Heart Failure - Diary of a Third Year Medical Student

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Who the hell cares? What, you'd let yourself get kicked in the nards by an attending just because you're worried they'd side with him in court? In these newer days of concern with medical student abuse and whatnot, I'd actually likely go to the ED to be medically evaluated, call the student ombudsperson on the way there and fill out an official complaint. Back in the day when people didn't take this stuff seriously, it's my word vs his and I actually highly doubt anything would go to court in the first place. Either way, I'm not letting anyone physically assault me and get away with it.
Meaning you wouldn't be believed bc it's his word against yours. Kind of like shootings in the hood, and how no one wants to be thought of as a snitch even though many people saw who did it.
 
Lol if an attending did that to me, I'd tell them if they touched me again I'd break them in half and then report it and file charges. Would be stupid to retaliate though the first time as you're going to lose a lot of sympathy and etc from the people who would decide how stuff gets handled from there on out
 
I think some of us would have the opinion that you are desensitized with regards to this.

Fair enough. I admitted that I might be.

Making remarks about a young child as being "fourth generation Baywatch", whether naked or not, is borderline perverted. Doing so while prepping a vulnerable patient for an operation and adding remarks such as "I'd operate on her even if she wasn't cute, that's just the kind of guy I am" is extremely inappropriate. I think most of us are fortunate enough to have never witnessed this type of behavior but this type of language is absolutely reportable.

How is that comment sexual?

Couldn't it be that that comment was in fact an attempt to turn the conversation away from the child's appearance?[/QUOTE]
 
According to a section in Benjamin Lorr's recent book, Hell-Bent, increased room temperature correlates with improved physical performance of the body. Specifically, blood vessels dilate and tissue expands improving blood flow and distribution of oxygen throughout the body. This creates an overall sense of well-being. Additionally, other athletes have adopted the heat as a part of their training routine similar to the way some athletes practice at mile high altitudes to improve their ability to absorb oxygen.[22]Furthermore, some athletes and professional dancers claim to prefer Bikram Yoga, as proponents argue it has injury-healing, emotion-strengthening, toxin-flushing, weight-managing, and career-extending effects.[23]

Common suggested benefits may include enhanced strength, increased flexibility, improved posture, mental clarity, a balanced blood pressure and improved ability to concentrate.[citation needed] Other suggested benefits include the flushing of toxins and impurities from the body through hard work and sweat,[24] and Bikram claims specific poses can help clean out the veins and arteries.[25] :whoa:
 
Fair enough. I admitted that I might be.



How is that comment sexual?

Couldn't it be that that comment was in fact an attempt to turn the conversation away from the child's appearance?
[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Replace "wasn't cute" with "didn't have big breasts". Disgusting then?
 
According to a section in Benjamin Lorr's recent book, Hell-Bent, increased room temperature correlates with improved physical performance of the body. Specifically, blood vessels dilate and tissue expands improving blood flow and distribution of oxygen throughout the body. This creates an overall sense of well-being. Additionally, other athletes have adopted the heat as a part of their training routine similar to the way some athletes practice at mile high altitudes to improve their ability to absorb oxygen.[22]Furthermore, some athletes and professional dancers claim to prefer Bikram Yoga, as proponents argue it has injury-healing, emotion-strengthening, toxin-flushing, weight-managing, and career-extending effects.[23]

Common suggested benefits may include enhanced strength, increased flexibility, improved posture, mental clarity, a balanced blood pressure and improved ability to concentrate.[citation needed] Other suggested benefits include the flushing of toxins and impurities from the body through hard work and sweat,[24] and Bikram claims specific poses can help clean out the veins and arteries.[25] :whoa:
Oh believe me, all the yoga "woo" can get ridiculous. As a matter of fact, when my carpal tunnel was getting bad, one of the instructors told me that my "wrists were weak and that I needed to do *more* yoga". Uh no.

I like it because I see a distinct difference in muscle tone and my neck and back feel much better since I started doing it.
 
This kind of stuff still makes me crack up because it just shows some medical students are pretty much expert b*tches. I mean, somebody hit me in the knuckles with forceps while we closed up, let alone hard enough to cause knuckles to bleed? I would have told that assh*ole that I'm calling the police so they can take pictures of the wound and arrest him for assualt. Some attending kicked me in the balls? If it was in a room with witnesses, I would have called the cops. If we were by ourselves, I would have punched that prick in the face and we could sort it out in court.

Sorry, I put up with some crap but I'm not in deep enough to let people physically abuse me. Anybody who is drank too much of the Kool-Aid in my opinion.
I know this sounds stupid, but punching someone for kicking me in the balls might result in me being expelled for being unprofessional. so I wouldn't punch.
 
He seems insufferable
...and naive. Some things he's spot on with. Some things are things that aren't going to change. ...and others show a lack of life experience. What's wrong with discussing non-medical things in the hospital among coworkers? Is there really something wrong when a hospital employee or physician bypasses the medical students and residents? There's a privacy concern there considering that the more people involved, the more likely for loose lips.

...and different medications based on insurance, or lack there of? What's more important, prescribing the best medication, even if it will never be filled, or prescribing a medication that will work well enough that has a chance of actually being filled because the patient can afford it? (Of course this assumes that the prescribing physician actually talks with the patient regarding costs).
 
I rethought it...I'd probably just kick him in the balls too. Too embarrassing for him to bring up and wouldn't leave any telltale marks on me (e.g. no evidence). Tell the clerkship director afterwards I don't think we were getting along and I got lots of uncalled for comments from him, so if he tries to put "unprofessional" stuff on my evaluation, I already said something about it. Win-win.

Except when he/she says " X student kicked me in the balls(or lack-thereof lol)," and you get taken out of the hospital in handcuffs. There's literally no reason to retaliate, unless you at that moment feel significantly threatened. I guess that's a personal thing, but due to my personal stature vs the average physicians, if they crack me being pissed for some reason, I'm not going to feel actually threatened enough to try to harm them physically. If you're going to hit them just to "get back at them" or any crap like that, you're gonna get the short end, not them. This is true about any fight honestly. Hitting back is pretty much never going to help you legally and honestly should only be used to prevent significant harm/death.

Also, if it's a female attending that does it, good f*cking luck, you think about laying a hand on her, you're done.
 
I know this sounds stupid, but punching someone for kicking me in the balls might result in me being expelled for being unprofessional. so I wouldn't punch.
Yeah, I agree, I wouldn't punch either. I've gone through too much to be expelled for one tiny thing. It's just not worth it. I'd take getting kicked in the balls to get my degree.
 
Like I said, plenty of medical students are experts at being kicked around. The better thing to do would likely be what I said above with going for medical evaluation, verbalizing what happened to both the ED physicians and a representative from your school and documenting the whole thing immediately. Then we'll see who gets taken out of the hospital in handcuffs.

Are you really a medical student? If you think that kicking the attending in the balls is the appropriate reaction for them doing it to you, then you're basically asking for a free ticket to never come back to your school. There's literally no reason to, unless you feel threatened and that's somehow the best means to end the threat. If someone steals your car, do you steal theirs? No, you report it. It's not being an expert at being kicked around. Its not right for an attending to do that(obviously), but doing it back to them makes 0 sense. I'm EXTREMELY anti med school machine, but if I was an administrator, and I had a kid get kicked in the balls and then they did it right back to the attending, I'd think they were an idiot and want them gone as well. You get nothing out of doing it, besides " I showed you" to the doc. I'm pretty sure if this actually happened, it would be national news and that would be 10000x more damaging to their career than a kick. Once you do it back, you're both f*cked.
 
I rethought it...I'd probably just kick him in the balls too. Too embarrassing for him to bring up and wouldn't leave any telltale marks on me (e.g. no evidence). Tell the clerkship director afterwards I don't think we were getting along and I got lots of uncalled for comments from him, so if he tries to put "unprofessional" stuff on my evaluation, I already said something about it. Win-win.
Your clerkship director is not going to protect you by taking off comments, even if you tell them in advance.
 
Depends on the school so that's definitely not a universal statement.
Yes, of course it's not universal, but just bc you tell the clerkship director in advance, there is absolutely no guarantee that he will delete the comments said about you from your MSPE, since subjective evaluations are used to calculate your grade. The MSPE is a letter of evaluation not a recommendation.
 
Did you read my post before? Cause that's what I'm referencing.

"In these newer days of concern with medical student abuse and whatnot, I'd actually likely go to the ED to be medically evaluated, call the student ombudsperson on the way there and fill out an official complaint."

And yes, I'm really a medical student. Likely further along in medical school than you are unless you happen to be in your last year too.

I didn't mean that as an insult, I just meant like " are you actually considering the career ramifications this would have?" I just don't see what you get out of doing that, except " I showed him/her."
 
Look, third year sucks but this guy is being a bit melodramatic.

Can you even imagine this kid being your third year medical student? The sheer fact that he had multiple attendings/chiefs take him aside and tell him he was acting inappropriately should tell you that he's not telling you the whole truth. It wasn't just surgery that found his behavior inappropriate. Hell, he had the pediatrics attending take him aside. He is the combination of every annoying, sissy, idealistic, holier than thou, limp-wristed douche you've ever met. Even the pediatricians couldn't deal with him.
 
Look, third year sucks but this guy is being a bit melodramatic.

Can you even imagine this kid being your third year medical student? The sheer fact that he had multiple attendings/chiefs take him aside and tell him he was acting inappropriately should tell you that he's not telling you the whole truth. It wasn't just surgery that found his behavior inappropriate. Hell, he had the pediatrics attending take him aside. He is the combination of every annoying, sissy, idealistic, holier than thou, limp-wristed douche you've ever met. Even the pediatricians couldn't deal with him.
Or maybe he's the only one with humanism left in him. Did you even read the whole thing? I'm surprised you didn't go ahead and call him a ****** for good measure.
 
Qft.

Guys, next time you're wearing scrubs, just look down every now and again. You'll pretty much feel naked once you realize how visible things have been this whole time.
Don't people wear briefs?
 
Don't people wear briefs?
There's a pretty wide selection of male underwear out there. Boxer briefs tend to have a lot of flexibility in where things land- if it ends up in the wrong position, you're 90% visible. Briefs keep things in place but if you're well endowed you might as well be rocking a codpiece while your sperm count drops to near-zero. Boxers and going commando both basically have the same result- maximum freedom, maximum flopping about for the world to see. Choose wisely.
 
Never the good ones...

LOL. Truer words have never been spoken. Some of my male counterparts in residency had some really awkward locker room conversations with certain attendings before/after cases.

Worse, there's also the people (male and female) who wear scrub pants that are WAY too small. They are always the ones who stand in front of you while you are sitting.
 
LOL. Truer words have never been spoken. Some of my male counterparts in residency had some really awkward locker room conversations with certain attendings before/after cases.

Worse, there's also the people (male and female) who wear scrub pants that are WAY too small. They are always the ones who stand in front of you while you are sitting.
Did I ever tell you (and everyone else) about the PGY3 on Transplant?

So I'm the intern; our 3 had apparently put on some weight during residency but had neglected to upsize his scrubs.

This bothered the female attending quite a bit but she didn't want to embarrass him by saying something so asked me to.

That was fun, being the intern and approaching your senior resident to talk about the fact that his scrubs were so tight that it was distracting to the attendings (the nurses chimed in that it bothered them as well) and NOT in a good way.
 
Or maybe he's the only one with humanism left in him. Did you even read the whole thing? I'm surprised you didn't go ahead and call him a ****** for good measure.

No I read it but admittedly scanned the OBGYN part. I can think of a lot of 6 letter words to call him. He finds fault with everything. And how self righteous is this guy? Can you even imagine dealing with this guy in real life? It sounds like he was so self righteous that even his wife (?girlfriend) left him or maybe he just made her up to make it sound like third year was hard on other people and he wasn't just a massive *****.

He's all about the patients but even they don't like him. I find it funny that this guy had multiple evaluations talking about how poorly he connected with patients. And yet he's all about connecting with patients... Even they think he's annoying. It sounds like he couldn't connect with anyone during third year, including patients, and he washed out and ended up not doing a residency. No surprise there.

Is medical training tough? Yes. It's even worse when you find fault in absolutely everything.

This should have been called "Testicular failure: a self-righteous wuss' journey through third year"
 
I will admit that I didn't read any of the actual text because... well, ain't nobody got time for that. I think I got the gist looking over the comments in the thread here.

It's easy to dismiss these complaints with a comment like "a self-righteous wuss' journey through third year" a la @Instatewaiter above. Judging by the comments here, it seems like this guy probably did not act the most professionally. That being said, that in and of itself doesn't dismiss all of the complaints brought up by newbies (myself included) to the realities of clinical medicine. There are absolutely things that physicians do that are clearly inappropriate with respect to how they treat patients, their colleagues, and trainees. I've worked with some people that I feel confident in saying that there's no way in hell would I want them coming near me no matter how "great" of a physician they might be.

In my experience at least, it's been quite the shocker to see how Big Medicine is practiced. Patients are pretty much shoved through the system like cattle. Just as corporations refer to customers as "consumers" and not "people," we refer to people as "patients" and not... well, people. Medicine has been completely corporatized in the name of cost reduction, and that seems to necessarily result in the depersonalization of patients and viewing them as not much more than someone either costing dollars or giving us dollars. By no means am I saying that that aspect of healthcare isn't important - it is. But at the same time I think the institutionalization of care is leading to a loss of the human side of being a healthcare provider. I think that's unfortunate. Rather than dismissing them (us) as naive and clueless, perhaps it would be better to take the useful points they do offer and trying to incorporate those things into our practice - or at least being aware of the concerns they bring up.

Some smart dude/dudette - I don't remember who - said something to the effect that listening to the youth of society is critical to ensuring that we are always moving forward. By virtue of experience we become desensitized to what are some objectively unacceptable or, at the least, concerning practices. That doesn't make them any less deplorable, but we lose the motivation to respond to them because they are no longer emotionally meaningful. It is intellectually easy/lazy to dismiss an idea because of the messenger that brings it. It is hard to internalize what's being said and recognizing how the message may manifest in your own practice and dealings.

Just some random thoughts.
 
No I read it but admittedly scanned the OBGYN part. I can think of a lot of 6 letter words to call him. He finds fault with everything. And how self righteous is this guy? Can you even imagine dealing with this guy in real life? It sounds like he was so self righteous that even his wife (?girlfriend) left him or maybe he just made her up to make it sound like third year was hard on other people and he wasn't just a massive *****.

He's all about the patients but even they don't like him. I find it funny that this guy had multiple evaluations talking about how poorly he connected with patients. And yet he's all about connecting with patients... Even they think he's annoying. It sounds like he couldn't connect with anyone during third year, including patients, and he washed out and ended up not doing a residency. No surprise there.

Is medical training tough? Yes. It's even worse when you find fault in absolutely everything.

This should have been called "Testicular failure: a self-righteous wuss' journey through third year"

Yeah, despite the fact that I'm an egotistical surgeon 😉 the first thing I read was the peds section. It told me right away that he was never even going to give it a chance. All of his notions were completely pre-formed and his attitude insufferable from the first moment.
 
Don't people wear briefs?
You gotta hammock up.
4x18hammockup.jpg
 
No I read it but admittedly scanned the OBGYN part. I can think of a lot of 6 letter words to call him. He finds fault with everything. And how self righteous is this guy? Can you even imagine dealing with this guy in real life? It sounds like he was so self righteous that even his wife (?girlfriend) left him or maybe he just made her up to make it sound like third year was hard on other people and he wasn't just a massive *****.

He's all about the patients but even they don't like him. I find it funny that this guy had multiple evaluations talking about how poorly he connected with patients. And yet he's all about connecting with patients... Even they think he's annoying. It sounds like he couldn't connect with anyone during third year, including patients, and he washed out and ended up not doing a residency. No surprise there.

Is medical training tough? Yes. It's even worse when you find fault in absolutely everything.

This should have been called "Testicular failure: a self-righteous wuss' journey through third year"
Hopkins trained you well. 🙄 I think it's funny that you actually believe the attending's comment about how well he "connected" with patients vs. I don't know, what the actual patient thought themselves, just bc he refused to play Kabuki theater. Also, @Instatewaiter, he graduated with Honors from Tufts, and practices Family Medicine.
 
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Yeah, despite the fact that I'm an egotistical surgeon 😉 the first thing I read was the peds section. It told me right away that he was never even going to give it a chance. All of his notions were completely pre-formed and his attitude insufferable from the first moment.
Realize when he trained, MS-3s were not as "protected" on clinical rotations as they are now.
 
And as someone who has yet to even step foot into MS-1, you would be a good judge of that.

I would be, yes. Since I'm largely the target market for his book, as someone who hasn't gone through MS3, I am indeed a good judge of how well he gets his point across to his target market.
 
I would be, yes. Since I'm largely the target market for his book, as someone who hasn't gone through MS3, I am indeed a good judge of how well he gets his point across to his target market.
I was more referencing being a "tool" (as you said), rather than your ability to judge.

As a Medical student (Accepted) who has yet to even experience medical school (Yes, we know you're not a traditional premed and have such varied life experiences), much less MS-3, you have no basis on which to judge the accuracy of his observations. He also trained in an era in which medical students are nowhere close to being as protected as they are now.
 
I was more referencing being a "tool" (as you said), rather than your ability to judge.

As a Medical student (Accepted) who has yet to even experience medical school (Yes, we know you're not a traditional premed and have such varied life experiences), much less MS-3, you have no basis on which to judge the accuracy of his observations. He also trained in an era in which medical students are nowhere close to being as protected as they are now.

Indeed. Of course, I never said anything about the accuracy of his observations. I said he sounds like a tool.

I'm unsure if you actually read the posts, then make up the things that were in it, or if you skip the whole reading part and just imagine the post saying whatever is easiest to make fun of. It's a very interesting issue.
 
Indeed. Of course, I never said anything about the accuracy of his observations. I said he sounds like a tool.

I'm unsure if you actually read the posts, then make up the things that were in it, or if you skip the whole reading part and just imagine the post saying whatever is easiest to make fun of. It's a very interesting issue.
Nvm.
 
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It's interesting. This guy's writing/point of view is very similar to the "traumatized patient"/troll we had in the resurrection of that thread on Pelvic Exams under Anesthesia not so long ago. He views it as completely, 100% unethical and should never be done. Similarly, he bristles at being introduced as "Dr. Greger" before obtaining that degree, and also hates the concept that people have to learn to do a skill on patients.

Unfortunately, this line of thinking does have real consequences to medical education. I would argue it leads directly to the problem where medical students aren't allowed to do anything anymore on rotations, further delaying training until residency, and then more complaints from the medical hierarchy that interns are just not as good as they used to be.

I'm not sure how you strike that balance.
 
It's interesting. This guy's writing/point of view is very similar to the "traumatized patient"/troll we had in the resurrection of that thread on Pelvic Exams under Anesthesia not so long ago. He views it as completely, 100% unethical and should never be done. Similarly, he bristles at being introduced as "Dr. Greger" before obtaining that degree, and also hates the concept that people have to learn to do a skill on patients.

Unfortunately, this line of thinking does have real consequences to medical education. I would argue it leads directly to the problem where medical students aren't allowed to do anything anymore on rotations, further delaying training until residency, and then more complaints from the medical hierarchy that interns are just not as good as they used to be.

I'm not sure how you strike that balance.
Funny, I read it differently. I read it more as him being shell-shocked at the dehumanizing experience that MS-3 is. Not necessarily of doing things, per say, but the toxic work environment.
 
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