Help me write my own LOR!

[StritchMD2011]

My research advisor agreed to "write" me a letter of recommendation this last week, though he's going about it a bit differently. He wants me to write my own letter of recommendation as if he wrote it. He said he'll then edit it as he feels appropriate. I'm guessing he's going to be too busy to take much time to edit it, so I think I have free reign over what I write. Obviously, I want to be honest.

Does anyone have any tips about the types of things to cover in a good LOR? The doc knows me fairly well, if that makes a difference. Any help would be appreciated.

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[Sol Rosenberg]

I think writing your own LOR is a mixed-bag. While it is a great opportunity to get a great LOR and know what is in it, it is considered unethical by many people/academics. But, to help you out, there are MANY templates the you can find through a google search.

 

[RDood]

What kind of a prof is this? Are you going to say that this was a confidential LOR? I certainly hope you say that you saw it. The honesty of med school applicants these days...

 

[Gabujabu]

Just for the record, legally, just because somebody waived their rights to see recommendation letters does not mean that their advisor is not allowed to show them the letter if he or she wants to do that.

 

[RAD11]

Just for the record, legally, just because somebody waived their rights to see recommendation letters does not mean that their advisor is not allowed to show them the letter if he or she wants to do that.

So true....some prof are just not so uptight like that. It's really their prerogative...it's not like you're opening the letters yourself..

 

[RDood]

Just for the record, legally, just because somebody waived their rights to see recommendation letters does not mean that their advisor is not allowed to show them the letter if he or she wants to do that.

Puh legally, how about ethically, when it is deemed a "confidential" LOR?

 

[dopaminesurge]

Puh legally, how about ethically, when it is deemed a "confidential" LOR?

No, they're right. The issue at hand is whether you waived your right to the letter. If the professor grants you the privilege of viewing it, there's no contradiction. You never insisted on the right to see it. It wasn't your decision, but his.

 

[StritchMD2011]

Is this really something that I shouldn't be doing? I guess I didn't stop to think about the fact that I did waive my rights to see the letters. Like I said before, I guarantee he will edit parts of it, but I doubt he'll make any huge revisions to the letter. I will not see the letter after he edits it.

I'm stuck in a moral dillemma. I need the letter, but I also don't want to do something that is shady. Any further advice?

 

[RDood]

We're digressing. The core issue was writing your own LOR, and then passing it off as a confidentially written LOR. I think that would be ethically wrong in any situation.
Usually there's the option to say that you've seen the LOR or something - I know my school's LOR form had you decide whether or not you wanted it to be hidden from you or not. You could write your own as long as you aren't trying to pass it off as a confidential LOR.

 

[StritchMD2011]

We're digressing. The core issue was writing your own LOR, and then passing it off as a confidentially written LOR. I think that would be ethically wrong in any situation.
Usually there's the option to say that you've seen the LOR or something - I know my school's LOR form had you decide whether or not you wanted it to be hidden from you or not. You could write your own as long as you aren't trying to pass it off as a confidential LOR.

Thanks for the advice. I'll look into this. I should mention that this professor is not from my undergraduate instutution. I talked to our pre-med office, and they said they can't really include his letter in the composite letter they put together, but they will add the letter to the packet of LORs that they send to each school.

I should also mention, he did say that if he truly disagreed with anything I wrote, he would definitely change it. I'm sure he won't agree with everything I say, so the letter will not necessarily be the same as when I wrote it.

 

[RAD11]

I should also mention, he did say that if he truly disagreed with anything I wrote, he would definitely change it. I'm sure he won't agree with everything I say, so the letter will not necessarily be the same as when I wrote it.

Exactly...he's not going to send a letter he doesn't approve off.

 

[zimmie256]

I think writing your own LOR is a mixed-bag. While it is a great opportunity to get a great LOR and know what is in it, it is considered unethical by many people/academics. But, to help you out, there are MANY templates the you can find through a google search.

Many pre-med offices also give suggestions to letter writers about what to include, format etc. If your office doesn't do this, try googling for that as well.

 

[DoctorPardi]

What kind of a prof is this? Are you going to say that this was a confidential LOR? I certainly hope you say that you saw it. The honesty of med school applicants these days...

If a professor wants to show the LOR or let you write it, that is his call. It isn't the adcoms right to tell a professor how to write a LOR.

The student by all means should not expect to see the LOR, and should certainly not expect to write it, but if the professor wants him to do either that is his prerogative.

 

[Puddintame]

My research advisor agreed to "write" me a letter of recommendation this last week, though he's going about it a bit differently. He wants me to write my own letter of recommendation as if he wrote it. He said he'll then edit it as he feels appropriate. I'm guessing he's going to be too busy to take much time to edit it, so I think I have free reign over what I write. Obviously, I want to be honest.

Does anyone have any tips about the types of things to cover in a good LOR? The doc knows me fairly well, if that makes a difference. Any help would be appreciated.

Advice based on personal experience (meaning, "take it for what you will because I don't pretend to be an expert"):

Think about how this letter is going to fit in with the other letters you submit. For example, since this is from your research advisor, then it's likely that its primary contribution to your profile is that of talking about your qualities as a self-directed scholar, capable of identifying problems and carrying out analysis on your own, etc. If that's the case, then the letter should speak primarily to that and leave the general academic stuff to the more standard letters from instructors/profs.

First paragraph:
Good letters usually have enough introductory details to make it clear how the writer knows you and that they know you well enough to be saying these things about you. Make this minimal, but clear. A sentence or two is usually sufficient unless there's a lot of history to cover.

Body:
Provide more than the generalities (s/he is an excellent researcher) by including descriptions of actual things you did ("Jezebel chose her topic after considerable preliminary research and her subsequent work speaks directly to one of the key aspects of this particular field by...").

Ignore "standard length" prescriptions. Say what you need to say and get out. If that takes two pages, then fine. If that takes one page, then that's fine too. You don't want to bore a reviewer who's already spent weeks wading through reams of other letters. No matter how well-intentioned they are, the "pi**ed off" threshold gets low after a while.

If the letter needs to talk about two things (say research and academics) then make the transitions clear. I find it gets confusing if you blend them into one paragraph.

You might want to throw in a paragraph about how the issues addressed in the letter speak to your potential as a med school student/physician.

Closing:
This is the toughest part for the self-written reference letter. Do you go with superlatives ("Cornelius is the finest student blah blah blah") or more guarded comments? I say, leave it up to the actual prof. Just tell him/her you don't think it's appropriate/you didn't feel comfortable, whatever. You've already done the hard part for them anyway.

(Rant: Honestly, I really hate it when I hear about people doing this to students. If a prof or whoever respects the student enough to sign the letter, then they should get off their butt and write the damned thing themselves (and yes I know they're busy). If they don't want to write a letter then they should politely decline.)

 

[DoctorPardi]

The point of LOR confidentiality is to allow the professor to feel comfortable writing an honest review of an applicant. If the professor feels comfortable enough with letting the student write his own, that plays into that process. Generally a professor will review it, edit it and make it his own.

So I think people are going up in arms about confidentiality, but you're confusing the whole point of the confidentiality. It isn't to purposefully keep the student in the dark, or put the student at a disadvantage or anything like that. It is so the writers feel comfortable writing an honest review of the applicant. It is the professor's choice and his alone to allow the applicant to see or even write the letter.

 

[StritchMD2011]

Thanks for all of the information everyone. I emailed my pre-med advisor to see her opinion on this issue.

I think I overstated in my first post the degree to which I had autonomy over the contents of the letter. I should have simply said that he'll edit it to his liking. He is not going to simply sign his name on the letter and send it off to my university. I'm fairly certain he'll change it a fair amount, though I doubt he will re-write the entire letter.

 

[RDood]

The point of LOR confidentiality is to allow the professor to feel comfortable writing an honest review of an applicant. If the professor feels comfortable enough with letting the student write his own, that plays into that process. Generally a professor will review it, edit it and make it his own.

So I think people are going up in arms about confidentiality, but you're confusing the whole point of the confidentiality. It isn't to purposefully keep the student in the dark, or put the student at a disadvantage or anything like that. It is so the writers feel comfortable writing an honest review of the applicant. It is the professor's choice and his alone to allow the applicant to see or even write the letter.

Be careful of relying on one's own interpretation (ends justifying means) rather than the actual interpretation of a law/rule/term.
True it is up to the professor's discretion, however misrepresentation (aka lying) is a bit suspect. There was an earlier thread where someone was "caught" by the WashU dean letter because they reported that they had never undergone any institutional action at their University and in fact had, and the dean's letter would show they had lied. I'm just shocked that people are lying on their applications out there, and seeing another instance was just causing me worry.

 

[StritchMD2011]

Be careful of relying on one's own interpretation (ends justifying means) rather than the actual interpretation of a law/rule/term.
True it is up to the professor's discretion, however misrepresentation (aka lying) is a bit suspect. There was an earlier thread where someone was "caught" by the WashU dean letter because they reported that they had never undergone any institutional action at their University and in fact had, and the dean's letter would show they had lied. I'm just shocked that people are lying on their applications out there, and seeing another instance was just causing me worry.

I really don't appreciate being called a liar. I'm in a difficult position here, because if I want a letter, I have to go about it in this manner. I emailed my pre-med advisor to see if there is an option to show that the letter wasn't confidential.

Furthermore, I'm not going to see the final letter, which has my professor's true opinions of me. This letter is just a template from which he can manipulate to include what he truly thinks of my work ethic, etc...

I've done my best to be honest about everything on my application, and one of the reasons I posted here was also to see how to handle this situation.

 

[pirata]

I was asked to do the same thing--but instead of writing a letter, I came up with a series of "talking points." That way, I could provide important details and phrases, without having to provide the superlatives or the actual academic eval, which I didn't think was my place to write. Essentially, give them a grab bag of points to choose from, focusing on their relationship with you (i.e. research or academic), along with a copy of your CV and AMCAS app. If you let them know you're uncomfortable writing the glowing stuff, they should understand.

 

[DoctorPardi]

Be careful of relying on one's own interpretation (ends justifying means) rather than the actual interpretation of a law/rule/term.
True it is up to the professor's discretion, however misrepresentation (aka lying) is a bit suspect. There was an earlier thread where someone was "caught" by the WashU dean letter because they reported that they had never undergone any institutional action at their University and in fact had, and the dean's letter would show they had lied. I'm just shocked that people are lying on their applications out there, and seeing another instance was just causing me worry.

You are waiving your rights to see an LOR. It isn't illegal to see it. If the professor shows it to you, then you've seen it and on an interview if asked you would tell them you had. This is completely different from someone being caught cheating on a test, getting punished, then again lying on application about cheating in the first place.

This is, saying I waive my rights to see my LORs. Then the professor shows it to you. Once you waive your right, doesn't mean you can't have the privilege of seeing the LOR.

 

[RDood]

I really don't appreciate being called a liar. I'm in a difficult position here, because if I want a letter, I have to go about it in this manner. I emailed my pre-med advisor to see if there is an option to show that the letter wasn't confidential.

Furthermore, I'm not going to see the final letter, which has my professor's true opinions of me. This letter is just a template from which he can manipulate to include what he truly thinks of my work ethic, etc...

I've done my best to be honest about everything on my application, and one of the reasons I posted here was also to see how to handle this situation.

My aplogies. My intent was not to call you a liar at all. I'm just saying if asked if it was a confidential letter, I'm assuming you'd respond that it was not. I didn't intend a direct comparison to that other guy (you have not lied, nor did you lie on your ap), but merely wanted to show an example of what some relativistic thinking can eventually lead to.

 

[RDood]

You are waiving your rights to see an LOR. It isn't illegal to see it. If the professor shows it to you, then you've seen it and on an interview if asked you would tell them you had. This is completely different from someone being caught cheating on a test, getting punished, then again lying on application about cheating in the first place.

This is, saying I waive my rights to see my LORs. Then the professor shows it to you. Once you waive your right, doesn't mean you can't have the privilege of seeing the LOR.

See above post, but as an example, I had a secondary ap which asked if I was privy to my LORs or not. Honesty is the best policy...

 

[DoctorPardi]

See above post, but as an example, I had a secondary ap which asked if I was privy to my LORs or not. Honesty is the best policy...

Well I am certainly not suggesting you lie on an application. Admitting you've seen your LOR may be the trade off you take when writing or viewing an LOR. So some people might rather decline to write their own, or even view their own.

However, unless asked on a secondary, there is no point in admitting you've seen the LOR.

 

[Testy McAterson]

If a professor wants to show the LOR or let you write it, that is his call. It isn't the adcoms right to tell a professor how to write a LOR.

The student by all means should not expect to see the LOR, and should certainly not expect to write it, but if the professor wants him to do either that is his prerogative.

i agree. let's face it--our LORs most likely aren't the top priority for busy professors or doctors. i think it's better that they ask you for a 'rough draft' or outline rather than sending a generic letter that they wrote for another student in the past and edited that student's name to yours. you didn't ask them to let you write your own letter (though i've actually been advised by a uc irvine doctor friend to suggest this if the writer says he/she's too busy) and, in the end, you aren't seeing the final draft.

 

[p9142]

I really don't appreciate being called a liar.

Don't worry about it. Some people just have to get up on their high horse. This is a totally acceptable and common practice in academia. The letter is confidential after it is sent. There is nothing that says the writer can't tell the student whatever he or she wants about the letter (including the final draft.) Confidentiality only comes into play when the student asks the medical school to show the letter after the fact.

 

[jstuds_66]

I guess my take on this whole discussion is that it's a bummer of a situation. I know that I personally wouldn't feel comfortable writing even a first draft of my LOR. Also, I feel uneasy knowing that there are people out there that would. I know what I say probably doesn't matter very much because I'm not in that position. However, if I were, I would probably ask the person to write the letter him/herself. If the person claimed to be to busy, I would find someone else to write a true evaluation of me. If that person is too busy, he/she won't write a good letter, but at the same time I don't think its fair for me to write my own letter.

 

[ssman]

and the award goes to puddintame

the rest of you imagine <thats a middle finger