-
CycleTrack and SDN are teaming up to make medical school admissions more transparent and accessible! Read the announcement to learn how we’re supporting the future of CycleTrack’s free application-tracking tools .
Help me help someone with ivermectin
Started by Lashler9054
Get help with your application
Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.
- Status
I don’t have the studies on hand, but vanay prasad MD has a couple videos on YouTube going over some recent international studies suggesting that myocarditis risk in young men under 40 is higher than we initially thought, particularly with Moderna and particularly after the second shot. We actually do need to probably rethink the strategy in that demographic.
Research your source first—that physician had posted some whacky stuff and clearly has an agenda. He is completely unreliable and would avoid reading his interpretation of anything.
Second look at the absolute numbers before buying in to his hype. We are taking fractions of a hundredth of a percent getting hospitalized for myocarditis and ignoring the unknown benefits of protecting against long covid. There is no controversy here.
Too bad they’re promoting molnupiravir, which honestly sucks imo and causes a lot of problems (rightly contraindicated for pregnancy and under 18s, but frankly the drug sucks and we need something good like Paxlovid)For whatever reason Merck is not interested in making money selling ivermectin to treat Covid. Maybe they have too much money or it’s a global conspiracy. You’d think they’d be interested in crushing Pfizer and moderna.
Merck Statement on Ivermectin use During the COVID-19 Pandemic - Merck.com
KENILWORTH, N.J., Feb. 4, 2021 – Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of...www.merck.com
Paxlovid has good data but it isn't without its side effects. Pretty sure if I were double vaccinated/boosted and otherwise healthy I wouldn't take it unless I were feeling truly awful.
There is extremely low mortality in this cohort, especially those with no co-morbid condition. But you're not approaching the question scientifically. You're applying a cost with regard to a cohort who wouldn't otherwise die from viral cause nor would they likely die from the vaccine. If in fact the vaccine prevents the death of 10 completely healthy people out of 5 million who otherwise would be alive, its done its job.
I agree with your general statement, though I can’t validate your numbers specifically. I didn’t say don’t vaccinate that demographic and let COVID run wild, just that we should rethink the one size fits all strategy for vaccination. Maybe keep it to Pfizer, or spread the first and second dose out more for those folks at risk of side effects from the vaccine but at lower risk from COVID relative to other demographics. Or maybe let’s not recommend boosters across the age spectrum simply because antibodies wane when we KNOW that T cell immunity is there, especially healthy young people. Just because it’s difficult to measure T cell immunity, doesn’t mean we need to jab people into oblivion to keep their antibody titer high. I think we are at a point where we need to consider some more nuance with this that’s all.
I thought about this for a while and speaking as someone who is triple vaccinated and recently having covid-like symptoms, i think i’ll take the gamble with Paxlovid unless vaccines are updated and improved on further
With half the country unvaccinated I cannot disagree more strongly. Nuance validates antivax anti-science viewpoints because every one of the people who aren't vaccinated think some sort of special exception applies to them when it doesn't. Presenting a united consistent message is absolutely crucial. If we were sitting at measles level vaccination rates and people were actually receptive to expert opinion I think you would be right but we live in a much ****tier version of the world.
There are probably other interventions that could be made with 130 million $ than could prevent more than 10 deaths / year without altering the freedom of millions of people.
We were living with a sanitary pass obligation (were people could still do more thing than going to the grocery store if they had a negative test) and we are now moving towards a vaccination passport which makes no sense since vaccinated people can still get infected.
Question for the pro-boosters: do you believe that vaccination ×n is the way out of the pandemic and why?
How is this difficult to comprehend?
The antivaxxers aren’t going to change. They will earn their immunity through infection with all of its potential long term problems or end up dead, that is the sad reality of where we are at right now. The medical community using nuance doesn’t change that. instead we maximize the benefits and minimize the harm to those that are willing to get vaccinated. This is absolutely a goal worth striving for at this and any point of the pandemic. In fact we will regret not doing it now while it’s new. Waiting years to introduce nuance will wreak much more havoc with respect to trust in the medical and public health community. Let me be clear: it’s a mistake and very short sighted to not to use nuance in dosing the vaccines.
What are you worried about exactly? What nuance do you think is missing that is going to inflict some great generational harm? I have seen exactly 0 cases of myocarditis from the vaccine. I have seen far more people in the 25-40 age group hospitalized from COVID. How about you?
D
deleted87051
No it’s not the way out. Vaccine alone is not enough.
This is the actual way out. Rinse and repeat as necessary. They have 825,000 fewer dead people than the US. It’s what can be accomplished when you have leadership not beholden to the next election.
Xi'an lockdown brings heartbreak and dysfunction as political pressure to contain outbreak grows | CNN
As the locked down Chinese city of Xi'an claimed victory this week in its fight to contain the community spread of Covid-19, harrowing tales of loss and despair have emerged on social media -- highlighting the immense human cost of China's zero-Covid policy.
Last edited by a moderator:
I feel like we are talking past each other. I agree. They should be vaccinated. I’m simply stating that vaccines are held to a higher standard than normal treatments because they are given to everyone. We should respect that. There is emerging evidence that the rates of myocarditis from the vaccine in this population is possibly higher than from the virus itself, particularly with Moderna and particularly with the second shot, we should look at (ie study) slicing and dicing a little bit in the way we administer to certain populations. But the first thing we need to do is at least acknowledge that this is a legit problem because it is. I certainly don’t think we’d create more deaths by doing this and by acknowledging this limitation and correcting it I think we actually restore trust.
Not doing this goes against everything I learned in medical school, we always tailor treatments to the patient based on risk factors. And in fact not doing so could be considered malpractice in certain situations.
We don’t have time to acquire population wide rcts done correctly that take years, this pandemic is happening now. The signal you are referencing is almost at a case report level, it isn’t like every other 30 year old is suffering permanent crippling cardiac damage. We don’t even understand PASC and the role vaccination plays in that disease. Or how large the effect of not vaccinating is contributing to viral evolution.
Don’t act like it is ever malpractice to vaccinate a young person this is a huge part of the disinformation problem. It is malpractice to not vaccinate young people on some vague risk of a disease that is occuring so infrequently that we have to study an entire nation of tens of millions of people to see enough of it to even find a rate.
Vaccination is the way to keep people out of the hospital
It's pretty clear that the virus is here to stay. But it doesn't have to kill so many people, leave so many people with week/month/lifelong sequelae, or clog up so many hospitals that still more people receive delayed or substandard care.
Edit - trying to be less snarky 🙂
Some of you continue to point out the most basic considerations as though they haven't already been but a single part of a continual, complicated risk-benefit calculation that is evolving as more data accumulates.
The reality is that we simply draw a different line as to where/whether personal autonomy should be sacrificed and mandates enforced (particularly in select, young populations!).
These differences are deeply rooted within views on the rights/responsibilities of the individual vs the collective, our views on liberty, perhaps even whether ourselves/our family member(s) served/fought/died for those liberties.
Again, the egos of those who think they know what's best for everyone else explain why this whole mess has (irreparably?) eroded trust in the healthcare system.
Last edited:
Where were these long rambling diatribes about liberty and our dead vets and erosion of trust back when almost every kid in the country was forced to get a novel'ish varicella vaccine to go to school
Here's the thing, that's not what I'm seeing though.
If you just believe that vaccine mandates are on the whole a bad thing, just say that and move on. I would disagree with you, but that's a personal/political level issue so that would be that.
Instead what we all end up seeing is people who say that but then keep trying to refute the data we have using very questionable sources or data that's already been debunked while also pushing completely unproven treatments. I can't speak for everyone but that's my biggest complaint about this.
It is here.
We are talking past each other because we have different situations in Europe and the US: high vs lowish vaccination status, low vs high obesity rate moderate vs high saturation of hospitals etc...
It's going to be hard to apply chinese measure worldwide... and can their numbers be trusted?No it’s not the way out. Vaccine alone is not enough.
This is the actual way out. Rinse and repeat as necessary. They have 825,000 fewer dead people than the US. It’s what can be accomplished when you have leadership not beholden to the next election.
Xi'an lockdown brings heartbreak and dysfunction as political pressure to contain outbreak grows | CNN
As the locked down Chinese city of Xi'an claimed victory this week in its fight to contain the community spread of Covid-19, harrowing tales of loss and despair have emerged on social media -- highlighting the immense human cost of China's zero-Covid policy.www.cnn.com
View attachment 347906
Do you think the lack of transparent, open discourse and discussion around these new vaccines has served to bolster support for the existing childhood vaccine schedule?
I find it hard to believe that some of you are actual doctors
The old ad hominem. Real intellectual we have here. (See what I did😉)
I don't believe anything China says.
And their control measures are so far to one end of the totalitarian spectrum, with terrible consequences (people trading possessions for food during lockdowns?!?), that there's really no point in discussing whether we could duplicate their control. If they even have controlled it.
That's an odd thing to say - these vaccines are the most debated and discussed and analyzed and questioned things in our country since the JFK assassination and moon landings.
One of the biggest absurdities in the last year of record-setting absurdities is the persistent steaming pile of a strawman that is "but we're not being allowed to talk about it!"
Listen for a while to Marty Makary, MD on the Peter Attia interview with ZDogg. They are intelligent physicians. Now I think they do a little too much backslapping and agreeing with one another as opposed to actual debate. I believe they are also VERY FAR removed from what is actually occurring in hospitals and ICUs with regard to COVID, but there's no doubt they're intelligent. I found listening to Marty Makary enjoyable as he really takes a deep dive with the available evidence. However, I come away disagreeing with him because a lot of therapeutics out there currently aren't powered well (budesonide is a good example and probably fluvoxamine also). And they're weirdly hard on vaccines in which you have to look at an entire population to find a small number of events like blood clots (with J&J) or myocarditis (young health males with Moderna shot #2). But I generally find they are at least looking at the data and trying to approach it with a scientific mind.
You must be more specific here. The J&J was pulled after like 5-7 events per million. The Moderna was pulled for a while in countries after concern of myocarditis in a a subset group over an entire population. There is currently concern with one particular shot (#2) with the Moderna vaccine in an age group over an entire population. There is nothing remotely powered (hcq, ivermectin, budesonide, fluvoxamine, paxlovid, etc.) like the vaccines. Nothing. There is no greater scrutiny on anything COVID related more than the vaccines.
If people say there is lack of transparency they're just not being honest.
Last edited:
When people don't have anything specific to complain about, they complain about "communication" ... it's the hard-to-refute lazy low hanging fruit of the complaint world. If there's no substance to criticize, target the delivery.
Anyone who's ever been on the receiving end of a workplace climate survey can attest to this.
Since someone mentioned myocarditis, here is the NEJM editorial on two trials describing the extremely low rate of significant complications frmo myocarditis after mRNA vaccination.
But this other doctor who compared vaccine mandates to fascism said there is a medical conspiracy about this 100% always life threatening scary sounding complication in a group of innocent young healthy people who never get sick from the virus…
10 cases of hospitalized sick myocarditis in 5 million doses… better get the black box warning out!
My problem with Zdogg and some of the people he has on like vinay prasad is that, in addition to the rest of their audience, their shows have found a niche of absolute dumbfk antivaxxers who follow them and who selectively latch on to some of their skepticism. And they are definitely making money off of these people...but they don't feel the responsibility to refute these people on air.
Zdogg et al will briefly say they're vaccinated, say or imply to their viewers that they should probably get vaccinated, but then right after that spend the vast majority of their time blowing issues out of proportion. Issues which are clickbait and which dissuade people from vaccination. Just the other day, to paraphrase, prasad was going on about how Rochelle Walinsky LIED about NO vax side effects in children because it was later revealed in INTERNAL CDC POWERPOINTS that there were actually 8 cases in 7 million doses administered. What else is she hiding??????
I mean, Jesus fking christ.
My opinion is not going to change anyone’s mind. I can’t believe we continue to have the same argument over and over again like a broken record.
My simple answer….unvaccinated are not covered under insurance for COVID related illness, unvaccinated will take a back seat to vaccinated patients for COVID related illness.
We live in a free country…. Feel free to make your own choice.
My simple answer….unvaccinated are not covered under insurance for COVID related illness, unvaccinated will take a back seat to vaccinated patients for COVID related illness.
We live in a free country…. Feel free to make your own choice.
Women's Periods May Be Late After Coronavirus Vaccination, Study Suggests
Shortly after coronavirus vaccines were rolled out about a year ago, women started reporting erratic menstrual cycles after receiving the shots. Some said their periods were late. Others reported heavier bleeding than usual or painful bleeding. Some postmenopausal women who hadn’t had a period...
Even the most left leaning of sites/print. Nevertheless, no signal here (only noise). Most assuredly more to come.
There's a wide streak of pretentious narcissism in just about every YouTuber. People who crave fame and seek to earn a living via that fame are not normal people. Actors, Instagram influencers, TikTokers, YouTubers, whatever flavor-of-the-month social media imaging platform that exists to put these people in front of the world - all of those humans deserve a wary, skeptical eye.
Also, anyone who gives himself the stage surname dog, dawg, or dogg, whose first name isn't Snoop, is a ****ing poser.
D
deleted87051
They are incredibly cynical and know exactly what they’re doing.
Especially for doctors. The more outlandish and controversial they make their views, the more attention and traffic they get which is the entire and only point.
Totally agree
D
deleted87051
“To be clear, these problems are not affecting just COVID patients, but all patients. When Swaminathan’s friends asked what they should be doing about Omicron, he advised them about boosters and masks, but also about wearing a seat belt and avoiding ladders. “You don’t want to be injured now,” he told me. “Any need to go to the emergency department is going to be a problem.” This is the bind that Americans, including vaccinated ones, now face. Even if they’re unconcerned about COVID or at low personal risk from it, they can still spread a variant that could ultimately affect them should they need medical care for anything.”
This was my feeling when I needed a medical procedure last month. Get it done, hope for no major complications, and GTFO before the next wave hit.
www.theatlantic.com
This was my feeling when I needed a medical procedure last month. Get it done, hope for no major complications, and GTFO before the next wave hit.
Hospitals Are in Serious Trouble
Omicron is inundating a health-care system that was already buckling under the cumulative toll of every previous surge.
I know this won’t change anyones mind. Came across this from a high school student’s post.
Few highlights.
- Teachers don’t want to show up, because they either have COVID or afraid of getting COVID.
- students tests positive in the school with their rapid kits but then still have to stay in school
- 90% of student conversations are about COVID.
For those of you who claims this is the new reality…. The above account IS the reality for these kids.
But getting everyone vaccinated is a nonstarter….. because it trample on peoples rights?! Com’on. Because the science is not there?! This is common sense stuff. I feel bad for all these kids who basically wasted two years of their lives, because the adults can’t get it done.
Few highlights.
- Teachers don’t want to show up, because they either have COVID or afraid of getting COVID.
- students tests positive in the school with their rapid kits but then still have to stay in school
- 90% of student conversations are about COVID.
For those of you who claims this is the new reality…. The above account IS the reality for these kids.
But getting everyone vaccinated is a nonstarter….. because it trample on peoples rights?! Com’on. Because the science is not there?! This is common sense stuff. I feel bad for all these kids who basically wasted two years of their lives, because the adults can’t get it done.
D
deleted87051
They should just lock everything down for 2weeks. It is the least costly way to get through this in terms of lives, suffering, and money. Then kids and teachers can return to school with testing. Of course it won’t happen because freedumbz.
My nephew attends a fancy junior prep school in New England. He’s still at home in DC because all the flights from DC to Hartford were cancelled this past week. It doesn’t matter anyway because all the classes were cancelled due to 50/240 students testing positive and many teachers also out sick.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Status
