So Penn looks like what people are going for. I'm leaning towards Penn. Ok, now to defend some of the things said about the medical program. First of all, Albany Medical is no where near the bottom of med. schools. It is ranked in the sixties and is a "mediocre" med. school. The thing that I keep on arguing is that ALL med. schools (so few of them) are great and it really depends on how well you do on the boards, med. school, and extracurricularly. Second of all, I was thinking of going to the med. program because I'm ASSURED a seat in med. school. Thus, if I DON'T do well on the MCAT's or in the tough pre-med classes, I have Albany Medical College. Btw, if it's so "bad", then why is it one of the oldest medical schools in the country. It has something that is making it run for so long producing top grads. The prez of Brigham and Womens hospital is a medical program grad of Albany med. The students in the program tend to do really well in undergrad/med. school and the reason they chose it was to avoid MCAT's, which is the biggest stumbling block for pre-meds!!!! But, I see that I won't get that "prestigous" undergrad education if I go to RPI. How much will that help? Think about it. Ok, I get a 3.7 at Penn, so what? You think ALL Penn grads are doing amazing or something. Are all Harvard grads wealthy and all set for life. Are all RPI grads sitting in dumps? Of course NOT. RPI is very well respected in the technology, math, and science industry and in academics. So is Penn, but what I'm wondering is do these prestigious schools actually help. I'm asking this because I know tons of grads coming from MIT, Columbia, Univ. New Mexico earning the same money. And, in the medical field, when hospitals hire people, they look at how well you did. I asked a doctor who hires surgeons at a hospital and he told me that he really doesn't care where they went. To an extent it matters, but he says that if there is a smart kid coming out of a less well known med. school then he'd take him because he's good. He told me that ALL med. schools in the US are good and it's just hard to get into them and worth it to skip all the stress. BUT, I see what you guys are telling me. You want me to take the prestigous undergrad and try for a prestigious med. school. What's wrong w/ going to RPI, if I do really well, yes I could've done well at Penn, but I don't know that, that's why I'm doing the program. So, if I do really well in my classes, I take the MCAT, and lets say I do really well on it, then I apply to other med. schools. I DON'T have a disadvantage coming out of RPI undergrad. A 4.0 is very well respected and is better than a 3.6 at Penn. A 4.0 at Penn is only slightly better than a 4.0 at RPI. Med. schools know that pre-med courses are tough and that all the schools make them pretty tough. RPI is a good science school so classes will be difficult. The program just gives me assurance that IF I don't do as well as I would like to, I still can get into med. school. I won't have to wait a few years, retake the MCAT, and do social service to build the resume. It's a pain struggling. BUT, if I do well, I can go to "better" med. school. I can study freely, take the MCAT with ease, do stuff in the summer which I want to do not because med. schools wanted me to and I can relax a little bit more than if I was at Penn. And, about the social life. You can have a great time anywhere. There's stuff to do everywhere. Cornell is in the middle of nowhere. Ithaca is a really small place isolated from life, but people have fun. And, again, when you're applying for jobs in a hospital, they look at residency and fellowship NOT where you went to high school, undergrad, and even med. school. Are top residencies difficult to obtain coming out of Albany Med. Not if I'm at the top of my class. You're probably saying that I could've gone to a better med. school, undergrad if I can be top of my med. school class. BUT, I can go to med. school the EASY way, then I'll have the stamina to kick ass and I can get a good residency. I don't need to get Harvard Dermatology to work at Harvard in twenty years. I can do a neurosurgery residency at Michigan, Rochester, Case, and then do fellowship at other great places and apply for a job in good hospitals earning the same as I would be working at JHU hospitals. As long as you do well, you can get anywhere. I know I can do well, but want that stress of not getting into med. school and doing all that **** needed w/ so much stress. 4 years of torture is not fun. Penn won't be heaven or anything as a pre-med engineer (I'm in the engineering school). Yeah, I'll meet great people and can have some fun in Philly. But, I can meet smart, great people at RPI too and have some fun in Albany. So what if RPI's not as prestigious? I just wanted to get some ideas out. I'm taking you advice people. But, what's so appealing about Penn? "It's Penn!" you might say, but so what. You might say that I can get into better med. schools, but I can from RPI too! Please give me some more concrete feedback and if you support Penn or the program, tell me why you personally think that and I'll definately respect your opinion and effort for helping me out. Thanks guys.
Help Me Choose Between A Bs/md Program And An Ivy
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1st of all, do you really want to live in Troy/Albany for the next 7 years, what may be the best years of your life? Bleccchhh. I sure wouldn't.
Philly is a great, underrated city. Live there for 4 years, then try out a new place for 4 years. Sure, you'll have more free time at RPI, but what are you going to do with that time? Take advantage of the expansive view of industrial wasteland?
2nd of all, those great people you're going to meet at RPI, 90% of them are going to be people who wish they'd gotten into MIT. They will all be very, very sciencey. Sure, some of them will have other things they're interested in, but most people who love science, yet have other things going on, choose not to go to tech schools. (huge generalization, i know, but i bet there's some truth to it)
3rd . . . some people might look at extracurriculars, shadowing, and research as bull**** you need to do to get into med school. actually, for some of us, those experiences can be quite fulfilling, and even enlightening. you're really doing yourself a disservice if you pick your college just so that you won't have to do those things.
I got into RPI (didn't apply for the combined program). I was soooooo set on being a research scientist as a career. But I decided to go to an ivy. And guess what? I realized there are a whoooole lot more things in the world than science. I am UNBELIEVABLY glad I made the choice I did.
Any pain I've gone through over the last few years is more than made up by the great selection of schools I can now choose from, some that are far less expensive and have a much better reputation than Albany. Please, you are far too young to be already wanting to take the "path of least resistance." Wait until you hit your midlife crisis to do that.
Philly is a great, underrated city. Live there for 4 years, then try out a new place for 4 years. Sure, you'll have more free time at RPI, but what are you going to do with that time? Take advantage of the expansive view of industrial wasteland?
2nd of all, those great people you're going to meet at RPI, 90% of them are going to be people who wish they'd gotten into MIT. They will all be very, very sciencey. Sure, some of them will have other things they're interested in, but most people who love science, yet have other things going on, choose not to go to tech schools. (huge generalization, i know, but i bet there's some truth to it)
3rd . . . some people might look at extracurriculars, shadowing, and research as bull**** you need to do to get into med school. actually, for some of us, those experiences can be quite fulfilling, and even enlightening. you're really doing yourself a disservice if you pick your college just so that you won't have to do those things.
I got into RPI (didn't apply for the combined program). I was soooooo set on being a research scientist as a career. But I decided to go to an ivy. And guess what? I realized there are a whoooole lot more things in the world than science. I am UNBELIEVABLY glad I made the choice I did.
Any pain I've gone through over the last few years is more than made up by the great selection of schools I can now choose from, some that are far less expensive and have a much better reputation than Albany. Please, you are far too young to be already wanting to take the "path of least resistance." Wait until you hit your midlife crisis to do that.
Yeah, I guess you make some good points. I'm going to talk to my parents about it and I'll make a decision. Would you trade the medical program for Rochester, Case, CMU, or JHU. I'll be doing engineering at I think all of these places and trying for med. school. Thanks for everyone's honest opinions!
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Whew. I feel like I've devoted hours to reading this thread, so even though I don't know much about any of these schools except for Penn, I'm going to weigh in.
You seem like you are having a lot of trouble making up your mind about where to go, and the SDNers are only making it more difficult. You will get a good education at every single one of your choices, and you will likely get into a good medical school from each of them, too - you just might have to work harder at certain ones more than others. Why don't you go back and visit the 'front runners' like penn, rpi, and jhu, etc. Walk around, talk to then engineering students, and see which school you would fit in best. Prestige won't mean a thing if you are not happy with your choice.
You seem like you are having a lot of trouble making up your mind about where to go, and the SDNers are only making it more difficult. You will get a good education at every single one of your choices, and you will likely get into a good medical school from each of them, too - you just might have to work harder at certain ones more than others. Why don't you go back and visit the 'front runners' like penn, rpi, and jhu, etc. Walk around, talk to then engineering students, and see which school you would fit in best. Prestige won't mean a thing if you are not happy with your choice.
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Where do I begin?
Albany is NOT ranked 60th. USNews lists through 70, and Albany is NOT in the top 70, let alone 60. It's closer to 115-120.
Why are you majoring in engineering if you're planning to be a doctor? Is there a reason? Maybe you want to be an engineer instead of a doctor, or a doctor without majoring in engineering. Most people going into college planning to major in engineering change their minds rather quickly, and if you don't want to be an engineer as a career you'll probably do a different major too
Your arguments for the RPI program don't make any sense to me, and it seems like most of your elders on this board agree
You said above that people who know you tell you to go to RPI, but the people on the board say to go to Penn. Now, let's think about this. The people you know are probably feeding off the things that you tell them, and then agree with you "yes you should go to RPI." whereas the people who don't know you are telling you their honest opinions.
Albany is NOT ranked 60th. USNews lists through 70, and Albany is NOT in the top 70, let alone 60. It's closer to 115-120.
Why are you majoring in engineering if you're planning to be a doctor? Is there a reason? Maybe you want to be an engineer instead of a doctor, or a doctor without majoring in engineering. Most people going into college planning to major in engineering change their minds rather quickly, and if you don't want to be an engineer as a career you'll probably do a different major too
Your arguments for the RPI program don't make any sense to me, and it seems like most of your elders on this board agree
You said above that people who know you tell you to go to RPI, but the people on the board say to go to Penn. Now, let's think about this. The people you know are probably feeding off the things that you tell them, and then agree with you "yes you should go to RPI." whereas the people who don't know you are telling you their honest opinions.
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To the English Lad,
Ivy refers to 8 universities/colleges in the US that have traditionally been associated with academic excellence (although it is really just an athletic conference that forbids the use of sports scholarship to attract atheletes): Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Cornell, Columbia, University of Pennsylvania (Penn), Dartmouth, and Brown.
To drdoctor,
It was such a waste of my time posting that message. The moment I posted, you came back throwing the names of Hopkins and U of Michigan around, which is totally opposite to what I intended. Let's face it. You are very insecure and that's very typical of many highschool graduates including MYSELF when I graduated in 1995. No matter which choice you make (i.e. Penn v.s. Albany/RPI) you will always regret that decision for the following 3 years of your life until you gain some maturity. So just flip a coin and don't waste your time typing long messages.
To premed2003,
I hope that you are not serious about your comment regarding Albany med. If so, you are a true premed and I commend you for that.
Ivy refers to 8 universities/colleges in the US that have traditionally been associated with academic excellence (although it is really just an athletic conference that forbids the use of sports scholarship to attract atheletes): Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Cornell, Columbia, University of Pennsylvania (Penn), Dartmouth, and Brown.
To drdoctor,
It was such a waste of my time posting that message. The moment I posted, you came back throwing the names of Hopkins and U of Michigan around, which is totally opposite to what I intended. Let's face it. You are very insecure and that's very typical of many highschool graduates including MYSELF when I graduated in 1995. No matter which choice you make (i.e. Penn v.s. Albany/RPI) you will always regret that decision for the following 3 years of your life until you gain some maturity. So just flip a coin and don't waste your time typing long messages.
To premed2003,
I hope that you are not serious about your comment regarding Albany med. If so, you are a true premed and I commend you for that.
No need to beat the crap out of me. I'm just telling people why people have chosen the med. program and why it's appealing to me. I haven't settled on it. Ok, first of all, Albany Med. is ranked in the seventies in terms of research funding. And, some people havent' heard of RPI because it's a math, science, engineering school so liberal arts people probably don't know much about it. Same w/ Carnegie Mellon. So, people are saying that a 3.7, 35 MCAT at Penn is better than a 3.7 and 35 MCAT at RPI? Not really. Check out mdapplicants.com. That's what people at these top schools hope to think (this doesn't include powerhouses like Princeton, Yale, etc, but schools that are decent: JHU, Penn, Darthmouth, etc). This is my plan as of now:
I take the program, see if I can do well, if I'm doing well, I take the MCAT. If I do well, I get out of the program, and apply to other med. schools
OR
I don't do too great at RPI (3.4-3.7), I take the MCAT, I don't do great (below 34), then I stay in the program
At Penn, I do great, and do great on the MCAT's, I'm not at a great, great advantange or anything and I'll get into some great schools. If I do this at RPI, I can get into a top 30 med. schools. There really isn't much difference between a "ranked 10 by USNWR" med. school and a med. school "ranked" 20 so I'll be happy at all of those places.
OR
At Penn, I don't do great. Maybe I just can't concentrate, too much stuff going on, can't get above a 90 on the tests cause I'm not brilliant or anything and organic chem although not really difficult takes alot of time and effort. And, I take MCAT, but don't do too great in the 7 hrs. I get a 30 or something, I'm not going to be looking to get even Albany. Check out md.applicants.com for some upenn students.
For the most part, people on the board aren't too fond of Albany Med. I may get out of the program, but I'm insecure of how well I can do in college. "Penn accepted you because they thought you could handle the coursework." That's the biggest bull**** statement ever. They just take people w/ good grades/SAT and half of those top high school kids don't do amazing in college.
One more thing, you guys are telling me how much more of a chance I have to get into top schools coming out of Penn. Sure, some do, but the MAJORITY of pre-meds don't get into the "top" med. schools. Also, for the millionth time, ALL med. schools in the US are great. That's the reason why there are only 130 of them. The rankings just tell you how much research goes on. And, lastly, these programs have a prestigious on their own. People know that if I go to this program, I'm not an idiot cause I couldn't get in anywhere else. When I apply to other med. schools, they'll know that I was in a program and will respect that. When I get out, I get a BS-MD w/ DR or distinction in research and people know that I went to a combined med. program and it's highly respected. Check out some of the grads of the program and see where they're at now. They do well and they end up w/ Harvard Med. grads.
Penn's risky and I'm not a very confident person and that's why I'm leaning towards the program.
I take the program, see if I can do well, if I'm doing well, I take the MCAT. If I do well, I get out of the program, and apply to other med. schools
OR
I don't do too great at RPI (3.4-3.7), I take the MCAT, I don't do great (below 34), then I stay in the program
At Penn, I do great, and do great on the MCAT's, I'm not at a great, great advantange or anything and I'll get into some great schools. If I do this at RPI, I can get into a top 30 med. schools. There really isn't much difference between a "ranked 10 by USNWR" med. school and a med. school "ranked" 20 so I'll be happy at all of those places.
OR
At Penn, I don't do great. Maybe I just can't concentrate, too much stuff going on, can't get above a 90 on the tests cause I'm not brilliant or anything and organic chem although not really difficult takes alot of time and effort. And, I take MCAT, but don't do too great in the 7 hrs. I get a 30 or something, I'm not going to be looking to get even Albany. Check out md.applicants.com for some upenn students.
For the most part, people on the board aren't too fond of Albany Med. I may get out of the program, but I'm insecure of how well I can do in college. "Penn accepted you because they thought you could handle the coursework." That's the biggest bull**** statement ever. They just take people w/ good grades/SAT and half of those top high school kids don't do amazing in college.
One more thing, you guys are telling me how much more of a chance I have to get into top schools coming out of Penn. Sure, some do, but the MAJORITY of pre-meds don't get into the "top" med. schools. Also, for the millionth time, ALL med. schools in the US are great. That's the reason why there are only 130 of them. The rankings just tell you how much research goes on. And, lastly, these programs have a prestigious on their own. People know that if I go to this program, I'm not an idiot cause I couldn't get in anywhere else. When I apply to other med. schools, they'll know that I was in a program and will respect that. When I get out, I get a BS-MD w/ DR or distinction in research and people know that I went to a combined med. program and it's highly respected. Check out some of the grads of the program and see where they're at now. They do well and they end up w/ Harvard Med. grads.
Penn's risky and I'm not a very confident person and that's why I'm leaning towards the program.
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I am not beating the crap out of you. I am just saying the things as it is. Honestly, if you really end up making a choice (you have to one day soon, unless you want to stay in highschool forever), you will wonder about the other side of the coin for the next 3 years. Am I right or wrong?
And I said that my post was a waste of my time because my post was suppose to end all hesitation in you, but I failed. No?
let's not sugar-coat any of the words. 😉 you are a very INSECURE person, period. I just don't see a way out of it for you! You just need more life experiences and gain some maturity in order to come to terms with ANY major decision you make in your life. And if writing long posts on SDN is a cathartic experience for you and you decrease your anxiety through this route, then continue to do so. There is nothing wrong with it.
You know. There is one good way out of it. You do whatever your parents tell you and if you second guess or are not happy about your parents' choice later on, then go back and blame the heck out of your parents and make them feel guilty. That works (I am serious) and they might buy you a car! Well, I am half joking but half serious 😉
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You know, people have tried being nice to you. They've tried explaining things to you in a simple manner, but you just don't seem to get it.
The fact that you're so confident about being able to do well at RPI, and are unsure about your ability to hack it at UPenn just goes to show that in your mind the two schools aren't of the same quality. I don't know why you seem to keep trying to convince yourself otherwise. Perhaps to justify your eventual choice of RPI.
Being as insecure as you are, I would definitely go with RPI as you'll at least have a spot secured in med school. Too big a chance to take by passing it up. After all, you may only get a 3.3 at UPenn. Or you may choke during the MCAT. The economy is going down the tubes, and competition to get into med school is only going to increase. If you screw up at UPenn and do < 30 on the MCAT, you may not get in. Don't risk it.
And for the love of God, please stop talking about landing a neurosurgery residency at Hopkins or UMichigan as a high school senior. It's obnoxious and is insulting to all medical students who actually know the kind of work that goes into securing a spot in the field, much less at a place like Hopkins.
Here's a quarter. Buy a clue. This thread is useless.
The fact that you're so confident about being able to do well at RPI, and are unsure about your ability to hack it at UPenn just goes to show that in your mind the two schools aren't of the same quality. I don't know why you seem to keep trying to convince yourself otherwise. Perhaps to justify your eventual choice of RPI.
Being as insecure as you are, I would definitely go with RPI as you'll at least have a spot secured in med school. Too big a chance to take by passing it up. After all, you may only get a 3.3 at UPenn. Or you may choke during the MCAT. The economy is going down the tubes, and competition to get into med school is only going to increase. If you screw up at UPenn and do < 30 on the MCAT, you may not get in. Don't risk it.
And for the love of God, please stop talking about landing a neurosurgery residency at Hopkins or UMichigan as a high school senior. It's obnoxious and is insulting to all medical students who actually know the kind of work that goes into securing a spot in the field, much less at a place like Hopkins.
Here's a quarter. Buy a clue. This thread is useless.
Ok, I'm sorry everyone. You're right that I don't know what med. school is like and how much work goes into getting residencies. I just blurted out stuff that doctors explained to me when I was talking w/ them. Am I insecure? Yes. If I have the drive, I can do well. But, if I'm in a stressful/competitive environment, I do only ok. I'm not able to excel and I get nervous. In college, I want to have more fun than I did in high school and I want to work in a less stressful environment. My choices come down to the tough ivies to graduate from and this program. I asked you guys because I really didn't know what to do. I liked the "Penn" name and doctors that I knew liked the med. program because they knew people who did it and are well off. Most people here seem to go for Penn so I guess I could do that. My parents want the program so I'm stuck. I'll decide I guess. Thanks for everyone's help and I didn't mean to make everyone pissed off at me lol.
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Lemme guess - you're indian. You should have stated that at the outset and saved everyone a lot of time. Have fun in Troy. Start loading up on SSRI's now, they take at least 2 weeks to kick in.
Hope that Helps
P 'Damned Indians' ShankOut
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Remember: "most people here" = just a few people who have chosen to post.
You have listened to your parents and you have listened to another side presented on this forum.
Have you listened to yourself? 😍
Just curious-->what would YOU chose?
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seriously, just listen to your parents and you second guess your choice or are miserable, then blame the heck out of your parents. That is the only way out of this since you are so insecure. I was half-joking about the part where you guilt trip them into buying you a car, but heck, that might work!!!
Hey everyone thanks for responses. And, btw, what are SSRI's. I mean I liked the RPI campus, people, and professors A LOT so it's not like they're forcing me. Penn was also really, really nice. I don't I could really go wrong. All the students I talked to loved both places. The day I went to RPI, it was the best weather in months so that must be a good sign (high 70's and very sunny). The students/profs were really enthusiastic and all the students that i talked to in their dorms loved the school. I think my parents know best.
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Become familiar with google.com. SSRI=selective seratonin reuptake inhibitors (i.e. Prozac). Come February: Concrete+****e Weather=SSRI's. Goodluck, sport.
Hope that Helps
P 'In therapy since 82' ShankOut
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May I suggest 5-HTP instead of SSRI's ...you'll avoid that fuzzy feeling that prozac can give you, and you'll keep your libido---with all that free time at RPI, you'll have to find something to do 
Why do your guys think that I'll not have a great time in college? I talked w/ a couple kids that went through the program and who are presently in the program and they said it's nice. It's not that I'll have so much freetime, it's that I won't have so much stress and worry. I'll be a little more relaxed and I want to join a few clubs and start stuff and do something different. I'm going to party more and I'll have tons of fun. Penn is nice, but a pain in the ass to go through. Engineering isn't easy and the MCAT's are a pain in the ass to study for w/ stress. In the program, I can take them for the hell of it. If I mess up, I'm not screwed.
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drdoctor, try not to worry about what people on this site say. Who *knows* why a stranger on SDN would tell you that you aren't going to have a good time in college. If you want to have a good college experience, you can make it happen. Try to relax, meet some new people, take non-science classes to open your eyes to the world out there, and enjoy living on your own.
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Honestly, once you're in med school your undergrad becomes pretty irrelevant in terms of prestige so don't worry about it. Unless I really didn't like the affiliated university, probably the only place I'd choose over a guaranteed yet non-binding med school acceptance is Harvard. If you're certain that you do want to become a doctor, you'll be fine. 🙂 Just be sure to take advantage of your "freedom", have fun and do what interests *you* while at RPI, and let the chips fall where they may with respect to applying to other med schools. If you end up at a highly ranked place great, and if not you'll still become a great doctor at Albany if you apply yourself. I really don't think there's much of a difference once you're out of the top 15-20 med schools.
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Having gone through an accelerated medical program and even written a book telling students how to apply to them, I feel obligated to leave some sort of reply to this mammoth of a thread.
The bottom line is that you need to live with your decision and weigh the benefits vs. risks. The complication lies in the fact that you will not fully understand the effects your decision until many years later. So, it seems like a cache 22. And add in the factor that people will tell you all sorts of positive and negative things and you'll second guess yourself often. So my best advice is to make a decision and stick with it.
You need to weed through a lot of the rhetoric and talk that people throw out there. You'll have people that say, "Yeah, I didn't apply to those programs because I wanted a full college experience." That translates into, "I goofed off in high school and the thought of even submitting an application to these programs was a pure dream." In essence, if you haven't gone through a program, you can't justifiably evaluate them. There are a lot of jealous/bitter people out there that haven't gotten into medical schools, or took them 3 or 4 tries who hate the fact that you had an early guarantee. My first few months in medical school were spent being evaluated by 26 and 27 year olds who would constantly tell me I was too young to be in medical school, too immature, that I lacked a college experience, etc. etc. Now, as I'm entering my 4th year, they have long forgotten that I'm 5 years younger than them and consider me a peer. Did I know this was going to happen? NO. Did I let their doubts make me doubt myself? NO.
I'd be lying if I said I never thought, "What if I had gone to that IVY?" But honestly, in my class there are people from Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford...except they took the long way and are now at the same point as me.
Simply put, everything has a sacrifice and a gain. Like in medicine, you have to weight the benefits and risks given the situation. People are mistaken when they say that programs are "intense" and "prevent you from having a college experience." It is what you make of it. So, this debate will continue to rage on, I'm sure. People in Ivies will continue to think they are right. People in programs will think they have it easy. Who's truly right? I don't think there's an answer for that.
Anyway, good luck in your medical pursuit. The most important thing regardless of where you get your education is to be the best, competent, and most professional physician you can be. Because if you're not, people's lives are affected. And that's the bottom line.
The bottom line is that you need to live with your decision and weigh the benefits vs. risks. The complication lies in the fact that you will not fully understand the effects your decision until many years later. So, it seems like a cache 22. And add in the factor that people will tell you all sorts of positive and negative things and you'll second guess yourself often. So my best advice is to make a decision and stick with it.
You need to weed through a lot of the rhetoric and talk that people throw out there. You'll have people that say, "Yeah, I didn't apply to those programs because I wanted a full college experience." That translates into, "I goofed off in high school and the thought of even submitting an application to these programs was a pure dream." In essence, if you haven't gone through a program, you can't justifiably evaluate them. There are a lot of jealous/bitter people out there that haven't gotten into medical schools, or took them 3 or 4 tries who hate the fact that you had an early guarantee. My first few months in medical school were spent being evaluated by 26 and 27 year olds who would constantly tell me I was too young to be in medical school, too immature, that I lacked a college experience, etc. etc. Now, as I'm entering my 4th year, they have long forgotten that I'm 5 years younger than them and consider me a peer. Did I know this was going to happen? NO. Did I let their doubts make me doubt myself? NO.
I'd be lying if I said I never thought, "What if I had gone to that IVY?" But honestly, in my class there are people from Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford...except they took the long way and are now at the same point as me.
Simply put, everything has a sacrifice and a gain. Like in medicine, you have to weight the benefits and risks given the situation. People are mistaken when they say that programs are "intense" and "prevent you from having a college experience." It is what you make of it. So, this debate will continue to rage on, I'm sure. People in Ivies will continue to think they are right. People in programs will think they have it easy. Who's truly right? I don't think there's an answer for that.
Anyway, good luck in your medical pursuit. The most important thing regardless of where you get your education is to be the best, competent, and most professional physician you can be. Because if you're not, people's lives are affected. And that's the bottom line.
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Azygous,
Perhaps if you'd pursued a liberal arts education you'd know that the phrase is "Catch-22", not cache 22. "Catch-22" is a famous novel by Joseph Heller about a group of American airmen in the Italian campaign of World War II. Heller made up the term; he defined "Catch-22" as the rule that you couldn't be discharged from the military for being insane if you pursued discharge for insanity. (I believe that this would be a Section Eight discharge) Hence, only the crazy man wouldn't want the discharge. See the problem?
Perhaps if you'd pursued a liberal arts education you'd know that the phrase is "Catch-22", not cache 22. "Catch-22" is a famous novel by Joseph Heller about a group of American airmen in the Italian campaign of World War II. Heller made up the term; he defined "Catch-22" as the rule that you couldn't be discharged from the military for being insane if you pursued discharge for insanity. (I believe that this would be a Section Eight discharge) Hence, only the crazy man wouldn't want the discharge. See the problem?
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Hi there,
I don't know if this helps at all, but I turned down a BS/MD program for a differnet school. I am SO glad that I made this decision. I am extremely thankful for the opportunities that I had to explore other fields. Personally, had I know that had I matriculated in the BA/MD program I would have never considered any other options other than medicine. Now four years later, I am heading to a much better medical school, I am much more confident that I am entering medicine for the right reasons, and I had an amazing undergrad experience. The ridiculously intellectual schools are not environments in which it would be healthy to spend your entire lives (talk about a warped reality) but four years there is an experience I wouldn't trade for anything.
I don't know if this helps at all, but I turned down a BS/MD program for a differnet school. I am SO glad that I made this decision. I am extremely thankful for the opportunities that I had to explore other fields. Personally, had I know that had I matriculated in the BA/MD program I would have never considered any other options other than medicine. Now four years later, I am heading to a much better medical school, I am much more confident that I am entering medicine for the right reasons, and I had an amazing undergrad experience. The ridiculously intellectual schools are not environments in which it would be healthy to spend your entire lives (talk about a warped reality) but four years there is an experience I wouldn't trade for anything.
Thanks alot everyone for their opinions. Azygous, I'm guessing you went to the Lehigh/Drexel program. What did you think of your undergrad experience and do you think you made the right decision turning down HYP and other great schools? Do you think you'll be able to get competitive residencies in competitive fields coming out of Drexel Medical School? Thanks alot Azygous for your post. It really was inspiring. And, thanks Merlin also for your opinion.
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Um okay. It's quite obvious that I exchanged the word cache for catch. Sorry, I was a little tired. However, the phrase "cache-22" does also exist. Why don't you go look that up and get back to us? I'm sure your liberal arts education gives you great researching skills. Couldn't you find any other errors in my post? Don't hate so much. Thanks for the book report though, it brought back memories of third grade.
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Like I said, there were points where I was like, "Did I make the right decision?" Med school itself is quite tough and frustrating on its own. Being forced to grow up super quickly was also tough. When I was 20 and a first year med student, I had deal with med school, rent payments, car payments, other bills, being in a city on my own, making new friends, losing my college friends after only 2 years. It is a big sacrifice. I remember my college friends were going to LAS VEGAS for their Senior Trip and I was studying for my STEP ONE. That really sucked at the time. To some people, that's really important. But looking back, I don't regret making that decision. Now, my college friends are in the "real world" and I'm almost done with medical school. There comes a point where we have to all grow up and move on and leave those carefree days behind. Did I want to prolong this happy time and kill myself trying to get into medical school: No. So that was my decision.
It is an individual decision. I saw the time saved to be crucial to my decision. I can put those two years I saved toward a longer residency, I'll be done much earlier and in practice, etc. I always knew where I was headed as well.
As far as competitiveness, that is a harder question to answer. You'll definitely get bonus points for going to Harvard Med or Hopkins med. Will it get you the residency? I don't think so. Can you go to a lesser name allopathic school and land residencies where the big boys end up? I think so. It all depends on how well you do on STEP 1, how you do in your classes, and the connections you make. Don't worry about all this now. This is years down the line. You just need to take it a year at a time and try and do well in your classes, enjoy college, and meet your requirements. IF you think too far ahead, you'll lose your perspective and struggle. All right... back to work.
Thanks for the reply when you're really busy. The program's 7 years so it's not too bad and there like around 20 people in the program so i'll be with them the entire time. The program seems to be the way to go.
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I was making this decision several years ago between a BA/md program or JHU/Columbia. I ended up going to JHU and and had a good time there. Just work hard and you will be fine.
Thanks for the reply. I was accepted to JHU too, but it is very, very competitive there and I could not survive in such a fierce environment. Yeah some people may say that it's not cutthroat, but so many more people say that it is. Why go through that stress and lose my college experience when I can enjoy college AND get into med. school the easier way. The ivies/top schools are overrated. They provide good contacts, but of what use is this for med. school? I can get the same contacts from other schools too.
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I'm guessing the ignorance in the above statement is a product of your naivete. Have fun at RIP. If you keep telling yourself over and over that it's every bit as good as Penn, then it must be true.
PS: For an Asian/Indian, you don't have much confidence in yourself. Take it from me, the other Asians are going to blow you out of the water once you get to med school. I don't think I'd want a "neurosurgeon" who doubted himself so much.
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You will meet much more interesting people at Penn. I'd go there.
Wrigley
Wrigley
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seriously, how hard do you think college and/or the MCAT will be? it's a lot of hype. i mean, yes, you do need to study, but i went to a state school for college and had a whole hell of a lot of fun and did just fine on the MCAT (although not > 34 like your apparent requirement) and am now going to a top 20 med school. and since when have you had to get > 30 to get into med school? you need to relax a little bit and just do what you want to. don't worry so much, ok?
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I didn't read the whole thread, so I don't know if this has been brought up, but how well do you like Albany? I know a lot of people in the PLME program at brown who did not want to stay in Providence for 8 years of their life.
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Cool to see an update 13 years later. BS/MD isn't for everybody obviously but it's a good system overall.
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[deleted]
Didn't realize this was so old.
Didn't realize this was so old.
bs/md is definitely not for everyone - had several people drop out, but with the right mindset, its great. I did residency along with people who did the ivy league college/med school route. I also learned along the way that pedigree has absolutely nothing to do with how good of a doctor/surgeon you are. I ran into med students/residents in various specialties who on paper sounded fantastic but were just terrible at their job. Goes to show you that at the end of the day, what matters most is how hard you work and how well you do.
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If you know for a fact right now that you want to be a physician, and you know 100% that you will not change your mind, then take the BS/MD program and run with it.
If you choose an Ivy, you would need to work your butt off for 4 years, apply to med schools a few years down the road, and work on every part of your application. And every year there are perfectly good candidates who still don't get in anywhere. It seems like a lot of stress to deal with.
With the BS/MD program, you don't need to waste any time studying for the MCAT, and you can just focus on doing things you want to do. You have the guaranteed spot, so you won't feel stressed out any time you get a bad grade or you feel you have a weakness in your resume. You also said that you could get a ton of research done there, which is also very good when you think about residencies several years down the road. Plus, without the headache of having to apply to med schools and taking care of everything, you can put time towards things you enjoy doing during undergrad.
I know a lot of people are not a fan of BS/MD programs, but I think if you're set on medicine and know for a fact that you will not change your mind, they are a perfectly viable choice for the right people. If you have some doubt, though, and you are not yet 100%, then I suggest going to an Ivy because if you do decide to do something else, you won't be locked in to a medicine program.
If you choose an Ivy, you would need to work your butt off for 4 years, apply to med schools a few years down the road, and work on every part of your application. And every year there are perfectly good candidates who still don't get in anywhere. It seems like a lot of stress to deal with.
With the BS/MD program, you don't need to waste any time studying for the MCAT, and you can just focus on doing things you want to do. You have the guaranteed spot, so you won't feel stressed out any time you get a bad grade or you feel you have a weakness in your resume. You also said that you could get a ton of research done there, which is also very good when you think about residencies several years down the road. Plus, without the headache of having to apply to med schools and taking care of everything, you can put time towards things you enjoy doing during undergrad.
I know a lot of people are not a fan of BS/MD programs, but I think if you're set on medicine and know for a fact that you will not change your mind, they are a perfectly viable choice for the right people. If you have some doubt, though, and you are not yet 100%, then I suggest going to an Ivy because if you do decide to do something else, you won't be locked in to a medicine program.
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So cool to see the update and that everything worked out! Glad you got to where you wanted to go. What specialty did you end up choosing if you don't mind sharing?
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You were super aggressive/high achieving as a high school student. If you were to go back to that time would you tell yourself to chill out a bit or would you still keep your nose to the grindstone?
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I think that aggression was just because I had looked at various career options, volunteered in different fields, and talked to different people, and made that choice. If I went back in time, I wouldn't do anything different. I pursued a very non-stressful route, had an awesome time in college without doing the typical activities required for application building. I chose a field early on in med school after talking to seniors. Residency is brutal as is any surgery residency. Now my lifestyle is excellent, have way more free time than my anesthesia, internal medicine, radiology colleagues. The beauty of certain fields (derm, ENT, urology, ophtho) is that you don't need to be in the hospital for call, you're not required to be on call at several hospitals, its primarily outpatient work, and its very predictable clinic schedules. You can make it as aggressive and difficult as you want doing intense cases, academic research, teaching etc or as simple as you want. Probably the reason why the above fields are very competitive in comparison to other fields.
I think the key is to take initiative, talk to your seniors, find out why they choose what, look at trends and ask yourself well why is that field competitive. I wondered the same thing. Who would want to pick ear wax for a profession. Clearly the field does not just do that or people with the highest step I scores wouldn't be pursuing it. Shadow early on - don't just look at the medical part, but find out what else you can do in that profession - is research an option, hospital management? Is it an academic type field only or can you do purely outpatient, adults or kids, whats the lifestyle, are the attendings happy everyday, do they have good social/family lives? All that stuff doesn't matter when you're 23 or 24, but makes a big difference later on.
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I don't really see too much problems with BS/MD programs. If you know you want medicine, then just do it. If you don't like medicine just drop from the program. I liked medicine even at the age of 18, even with all that exploration and rough times in my life (family member dying after a coma), I still came back to it as a 30 something medical student. My only regret is that I wish I had the brains to handle college along with the stressors of life. I would probably have started medical school a lot earlier in life.
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Take the combined program and don't look back. It will not only save time but also money. I've been to a top UC, community college and now a reputable osteo school. The best education I ever got was at CC. The name these places carry are because of research and endowment. It has nothing to do with how well they educate and train you. It'll also have no impact on the residency you can get. You can easily do this combined program and then go to mass general or UCSF for your training.
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Exactly as stated above. What difference does it make if you didn't go to Hopkins for medical school, when you went to Hopkins for residency instead. Mid-tier MD school is enough of a booster for more reputable places. Well, none the less it is great to know that OP followed through with his combined degree and is doing great as an attending. Goes to show that even at 18, doesn't always necessarily mean you are too immature to make a choice. Even if you decide on something else in the middle of the BS degree, you can still drop from it.
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So...guaranteed med school with a normal chance of acceptance at a more highly ranked med school. Plus better financial aid and fewer years paying for school.
vs
normal chance of acceptance at med school with perhaps a slightly increased chance at a more highly ranked school?
I don't know what this board is smoking, but it seems pretty clear-cut to me to pick the combined program. It commits you to nothing, eliminates very few opportunities for you, decreases debt, and gives you a guaranteed minimum level of success.
vs
normal chance of acceptance at med school with perhaps a slightly increased chance at a more highly ranked school?
I don't know what this board is smoking, but it seems pretty clear-cut to me to pick the combined program. It commits you to nothing, eliminates very few opportunities for you, decreases debt, and gives you a guaranteed minimum level of success.
