Help needed! DO PD can no longer attest for ABIM boards for fellow. Now what?!

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Hello,

I am one of the hematology and oncology fellows at a community program. There has been a new rule: AOBIM certified Program directors can no longer attest for their fellows' ABIM board exam. This took effect January 1st, 2022.

I am a third year hem/onc fellow and I am MD. Currently I cannot take the hem/onc board because of above rule. We had another attending and he is gone now and we have only 1 attending who is the PD. The organization has been looking for a new ABIM certified PD since 3-4 months ago (at least thats what they told us).

I am getting closer to my graduation and getting very nervous because without ABIM hem/Onc boards my 3 years hem/onc fellowship is pointless! (I cannot take AOBIM boards, not eligible, because I am MD).

This was communicated with both ACGME and ABIM and beside sending me a lot of PDF files and links they said I am on my own!
-ACGME: "PD should be either AOBIM or ABIM", as long as he has one of the boards he is good!!
-ABIM: " we are not in charge of fellowships, we just give certifications"!

Now, my dear peers, what do you recommend? Should I find a lawyer? If yes, do you know any?

During my interview they did not tell me this may happen!

I am really frustrated and feel I am left behind and abandoned by both ACGME and ABIM.

I appreciate if you can give me any advise.

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This was communicated with both ACGME and ABIM and beside sending me a lot of PDF files and links they said I am on my own!
-ACGME: "PD should be either AOBIM or ABIM", as long as he has one of the boards he is good!!
-ABIM: " we are not in charge of fellowships, we just give certifications"!
I don't have an answer. This is unfortunate but the answers sound more like a curt answer from overworked clerks. Did you email anyone in the leadership position from either organizations? If not, I would start by asking for their contact and proceed to request a special provision for special scenario such as this one.
 
I don't have an answer. This is unfortunate but the answers sound more like a curt answer from overworked clerks. Did you email anyone in the leadership position from either organizations? If not, I would start by asking for their contact and proceed to request a special provision for special scenario such as this one.
Agreed. This is also frankly something that your own GME office and PD should be trying to work out with ABIM.
 
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Sounds like based on your situation, the ABIM needs to make an exception for you. What was the point of the ACGME/AOA merger if an AOBIM PD cannot sign off on you taking the ABIM boards?
 
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Agreed. This is also frankly something that your own GME office and PD should be trying to work out with ABIM.
Sadly that is not the case.

Our program director said it is not his fault and this is the new regulation. When asked to step down he said "for no there is no other attending and if I step down who is going to be the PD?". Then he talked to DIOs and they came up with the idea of CO-Program Director! which means even if they found an ABIM board certified attending he/she will work with the current attending! (so he does not need to step down).

So I contacted ACGME and they said PD is one person and there is nothing like co-PD!

Then they said "okay, fair enough. We are looking for a new ABIM PD for you". Now after 4 months no contract was signed yet and they are still looking.

Our GME is not forced by ACGME-ABIM to find a new ABIM PD. I am not sure how honest they are.

I asked them what is their plan B if they did not find anyone, are if they are going to send current fellows to another program so they can take their boards (and then close the program)? They said no, we do not want to close the program.

This is a bad situation.
 
I don't have an answer. This is unfortunate but the answers sound more like a curt answer from overworked clerks. Did you email anyone in the leadership position from either organizations? If not, I would start by asking for their contact and proceed to request a special provision for special scenario such as this one.
We had meetings with GME and they has been looking for a new ABIM certified PD for the last 3-4 months.
Seems they do not want to send us to another program so we can take the board.

Leadership's position is "wait and be hopeful till we find an ABIM PD".

But what if they did not find one?
 
Sounds like based on your situation, the ABIM needs to make an exception for you. What was the point of the ACGME/AOA merger if an AOBIM PD cannot sign off on you taking the ABIM boards?
You are right and it is common sense! But in reality ABIM does not make any exception!

They gave our PD the opportunity to take ABIM internal medicine and if he passed he could sign off on our boards. Guess what? he failed ABIM in July!

Who should I sue now? ABIM? ACGME? My hospital/organization? All together?
 
Oh boy. This is a very complicated situation and isn't going to be easy to solve. Regardless, the first thing to do is to take a deep breath and stop thinking about suing people. That's not going to end well for you.

Let's review the full situation:

This is not a new rule. This plan was put in place 5 years ago, anyone running a residency program should know all about it. The merger between the ACGME and AOA was a shotgun marriage at best. The AOA really had no interest in this at all, and then the ABIM announced that residents in AOA accredited core residency programs would no longer be able to participate in ABIM fellowships. I have no idea why they decided to make this declaration -- I suspect it might have been the ACGME pressuring them to do so although that's a completely baseless guess on my part. In any case, this created an enormous problem for the AOA, forced them to the table, and the GME merger proceeded. The AOA and ACGME stay separate - I expect the end game is that now that all programs are under a single banner, ABOIM will be marginalized and ultimately disappear.

So, starting 5 years ago the ACGME changed the rules so that either ABIM or ABOIM faculty could be PD's under the single system. And they created a 5 year transition period where 1) any program that was ABOIM certified and switched to ABIM would have all credit count towards ABIM, and 2) Allow ABOIM PD's to certify fellows for the ABIM exam. Importantly, they also opened the door for ABOIM certified docs to become ABIM certified simply by taking the cert exam. They were very clear that this transition period would last five years, and after that all PD's would need to be ABIM certified. That 5 year transition period ended 12/2021.

This is why you're in limbo. Your program has not been paying attention. Some, if not all, of their ABOIM faculty should have been required to get ABIM certification to prevent this exact problem.

Here's how you move forward:

1. How many faculty do you have? Your post suggests there is now just one, and prior to this there were two. The ACGME requires at least four faculty, more if there are more than six fellows. If there is really only one faculty member, your program is way out of compliance with the ACGME. In general, the ACGME is not in the business of closing down programs -- if there are problems, they will give them time to fix them. But if there's only one doc for all of the fellows? They will come down with Thor's Hammer and close down the program. What is the program supposed to do when the one doc goes on vacation? Who supervises you? I am hoping I have misunderstood your post. If there is another person who is ABIM certified and meets the requirements of a PD, they should probably be put in place.

2. The current PD should apply for ABIM certification. They would be taking the exam at the same time you will, so they won't be able to certify you (until after they pass). Then, they can certify you to take it the next year. Most jobs won't care that you can't take it right away -- most require that you pass it within 5 years. So the plan would be that they pass it this year, then you take it the next year. It's a bummer (better to just get it out of the way) but not a huge problem. Of course, this person might refuse since it's a huge pain for them, and we are also assuming they will pass. And they would need to take both the Heme and Onc exams. Given what you've written here, I expect that they don't want to be PD, and will refuse.

3. They could hire a new ABIM PD. If that happens, they can certify you -- even if they are hired after you actually graduate. But they might be uncomfortable doing so, never having met you.

4. Because the ABIM has been making this clear for 5 years, I doubt they will budge. But there's some chance that a nicely worded letter to them might give you one more year of the transition rules. I would recommend asking your IM PD to step in and help, or the DIO if they are ABIM certified.

Other options get worse:

5. You could never get certified. Some jobs won't care. Some will, and it's possible that more will over time.

6. You could find another fellowship program looking for a 1 year fellow. They can then certify you.

7. You might be able to find a job at a program with a fellowship. If so, the PD of that fellowship could certify you after observing your work for some period of time. This would be highly atypical, and they would need to contact the ABIM. But it might be possible.
 
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I missed in your last post that the PD failed the exam. So sounds like they were trying to "do the right thing". He/she can try again of course.
 
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Sounds like best case scenario is your PD takes the boards again and passes. Wishing you luck my friend!
 
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Oh boy. This is a very complicated situation and isn't going to be easy to solve. Regardless, the first thing to do is to take a deep breath and stop thinking about suing people. That's not going to end well for you.

Let's review the full situation:

This is not a new rule. This plan was put in place 5 years ago, anyone running a residency program should know all about it. The merger between the ACGME and AOA was a shotgun marriage at best. The AOA really had no interest in this at all, and then the ABIM announced that residents in AOA accredited core residency programs would no longer be able to participate in ABIM fellowships. I have no idea why they decided to make this declaration -- I suspect it might have been the ACGME pressuring them to do so although that's a completely baseless guess on my part. In any case, this created an enormous problem for the AOA, forced them to the table, and the GME merger proceeded. The AOA and ACGME stay separate - I expect the end game is that now that all programs are under a single banner, ABOIM will be marginalized and ultimately disappear.

So, starting 5 years ago the ACGME changed the rules so that either ABIM or ABOIM faculty could be PD's under the single system. And they created a 5 year transition period where 1) any program that was ABOIM certified and switched to ABIM would have all credit count towards ABIM, and 2) Allow ABOIM PD's to certify fellows for the ABIM exam. Importantly, they also opened the door for ABOIM certified docs to become ABIM certified simply by taking the cert exam. They were very clear that this transition period would last five years, and after that all PD's would need to be ABIM certified. That 5 year transition period ended 12/2021.

This is why you're in limbo. Your program has not been paying attention. Some, if not all, of their ABOIM faculty should have been required to get ABIM certification to prevent this exact problem.

Here's how you move forward:

1. How many faculty do you have? Your post suggests there is now just one, and prior to this there were two. The ACGME requires at least four faculty, more if there are more than six fellows. If there is really only one faculty member, your program is way out of compliance with the ACGME. In general, the ACGME is not in the business of closing down programs -- if there are problems, they will give them time to fix them. But if there's only one doc for all of the fellows? They will come down with Thor's Hammer and close down the program. What is the program supposed to do when the one doc goes on vacation? Who supervises you? I am hoping I have misunderstood your post. If there is another person who is ABIM certified and meets the requirements of a PD, they should probably be put in place.

2. The current PD should apply for ABIM certification. They would be taking the exam at the same time you will, so they won't be able to certify you (until after they pass). Then, they can certify you to take it the next year. Most jobs won't care that you can't take it right away -- most require that you pass it within 5 years. So the plan would be that they pass it this year, then you take it the next year. It's a bummer (better to just get it out of the way) but not a huge problem. Of course, this person might refuse since it's a huge pain for them, and we are also assuming they will pass. And they would need to take both the Heme and Onc exams. Given what you've written here, I expect that they don't want to be PD, and will refuse.

3. They could hire a new ABIM PD. If that happens, they can certify you -- even if they are hired after you actually graduate. But they might be uncomfortable doing so, never having met you.

4. Because the ABIM has been making this clear for 5 years, I doubt they will budge. But there's some chance that a nicely worded letter to them might give you one more year of the transition rules. I would recommend asking your IM PD to step in and help, or the DIO if they are ABIM certified.

Other options get worse:

5. You could never get certified. Some jobs won't care. Some will, and it's possible that more will over time.

6. You could find another fellowship program looking for a 1 year fellow. They can then certify you.

7. You might be able to find a job at a program with a fellowship. If so, the PD of that fellowship could certify you after observing your work for some period of time. This would be highly atypical, and they would need to contact the ABIM. But it might be possible.
You do not know how much I appreciate your comment!

I'll go through the list just to clarify:

1. Currently, we have only one attending at site. We DO have more attending off site:
we go for an external rotation just for 1 month in a year where there are 5 more attendings. Our program listed them as "core faculties" so we can get the ACGME accreditation. However, these off site "core faculties" do not meet the criteria for core faculties ("Core faculty members devote at least 15 hours per week to resident, or 10 hours per week to fellow, education and administration"). Simply because we see them only one month a year and not weekly. They do not take part in research, evaluation, etc.
I was thinking about reporting this program for this (if not for other issues), but I am looking at other options first.
- Because these off site attending (majority DOs) are not willing to drive 1-2 hours to our hospital daily and they do not have capacity for more rotations at their site I highly doubt they are willing to play the role of a PD! (they are a community private group doing us a favor by having us there once a year!).

2. The PD already took the ABIM (2021) and failed! I really do not want to wait for him to take it again so he "may" pass! that is simply too risky!
I am not going into details about our conversation after he received his result! oh, man!

3. They (DIOs) said (and we think they are honest) they are looking for a new PD (ABIM certified). One person interviewed 4-5 months ago, and sign a letter of intend 1 -2 month ago. But still no contract was signed and they said "It may take months". It has been a stressful waiting time for me and other fellows.
- I am not sure if a new PD hired after my graduation can sign off on my test. I think I asked ABIM/ACGME and they said no.

4. Asking ABIM nicely! is one of my options and I talked to an attorney and he mentioned it. I think there is like 10-30% chance there!

5. I did many years of research and etc just to get into hem/onc. It will be very hard for me to end up not having the certification! but yes, you are right. This is what it is.

6. I emailed all 7-8 programs in our state about doing a 3rd year there. Only one replied "we do not have any position available".

7. That is very hard to find specially when I already contacted them for a 3rd year spot. But if I am lucky that may happen.



When I contacted ABIM-ACGME they said your program was supposed to write it in your contract that you may be ineligible for ABIM exam:
“Background and Intent: Eligibility for ABMS or AOA Board certification may not be satisfied by fellowship training. Applicants must be notified of this at the time of application, as required in II.A.4.(a).(9).”

However, our program did not do this! This can be the basis of a legal action though. In that case our program is responsible to find a "3rd year spot" in another fellowship so we can take the ABIM boards (if not other things). What is your opinion about this?


Again, I really appreciate your input and time.
 
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Sounds like best case scenario is your PD takes the boards again and passes. Wishing you luck my friend!

Sounds like best case scenario is your PD takes the boards again and passes. Wishing you luck my friend!
Would you put your future at risk waiting and hoping someone passes his boards (knowing he failed before)?

I rather take some action so I never regret it. Or maybe that is just me.
 
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Would you put your future at risk waiting and hoping someone passes his boards (knowing he failed before)?

I rather take some action so I never regret it. Or maybe that is just me.
Valid points.

Path of least resistance seems to be finding an external ABIM boarded faculty member. Instituting them as PD, and having them sign off on you.

May require you speaking with them individually and pleaing your case. All while simultaenously pursuing other routes.
 
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What a crazy situation. Wish you the best. Please update us on what the outcome is.

Valid points.

Path of least resistance seems to be finding an external ABIM boarded faculty member. Instituting them as PD, and having them sign off on you.

May require you speaking with them individually and pleaing your case. All while simultaenously pursuing other routes.
That is correct. Looking for another PD is what is being done currently.
Other thing is reaching out to ABIM at the same time for an exemption.

However, both of above measures may fail. That is why I am also looking into legal action which maybe costly and unsuccessful.

In a fair world ERAS/ACGME/ABIM should collaborate and notify hem/onc applicants during the match season. If I knew this may happen I wouldn't list this program. There was no notice!
 
If you bring the ACGME's attention to the fact that there's only a single HO doc at your main site, I expect they will shut the program down immediately.

Anyone who signs on as a PD in a situation like this is crazy. Those faculty who are off site are not core faculty. Your program would need to hire a bunch of new HO docs to come into compliance.

I doubt your current PD will take the ABIM exam again. It was probably pretty embarrassing to fail. And the ABIM are likely to be more strict given that he failed -- they are less likely to allow him/her to sign off on you, since they can't even be certain that their skills are OK.

Since the program had an ABIM doc as the PD, they probably didn't need to put in your contract that you wouldn't be eligible for the boards. It's a new issue since your contract was signed.

I'm not a lawyer so I can't tell you what your legal options are. If you actually sue your program, I expect the best you can hope for is some money. Even if a court said they had to "find a 3rd year spot" for you, there's no way they can do that. They can't make some other program take you. And other programs may be concerned that your skills may not be satisfactory, given the state that your program is in. Suing the ACGME or ABIM is likely a waste of time, they have been clear about the rules for years. The hospital could simply state that their plan was the PD pass the ABIM exam -- they can't be responsible for his unexpected failure.

It's an ugly situation without many good options. Most likely, you're not going to get certified and the program is going to be closed. If it's closed before you graduate, you become an orphaned fellow. Your funding becomes transferrable to new programs, but only if your home institution releases it. But as mentioned, there's no guarantee that some other program will consider you at all and although the ACGME will "facilitate" re-homing orphaned fellows (by maintaining a list of possible spots), they won't force any program to take you.
 
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If you bring the ACGME's attention to the fact that there's only a single HO doc at your main site, I expect they will shut the program down immediately.

Anyone who signs on as a PD in a situation like this is crazy. Those faculty who are off site are not core faculty. Your program would need to hire a bunch of new HO docs to come into compliance.

I doubt your current PD will take the ABIM exam again. It was probably pretty embarrassing to fail. And the ABIM are likely to be more strict given that he failed -- they are less likely to allow him/her to sign off on you, since they can't even be certain that their skills are OK.

Since the program had an ABIM doc as the PD, they probably didn't need to put in your contract that you wouldn't be eligible for the boards. It's a new issue since your contract was signed.

I'm not a lawyer so I can't tell you what your legal options are. If you actually sue your program, I expect the best you can hope for is some money. Even if a court said they had to "find a 3rd year spot" for you, there's no way they can do that. They can't make some other program take you. And other programs may be concerned that your skills may not be satisfactory, given the state that your program is in. Suing the ACGME or ABIM is likely a waste of time, they have been clear about the rules for years. The hospital could simply state that their plan was the PD pass the ABIM exam -- they can't be responsible for his unexpected failure.

It's an ugly situation without many good options. Most likely, you're not going to get certified and the program is going to be closed. If it's closed before you graduate, you become an orphaned fellow. Your funding becomes transferrable to new programs, but only if your home institution releases it. But as mentioned, there's no guarantee that some other program will consider you at all and although the ACGME will "facilitate" re-homing orphaned fellows (by maintaining a list of possible spots), they won't force any program to take you.
Thanks for being frank.

I talked to a lawyer and beside asking ABIM for exemption and my program to do something! (in a nice way!) he did not have much to offer.

He was not able to get into details of legal action. (he asked for a lot of money on top!).

I think If I want to report and close the program I can do it without a lawyer.

I know from the past that some programs were closed (residency or fellowships) and at the end all residents/fellows found new programs (ACGME did it!). But It can be another state and with delay. This is very complicated and I am very frustrated but what should I do? let go of ABIM boards or just be hopeful they find somebody?
 
Just an update;
The program did not find any ABIM certified PD. I am still board ineligible.
I told DIOs during our meeting that I will report to ACGME. Next thing I heard is they are preparing to fire me!
Cannot believe this!

It's too much for me to digest! I am very sad.
 
Bro, why are you cutting off the hand that feeds you? You didn't have to tell them you're going to report them. The best option was to find a way to work with them in getting a new PD.
 
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Just an update;
The program did not find any ABIM certified PD. I am still board ineligible.
I told DIOs during our meeting that I will report to ACGME. Next thing I heard is they are preparing to fire me!
Cannot believe this!

It's too much for me to digest! I am very sad.
Well, what did you expect when you told them you were going to report to the ACGME! You shouldn’t have told them.

Can you do a sub fellowship like BMT? Where they have an ACGME PD? Then they could certify you for boards?

And you need to look everywhere… outside your city, outside your state to see if there are any unexpected opening or a research year in H/O that you can do.
 
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Just an update;
The program did not find any ABIM certified PD. I am still board ineligible.
I told DIOs during our meeting that I will report to ACGME. Next thing I heard is they are preparing to fire me!
Cannot believe this!

It's too much for me to digest! I am very sad.
You clearly are missing some critical thinking skills based on this post. How the hell did you get this far and think that was a remotely reasonable action to take? Just go be a hospitalist to shore up your finances and if you cant stand that and want to do outpatient look at endo or nephro, something less competitive that can overlook this fiasco. You are clinging to something that is dead and gone. Look up the concept of a sunk cost--that is what your time there is. Stop trying to get something more from these people--put in a notice of resignation before they terminate you so you don't have to report that to anyone (talk to your lawyer and pay them to do that part right so you dont run afoul of any licensure issues) then leave and stop trying to fix what is clearly a scam program.
 
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You clearly are missing some critical thinking skills based on this post. How the hell did you get this far and think that was a remotely reasonable action to take? Just go be a hospitalist to shore up your finances and if you cant stand that and want to do outpatient look at endo or nephro, something less competitive that can overlook this fiasco. You are clinging to something that is dead and gone. Look up the concept of a sunk cost--that is what your time there is. Stop trying to get something more from these people--put in a notice of resignation before they terminate you so you don't have to report that to anyone (talk to your lawyer and pay them to do that part right so you dont run afoul of any licensure issues) then leave and stop trying to fix what is clearly a scam program.
Thank you for the nice words!
I lost everything already before this. What is the point of doing 3 years without being board eligible?

If everybody thinks like you programs like this get away as they did so far. Working as hospitalist is fine. Although I completed 2 years and I can work with my lawyer to get my oncology only degree rather than pay the big corporation money for the mistake they did.

You are very good at giving up. Because of people like you ("they will fire me") programs like this exist.
 
Well, what did you expect when you told them you were going to report to the ACGME! You shouldn’t have told them.

Can you do a sub fellowship like BMT? Where they have an ACGME PD? Then they could certify you for boards?

And you need to look everywhere… outside your city, outside your state to see if there are any unexpected opening or a research year in H/O that you can do.
Very good idea. I was thinking about this.
 
Very good idea. I was thinking about this.
You literally should come tact every single H/O program in the US to see if someone can take you for an extra year and see if your research mentors, past and present, have contacts with other researchers to see if they can take you in for a research year that them could get you certified.
You have five months to figure something out.
And if you are going to report to ACGME… do it and don’t tell the higher ups… and do it as a whistleblower so they can’t legally punish you.
 
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You literally should come tact every single H/O program in the US to see if someone can take you for an extra year and see if your research mentors, past and present, have contacts with other researchers to see if they can take you in for a research year that them could get you certified.
You have five months to figure something out.
And if you are going to report to ACGME… do it and don’t tell the higher ups… and do it as a whistleblower so they can’t legally punish you.
Thanks for the suggestion.
I've started contacting other programs before the new update.
 
Thank you for the nice words!
I lost everything already before this. What is the point of doing 3 years without being board eligible?

If everybody thinks like you programs like this get away as they did so far. Working as hospitalist is fine. Although I completed 2 years and I can work with my lawyer to get my oncology only degree rather than pay the big corporation money for the mistake they did.

You are very good at giving up. Because of people like you ("they will fire me") programs like this exist.
You arent going to be an oncologist because your program was nonsense with a single faculty (who apparently can’t pass the boards) “teaching” you the entire time and some random private practice sounding types providing help on a monthly basis. This sounds more like a us clinical experience the fmgs try to get rather than a fellowship program. Your lawyer can’t fix that. You seem to have regressed from anger (reporting the program and talking them about it) back to denial. It sucks but making the program shut down isn’t going to help you now and you can worry about fighting the fight against scam programs after you land somewhere that is going to give you a paycheck.
 
You arent going to be an oncologist because your program was nonsense with a single faculty (who apparently can’t pass the boards) “teaching” you the entire time and some random private practice sounding types providing help on a monthly basis. This sounds more like a us clinical experience the fmgs try to get rather than a fellowship program. Your lawyer can’t fix that. You seem to have regressed from anger (reporting the program and talking them about it) back to denial. It sucks but making the program shut down isn’t going to help you now and you can worry about fighting the fight against scam programs after you land somewhere that is going to give you a paycheck.
Well he will be a hem/onc, just not board eligible… obviously that will limit his ability to be employed… but nonetheless will be a hem/onc in a few months… can probably be just onc since that only requires 2 years.
And if he actually got the program shut down before he graduated, then he would be orphaned and potentially could be taken by another program… but being a whistleblower does have its consequences and programs may not necessarily want to take in the whistleblower.

Seems like his best bet is finding a sub fellowship or a research post doc in H/O and while it will delay him by a year, but gets him the opportunity to be BE.
 
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Well he will be a hem/onc, just not board eligible… obviously that will limit his ability to be employed… but nonetheless will be a hem/onc in a few months… can probably be just onc since that only requires 2 years.
And if he actually got the program shut down before he graduated, then he would be orphaned and potentially could be taken by another program… but being a whistleblower does have its consequences and programs may not necessarily want to take in the whistleblower.

Seems like his best bet is finding a sub fellowship or a research post doc in H/O and while it will delay him by a year, but gets him the opportunity to be BE.
Ask yourself if you were a PD if you would want to deal with the mountain of paperwork and appeals it would take to get this person eligible? Ask yourself if you had cancer would you want your oncologist to have exposure to practice patterns as they have described here?

Most of this is not on the op but the program had lots of red flags it sounds like and was used to exploit them rather than educate. The exploitation isn’t fair but it also isn’t fair to label someone as board eligible for a specialty they don’t have adequate training in either. If I was critically ill and my Intensivist had been trained in a 4 bed icu by a single person who wasn’t board certified and rotated occasionally at other community icus I would request to be transferred to another hospital.
 
Ask yourself if you were a PD if you would want to deal with the mountain of paperwork and appeals it would take to get this person eligible? Ask yourself if you had cancer would you want your oncologist to have exposure to practice patterns as they have described here?

Most of this is not on the op but the program had lots of red flags it sounds like and was used to exploit them rather than educate. The exploitation isn’t fair but it also isn’t fair to label someone as board eligible for a specialty they don’t have adequate training in either. If I was critically ill and my Intensivist had been trained in a 4 bed icu by a single person who wasn’t board certified and rotated occasionally at other community icus I would request to be transferred to another hospital.

Might be worse… it might be a Doctor of Nursing with some online CME on ventilators who has you on a vecuronium drip without sedation so you can’t even request transfer.
 
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Ask yourself if you were a PD if you would want to deal with the mountain of paperwork and appeals it would take to get this person eligible? Ask yourself if you had cancer would you want your oncologist to have exposure to practice patterns as they have described here?

Most of this is not on the op but the program had lots of red flags it sounds like and was used to exploit them rather than educate. The exploitation isn’t fair but it also isn’t fair to label someone as board eligible for a specialty they don’t have adequate training in either. If I was critically ill and my Intensivist had been trained in a 4 bed icu by a single person who wasn’t board certified and rotated occasionally at other community icus I would request to be transferred to another hospital.
You act like board certification somehow make a person a good physician… it makes them a good test taker.
And the difference here is that the pd is AOA and not ACGME…how is he really different now than he was last year… and presumably he was able to certify the fellows from last year.
This is just administrative BS… has nothing to do with whether the fellow is qualified to be eligible…it’s not like it’s a high standard… you check off all the ACGME/RRC require for a fellowship and voila! You meet the requirements and can sit for the boards…it’s the program that doesn’t have a PD that should be the PD… they dropped the ball and now their fellows are the one that suffer.
An MD hem/onc needs to step, become the interim PD and sign off on the fellows.

The RRC needs to review the program to see if they truly meet the requirements of being a program… why hasn’t that happened?
 
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You act like board certification somehow make a person a good physician… it makes them a good test taker.
And the difference here is that the pd is AOA and not ACGME…how is he really different now than he was last year… and presumably he was able to certify the fellows from last year.
This is just administrative BS… has nothing to do with whether the fellow is qualified to be eligible…it’s not like it’s a high standard… you check off all the ACGME/RRC require for a fellowship and voila! You meet the requirements and can sit for the boards…it’s the program that doesn’t have a PD that should be the PD… they dropped the ball and now their fellows are the one that suffer.
An MD hem/onc needs to step, become the interim PD and sign off on the fellows.

The RRC needs to review the program to see if they truly meet the requirements of being a program… why hasn’t that happened?
You sound like a reasonable person.
I really don't get why the other person in this forum is attacking me!
Many fellows graduated from the same program, passed their hem/onc ABIM boards and now are very successful doctors. We had another attending, who was fired 4 months ago.
ACGME and/or ERAS should have listed and flagged this program during the match season: "you may not be eligible for ABIM boards after completion of your 3 year fellowship". However there was no such a thing. The program did not notify us either. I find ACGME responsible too.


The organization could have offered a better salary to have a MD hem/onc PD on board. Sadly they were not able to do so. They also have the same problem in other departments.

Doctors are trained to be compliant. The med students should be compliant to get LOR for residency, the residents should suck it up to get the LORs for their fellowship, and fellows should be complaint to get the LORs for their future jobs. One mistake and you're fired and you cant find a job. It is a vicious cycle where student/resident/fellow should tolerate whatever.

Rokshana, I want to thank you for your comment. I wish you were a PD and could take me as a 3rd year fellow!
 
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I just received this email from AOA regarding the policy. ABIM is giving two more years for PDs to obtain certification. Hopefully this helps OP graduate and take boards.
Next thread: Help I threatened to report my program and they fired me then lost its accreditation after I reported them what do I do?

Hope everything works out for OP but I also hope you do report later because this sounds like a sham as hell program and everyone involved (including the attendings) seems like they’re being taken advantage of.
 
Next thread: Help I threatened to report my program and they fired me then lost its accreditation after I reported them what do I do?

Hope everything works out for OP but I also hope you do report later because this sounds like a sham as hell program and everyone involved (including the attendings) seems like they’re being taken advantage of.
Great sense of humor here. That helps a lot. Use it more everyday.
 

I just received this email from AOA regarding the policy. ABIM is giving two more years for PDs to obtain certification. Hopefully this helps OP graduate and take boards.

This letter was sent out by AOA today. The new DIO talked to me moments after this letter! and cleared me completely which means they are not firing me!


However, when ABIM was contacted they said "once ABIM internal discussions are finalized we will clarify any question".

AOA and ABIM were in courts many times and I hope ABIM finalizes this 2 year extension and does not look for an appeal.


This should not happen to anybody.
 
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This letter was sent out by AOA today. The new DIO talked to me moments after this letter! and cleared me completely which means they are not firing me!


However, when ABIM was contacted they said "once ABIM internal discussions are finalized we will clarify any question".

AOA and ABIM were in courts many times and I hope ABIM finalizes this 2 year extension and does not look for an appeal.


This should not happen to anybody.
Yes, but frankly your program dropped the ball here…apparently not the only one, but…they now have 2 years to get either the current PD to pass the ABIM board or find someone who is BC.
 
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