PhD/PsyD Help Me Decide My Future

[Jsbeautiful05]

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I have been in a masters in counseling psychology program for the past year and a half. I am halfway through the program and now they are changing the program next quarter to being CACREP accredited and it is adding another 6 courses and 500 hours of internship to my program. I can stick with the counseling psych masters and be done by next summer or move to the new CACREP program and finish next spring. However, the new program will give me a masters in mental health counseling instead of counseling psychology. I need help deciding between the new and old programs. My goal is to get a PHD in psychology after my masters. Does anyone know about the salary or job success rates of have an LPC versus LMHC? We are military so we move around a lot so I would need to do an online PHD or Psy.D program, has anyone experienced a good online PHD or Psy.D program? Any advice or direction would be wonderful.

 

[Lisa44201]

Please search the unpteen threads cautioning against the vast majority of online PhD / PsyD programs. Finding good training in a purely online format for a job requiring face-to-face time... insert unicorn metaphor here, unless you'd go for a PhD in Experimental (still a rarity).

 

[Jsbeautiful05]

Please search the unpteen threads cautioning against the vast majority of online PhD / PsyD programs. Finding good training in a purely online format for a job requiring face-to-face time... insert unicorn metaphor here, unless you'd go for a PhD in Experimental (still a rarity).

I would love to Lisa, but being military we move every few years and I cannot start a program unless it is online and I can finish it from multiple states. I understand the need for Face to Face training and I would love this, but there is not even a college anywhere near me that offers a PhD or PsyD program. I would hate to give up my dream just because I am bonded to my husbands military career. Thanks

 

[Pragma]

I would love to Lisa, but being military we move every few years and I cannot start a program unless it is online and I can finish it from multiple states. I understand the need for Face to Face training and I would love this, but there is not even a college anywhere near me that offers a PhD or PsyD program. I would hate to give up my dream just because I am bonded to my husbands military career. Thanks

I can't offer you any positive review about any online PhD or PsyD program. Unfortunately, to get appropriate training in this field, one must make sacrifices (e.g., geographic locale in an appropriate area, and high liklihood of having to move somewhere else for an accredited internship). I think online programs are doing a disservice to the field and wish they would all close down. Doctoral education is not about convenience.

What's wrong with the CACREP program? That is a good accrediting body. I wouldn't get caught up on the title of your degree - graduating from a CACREP program will carry more weight for you than having a "masters in counseling psychology" will.

 

[WisNeuro]

Yeah, I have yet to see a credible online PhD in clinical psych. If you go that route, you are setting yourself up for failure at the internship level. Also consider that internship will require you to do a year of clinical work, also a situation in which you'd have to move (if you want a good match chance most likely). Unfortunately, to get the requisite training, a lot of sacrifices are usually made (time, moving, etc). What exactly is it about the Ph.D that is the dream job? Is it academia? If so, you're still looking at moving to find a position. Is it just doing therapy? You can do that with your master's in many cases.

 

[mishpug]

If you are going to be moving a lot, I would highly recommend the CACREP accreditation. Most states base their licensure requirements for master's level clinicians off CACREP and will require much more documentation/scrutinization for a non-accredited program.

I know that you said you plan to go on to your PhD, but from what I have seen what most doctoral programs value about graduate degrees (if anything) is additional research experience. I doubt counseling psychology vs. mental health counseling will make a major difference for most programs. I am not familiar with online programs at all, though, so YMMV.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Online training at the doctoral level for any area related to psychology (Clinical, Counseling, etc) is insufficient for learning and will close many doors for any graduate from those programs. There may not be a viable option for your situation, so an alternative route will probably be needed.

 

[erg923]

I would love to Lisa, but being military we move every few years and I cannot start a program unless it is online and I can finish it from multiple states. I understand the need for Face to Face training and I would love this, but there is not even a college anywhere near me that offers a PhD or PsyD program. I would hate to give up my dream just because I am bonded to my husbands military career. Thanks

Life is bout choices. Some choices affect the viability of other choices/desires. I am not sure what else you would expect to hear? At present, your lifestyle is not amenable to the intensive nature of doctoral training in his field.

Would you say the same thing if you wantd to go to med school? My guess is that you would not. You would likley say "well darn, I either have to do somethin else or make the sacrifie that everyone else makes when they choose to attend medical school and park myself somone for 4 years"

 

[Pragma]

If you are going to be moving a lot, I would highly recommend the CACREP accreditation. Most states base their licensure requirements for master's level clinicians off CACREP and will require much more documentation/scrutinization for a non-accredited program.

This is actually inaccurate. Less than half of states will allow automatic approval of coursework requirements if someone went to a CACREP program last time I checked. As far as I know, states don't base their requirements off of CACREP. There are other accrediting bodies too, although one of them merged I hear. It is a large accrediting body and is very politically active.

 

[erg923]

This is actually inaccurate. Less than half of states will allow automatic approval of coursework requirements if someone went to a CACREP program last time I checked. As far as I know, states don't base their requirements off of CACREP. There are other accrediting bodies too, although one of them merged I hear. It is a large accrediting body and is very politically active.

What might be more important to note is that it is NOT possible to get licensed in my state if you attended an online program. I imagine many other states have this exclusion as well. I just took my state jurispudence exam last month, and if I remember correctly, you have to have at least one year of the classes "on-site" (in a classroom). So, I guess, the "hybrid model" is as far as my state licesneing board is willing to go.

Can someone explain how practica are handled in these "online programs" if you move around like the poster said she was. How do you get practica? How are the sites approved and monitored by the program? How is there any oversight and communciation by the DCT? Having such an enormous disconnect between academic training and clincial training/supervision doesn't seem feasible to me.

 

[JackD]

I don't understand how one could learn something so hands on, like clinical psychology, over the internet. Diagnosing and treating psychological conditions is so tricky, to say the least. The online programs seem to make out to be that you just read a few books, watch some videos, go to a hotel a few weekends a year and bam! you are ready to conquer the world. Learning clinical skills, things that have 1,000,000 nuances involved, needs to be taught and demonstrated, from the start of your training, by people that have been through it all countless times before. You need to have that in person, not on some scripted video or typed up by a random professor living thousands of miles away, on a message board. Throughout my time at med school, there were so many "tangents" that professors went off on about their real world experiences that turn out to be so valuable. Sure you can learn some of the textbook information online and that would not be much of an issue but working with real patients is not the same as reading a book.

Perhaps you have some of that experience via the masters program but there are so many other issues. The online programs cost a lot of money and the pay for clinical psychologists is not the best (which is very unfortunate), which is why many of your future colleagues will have attended "free" PhD programs at established universities. Of course that is assuming that you are one of the minority of online doctorate psychologists that gets into the right internship and can get a licence to practice.

The online doctorates are so fraught with risk. Sure it can sound very appealing, with "flexible hours" and for people that move around a lot but the few advantages are greatly outweighed by the mountain of problems. Stick with the masters program. You might not get the fancy title of "doctor" but I would much rather have a masters degree and a job than to be able to call myself "Dr. [Add your last name here]" and be chronically unemployed.

 

[WisNeuro]

I don't understand how one could learn something so hands on, like clinical psychology, over the internet.

The simple answer is that you don't. You are just setting yourself up to be a subpar psychologist. It's a disservice to the field as a whole, and more importantly, to our patients.

 

[woodstock219]

While I am somewhat of a proponent of online schooling in general, I must agree wholeheartedly with the overall theme of the other posters so far: if you attempt to go the online route you are risking a very low upside with a HUGE potential downside. However, I would like to provide an alternative to think about.

While it might still be very hard, brick and mortar schooling isn't automatically a non-option for you. As someone who is applying with a family and looking at a long distance move, my wife and I have realized there is a chance she will need to remain behind for a year or two before moving to wherever I'm going to school. While this isn't ideal by any means, we have both realized it can still physically be done. Maybe you should consider flipping my concept and seeing if your spouse would accept a situation where when the next move occurs you simply stay in place for the last couple or few years to finish up. Like many of the other posters have stated, you have to weigh out your desire for the PhD against the challenges facing you and make your own decision on your future. However, while I will still say it is your decision, I will repeat that the online option has an incredibly small chance of getting you what you want, unless you wish to simply have the name of Dr. in front and have no desire to actually ever practice in the field in any capacity. At the end of an online program you will have racked up tens of thousands of dollars in debt, be receiving a degree from an organization that the vast majority of internship sites (let alone employers) will not accept, and will have received substandard training which does not prepare you for the work you wish to do.

If you truly want to, and with the proper support from your spouse (remember, as a military spouse there are likely a ton of sacrifices you've made for him/her, maybe it's time the sacrificing went in favor of you), you can most certainly do this. But, take the time to make an informed, logical decision and get creative with how you're going to handle it. Good luck, and I wish you all the best!

 

[erg923]

While I am somewhat of a proponent of online schooling in general, I must agree wholeheartedly with the overall theme of the other posters so far: if you attempt to go the online route you are risking a very low upside with a HUGE potential downside. However, I would like to provide an alternative to think about.

While it might still be very hard, brick and mortar schooling isn't automatically a non-option for you. As someone who is applying with a family and looking at a long distance move, my wife and I have realized there is a chance she will need to remain behind for a year or two before moving to wherever I'm going to school. While this isn't ideal by any means, we have both realized it can still physically be done. Maybe you should consider flipping my concept and seeing if your spouse would accept a situation where when the next move occurs you simply stay in place for the last couple or few years to finish up. Like many of the other posters have stated, you have to weigh out your desire for the PhD against the challenges facing you and make your own decision on your future. However, while I will still say it is your decision, I will repeat that the online option has an incredibly small chance of getting you what you want, unless you wish to simply have the name of Dr. in front and have no desire to actually ever practice in the field in any capacity. At the end of an online program you will have racked up tens of thousands of dollars in debt, be receiving a degree from an organization that the vast majority of internship sites (let alone employers) will not accept, and will have received substandard training which does not prepare you for the work you wish to do.

If you truly want to, and with the proper support from your spouse (remember, as a military spouse there are likely a ton of sacrifices you've made for him/her, maybe it's time the sacrificing went in favor of you), you can most certainly do this. But, take the time to make an informed, logical decision and get creative with how you're going to handle it. Good luck, and I wish you all the best!

This is good and all, but one of the implict messages in our responses is that, generally, this poster probably (and others who want Ph,Ds online) simply....wants a Ph.D. I dont get the feeling there is alot of substance behind it. Your desire for a phd is moot if you dont know why you want it and need it. There is no articulation of interest in substantive scientific questions/inquiry or curiosity that makes the PhD. an appopriate and needed academic pursuit.

 

[JackD]

The simple answer is that you don't. You are just setting yourself up to be a subpar psychologist. It's a disservice to the field as a whole, and more importantly, to our patients.

I personally would have so many concerns about referring a patient to someone that graduated from an online psychology program. I have never seen any research that shows that someone from an online program is on an equal footing as someone that graduated from a traditional school (if such a thing exists, I would be interested in reading it), which if they aren't, I might be sending someone with life or death issues to a practitioner that is underprepared. Why should I risk that if I have 1000 other psychologists and mental health experts in my area to refer to, who were trained in person?

There is also the patient perception of me sending someone to a psychologist who got their degree online. Are they going to think that this therapist simply paid $10,000 and then printed their diploma off 5 minutes later? Are they going to think that I am in cahoots with a fake doctor? What is that going to do to my reputation, if I send someone to a Walden or Capella graduate? Sure, I know that going to those schools doesn't involve printing off fake degrees and that their doctorates are real but if a psychologist that relieved their degree online set up shop in my neighborhood, I would say they are on their own. I would not refer patients to them or start a professional relationship in any way. And I would warn anyone considering one of these programs, most other MD's are going to feel the exact same way.