable truth and until "NO NEW DEAL = NO GROUP = NO RESIDENCY = NO FELLOWSHIP PROGRAM" changes, then you aren't going to know anything. SO, if you think about it between protests at schools that rejected you the PD stated simply the current truth... and that's all anyone can ask for until things change.

So, chill you two and have fun at Pitt, but don't stir the muck with rumors. Try to be mature.

 

[hammertoe]

I heard a rumor today that NO NEW DEAL = NO GROUP = NO RESIDENCY = NO FELLOWSHIP PROGRAM = WHAT AN dingus. I also heard a rumor that if you type in all caps that it will make you cool. So lets keep "stirring the muck" and maybe we'll actally get somewhere. Plus I enjoy watching "Tweedle Dee and Dumb" flirt. Nobody knows **** so rumors are all we have.

In other words....dude, don't take yourself so seriously! 😀

 

[Trisomy13]

Try to be mature.

sweet, sweet irony 🙂

no need to call names, buddy, we're just speculating over the fate of our program here. obviously if "NO GROUP, blah blah blah" occurs, then you're right.


does this mean you won't be joining us for drinks? just double up on your HTN meds and you can even shout a little at our "protest".

 

[Trisomy13]

... but don't stir the muck with rumors. Try to be mature.

yeah, um, posting rumors is baaaad right? 😱

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=3120212#post3120212

😱 😱 😱


now it's late, and i have to start making signs for all my west coast protests. watch out, stanford!

 

[hermione]

And again, I say... , or perhaps it should be "bro"....

Here's an idea. If you don't want to read our "rumors", stop checking the thread. I'm sure your friend the PD will run right home and shoot you off an email the second anything changes, anyway! For everyone else, keep posting what you hear. 🙄

 

[Ahh...The Life]

yeah, um, posting rumors is baaaad right? 😱

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=3120212#post3120212

😱 😱 😱


now it's late, and i have to start making signs for all my west coast protests. watch out, stanford!

Actually that link wasn't rumor. But, I hedge on the safe side. And seriously, if you Ladies or Gents (can't tell which you are...) don't want me drinking with you that's your decision. Seems you might be the type to only associate with like minded folks who all agree with each other. ... That's an insult in case you don't pick up on it sweety...

 

[Ahh...The Life]

And again, I say... , or perhaps it should be "bro"....

Here's an idea. If you don't want to read our "rumors", stop checking the thread. I'm sure your friend the PD will run right home and shoot you off an email the second anything changes, anyway! For everyone else, keep posting what you hear. 🙄

That is exactly what I meant when I said you girls are the type to only associate with like minded people who share all the same views. Funny, but Germany said the same thing to the Wrold in the late 1930's and early 1940's. Mind your own business if you don't like what's going on. I hope you pump out some of those ideas during your interviews... The Late, Right Honourable Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill (Past PM of GB) would be proud...