HELP! I've been dismissed from Med School :(

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I never transferred to any schools. But my close friends are attending either US MD or DO. When we compared our material, we found out that Carribean testing methods are harder compared to their US schools. We use same books, we learn the same thing. The difference however, is the EXPECTATION during clinicals and residency.

It is very true that Carribean schools take everyone. We had dumb people that I swear I would worry for my life if I were ever their patient, just like we had some smart students who aced every damn exam and got a minimum of 240 on their step before wrapping up their last semester of basic science... Bottom line, for carribean med students, students don't fight for their survival only but also for excellency on board exams. We are constantly being reminded to work harder and be more competitive than US graduates...which is fine, and I'm not complaining..


I hope I made it clear.
 
Get a lawyer. Get the best one you can afford. Remember, you are losing incredible future earning potential, so find a big gun lawyer.

Medical school "professionalism committees" can have a bad habit of making examples out of people. You are the victim this year.

I've seen other people get kicked out of medical school for various BS reasons - one of which was pointing out the affair the Dean was having with his secretary. Of course they said she was being "unprofessional", but after litigation she got right back in and was compensated for a year's lost practice income.

In your case, you decided to help your family stay out of the soup kitchens. You didn't want to write STEP 1 because you could not adequately prepare for it while working jobs to make money for your family. If you did write it you would not do as well as you are capable, and this would limit your career choices. That's understandable. Does this committee know this?

For all the virtues these "professionalism" vultures preach, they tend to leave "loyalty" out of the discussion.

I reiterate: get a lawyer STAT! Start documenting everything. Find dirty laundry on your accusers.
 
What if you fail classes?

First its extremely hard to fail classes becuse the curve them so that the average hovers at about a 90%. Most classes have either a 1% or 0% fail rate and they have a pretty strong system in place tutor anyone who is looking like they might be close. Also I think that 1% might include conditional passes, which means you got less than a 70% but more than a 65%, so you just need to take a remedial exam to move on in the course. So really very few classes actually fail anyone.

If you are one of the lucky few they'd let you take the class again over the summer, unless you failed a lot of classes. In that case you'd take the year over, but you'd still come back. If you failed that year AGAIN they'd spread the courses for your first 2 years out over 3 years so that you wouldn't have so much to worry about at one time, and then give you yet another shot.

The rumor is the last person that actually failed OUT of my school needed to fail second year four times in a row. Which I guess means it's not impossible but it's still pretty tough to fail. As long as you avoid academic dishonesty an acceptance letter is basically as good as a diploma.

So, yeah, that's why I've always heard the Caribbean is harder, because in addition to failing out all of the real idiots they also fail out some some people that probably would have made it through most US medical schools.

Just yesterday I and a couple other ladies from my village had to fix the plumbing problems in my clinic. You don´t want to know what the smell was like. It was just a better idea to get my hands dirty than wait to see if a superior *MIGHT* fix the problem for me. I still have serious electricity problems that i can´t fix myself. Either someone or the fridge is going to end up electrocuted if the issue isn't fixed. Luckily I already sent to my superiors a document stating I need help on the issue so that I can keep on working.

I have never been this happy to be training in the US.
 
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I never transferred to any schools. But my close friends are attending either US MD or DO. When we compared our material, we found out that Carribean testing methods are harder compared to their US schools. We use same books, we learn the same thing. The difference however, is the EXPECTATION during clinicals and residency.

It is very true that Carribean schools take everyone. We had dumb people that I swear I would worry for my life if I were ever their patient, just like we had some smart students who aced every damn exam and got a minimum of 240 on their step before wrapping up their last semester of basic science... Bottom line, for carribean med students, students don't fight for their survival only but also for excellency on board exams. We are constantly being reminded to work harder and be more competitive than US graduates...which is fine, and I'm not complaining..

I hope I made it clear.

Well, I'm impressed. Can you please share your statistical methods including p-value and confidence intervals?
 
Well, I'm impressed. Can you please share your statistical methods including p-value and confidence intervals?

You try taking an exam while drinking a daiquiri.
 
TheSauce

Why am I smelling sarcasm from you constantly???

I am not going to explain myself any further..I made a point and you take it or leave ...it was an experience I thought was worth of sharing before someone can decide on going to Carribean school blindly thinking things will get easier and problems will be solved.

no more no less.....


as for you Sideways:
I say la caravane passe et les chiens aboient 😉
 
I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I just find it difficult to objectively compare "testing methods". I have no idea how the methods are different. Do they bang pots while you take the test?

Even if you consider the tests harder, I have a hard time comparing that as well. They don't even give us our tests back and in hindsight, our tests seem easy a lot of the time even if it was a very difficult test. It is just way too subjective. Perhaps the tests are difficult because those schools tend to accept weaker students, so they feel harder. Perhaps they are harder and it is a weed out.

Unless there is an objective statistical analysis of these kind of things, nobody truly knows. Even after that statistical analysis, nobody really knows for sure.

My school has had a 95+% pass rate every year on the boards, even when our class was only 20 people. So, when I see the 85% or whatever it was for 240+, that seems rather underwhelming for schools with tests that are supposedly so hard. Those people taking step 1 have presumably gone through the preclinical years at both places.

Now, how forgiving they are with failing students. US MD/DO is obviously much nicer and more forgiving about.
 
First its extremely hard to fail classes becuse the curve them so that the average hovers at about a 90%. Most classes have either a 1% or 0% fail rate and they have a pretty strong system in place tutor anyone who is looking like they might be close. Also I think that 1% might include conditional passes, which means you got less than a 70% but more than a 65%, so you just need to take a remedial exam to move on in the course. So really very few classes actually fail anyone.

If you are one of the lucky few they'd let you take the class again over the summer, unless you failed a lot of classes. In that case you'd take the year over, but you'd still come back. If you failed that year AGAIN they'd spread the courses for your first 2 years out over 3 years so that you wouldn't have so much to worry about at one time, and then give you yet another shot.

The rumor is the last person that actually failed OUT of my school needed to fail second year four times in a row. Which I guess means it's not impossible but it's still pretty tough to fail. As long as you avoid academic dishonesty an acceptance letter is basically as good as a diploma.

So, yeah, that's why I've always heard the Caribbean is harder, because in addition to failing out all of the real idiots they also fail out some some people that probably would have made it through most US medical schools.

Sounds like a terrific school you go to. Mind sharing the name? I've heard of schools in the U.S. dismissing students after failing two classes.
 
wow, two things that make StudentDoctor members go BAT****- US MD vs Carribbean MD, and MD vs DO

Seriously, some of you guys are crazy (speaking to all users here, not JUST allopathic users...)
 
wow, two things that make StudentDoctor members go BAT****- US MD vs Carribbean MD, and MD vs DO

I can think of a lot more than that: discussions of match lists, URM advantages, "what are my chances" threads, criminal record questions, pre-studying for med school, decreasing physician salaries, etc, etc, etc...

Seriously, some of you guys are crazy (speaking to all users here, not JUST allopathic users...)

Could you be more specific?
 
TheSauce

Why am I smelling sarcasm from you constantly???

I am not going to explain myself any further..I made a point and you take it or leave ...it was an experience I thought was worth of sharing before someone can decide on going to Carribean school blindly thinking things will get easier and problems will be solved.

no more no less.....


as for you Sideways:
I say la caravane passe et les chiens aboient 😉

It's completely understandable that you don't want to discuss anything until the manuscript is in-press. But could you at least let us know what journal you've submitted this high quality work to?
 
Tulane, though to be honest I think most US schools have basically the same policy.

I don't know, there were other posters on this forum who were dismissed after one semester of med school and they all said they went to U.S. schools. A friend of mine at one of the top DO schools was in a similar predicament.
 
I heard that a top 50 US MD school (wont mention name) loses +10 students per year from the incoming class.
 
First its extremely hard to fail classes becuse the curve them so that the average hovers at about a 90%. Most classes have either a 1% or 0% fail rate and they have a pretty strong system in place tutor anyone who is looking like they might be close. Also I think that 1% might include conditional passes, which means you got less than a 70% but more than a 65%, so you just need to take a remedial exam to move on in the course. So really very few classes actually fail anyone.

If you are one of the lucky few they'd let you take the class again over the summer, unless you failed a lot of classes. In that case you'd take the year over, but you'd still come back. If you failed that year AGAIN they'd spread the courses for your first 2 years out over 3 years so that you wouldn't have so much to worry about at one time, and then give you yet another shot.

The rumor is the last person that actually failed OUT of my school needed to fail second year four times in a row. Which I guess means it's not impossible but it's still pretty tough to fail. As long as you avoid academic dishonesty an acceptance letter is basically as good as a diploma.

So, yeah, that's why I've always heard the Caribbean is harder, because in addition to failing out all of the real idiots they also fail out some some people that probably would have made it through most US medical schools.



I have never been this happy to be training in the US.

Just curious, where do you go to school? We had at least one person fail out and get KICKED out every year - well, at least the past two years 😛
At least two second years got kicked out of our program for not passing micro or path. Some even got all A's and B's their first year. Another girl was about to get kicked out, and she got nothing less than a B in any class except Micro, which she failed. Still, she was about to get booted, but she bagged and pleaded (maybe even cried) with our academic committee and was lucky enough to be able to re-peat. Don't give false sense of security to other medical students, just because your school tolerates incompetency and lack of success on first attempt.

By chance, do you go to med school in the South like Alabama or Mississippi? 🙄
 
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Tulane, though to be honest I think most US schools have basically the same policy.

I think Tulane is a lil better with that than most...

We have to get over a 75% to pass and between a 70-75% is a marginal... if you get more than 2 (out of 4 blocks in the year) you repeat the year. If you fail one course you have to remediate in the summer or if fail 2 blocks or more than that you can beg to get to repeat or get dismissed.
 
We had a student dismissed recently for failing 2 classes. Though, we're pretty sure the person didn't want to be in medical school anymore.

To be fair, nothing I said is a written policy or anything, it's just how my school seems to act. If the administration was sure someone had given up trying entirely they might not ask them back.

It's just that no one's ever seen it happen.
 
I think Tulane is a lil better with that than most...

We have to get over a 75% to pass and between a 70-75% is a marginal... if you get more than 2 (out of 4 blocks in the year) you repeat the year. If you fail one course you have to remediate in the summer or if fail 2 blocks or more than that you can beg to get to repeat or get dismissed.

Yea, my school isn't like that either.

I also disagree with the assumption that all tests are curved with an average of 90. They definitely aren't at my school.

We have kind of a complex system for the first year, but if you fail in the first semester you have to start all over the following fall. Chances are that if you're going to fail, it's going to happen early so I'm not sure what happens if you fail a later block. I guess you would just retake the test.
 
I think this is really uncalled for to be honest, if hes made it to year 2, and went out to help his family, he has proven that hes capable of handling medical school, and going to help his family, however little credit most of you cold-hearted people here give him for that (this is not directed at the quote alone but alot of the posts trashing him with little logic behind it).

I don't think people here are really being that cold-hearted. From what the OP has said, the school tried to work with him to come up with a workable solution so he could both help his family and take Step 1, and he still didn't take the exam despite multiple extensions. I doubt the school would have granted the extensions without knowing why the OP needed them in the first place, and since med schools generally go above and beyond to keep students from failing (or being dismissed), I'm guessing the final date provided the OP a relatively reasonable amount of time to study and take Step 1 in the context of his situation.

To the OP, I agree with the others in that it's not a reasonable expectation to get through med school without feeling incompetent and embarrassed at times. Everyone goes through it; case in point, one of the next threads on here is titled something like, "Do you often feel bad about yourself?" But it does sound to me that you do have a particularly difficult time with anxiety (and self-defeating behavior). As it has gotten to the point that it is impacting your life to the point of threatening your career, you might benefit from a little help from a psychologist/psychiatrist. And, I suspect, that you're probably equally appalled at that suggestion, but you'd certainly not be the first nor the last student to need counseling. There's an intern at my school who sounds essentially like you in 3 years in terms of anxiety, and it was an absolute disaster...especially as initially everyone's response was to try to ignore it and NOT embarrass the intern. But eventually the program did step in and it's been much better...for both the intern and everyone else. IMHO, it's better to confront and deal with these issues sooner rather than later, and to do it on your own terms rather than having to have someone else force you.

I'd also take time to think about what really was behind your decision not to take Step 1 as well as your current plan about responding to the situation. To me, it sounds like someone who either subconsciously doesn't really want to go into medicine. I don't necessarily think that's really the case, which means that you have "other stuff" in the mix that needs to be dealt with before you can achieve your goals. If you do really, truly love medicine, I'd talk to your school again, get in touch with a counselor, and go for it.

I don't mean any of this at all to be harsh, it just sounds like you're in a very tough situation and wanted to add my opinion to the group...take what you want from it. I forget who it's by, but there's a great quote out there about what makes the difference between successful and unsuccessful people, and it's not that successful people don't also have fears, but rather that they do things despite the fear. Good luck!!
 
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wow, two things that make StudentDoctor members go BAT****- US MD vs Carribbean MD, and MD vs DO

Seriously, some of you guys are crazy (speaking to all users here, not JUST allopathic users...)

I saw an entertaining thread earlier that got hijacked by a nurses vs. doctors brawl (FYI, apparently the only reason why we've decided to become doctors is because we are selfish, hate our families, and are power-hungry). I'm not sure why, then, that person was spending her free time hanging out in the premed forums, but I've learned to stop asking those questions of SDN.
 
I think Tulane is a lil better with that than most...

We have to get over a 75% to pass and between a 70-75% is a marginal... if you get more than 2 (out of 4 blocks in the year) you repeat the year. If you fail one course you have to remediate in the summer or if fail 2 blocks or more than that you can beg to get to repeat or get dismissed.

That's an interesting system. Do you have an organ-based curriculum?

Nothing like what we have, using a course/block system. If you fail a test (i.e block) for a course, nothing really happens (aside from mandatory tutoring). If you fail a course, you have to expand the first year into 2 years to repeat the course. If you low pass a course (under 72-76%), you have to retake the course in the summer. If you low pass two courses in a year, you have to repeat the year. If you fail two courses (ever) it's ground for dismissal. Seems pretty lenient to me now, based on what some other places seem to have set up.
 
If you fail more than 30% of the tests in a year at my school or don't have a 70% average for the year, you better have a good excuse. I know they let some students re-take the year, but I wouldn't be surprised if some people are dismissed over it (though I don't know anyone personally who was). Certainly haven't heard of anything like 4 attempts to pass a year (that's got to get expensive).
 
Where I go (I think it's pretty obvious what school that is), we have 3-4 week blocks based on systems. 70% is passing, and everything has been adjusted over the years to produce an average of about 85%. The goal they work on with the block leaders is to tighten the standard deviation to +/-5%. In any case, you get a set number of block failures per year. But if you fail an exam, they make you meet with a counselor and a physician mentor to talk about it, and they offer some good advice and motivation.

In any case, I fail to see how a school (e.g. the Caribbean med schools) could have so much more rigorous requirements for testing purposes, and yet for all the information they make you learn, there is still such a high failure rate on Step 1 of those people who weren't already weeded out. It's kind of baffling. Lily -- care to explain why you think that is?
 
Just curious, where do you go to school? We had at least one person fail out and get KICKED out every year - well, at least the past two years 😛
At least two second years got kicked out of our program for not passing micro or path. Some even got all A's and B's their first year. Another girl was about to get kicked out, and she got nothing less than a B in any class except Micro, which she failed. Still, she was about to get booted, but she bagged and pleaded (maybe even cried) with our academic committee and was lucky enough to be able to re-peat. Don't give false sense of security to other medical students, just because your school tolerates incompetency and lack of success on first attempt.

By chance, do you go to med school in the South like Alabama or Mississippi? 🙄

What the hell???
 
Beg, crawl, and plead your way back in. You're going to go to ffing Caribeans so you wouldn't be PICKED on? You're not in the 3rd grade. This is ridiculous.
It sounds like it's attitudes like this that made you miss your Step1 date repeatedly and made your current school feel they'd be better off without you.

Change that attitude first. Then beg, crawl, and plead your way back in.

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Man I replied than saw y'all had hijacked the thread.
On the discussion above, I believe med schools should allow their students to make mistakes. People inevitably will. You have a bad day, death in the family, etc, and you fail an exam. That should not be all it takes to take your dream away from you.

The challenge lies in how many chances you give the student, and that varies from school to school. This is med school. It costs a ridiculous amount to attend and students should not be kicked out at a whim and left with debt they can't repay.

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As for Caribeans having much tougher standards and more difficult material... It's possible but one thing is for sure: their average step1 is abysmal by state-side standards.
 
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Beg, crawl, and plead your way back in. You're going to go to ffing Caribeans so you wouldn't be PICKED on? You're not in the 3rd grade. This is ridiculous.
It sounds like it's attitudes like this that made you miss your Step1 date repeatedly and made your current school feel they'd be better off without you.

Change that attitude first. Then beg, crawl, and plead your way back in.

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Man I replied than saw y'all had hijacked the thread.
On the discussion above, I believe med schools should allow their students to make mistakes. People inevitably will. You have a bad day, death in the family, etc, and you fail an exam. That should not be all it takes to take your dream away from you.

The challenge lies in how many chances you give the student, and that varies from school to school. This is med school. It costs a ridiculous amount to attend and students should not be kicked out at a whim and left with debt they can't repay.

---------------

As for Caribeans having much tougher standards and more difficult material... It's possible but one thing is for sure: their average step1 is abysmal by state-side standards
.

I don't know one way or the other, but the average step1 score could be contributed to the quality of the average student that Caribbean schools accept. I don't think it's a stretch to state that Caribbean schools tend to take US applicant left-overs. Even if half the time, those students were far superior than their scores suggest, the average step 1 would be terrible, as the other half of that student group likely wouldn't be able to cut it anywhere.
 
I just think its curious that HPSPpayissues feels the need to take a dump on nearly everything he considers inferior in the world of medicine. Seriously how is he not banned already for trolling?
 
Getting this thread back on track.

My school (and I assume many others) has it written down when you have to take each exam by or face getting kicked out. It sounds like the OP had multiple meetings with the administration to make sure they had scheduled the testing date, and they backed out each time.

Judging from some of the OPs other concerns about clinical years, it sounds like maybe the OP has some communication issues with authority. I'm guessing that they weren't exactly clear with the administration on the severity of the family emergency, as I don't know of too many administrations that aren't willing to work with students who need time off for what sounds like a legit problem.

I wouldn't rule out an anxiety issue, either, might be worth looking into. Either way, I doubt a lawyer would be of much use here.
 
I don't know one way or the other, but the average step1 score could be contributed to the quality of the average student that Caribbean schools accept. I don't think it's a stretch to state that Caribbean schools tend to take US applicant left-overs. Even if half the time, those students were far superior than their scores suggest, the average step 1 would be terrible, as the other half of that student group likely wouldn't be able to cut it anywhere.

Taking the thread off topic again, I found this in First Aid for Step 1:

First Aid said:
In 2004, only 67% of ECFMG candidates passed Step 1 on their first attempt, compared with 93% of U.S. and Canadian medical students and graduates. Of note, 1994–1995 data showed that USFMGs (U.S. citizens attending non-U.S. medical schools) performed 0.4 SD lower than IMGs (non-U.S. citizens attending non-U.S. medical schools). Although their overall scores were lower, USFMGs performed better than IMGs on behavioral sciences. In general, students from non-U.S. medical schools perform worst in behavioral science and biochemistry (1.9 and 1.5 SDs below U.S. students) and comparatively better in gross anatomy and pathology (0.7 and 0.9 SD below U.S. students). Although derived from data collected in 1994–1995, these data may help you focus your studying efforts.
 
Guys, thanks for all your replies. I know there's a lack of responsibilities on my part toward my career path. I had to chose between school or family and I chose family instead. At one point I had given up hope of returning to school because my family was facing foreclosure and I decided to work to make sure we had a roof over our head. I was working 2 jobs and tried to study whenever I could, but you'll agree that type of study schedule is not adequate. That's why I had to delay taking the test time and again. Although it seemed I wasn't motivated to come back to school, every hour I worked brought me closer to a feeble financial goal that would help my family and also during my time going back to school.

The reason I'm afraid of getting picked on is because I get really anxious when that happens and I would forget the information I have learned, and that makes it worst. I just feel like a deer in the headlight and I hate that feeling. My classmates told me to take it lightly, they say "don't let it get to you, don't take it personally" but I can't do it. I take things personally and tend to blame myself. Is there anyone on this forum that can relate to this and how did you overcome that? I think this is the main reason why I hesitate to petition to come back to my program. I don't want attendings or other students to take advantage of my past and my personality.

That sounds like a really rough family situation, and for that you have my sympathies. I agree with most of the others on here, though, in that it seems like your home school is your best shot. Is there a committee above the level of your student affairs dean that you can go to? An Academic Affairs committee or something like that? Or the Dean of the medical school? If the dean of student affairs has shot you down already, it sounds like it's time to go over his or her head.

And I have to also agree with everyone else on this board who thinks your fear of getting "picked on" is irrational and silly at best. Sorry. The 'deer in the headlights' feeling becomes second nature after the first few weeks, but then after that you get used to being asked questions and develop a skill to redirect the conversation to something you DO know well. Equally hard is to get used to saying "I don't know" when someone asks you something and you have no idea what the answer is. Saying "I don't know, but I would think that ______ because this patient has ______" goes a long way and is an acceptable answer, if not better, than the few words the asker was actually looking for. It shows you think. Taking things personally? That's a problem. Don't. If there's some resident or attending who is a flat out @$$hole, then do you really care what he says to you? Just be able to differentiate between someone being a jerk and someone giving you constructive criticism.

that is bull man, MD schools are run by ******s who think too highly of themselves and the title MD.

I really think you should sue them. They cannot kick you out if you have a family emergency. Just provide legit proof that the illness of whoever it was, actually got worse etc.

please consider talking to a lawyer.

hahahaha, ridiculous. don't do this, OP.
 
OP, if your still reading this thread, I just wanted to throw my hat in with the "don't give up, try your school one more time" crowd.

I have a friend who is very similar to you. He's a really smart guy but his ability to "forget" deadlines and his expectation that he will be able to wiggle his way out them with some excuse really threatens his future sometimes. and no, this "friend" is not me.

You are a smart guy too. You passed two years at Harvard Med. You had some family stuff come up and made the self-less but self-destructive choice. I would guess that you probably have the ability to pass Step 1 right now, even without any studying. I think that it's a single digit % of allopathic med students that actually fail the exam. Most of the people I know at my school got a NBME score that predicted they would pass well before 2nd year was over and before they had started Step 1 review.

So if I were in your position I would take some Diagnostic exams in the next few days. Maybe one from the NBME and one from USMLEworld (not one in a book where you can look up the answers in the back of). Schedule a meeting with your Dean, stress how sorry you are about missing the deadlines, how your attitude has changed 180 degrees, that you have the ability to pass the exam, and would love it if he would he / the promotions committee would have you back.
 
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