Help! Am I not understanding financial aid?

[abcehmu]

Looking for somebody a little more informed on the topic to help me out here....

After attending several financial aid presentations at interviews, I’ve come away with this basic understanding of how need-based financial aid (not taking merit aid into account) works for poorer applicants:

1. Medical School Cost – Expected Contribution = Need.
2. Up to a certain amount, this Need is met with Loans (depends on school, but generally between 20K-30K a year). If there is still an outstanding Need not met by these loans, grants and scholarships come into play.

If this is true (I may have misunderstood) wouldn’t it also be true that comparing 1 (state school) and 2 (private school):

1. Medical School Cost at a cheaper State School (less)- Expected Contribution (same) = less need.
2. Medical School Cost at a more expensive Private School (more)- Expected Contribution (same) = more need.

If you are poor enough that even at a state school the 20K-30K/year in Loans isn’t enough to cover the need, then you would be left with an outstanding need to be met by grants and scholarships at both schools, this would be lower at the state school compared to the private school. In turn, the state school would give you less in grants and scholarships than the private school, and in effect not be any cheaper for you.

If you are qualified enough to get into a private school with need blind, need based financial aid, and also on the poorer end of the spectrum, it seems that state schools will be no cheaper for you than good (and relatively wealthy) private med schools. Is this true?

I’m from New York, and these suspicions seemed to be confirmed by US News numbers putting the average indebtedness of the SUNYs as comparable to that of some private medical schools.

Any input or information would be appreciated. I realize this is not the most entertaining thread to read/respond to. (Sorry!)

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[little_late_MD]

Actually scholarships and grants are independent of the need of the applicant (at almost all universities). After these are deducted from the total amount owed, then the loans come in. You can take out a huge sum in loans. Don't worry about not getting enough to cover tuition, housing, etc.

State schools are usually cheaper than private schools, as the state legislature subsidizes this education. I live in Florida, and all of the state schools here are significantly cheaper than the privates. As to why the average indebtedness of a SUNY student is more than an equitable student in private school, I really couldn't say.

If you are accepted to a school, and that is the school you want to go to, don't worry about the financial aid. That department's entire mission is to find you money for school, and they will do it. I have never heard of someone not being able to find enough in loan money to go to school.

 

[abcehmu]

Actually scholarships and grants are independent of the need of the applicant (at almost all universities).

I thought that at schools that have "need-based" financial aid, the ONLY thing that matters is the need, and that grants and scholarships are part of this "need based" financial package. I know that most schools may not have need based financial aid, but many of the top schools in the country, especially the ones with deep pockets, do have need based financial aid.

 

[little_late_MD]

Actually scholarships and grants are independent of the need of the applicant (at almost all universities).

I thought that at schools that have "need-based" financial aid, the ONLY thing that matters is the need, and that grants and scholarships are part of this "need based" financial package. I know that most schools may not have need based financial aid, but many of the top schools in the country, especially the ones with deep pockets, do have need based financial aid.

Generally scholarships are not need-based, but merit-based. There may be need-based scholarships, but those are a separate beast and do not affect your chances at a merit-based scholarship. However, at top school competition is fierce, and merit based scholarships are difficult to attain. To recieve a grant, you have to meet certain criteria. I'm sure that there are a few grants that are based on income level, but these are by far the minority. I recieved several grants that had nothing to do with my need. I think that your best bet is to call the Financial Aid office of the schools you're interested in, and see what kinds of packages they put together for students similar to you. Whatever that happens to be, count on your package consisting of a large amounts of loans, as many of the top schools are drying up in terms of the free money they're giving away.

 

[Em1]

My parents are claiming me as a dependent for 2005 (but won't be for 2006), and the government thinks they can pay for ALL of what med school will cost for a year, but they aren't gonna pay for any of it.

Will I have 0 need since I'll have a big expected family contribution? In this case, how do I get loans?

Will I eventually (like for 2nd year) be considered on my own and have an expected contribution of next to nothing, since I'll be making next to nothing?

 

[anoz]

My parents are claiming me as a dependent for 2005 (but won't be for 2006), and the government thinks they can pay for ALL of what med school will cost in a year, but they aren't gonna pay for any of it.

Will I have 0 need since I'll have a big expected family contribution? In this case, how do I get loans?

Will I eventually (like for 2nd year) be considered on my own and have an expected contribution of next to nothing, since I'll be making next to nothing?

The private/public school indebtedness conundrum does not surprise me. That need-based financial is dependent on the endowment of the particular school you are attending, so private schools rake in the bucks from private donations and are able to subsidize poorer applicants that are admitted. As an undergraduate, I attended a small liberal arts college, but because of my parent's income graduated with about $10k in debt. I later did a post-bac at my state school and have incurred an additional $20k in only 2 years! The private schools are able to kick you a few bucks more, but charge you more; in NY, you seem to come out about even indebtedness in private/public unless you are a wealthier applicant (and then you would pay more at the private school).

As for your parents contribution and assessment of need, I am also a little confused. I'm clearly not a dependent of my parents at 28, however, AMCAS does not calculate the Fee Assistance Program w/out your parents tax returns, i.e. they assume they will contribute regardless of your age. Does this apply to FAFSA as well? I'm inclined to think no (but wouldn't be surprised to be wrong) since I've never heard of other graduate programs assessing need the same way.

Anyone out there with a clear answer?

 

[DeadorAlive]

My understanding is that FAFSA does consider your family contribution as if your parents are helping regardless of age, marital status, length of time you've lived on your own, etc.

I could be wrong, this is my understanding from financial aid presentations. Different schools may have different policies for their own institutional loans.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

My understanding is that FAFSA does consider your family contribution as if your parents are helping regardless of age, marital status, length of time you've lived on your own, etc.

I could be wrong, this is my understanding from financial aid presentations. Different schools may have different policies for their own institutional loans.

Different schools do have different policies. The general rule for graduate school is that you're considered an independent regardless of age, so your parents income should not factor into the amount you are estimated to be able to pay. Schools ask for parental income, and they do use to assess things like institutional loans and grants. For the purposes of the fafsa's calculatation of need, though, your parents' income won't be considered. So, no, they're not going to come back and say you can't get the maximum amount in staffords because your parents can help you out.

 

[Darth Asclepius]

Different schools do have different policies. The general rule for graduate school is that you're considered an independent regardless of age, so your parents income should not factor into the amount you are estimated to be able to pay. Schools ask for parental income, and they do use to assess things like institutional loans and grants. For the purposes of the fafsa's calculatation of need, though, your parents' income won't be considered. So, no, they're not going to come back and say you can't get the maximum amount in staffords because your parents can help you out.

This is correct. Your parents' income can influence the amount of aid you get from the school (grants/scholarships), but as a med student you are considered independent no matter what.

Also, to the OP, you've got it backwards. Expected family contribution will not affect the amount you can borrow in loans. Your school will set a budget that they allow (tuition, fees, books, equipment, allowance for rent, transportation, food, utilities, etc). This is the amount you are "allowed" to borrow. So you take that amount, subtract any scholarships/grants and what you are left with is what you can borrow. If that amount is more than you are allowed each year in federal loans, you will have to find private loans. Also, if you wish to borrow more than the allowed amount (don't want to live with a roommate, have dependents, expensive prescriptions, pets, hobbies, etc), you will have to get private loans for the amount above the school's allowed amount. Nobody is guaranteed scholarships or grants. Many students pay for school almost exclusively with loans.

 

[abcehmu]

This is the sense that I am getting too.

 

[javert]

I can only speak for my experience but my school gave me a large chunk of financial aid, ALL need based, not merit! Despite the fact that my school cost over 20k more a year than the state school I applied to, the need based money made it cheaper for me to attend my private school.... (of course, my state school called up and offered me some money to lead me astray but it wasn't so enticing to make much of a difference per year...) My theory is that private schools have more funding to give out need based money whereas state schools don't... of course, I can only speak from my experience... (If you're curious, my school is Penn and my state school is RWJ... (I'm on my bf's sdn username) )

 

[abcehmu]

thanks javert.......was it just UPenn giving you more aid than your state or was the same true for other well endowed privates.

(yes, I realize how strange those last three words read).

 

[MollyMalone]

thanks javert.......was it just UPenn giving you more aid than your state or was the same true for other well endowed privates.

(yes, I realize how strange those last three words read).

I was shocked when I found out that I would need to submit my parent's info to some schools... at 31, I had thought that was all behind me!

 

[javert]

thanks javert.......was it just UPenn giving you more aid than your state or was the same true for other well endowed privates.

(yes, I realize how strange those last three words read).

i couldn't really tell you but it seems at least at penn a trend for them to negotiate with you.. some of my friends wanted more money and told penn so and they were willing to accomodate within reason... the money i got from penn, however, was just given to me based on fin need.... and it was niceee

 

[atrovariousg]

You guys REALY need to talk to some financial aid people at one of your interviews. No one has anything to worry about. With the propper documentation (providing you don't claim to have a trust fund or a deep savings account) you will be offered more money than you need. Doctors graduate with 150 to 200k in debt because they are offered more than they need, not the other way around.

Don't sweat it, this isn't like undergrad.