Health Care Bill Passage Pool

[CUninja]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Since there is a college bowl pool and fantasy football everywhere we look, why not a health care bill pool?

Compete for the praise and admiration of your SDN peers!!!! 🙂laugh:)

Assuming the health care bill passes (which is a good possibility at this point), what day will President Obama sign the bill into law?

(The substance of the bill is discussed in other threads. We don't need it here too.)

Background: The Senate is scheduled for a final vote on Dec 24th. The bill will have to be merged and then voted on by both the House and the Senate again. Then the president can sign it.

My guess is Friday, Feb 5th.

 

[Mariachi]

January 1st, 2012... when the world ends


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nnguyenc]

what is the health care reform bill?

 

[RockHardIce]

what is the health care reform bill?

👍

 

[Argentium]

April 1, 2010

 

[Quiksilver]

Ideally never. damn liberal democrats.... How do they propose we pay for this?

 

[nnguyenc]

Ideally never. damn liberal democrats.... How do they propose we pay for this?

increasing pharmacist's tax?

 

[IrishHammer]

Ideally never. damn liberal democrats.... How do they propose we pay for this?

You live in New York...you already know the answer to "How is the government gonna pay for this ****?"

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Ideally never. damn liberal democrats.... How do they propose we pay for this?

While the bill as written is a piece of ****, if we don't do something now, healthcare costs will balloon to 25% of GDP in 20 years. So how do you propose we pay for that, Mr. Smarty Man?

Well, the answer is that the Democrats and/or Republicans are in charge for the forseeable future. So we're hosed. I'm moving to Canada.

 

[Mariachi]

Ideally never. damn liberal democrats.... How do they propose we pay for this?

Eventually... raise taxes on the rich (households making more than 200K), raise taxes on so-called cadillac health plans (something like what a pharmacist might have), cut reimbursements to docs and hospitals. They tried doing all of the above in health care reform round 1 but failed. Round 2, when it becomes evident we can't pay for it, may force the above measures. What

 

[WVUPharm2007]

raise taxes on so-called cadillac health plans (something like what a pharmacist might have)

Is there a definition of this? A high-risk patient would require an expensive plan. Would they get taxed a great sum simply because they have a high-dollar disease state?

 

[Argentium]

Eventually... raise taxes on the rich (households making more than 200K), raise taxes on so-called cadillac health plans (something like what a pharmacist might have), cut reimbursements to docs and hospitals. They tried doing all of the above in health care reform round 1 but failed. Round 2, when it becomes evident we can't pay for it, may force the above measures. What

they're also taxing tanning salons 2b/yr 👍 the AMA convinced them not to tax plastic surgeries

 

[Mariachi]

raise taxes on so-called cadillac health plans (something like what a pharmacist might have)

Is there a definition of this? A high-risk patient would require an expensive plan. Would they get taxed a great sum simply because they have a high-dollar disease state?

No, "cadillac health plans" are simply plans that offer far above what the average joe would get. What "far above" means is a matter of interpretation but in the current health care debate pol's attached a dollar figure to it. Dems think such plans are evil because they encourage their benificiaries to get more health care and rack up more health bills. Whats ironic is that many union workers have such premo plans, which is why it was politically unfeasable for Dems to pass a tax. I would imagine that many pharmacists have such plans too, by virtue of the fact that they work for a hospital or HMO. In any case, this is one popular strategy to deal with the cost.

 

[Quiksilver]

You live in New York...you already know the answer to "How is the government gonna pay for this ****?"

I bought my lube already.

increasing pharmacist's tax?

Just in the nick of time for graduation.

While the bill as written is a piece of ****, if we don't do something now, healthcare costs will balloon to 25% of GDP in 20 years. So how do you propose we pay for that, Mr. Smarty Man?

Well, the answer is that the Democrats and/or Republicans are in charge for the forseeable future. So we're hosed. I'm moving to Canada.

Oh I agree the mess we got ourselves into is terrible. It should have never come to this. Unforunately this current bill was put together by law makers that have no idea how the current system works; its advantages and disadvantages. Health care reform does not stop and end with more people getting coverage. Whos going to pay for it? How is reimbursement going to work? Is there going to be tort reform as well? What about all the runaway costs with malpractice insurances, or drug or service costs? Will this be pinching our pockets too(on top of the taxes we face for being richer?) It seems this is a bubble gum patch on the dam without really fixing what is at the center of it. Whats to happen with pharmacy and the paycheck because to be honest, that does matter with all I owe.

 

[UArk2014]

Ideally never. damn liberal democrats.... How do they propose we pay for this?

House Bill - 5% surtax on household incomes of 1 million or more.

Senate Bill - tax on health plans with premium values above $23,000 (est) /year

Committee to manage medicare efficiency. Not only administratively, but also on duplicitous procedures and procedures that are more costly than necessary. (Sarah Palin calls two doctors reading the same MRI "rationing"... common sense calls it sound economics)
Community health centers and wellness clinics which are estimated to bring Medicaid and Medicare costs DOWN drastically by reducing the need for chronic illness treatment.

Fines for those who refuse coverage. This includes those who currently "gamble" on their good health, and then, when a catastrophic illness occurs that they cannot afford, their bills become part of the endless pool of "Unreimbursed care costs" which get passed on to all of us anyway.

Did you want an actual answer, or were you too busy carrying Rush Limbaugh's water to actually READ the bill?
Get this though your partisan skull: We are going to pay for the medical care of the poor unless we decide it's just ok for someone to die because they don't have enough money. The question is how to do this at the lowest cost to everyone else. Treating illness at early stages is ALWAYS cheaper, and people without a way to pay (insurance, medicare, medicaid) don't get preventative care. They get emergency/chronic care. You figure out a humane way to solve that problem without some type of universal/mandated coverage program and I'll run your campaign. Until then, do some research and stop towing the party line.

 

[aussiepharmer]

While the bill as written is a piece of ****, if we don't do something now, healthcare costs will balloon to 25% of GDP in 20 years. So how do you propose we pay for that, Mr. Smarty Man?

Well, the answer is that the Democrats and/or Republicans are in charge for the forseeable future. So we're hosed. I'm moving to Canada.

But doesn't Canada have higher(on average) tax rates(eg. income, sales, property) and cost of living than US already?

 

[aussiepharmer]

While the bill as written is a piece of ****, if we don't do something now, healthcare costs will balloon to 25% of GDP in 20 years. So how do you propose we pay for that, Mr. Smarty Man?

Well, the answer is that the Democrats and/or Republicans are in charge for the forseeable future. So we're hosed. I'm moving to Canada.

But doesn't Canada have higher(on average) tax rates(eg. income, sales, property) and cost of living than US already?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

But doesn't Canada have higher(on average) tax rates(eg. income, sales, property) and cost of living than US already?

Depends. The Canadian federal rate is 26% for the pharmacist pay range. The US rate is 28%. Plus social security. The provincial rates are typically higher than the state rates in the US. Keep in mind that the Canadians don't have the defense budget the US has. Sales taxes are higher, though. I think it's 13% in Ontario.

 

[Mariachi]

Ideally never. damn liberal democrats.... How do they propose we pay for this?

House Bill - 5% surtax on household incomes of 1 million or more.

Senate Bill - tax on health plans with premium values above $23,000 (est) /year

Committee to manage medicare efficiency. Not only administratively, but also on duplicitous procedures and procedures that are more costly than necessary. (Sarah Palin calls two doctors reading the same MRI "rationing"... common sense calls it sound economics)
Community health centers and wellness clinics which are estimated to bring Medicaid and Medicare costs DOWN drastically by reducing the need for chronic illness treatment.

Fines for those who refuse coverage. This includes those who currently "gamble" on their good health, and then, when a catastrophic illness occurs that they cannot afford, their bills become part of the endless pool of "Unreimbursed care costs" which get passed on to all of us anyway.

Did you want an actual answer, or were you too busy carrying Rush Limbaugh's water to actually READ the bill?
Get this though your partisan skull: We are going to pay for the medical care of the poor unless we decide it's just ok for someone to die because they don't have enough money. The question is how to do this at the lowest cost to everyone else. Treating illness at early stages is ALWAYS cheaper, and people without a way to pay (insurance, medicare, medicaid) don't get preventative care. They get emergency/chronic care. You figure out a humane way to solve that problem without some type of universal/mandated coverage program and I'll run your campaign. Until then, do some research and stop towing the party line.

I had thought the tax on premium health plans wasnt gonna make it. Wow its something like 40 percent in the senate bill. WTF, I thought we were supposed to encourage health care? In any case, as far as I can tell neither liberals nor conservatives are happy with the outcome nor does anybody actually believe "it can pay for itself." Thats just a two faced lie made possible by Enron style accounting tricks. Since we were originally talking about a betting pool, how about a bet on how long it will take before the program goes in the red and congress starts looking for more revenue sources (like cutting payments to hospitals). This bill has not dealt with the fundemental problem of innefficiency in our system... at all!!!!!! All that bull about CER wont make a dent. The bill will just add millions to the subsidized ensured and possibly even encourage many (esp the young) to foregoe insurance all together until they actually get sick. After all, the penalties are skimpy and coverage can't be denied. Single payer is looking better every day...

 

[homeslice]

Depends. The Canadian federal rate is 26% for the pharmacist pay range. The US rate is 28%. Plus social security. The provincial rates are typically higher than the state rates in the US. Keep in mind that the Canadians don't have the defense budget the US has. Sales taxes are higher, though. I think it's 13% in Ontario.

The US defense budget is ridiculous. I just read today that its about equal to the next 44 countries spending the most on defense combined. Why is this rarely brought up as a way to save money?

 

[Quiksilver]

House Bill - 5% surtax on household incomes of 1 million or more.

Senate Bill - tax on health plans with premium values above $23,000 (est) /year

Committee to manage medicare efficiency. Not only administratively, but also on duplicitous procedures and procedures that are more costly than necessary. (Sarah Palin calls two doctors reading the same MRI "rationing"... common sense calls it sound economics)
Community health centers and wellness clinics which are estimated to bring Medicaid and Medicare costs DOWN drastically by reducing the need for chronic illness treatment.

Fines for those who refuse coverage. This includes those who currently "gamble" on their good health, and then, when a catastrophic illness occurs that they cannot afford, their bills become part of the endless pool of "Unreimbursed care costs" which get passed on to all of us anyway.

Did you want an actual answer, or were you too busy carrying Rush Limbaugh's water to actually READ the bill?
Get this though your partisan skull: We are going to pay for the medical care of the poor unless we decide it's just ok for someone to die because they don't have enough money. The question is how to do this at the lowest cost to everyone else. Treating illness at early stages is ALWAYS cheaper, and people without a way to pay (insurance, medicare, medicaid) don't get preventative care. They get emergency/chronic care. You figure out a humane way to solve that problem without some type of universal/mandated coverage program and I'll run your campaign. Until then, do some research and stop towing the party line.

Fair enough you are right on a lot of things. Unfortunately, unlike an undergrad, I don't have much spare time to read a couple thousand page bill in a few days and get all the details out. In case you are new and naive, neither do the senators or representatives.
You seemed to avoid some of my points. A committee to decide what medicare covers. Man thats pretty broad and vague. In case you did not know about all these meaningless procedures and waste in the current health care system; physicians currently run these procedures and rack up costs, not to pad their pockets but rather protect our (because not only are they liable, but anyone else who was involved) asses. Mistakes in the medical field are not solved by hugs and i'm sorry balloons, they cost practitioners money and in some cases their licenses. Pharmacists are not immune to that. I'm sorry but I don't know of anyone considering this reform anywhere in the bill.
Or how about reimbursement to services provided. Year after year, my state has cut reimbursement for filling a prescription drug for medicaid. At one point it was AWP + a certain percent. Now years later, for every Rx you fill in my state for medicaid is AWP - 18-19%. You think pharmacy is the money train now? Do you really think drug stores are going to be able to afford to pay your 100k ***** when all scripts have the same reimbursement, and im not talking your corner mom and pop shop. Im talking about retail chains, how are they to make up the money they loose?
i'm not on any party line, I am about protecting my ass and my career because if I do not do it, someone will make my decisions and they won't be to my liking. This is not some pharmacy school interview answer. This is my livlihood and before you parade about how grand this all is, think about how this will effect YOU. I am not saying I don't want everyone to have health care, I am saying you can't rush this. A bunch of lawmakers in washington have no idea about health care, all they see and care about are dollar signs and cost containment is not the current best practice of health care dollars. Im sorry but you are so off base.

 

[UArk2014]

Fair enough you are right on a lot of things. Unfortunately, unlike an undergrad, I don't have much spare time to read a couple thousand page bill in a few days and get all the details out. In case you are new and naive, neither do the senators or representatives.
You seemed to avoid some of my points. A committee to decide what medicare covers. Man thats pretty broad and vague. In case you did not know about all these meaningless procedures and waste in the current health care system; physicians currently run these procedures and rack up costs, not to pad their pockets but rather protect our (because not only are they liable, but anyone else who was involved) asses. Mistakes in the medical field are not solved by hugs and i'm sorry balloons, they cost practitioners money and in some cases their licenses. Pharmacists are not immune to that. I'm sorry but I don't know of anyone considering this reform anywhere in the bill.
Or how about reimbursement to services provided. Year after year, my state has cut reimbursement for filling a prescription drug for medicaid. At one point it was AWP + a certain percent. Now years later, for every Rx you fill in my state for medicaid is AWP - 18-19%. You think pharmacy is the money train now? Do you really think drug stores are going to be able to afford to pay your 100k ***** when all scripts have the same reimbursement, and im not talking your corner mom and pop shop. Im talking about retail chains, how are they to make up the money they loose?
i'm not on any party line, I am about protecting my ass and my career because if I do not do it, someone will make my decisions and they won't be to my liking. This is not some pharmacy school interview answer. This is my livlihood and before you parade about how grand this all is, think about how this will effect YOU. I am not saying I don't want everyone to have health care, I am saying you can't rush this. A bunch of lawmakers in washington have no idea about health care, all they see and care about are dollar signs and cost containment is not the current best practice of health care dollars. Im sorry but you are so off base.

1. I haven't read all 2000 pages verbatim either. There are dozens of news articles with synopses on both plans.
2. So EVERY procedure ordered by every medicare billing physician is absolutely necessary to providing care AND protecting his/our ass? Sorry. That's "off base". I've heard countless interviews with doctors about routinely duplicating procedures because of a lack of access to results for the same procedure from a referring physician. There is waste in the system and there has been for decades. A new approach is necessary to lower costs, and a commission with this as it's sole purpose is long overdue. I happen to agree with you on malpractice reform, but only out of principal. The actual $$$ amount saved would be negligible. (less than 1% by the estimates I've read)
3. There is nothing "grand" about this bill. You won't find me "parading" until there is a universal health care system like every other industrialized nation on the planet, but "you can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."
4. "a bunch of lawmakers in washington" also don't know anything about hunting terrorists, building bridges, or educating children but we can't exactly have a new election every time a complex issue enters the legislative system. One of the guys who actually DOES know about healthcare, Howard Dean, MD favors universal healthcare modeled after Canadian and European systems. The AMA, who should know a little something about healthcare has endorsed this bill with the qualification that there is still work to be done to make it better. I tend to agree with them since at this point it is purely demagoguery to prattle on about universal healthcare as a realistic option.
5. "all they see and care about are dollar signs and cost containment is not the current best practice of health care dollars." I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Can you clarify? I'm still an undergrad. Remember?

 

[UArk2014]

The US defense budget is ridiculous. I just read today that its about equal to the next 44 countries spending the most on defense combined. Why is this rarely brought up as a way to save money?

because in today's pseudo-patriotic "teabagger" political climate, suggesting military budget cuts will get your name in the chorus of a Toby Keith song faster than you can say "terrorist fist-bump".

Apparently, it's better to have the coolest toys than the healthiest people.

 

[pinkpillowzz]

There are no answers for any questions asked in here. This country will simply collapse on its own in the future.