Help me rank please

[Rehabber]

I have a significant other in CA and UCI being in southern cali with a nice weather is also a huge plus. I know UCI is a relatively newer program but has become very solid and structured recently. As a matter of fact I really loved UCI. However, would it still be worth giving up training that Kessler and NYC programs have to offer?

I am from Chicago so geographically I really don't have preferences.

Help me rank these 4 programs please

1. UC Irvine
2. Mt Sinai
3. NYP Columbia-Cornell
4. Kessler

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[j4pac]

Is your significant other significant? That's the question.

If it's a spouse, easy answer...go to SoCal. If it's not...be honest and realistic about the strength of your relationship. Keesler would be tough to pass up if you do decide to be in the NY area.

A 3-year hiatus from your relationship is going to be the end of that relationship in the vast majority of situations.

 

[Forward.PMnR]

Just wondering did anyone feel like choosing CC or MS over Kessler or is it just me?

 

[j4pac]

I ranked University of Wisconsin and University of Louisville over Baylor COM. People rank programs over the big 6 all the time, for one reason or another. Just make sure you are making your decisions for the right reasons. "Fun" is probably not a good reason.

 

[Kissmyabjj]

You need to go with your gut. Moving from Southern California to the NYC area, especially on a ****ty resident salary will be rough. That is in addition to moving 2000 miles away from your significant other.

Of course neither of these things matters if you fell absolutely in love with an east coast program.

 

[gamrag]

Also think about what you want to do. The big name programs are all strong in terms of inpatient and research. But most people going into PM&R these days want to focus on outpatient and procedures. I interviewed at most of the big name programs. They are all very good with inpatient training and have great research opportunities, but getting procedure numbers can be a challenge. Mayo probably is an exception. Most of the lesser well known programs have much better procedural numbers and I feel are better fit if you want to just go into private practice.

I think the big programs are best fit for people who want to be faculty and future PD or chairs and/or want to dedicated time to research and grant writing. They are not always the best fit if you just plan to go out and work in the community.

 

[Rehabber]

Thanks everyone for your input. I feel in the end it really depends on what I want to achieve in the long term and how happy my SO would be where I end up.

For those of you who threw the votes would you mind explaining the reasons for your choices?

Thanks again for all of your advice

 

[Rehabber]

Agree with above. Super 6 status is not a trump card, particularly if we're talking Kessler and Baylor, which I feel are well-regarded more for what they were than what they are.

To the OP, I'm not sure marital status is the ultimate deciding factor, and no amount of questioning from me is going to make me feel comfortable giving a firm answer to you. It's really a matter of what you value the most -- proximity to your SO vs perceived advantage from training at an NYC-area program. Also, the way you worded your post makes it sound like your SO is NOT in SoCal near Irvine.

Is this true Kessler is not as strong as it used to be? Any reasons for this thought/fact? I didn't get this feeling when I interviewed there

 

[j4pac]

Is this true Kessler is not as strong as it used to be? Any reasons for this thought/fact? I didn't get this feeling when I interviewed there

I think it's more of a case of what incoming residents want to achieve in residency. Most are NOT looking into impatient rehab, research, or academics. Most are going either for outpatient MSK, pain, or SM.

The truth is that you can find strong outpatient MSK at lots of programs.

But just because a program has an MSK ultrasound machine doesn't mean that it is on par with the big-six. One of the best things about the super programs is the complexity of cases. I know how to set up a design plan for carpal tunnel and cubital tunnel syndrome now...if I saw nothing but those types of cases in residency, it would be a let down.

Also, I think that having strong inpatient experience can add to your outpatient ability. Not to mention that it'll give you another skill. If you were trying to find a trade school to teach you to be a handyman...how would you feel if they only taught you how to use a hammer, but didn't cover plumming and electrical? One of the great attributes of PM&R is its diversity. If the evidence and/or reimbursements for pain turn to crap...you could do outpatient MSK. If EMG/NCS becomes an obsolete archaic torture tool...you can do SM. If outpatient PM&R in general becomes unprofitable, you can do inpatient rehab. It's nice to be a handyman with more than one tool on your toolbelt.

 

[colourmebadd]

Is this true Kessler is not as strong as it used to be? Any reasons for this thought/fact? I didn't get this feeling when I interviewed there

Perceived lack of ambition and general academic-ness of the residents I met at Kessler, numerous residents from Caribbean schools, less than stellar fellowship match given their name. Sure they are still the biggest name in the mid-Atlantic, with high number of complex cases that make for good learning, so I'm not saying it's bottom of the barrel. But I don't think they're catching the big guns in the field like they uses to... But you have to realize claims about relative strength/reputation are ALL subjective, and I do not claim my opinions as fact.

It's difficult to know what it was like back in the day, but I think a lot of other programs are asserting themselves as worthy replacements in the Super 6 -- UPMC comes to mind

 

[j4pac]

It is surprising to me that people never include JFK in the talks of the best East Coast schools.

Model TBI, rotate through Kesslers model SCI, great outpatient exposure, home call, maybe the best board review, and Dr. Cuccurrulo who goes above and beyond to get her students fellowships and jobs. Fantastic program.

 

[colourmebadd]

It is surprising to me that people never include JFK in the talks of the best East Coast schools.

Model TBI, rotate through Kesslers model SCI, great outpatient exposure, home call, maybe the best board review, and Dr. Cuccurrulo who goes above and beyond to get her students fellowships and jobs. Fantastic program.

Not sure what you mean "above and beyond". And probably because JFK is in Edison, NJ. Not really a cosmopolitan area. It's all about applicant preference.

 

[j4pac]

Not sure what you mean "above and beyond". And probably because JFK is in Edison, NJ. Not really a cosmopolitan area. It's all about applicant preference.

Did you interview? If you did, no need to explain.

Not sure how location should play a role in the quality of the program.

Of course applicant preference determines everything...but that could be said of any program.

JFK is very underrated. That's all I'm saying.

 

[colourmebadd]

Did you interview? If you did, no need to explain.

Not sure how location should play a role in the quality of the program.

Of course applicant preference determines everything...but that could be said of any program.

JFK is very underrated. That's all I'm saying.

By the fact that I'm asking, you can answer your own question.

And location plays into resident and faculty willingness to move there. Ergo, quality of the program can be affected by the location.

 

[j4pac]

By the fact that I'm asking, you can answer your own question.

And location plays into resident and faculty willingness to move there. Ergo, quality of the program can be affected by the location.

Quality of applicant perhaps.

 

[Kissmyabjj]

I interviewed at JFK. The PD was awesome and the residents were super cool. They also have a pretty sweet deal in terms of moonlighting at JFK, itself. It was something like you got paid per admission on the weekends. I can't remember exactly how it worked, but it was definitely something I didn't hear about anywhere else. The residents were telling me about a guy who was able to make an extra $1000 one weekend. I didn't rank it super high because the location is terrible. It is right off the turnpike and not really close to anywhere I would really want to live. It was also kind of a small hospital and I wanted to be at a larger academic center.