Help! I'm applying to Columbia Post Bac for spring 2008!

[singinggal]

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Hello hello-


I need help!


I am preparing my postbac premed application and essay for spring 2008. I have a few questions about the application. I noticed on the application that it asks if the applicant has attended an information session. I have not attended yet, but I am scheduled to attend on September 19th. Should I say in the blank that I will be attending on September 19th, say no that I have not attended, or should I wait until after I attend to submit my application? I seem to keep reading that anyone pretty much gets accepted as long as they had at least 3.0 gpa during undergraduate. Is this really true? Also, does anyone have any pointers for my application or are there any strategies that I should use? Any advice anyone could give me would be wonderful and much appreciated. I really want to be accepted!



Here's a little info on me before anyone answers... I graduated from a private high school with a 4.2 gpa. I graduated from a non-Ivy school with a 3.4 gpa in Music Performance with a vocal emphasis. I haven't had chemistry or physics since high school (ten years ago), and I just had biology I and II for non-majors and forensic integrated science in college. I have not taken the GRE yet.


Thanks all!

 

[oneandonlylo]

OK, first off, relax, because your stats etc sound fine. I would submit your application when its ready (don't wait until after the info session). Writing that you have not yet attended an info session or that you intend to in the future is fine also (they are probably just checking if they have your name in their system somewhere would be my guess.)

I believe in general most students with a 3.0 or higher are admitted, but either way your GPA etc seems to be more than sufficient to prove that you can handle the coursework. Write a good essay (be yourself, express what makes you an individual etc.) and get some good letters of reccommendation. My only suggestion would be that they would probably like to see some indication that you are actively pursing a future in medicine. Although you cannot necessarily accomplish this before you submit your application, I would indicate that you intend to pursue some medical volunteer work or doctor shadowing etc. before you begin classes in the spring.

Again, my greatest advice would be to be yourself. Postbaccs have a high success rate in med school admission because they are unique and stand out from the pack. Columbia wants to put its name behind individuals that they believe stand a strong chance to gain acceptance. As a result, they select for people who break the mold a little (or a lot as the case may be.) Your background sounds interesting enough, so let it shine.

 

[cyperalz]

Hi guys,

As per archived files, the acceptance rate at Columbia seems pretty high ("accepts anyone w/ a 3.0 GPA or higher). I'm also wondering if this is true!

Also I've taken everything so far except Orgo, however I would like to take the Chem, Physics, and Bio over again since I took those courses 5 years ago. I have a 3.4 undergrad GPA, 2 years of scientific research experience, some publications, and about to complete a MPH.

What do you guys think are my chances of getting into Columbia's postbac premed program? I don't see why I wouldn't be accepted, except for the fact that I already took Chem, Bio, and Physics (which I mentioned I would like to take over again since its been ages).

Thanks.

 

[postbacker]

Hi guys,

As per archived files, the acceptance rate at Columbia seems pretty high ("accepts anyone w/ a 3.0 GPA or higher). I'm also wondering if this is true!

Also I've taken everything so far except Orgo, however I would like to take the Chem, Physics, and Bio over again since I took those courses 5 years ago. I have a 3.4 undergrad GPA, 2 years of scientific research experience, some publications, and about to complete a MPH.

What do you guys think are my chances of getting into Columbia's postbac premed program? I don't see why I wouldn't be accepted, except for the fact that I already took Chem, Bio, and Physics (which I mentioned I would like to take over again since its been ages).

Thanks.

Some formal post baccs do not allow retaking of any pre-reqs, particularly for applicants trying to improve poor grades (and some post baccs are specifically designed to raise low GPAs)...some will only admit you to their program if you have taken no more than one pre req class...some if not most will allow you to retake classes, though, taken at least 5 years prior...your best source of info for these questions is the post bacc itself, not the SDN rumor mill...

It sounds like what you need to do is take Organic in an informal post bacc, study for and take the MCAT, and then apply to med school and/or an SMP...

Finally, I would not interpret the 3.0 GPA as anything other than the minimum acceptable and compound your confusion by extrapolating that the acceptance rate is "pretty high" (see below) - I seriously doubt that they routinely accept applicants with that low of a GPA - more relevant: what is their average GPA for admitted applicants? Just an educated guess, but probably 3.5 or higher (read their admissions page and they cite that most successful applicants to med or vet school have a 3.5+)...another case of "SDN merry sunshine" misinterpreting the relevance of an admissions stat...

Finally, taken directly from the Columbia website post bacc admissions page: "At a minimum, applicants to the program must possess an overall cumulative GPA of 3.0."

 

[oneandonlylo]

Finally, I would not interpret the 3.0 GPA as anything other than the minimum acceptable and compound your confusion by extrapolating that the acceptance rate is "pretty high" (see below) - I seriously doubt that they routinely accept applicants with that low of a GPA - more relevant: what is their average GPA for admitted applicants?

As a current student I would definitely say that the rumor of "everyone above a 3.0" is true. First off, the postbac program is a big money-maker... they are more than happy to take your money if you want to come, figuring that if you can't hack it, you'll leave. The acceptance rate is so high because the attrition rate is also... only about 50% of the students that start the program finish it. Some decide medicine isn't for them. Others decide the financial burden of being at Columbia isn't worth it and transfer to Hunter or the like. Still others are either asked to leave or gently encouraged to, as they will not be granted committee letters with grades under a certain GPA. So... despite the fact that you wouldn't think so, admission rates are definitely high. If you think about it, all they care about is keeping that med school acceptance rate stat up...

On a less cynical note I think it also has to do with a somewhat blank slate policy, which is to say that not everyone showed their best in undergrad. The program cares much more about established consistency for a desire to go into medicine ie. volunteer work, research, etc. The students I know have very varied backgrounds, both academic and otherwise. Not everyone has a 3.5+ from an Ivy institution... plenty do, don't get me wrong, but there are definitely students who are working hard to prove themselves for the first time.

 

[aznstyle28]

It's good that they accept a GPA 3.0+ but what about test scores (SAT, ACT, GRE)? I took the SATs 6 years ago with a 1040. Do I need to take the GRE? I'm sure I can do better, but I'd still like to know what my chances are without taking it.

 

[aznstyle28]

There's an inexpensive post-bacc program near my home and they claim to have 66% of their graduates enter medical school. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than Columbia, but Columbia is a better school. What do you think I should do?

 

[oneandonlylo]

Agreed. Columbia's name is only worthwhile if you have the grades to prove you handled it well.

 

[drizzt3117]

There is also the linkage option. Columbia has a number of linkage programs and those with 3.5+ in the program should be eligible for them. GPAs are relative in postbac programs. I believe someone said people in the Penn program linked to Dartmouth relatively frequently with 3.1+ GPAs in the program.

 

[mynamewastaken]

"A 4.0 from Columbia will look better than a 4.0 from a state school, but a 4.0 from a state school will still look better than a 3.5 from Columbia."

I know this may be met with much disagreement, but i respectfully disagree. As I'm sure current Columbia students can attest to, getting a 3.5 in that program is extremely difficult. Just as a disclaimer I am NOT saying that state schools are easy and earning a 3.5 there is any less of an accomplishment, but if you have the money and work ethic to enter and finish Columbia's program, my humble opinion is it can be very beneficial come application time. I have posted this elsewhere in the past, but my general feeling from observing many post-bacc student through the application process is the reputation of the post-bacc program matters more than reputation of your undergrad school. Just an observation...

Additionally, to comment on the next post about Penn's linkages (currently a Penn post-bacc here) you can link to 5+ upper tier med schools with a 3.2 GPA in the program. When I first started this program I wasn't linking and honestly thought that arrangement was the biggest joke in the world....until I started the program...Believe me or not (and I have no reason to defend or boast about reputation of schools; the issue means very little to me) but having attended several colleges of different "prestige" I can tell you Penn was by FAR the most competitive and difficult. I never thought I'd say this, but getting a 3.2 in this program is no easy task. Additionally, the grade inflation rumors that run rampant on SDN have no basis whatsoever based on my 2+ years here. Best of luck. Just wanted to add my 2 cents.

 

[postbacker]

"A 4.0 from Columbia will look better than a 4.0 from a state school, but a 4.0 from a state school will still look better than a 3.5 from Columbia."

I know this may be met with much disagreement, but i respectfully disagree. As I'm sure current Columbia students can attest to, getting a 3.5 in that program is extremely difficult. Just as a disclaimer I am NOT saying that state schools are easy and earning a 3.5 there is any less of an accomplishment, but if you have the money and work ethic to enter and finish Columbia's program, my humble opinion is it can be very beneficial come application time. I have posted this elsewhere in the past, but my general feeling from observing many post-bacc student through the application process is the reputation of the post-bacc program matters more than reputation of your undergrad school. Just an observation...

Additionally, to comment on the next post about Penn's linkages (currently a Penn post-bacc here) you can link to 5+ upper tier med schools with a 3.2 GPA in the program. When I first started this program I wasn't linking and honestly thought that arrangement was the biggest joke in the world....until I started the program...Believe me or not (and I have no reason to defend or boast about reputation of schools; the issue means very little to me) but having attended several colleges of different "prestige" I can tell you Penn was by FAR the most competitive and difficult. I never thought I'd say this, but getting a 3.2 in this program is no easy task. Additionally, the grade inflation rumors that run rampant on SDN have no basis whatsoever based on my 2+ years here. Best of luck. Just wanted to add my 2 cents.

Try this on for size: a 4.0 from Columbia will be seen as "better" than a 3.5 from Coumbia.

Furthermore: a 4.0 from anywhere will be seen as "better" than a 3.5 from anywhere else.

Grades matter in the medical school application process. Trying to impute the GPA bonus value of the "name" of a school is a ridiculous exercise in this numbers driven process.

 

[mynamewastaken]

And I also agree with you; it is a numbers game. I guess the best way to describe it is it really is a bit of a balancing act. If a person is relatively confident they will do "well" (3.5-3.6) at a top-tier post-bacc then they will prob be a successful applicant in the end. I think where it gets muddy is when these people are having trouble getting above B's at these places that their chances begin to diminish significantly. That being said, I have also seen (I agonized over this very issue when deciding where to do my post-bacc) students go to city colleges due to the very justified money issue and pull close to 4.0's...but it just didn't appear to impress many adcoms. A huge caveat to this is a person's background. I believe that if you are doing damage control the top-tier post bacc might be your best bet. Contrastingly, if you are someone who has a solid ugrad GPA and just needs to get these courses out of the way then a 3.5 from a state school post bacc would prob be just fine....if you don't mind the lack of structure, linkages, etc...

so yes, numbers are very important but I think the post-bacc GPA and where you ultimately do these programs is more or less important depending on your previous grades, experiences, etc..

 

[mynamewastaken]

Postbacker: That's just it though. The numbers clearly show a much higher acceptance rate to medical school from places like Penn and Columbia than they do from Hunter or State U post bacc. I'm not going to even touch the issue of prestige and guessing how it might improve chances of acceptance. As we on SDN have beaten to death: no one knows! That's not what I was saying. What I was saying is there are clearly benefits to students who attend reputable post-bacc programs and do well. I think it's safe to say that. I'm not saying the name of school will make up for a GPA, but I do think the name of a school certainly helps when you've also done well. That's been my experience.

 

[postbacker]

Postbacker: That's just it though. The numbers clearly show a much higher acceptance rate to medical school from places like Penn and Columbia than they do from Hunter or State U post bacc. I'm not going to even touch the issue of prestige and guessing how it might improve chances of acceptance. As we on SDN have beaten to death: no one knows! That's not what I was saying. What I was saying is there are clearly benefits to students who attend reputable post-bacc programs and do well. I think it's safe to say that. I'm not saying the name of school will make up for a GPA, but I do think the name of a school certainly helps when you've also done well. That's been my experience.

You are overlooking the "fact" that has been presented on these threads that Columbia has a huge attrition rate among post bacc students, those who drop out of the program voluntarily or are run off, thus distilling the initial enrollees down to the ones who will actually make it into medical school. I know nothing about Penn and its postbac...

So to claim that acceptance rates are much higher from Columbia is very misleading...and to also make statements that a 3.5 from the Columbia post bacc is "better" than a 4.0 from a "state U post bacc" is additionally misleading...

Look, justify or rationalize your choice of post bacc program anyway you want, but failure to make excellent grades (and strong MCAT and to have all the other stuff needed to get into med school) will hurt you in this process no matter what the "name" of the program you attended...

Show me some stats on these numbers you claim "clearly" show this, and then lets adjust those numbers for the high attrition rates at Columbia to see if your claim is still valid...would also be helpful to know the average post bacc GPAs (and cumulative GPAs) from these programs so that we are not comparing apples and oranges...

The only post bacc programs I am aware of with really high (95 to 100 percent) acceptance rates into medical school are Bryn Mawr and Goucher, and neither of them is Penn or Columbia last time I checked...using your logic, seems like you should be attending one of them.

 

[mynamewastaken]

http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/choosing_ugrad.html


Getting into medical school is a very competitive process. Nationally, only 50% of the individuals who applied for Fall 2006 admission to allopathic (MD degree-granting) medical schools were admitted. However, Penn applicants were much more successful in gaining admission. Among the 261 Penn applicants (both current students and alumni) for Fall 2006 admission, 198 of them, or 76%, were accepted. Of the graduating seniors, 83% were admitted that year. Penn has always been a leader in preparing students for the study of medicine. Over the years, it has consistently ranked among the top few undergraduate schools in the number of its alumni who enter M.D. programs in the United States.

http://studentservices.hunter.cuny.edu/prehealth/prehealth_postba.htm

Hunter had an acceptance rate, for postbaccalaureate students, in 2006-2007 of 65%.


I'll leave Columbia alone because there's tons of threads on their program from current and past students here. Before coming to Penn I thoroughly considered both Penn and Hunter and know for a fact both schools write committee letters for anyone regardless of GPA...therefore, these numbers should represent literally all applicants.

Good luck to all!

 

[postbacker]

http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/choosing_ugrad.html


Getting into medical school is a very competitive process. Nationally, only 50% of the individuals who applied for Fall 2006 admission to allopathic (MD degree-granting) medical schools were admitted. However, Penn applicants were much more successful in gaining admission. Among the 261 Penn applicants (both current students and alumni) for Fall 2006 admission, 198 of them, or 76%, were accepted. Of the graduating seniors, 83% were admitted that year. Penn has always been a leader in preparing students for the study of medicine. Over the years, it has consistently ranked among the top few undergraduate schools in the number of its alumni who enter M.D. programs in the United States.

http://studentservices.hunter.cuny.edu/prehealth/prehealth_postba.htm

Hunter had an acceptance rate, for postbaccalaureate students, in 2006-2007 of 65%.


I'll leave Columbia alone because there's tons of threads on their program from current and past students here. Before coming to Penn I thoroughly considered both Penn and Hunter and know for a fact both schools write committee letters for anyone regardless of GPA...therefore, these numbers should represent literally all applicants.

Good luck to all!

Dude, you are mixing or confusing Penn undergrad/alum data with the Penn post bacc people...so you feel this data vindicates your statement that "clearly" indicates Penn post bacc has a much higher acceptance rate into medical school than State U post baccs? I don't see it in those numbers, but then again, I am not at Penn so I don't feel the need to rationalize attending the program myself and paying through the nose for the privilege...

To be clear - it will not surprise me one bit if the Penn post bacc acceptance rate to med school is higher than Hunter College (65%)...however, you have not provided the data necessary for comparison.

Anyway, you are comparing apples and oranges to begin with - my guess is Penn is much more selective than a state school post bacc program, so the incoming students already have a greater chance of getting into med school with higher undergrad GPAs, etc., all else being equal. And seldom is "all else equal." Additionally, the high acceptance rates for Penn undergrads is also directly affected by the quality of the incoming students - Penn undergrad is one of the most selective colleges in the country - I would expect their numbers to be "above average."

Assuming we can compare 2 equivalent students (same UG school and GPA, same ECs, etc) enroll in the respective programs, and one makes a 3.5 in the Penn post bacc but the other makes a 4.0 at Hunter, I will put my money on the Hunter grad having a "better" med school spplication cycle every day of the week...hypothetical to the point of proving nothing, but your earlier statements about the relative value of GPAs from these schools was really off base and unsupported by any data...

 

[mynamewastaken]

the college of general studies, the division of Penn that the post-bacc program is in has stated on their website that for prehealth students (taking all pre-reqs, the acceptance rate is approximately 90%....the other program, special science (for pre-req finishers or gpa enhancers) the acceptance rate is 85%....i didn't go get the link because, honestly, I just don't care....there's tons of posts and threads on SDN speaking in support of this program.

If anyone wants to know what i think about the program because you're considering attending PM me. It's good...a lot of people get into medical school....and relative to other structured programs at private schools it's cheap!

 

[postbacker]

the college of general studies, the division of Penn that the post-bacc program is in has stated on their website that for prehealth students (taking all pre-reqs, the acceptance rate is approximately 90%....the other program, special science (for pre-req finishers or gpa enhancers) the acceptance rate is 85%....i didn't go get the link because, honestly, I just don't care....there's tons of posts and threads on SDN speaking in support of this program.

If anyone wants to know what i think about the program because you're considering attending PM me. It's good...a lot of people get into medical school....and relative to other structured programs at private schools it's cheap!

I looked over the webiste pretty closely and did not see those stats, but whatever...I suggest in the future when you make a claim based on fact, be prepared to back it up with a citation...

You have completely miscontrued my posts if you think I am being critical of the Penn program - I don't know the first thing about it, but I assume that because it is part of Penn, it is probably pretty good. On the other hand, I have read lots of sketchy stuff about Columbia, and I am not so sure that the Harvard program is all that hot, either, so for anybody out there looking to drop big bucks on one of these Ivy League post bac programs, do your homework...

 

[mynamewastaken]

For anyone interested, this excerpt is from the downloaded brochure on the front page of the Penn Post-Bacc website.

http://www.sas.upenn.edu/CGS/downloads/Prehealth2005.pdf

WHICH PROGRAM
IS RIGHT FOR YOU?

Pre-Health Program

This program is designed for students who have not taken the basic science courses required for admission to medical or graduate school (chemistry, biology, organic chemistry and physics). Many Pre-Health Program students possess graduate or professional degrees and have worked in a variety of non-medical fields such as education, communications, the Peace Corps or business.
Program Size: 50-70 students
Outcomes: Approximately 95% of the students who complete this program are accepted into medical or graduate school.

Special Science Program

This program is designed for students with some medical, academic or professional experience who wish to complete or enhance an existing background in science. They excel at standardized testing (GRE, MCAT, etc.) but their academic record often requires further strengthening.
Program Size: 50-75 students
Outcomes: Approximately 85% of the students who complete this program are accepted into medical or graduate school.

These published numbers are higher than the ones i originally stated so i wanted to clarify. Also, i realize this thread got off topic from the OP's inquiry so apologies.

 

[drizzt3117]

Scripps has also had a 100 percent accept rate for the last 8 years