Hello

[NikkyZ]

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Hey, new to SDN and the pre-med world. I have a couple of questions about how to go about getting into medical school.

A little about me...

I've been pre-law almost my entire educational life. Always been good at english/social sciences/debate my whole life so it seemed a given to go to a UC and pursue a degree in economics with the intention of law school. Fast forward to my second year of undergrad, I realized that I did not want to spend 80 hours a week reading legal documents for the rest of my life to make a great (200K+) living. The only area of law that interests me is criminal prosecution, and the pay/hours/BS are NOT worth it to me. And while economics interests me, I don't want to pursue a career in academia or banking. So I dropped out of UC with a 3.8 and a fairly packed pre-law resume (usual clubs/activities stuff). I moved home to clear my head, get some work experience and savings saved up, etc.

So I got a job doing billing paperwork for a local pain management doc a family friend knew. It was mostly filing, scanning, etc, but when one of the techs quit the doc asked me if I minded blood and when I answered no, I donned my lead apron and started doing fluro/patient prep work. The doctor mostly does Epidural Steroid injects, Facet injections, etc., and the occasional SCS implant. Its been a few months and the work really fascinates me. One of the doctors who works for the head guy loves explaining procedures and quizzing me so I'm learning quite a bit.

So in short I've decided that medicine is the field for me. I love the intellectual diligence required to advance that far in your education. I love the idea of your job being helping others. I think the only reason it took me so long to come to this decision is my lack of preparation for the science and mathematical requirements of medical school. Have not taken a science class since high school (unless you count BS gen-ed classes like "history of earth" or "anthropology" but no bio/calc/chem/o-chem/phys.

I figure if I can get a 3.8 in easy liberal arts classes I should be able to hold a 3.5+ science and general GPA with sufficient work, and with sufficient prep get a respectable MCAT. I test fairly well, with 2020 SAT/32 ACT/8 4 or 5 AP scores/165 LSAT diagnostic.


Wow I wrote a ****ing novel..I guess my questions are:

1. Does my work experience at the PM office help me at all?

2. With a good/great LOR/LOI from one of the docs here, how realistic would it be for me to get a job/internship at either a hospital or private practice near wherever I finish my UG degree?

3. I'm awaiting transfer decisions from NYU (I want to live/work in NYC), but if a no will be returning to my UC (I left in good standing) to finish my degree. I'm set on economics, so would it be possible to finish ALL (phys/bio/chem/o-chem/electives) of my academic requirements at a post-bacc program assuming I take calculus at some point before I graduate?

4. Is this the best option or should I do a super-senior or 6th year at my UG to wrap up all the pre-reqs?

5. Assuming I cannot undertake scientific research at the post-bacc, would liberal arts research be of any value to admissions?

6. Assuming I can get a job/internship at a hospital how important would it be for me to undertake volunteering (I currently have no volunteering experience)

7. Are ECs unrelated to medicine/hard sciences (for instance, leadership in a student lobbing group or participation in Student Government) be of admissions value?

Any others advice would be greatly appreciated. And thanks if you read this far!

 

[specter]

I don't know for sure the answers to all your questions, so I'll let someone else pick those up.

1) Your work experience in the PM office will be great. It both introduced you to the field and gave you a contact from whom you might get an LoR

2) I'm not sure what kind of job you'd get at a doctor's office...aside from clerical work, there isn't a whole lot of actual paid work you can do in a hospital setting without some sort of medical licensing. Most people simply do shadowing or volunteer in clinical settings to build up experience

5) I hear any sort of research is valued. I'm not sure if science-related research is valued more than liberal arts research...but at the very least it will count for something, and it will make unique since I imagine most applicants haven't done something like that.

6) Volunteer experience is pretty important. Admissions committees want some evidence that you have something of a humanitarian mindset, in addition to your academic strength. The volunteer work doesn't have to be in a clinical setting, it can be any sort of community work. You just need to show that you are altruistic in some way.

7) Absolutely. You want to show that you are well-rounded.

 

[Frazier]

You wrote a lot and I didn't read more than the first couple lines before I knew what I wanted to say.

"I've been pre-law..."

So I am assuming the rest of your post is that you are switching to pre-med.

Good idea. Bravo. Law stinks!👍

 

[mspeedwagon]

That's a lot of one post, but I'll try and helpful by answering your questions.

1. Does my work experience at the PM office help me at all?
1. Yes, but not to a very large degree. It's great experience, and it's good to be exposed to medicine. The important thing is that you continue to volunteer/shadow and show a continual interest. The greatest benefit of it is that it got you interested in a career in medicine.

2. With a good/great LOR/LOI from one of the docs here, how realistic would it be for me to get a job/internship at either a hospital or private practice near wherever I finish my UG degree?
2. You might be able to get a part-time job, but this is highly unlikely. There are so many pre-meds that it is nearly impossible to even volunteer your time at most hospitals. Paid work is pretty much not a reality unless you gain some certifications (CNA, phelbotomy) and even then, it's a crap-shoot. Focus on trying to volunteer and shadow instead.

3. I'm awaiting transfer decisions from NYU (I want to live/work in NYC), but if a no will be returning to my UC (I left in good standing) to finish my degree. I'm set on economics, so would it be possible to finish ALL (phys/bio/chem/o-chem/electives) of my academic requirements at a post-bacc program assuming I take calculus at some point before I graduate?
3. I'd take at least the g-chem sequence while you are still in school. I'm not a big fan of doing a post-bac of all classes. I don't know what classes you can and cannot take, but I'd aim for the g-chem sequence and calculus. This will allow you to finish a post-bac in one more year (physics, orgo and bio). Also, NYU is way more expensive than a UC so unless you are getting signficant aid, it's not worth the transfer.

4. Is this the best option or should I do a super-senior or 6th year at my UG to wrap up all the pre-reqs?
4. This won't make much of a difference. I'd add on a year and try to finish the requirements personally, but not a big deal either way.

5. Assuming I cannot undertake scientific research at the post-bacc, would liberal arts research be of any value to admissions?
5. This depends on speciality. Honestly, I'm not a fan of lab research (hate working in the lab), but have tons of clinical research experience. If you are interested in primary care or more general specialities, I don't think your lack of research will be a big deal. Of course, if you want to do an MD/PhD then you have no hope without research.

6. Assuming I can get a job/internship at a hospital how important would it be for me to undertake volunteering (I currently have no volunteering experience)
6. EXTREMELY. This is probably the most important part of your application (aside from MCAT/GPA/Personal statement).

7. Are ECs unrelated to medicine/hard sciences (for instance, leadership in a student lobbing group or participation in Student Government) be of admissions value?
7. Yes, anything with leadership will further your application. Good to have under your belt, as are all your pre-law activities.

Any others advice would be greatly appreciated. And thanks if you read this far!
You are basically starting with a blank slate. You can either make yourself a stellar applicant or kill your chances. In order of importance:
1. GPA, GPA... you have a great one. Aim to maintain it with science classes (most As).
2. MCAT... when the time comes, study a lot. Treat it like a job.
3. ECs... why medicine? show them with activities. Can you lead? leadership positions etc.
4. Personal statement: keep this in the back of your mind as you move along. Jot down why medicine?
5. Have fun. I think this aspect is often overlooked, but with a more balanced lifestyle the pre-med requirements and courseload is a ton of fun, along with frat parties or whatever your social scence may be. The basic sciences are interesting and you learn a lot, but equally important is to establish a good peer group and have fun while in school.

 

[TexasMDtobe]

1. Your work in the PM office is of course good to list on your application as experience, but its best use may be in your personal statement as the turning point that changed your life's goal from from law to medicine.

2. Clinical work in a hospital/private office is near impossible to obtain without the correct certifications. However, work in a hospital/office is possible in the clerical/registration/financial aspect, often with lots of patient contact, albeit in a non-clinical role.

3./4. Chosen major seems to be irrelevant in admission decisions, but I would suggest just tacking on the pre-req classes to your undergrad degree. Complete them as you finish the requirements for your economics degree. Less paperwork and headaches than finishing school and then applying to some other school for either a formal or informal post-bacc sequence.

5. Schools generally look for their applicants to find something they care passionately about (whether medicine/science related or not) and pursue it with everything they have. This holds true for volunteering experiences and research. Of course, some big medical-research focused med schools look for science-specific research, but most other schools just want you to demonstrate a passion for what you do, in whatever field it is.

6. Volunteering is essential. Contact a hospital, or clinic, or hospice, and start volunteering a few hours per week. The hospitals and hospices usually have volunteer coordinators that will be eager for your help. Aim for longevity of participation, showing dedication to whatever endeavor you choose. Contact several doctors of different specialties (besides the doctor for whom you worked) and try to shadow them a few times. The schools want to know you are going into medicine with your eyes open to its realities and culture.

7. ECs unrelated to medicine/science are valuable as well, particularly leadership roles. Employment-related leadership is also a plus.

Between the volunteering, shadowing, research (in whatever field you choose), and other ECs you will have an application that demonstrates your exposure and dedication to medicine. Knock out those pre-reqs with mostly A's and nail the MCAT with a 30+ and you should have an excellent shot. Look at the AAMC's "Medical School Admission Requirements" (MSAR) book as it outlines the application process and lists the average scores and grades for each allopathic medical school in the country.

Of course, I speak only from my experiences in Texas. I understand that California med school admissions are incredibly more competitive, so tweak this info to your situation. Good luck to you. . .

 

[mspeedwagon]

TexasMDtobe, your post looks strangely similar to mine (actually almost identical). It's good to see we agree.

OP, I wanted to add to my post. First, 30 is not great for CA; at a minimum 32 if you would like to stay in CA (sucks to be a CA resident for med school purposes).

Second, there's a poster, Dr. MidLife, who often posts in the non-trad forum. She often says that if you would be happier doing anything else, then do it. Medicine is a huge commitment, and I strongly advise exposure to other fields. To give you and idea, I've worked as a public school teacher in the inner-city, an investment banker, a clinical research coordinator in a hospital and a clinical research monitor doing FDA auditing. After exposure to all those fields, and pulling in a lot of money, I realize I don't see myself doing anything but medicine. I think this advice is the best I've gotten from sdn.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I agree with the above except I'd like to point out that for most people, "clinical" volunteering is crap. Yeah, you need some sort of volunteer work for your application, you need some clinical experience, and volunteering in a hospital is an easy way to get both at the same time. If you're strapped for time, that's absolutely what you should stick with. If you're interested in actually getting clinical experience, you'll need a job. Yes, you will need to get certified for whatever you want to do, but certification often requires little more than a week of training. As someone here once explained, nobody gives a damn about volunteers. You're free labor, so anything positive you do is a bonus. If you're an employee, your employer has incentive to train you and get you involved. I realize there are people around here who were essentially really young medical students during their volunteer gigs, but that is definitely not the norm.

I realize the job market has changed dramatically since I was looking for my entry-level clinical position, but I ran across plenty of places that were willing to train and certify me on the job. I can't speak to how available these jobs are, but I'd wager that characterizing your chances of finding one as "highly unlikely" is overstating the situation considerably.

 

[mspeedwagon]

If possible, it's best to volunteer and take on part-time work. No matter what though, make sure to volunteer. I talked to a few adcoms about my application, and that was their number one recommendation (I figured I could go light on this area since I had worked in a clinical research setting for three years with direct patient contact, but apparently not). This advice is specific to the California schools.

Here is a post on my background if you are interested: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=712153

I was told basically to do some GPA damage repair (bring my science GPA to 3.5), score as high as possible on the MCAT (33+) and add volunteer experience by said adcoms (at UC schools). Again, this is advice specific to getting into a UC medical school.

Also, I sort of assumed you were at UC Berkeley (possibly incorrectly) and if so, then I actually don't think hired work is very likely. I actually think volunteer opportunities will be hard to come by. I work in the area of UC Berkeley and I've worked with many of the hospitals here (given my job as a clinical research monitor). Hiring of entry-level candidates at the moment is non-existent. If you are not in the Bay Area, then your odds are probably good to be hired.

I agree with the above except I'd like to point out that for most people, "clinical" volunteering is crap. Yeah, you need some sort of volunteer work for your application, you need some clinical experience, and volunteering in a hospital is an easy way to get both at the same time. If you're strapped for time, that's absolutely what you should stick with. If you're interested in actually getting clinical experience, you'll need a job. Yes, you will need to get certified for whatever you want to do, but certification often requires little more than a week of training. As someone here once explained, nobody gives a damn about volunteers. You're free labor, so anything positive you do is a bonus. If you're an employee, your employer has incentive to train you and get you involved. I realize there are people around here who were essentially really young medical students during their volunteer gigs, but that is definitely not the norm.

I realize the job market has changed dramatically since I was looking for my entry-level clinical position, but I ran across plenty of places that were willing to train and certify me on the job. I can't speak to how available these jobs are, but I'd wager that characterizing your chances of finding one as "highly unlikely" is overstating the situation considerably.