Help: OOS MD or In-State DO

[MattSmith45]

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Hi all,

I was just accepted to The Commonwealth Medical College (in PA) yesterday. I have posted on SDN before. I'm an Illinois resident and had basically applied to the Illinois allopathic schools, Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine, and some of the allopathic schools in PA. Other than TCMC, I only have an acceptance at Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine. I am trying to decide to go to TCMC (MD school) or CCOM (DO school). I used to be naive before and care about the status of the degree, but my mentality has changed and I value other things more. My whole support system is in Chicago. CCOM seems to be a fine DO school, but I obviously do understand some of the disadvantages of the osteopathic degree. And I cannot say for sure that I'm not interested in some of the more competitive fields. But when I looked at TCMC's match list, I was sort of disappointed. I know that the school has a primary care focus but the match list was weaker than the DO school that I'm comparing with. Besides basically IM, I saw 3 gen sure matches (prelim, at that). Also, Scranton wasn't that great of a town (sorry, michael scott).

In my situation, what should I do? Stay in the great city of Chicago (hehe) and go to CCOM which arguably has a better match list, despite being a DO school? Or go to a small town in PA for a school that has a weaker match list but offers an MD degree? In this specific situation, do you have any advice?

Thanks,
Matt

 

[NYCdude]

Whatever's cheaper and a better fit.

 

[r0703]

I think you already know what you wanna do but just want other people to reinforce your decision...stay in chicago! Commonwealth really isn't a great school plus Scranton is a miserable place to live, even if it is for 4 years

 

[MattSmith45]

I think you already know what you wanna do but just want other people to reinforce your decision...stay in chicago! Commonwealth really isn't a great school plus Scranton is a miserable place to live, even if it is for 4 years

To be honest, I am leaning towards CCOM. But I just wanted SDN's advice on whether this is professionally a bad choice. Going to CCOM would be the easier transition for me as well (just have to move from Lincoln Park closer to Downer's Grove).

 

[r0703]

I think professionally it doesn't really matter too much-you already said your DO school match list was more impressive than commonwealth's. Plus if you move somewhere and hate it, your grades/mental health might take a hit. I'd rather be in a place that I love with my support system, and it sounds like you would be much happier in Chicago.

 

[MattSmith45]

Thanks all. I agree.

 

[iniquus]

CCOM seems to be a fine DO school, but I obviously do understand some of the disadvantages of the osteopathic degree. And I cannot say for sure that I'm not interested in some of the more competitive fields. But when I looked at TCMC's match list, I was sort of disappointed. I know that the school has a primary care focus but the match list was weaker than the DO school that I'm comparing with. Besides basically IM, I saw 3 gen sure matches (prelim, at that). Also, Scranton wasn't that great of a town (sorry, michael scott).

In my situation, what should I do? Stay in the great city of Chicago (hehe) and go to CCOM which arguably has a better match list, despite being a DO school? Or go to a small town in PA for a school that has a weaker match list but offers an MD degree? In this specific situation, do you have any advice?

Do not choose a school based on their match list. They are difficult to interpret, especially for pre-medical students who do not know what medical student preferences were and which programs are actually good each specialty. I checked out TCMC's match list--it was a fair match (while I thought their IM match could have been a lot better, they did match into dermatology, orthopedics, ophthalmology, plastics, and radiation-oncology, not to mention there were some MGH/BWH matches for what it's worth).

I couldn't even find CCOM's 2014 match list to compare.

 

[EasternMer]

I'd choose TCMC simple because more doors are open to you as an MD.

But...mental health > Residency options.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

I can tell that you know what you want to do. do what makes you happy!

 

[EasternMer]

Hi all,

I was just accepted to The Commonwealth Medical College (in PA) yesterday. I have posted on SDN before. I'm an Illinois resident and had basically applied to the Illinois allopathic schools, Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine, and some of the allopathic schools in PA. Other than TCMC, I only have an acceptance at Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine. I am trying to decide to go to TCMC (MD school) or CCOM (DO school). I used to be naive before and care about the status of the degree, but my mentality has changed and I value other things more. My whole support system is in Chicago. CCOM seems to be a fine DO school, but I obviously do understand some of the disadvantages of the osteopathic degree. And I cannot say for sure that I'm not interested in some of the more competitive fields. But when I looked at TCMC's match list, I was sort of disappointed. I know that the school has a primary care focus but the match list was weaker than the DO school that I'm comparing with. Besides basically IM, I saw 3 gen sure matches (prelim, at that). Also, Scranton wasn't that great of a town (sorry, michael scott).

In my situation, what should I do? Stay in the great city of Chicago (hehe) and go to CCOM which arguably has a better match list, despite being a DO school? Or go to a small town in PA for a school that has a weaker match list but offers an MD degree? In this specific situation, do you have any advice?

Thanks,
Matt

Also OP, I think there's a HUGE Primary focus for DO's. I just looked at TCMC's match list and all the specialties are present, neuro surgery, derm, radonc.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find that diversity, and those numbers (of people going to competitive specialties) at most DO Schools. But I've not looked at CCOM's Match List.

Most DO go into Internal/Fam Medicine I've heard...with a growing preference for Anesthesia.

 

[medic86]

What's interesting:

if you posted this over in the pre-osteopathic forums, the vast majority of the responses would tell you to take the MD acceptance in a heart beat.

Take that for what it's worth.

 

[Sephoraaa]

I interviewed here and hope to hear back! I also faced a similar situation. Mine was Sackler vs NYCOM and now the MD program I interviewed at and the one I will be attending an interview soon.

For me, Nycom is the bottom of the list because of: 3 hours/week in omm classes + taking comlex & usmle + DO bias in the match.

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Also my speculation:

Since many AOA residencies in competitive specialties already have MD program directors and some DO directors being open-minded, after the upcoming merger, if MD students are allowed to apply for the osteopathic residencies, the uber competitiveness will spill over into the DO world. Many DO orthopedics and dermatology spots will have MD students edging out the osteopathic students.

Meanwhile, the current PDs in allopathic residencies wont change their mind about the preconcived notion of school tiers they have in their mind.

The only improvement I see coming up would be more more DOs going into midtier academic IM/gas/gs programs.

 

[WingedOx]

I interviewed here and hope to hear back! I also faced a similar situation. Mine was Sackler vs NYCOM and now the MD program I interviewed at and the one I will be attending an interview soon.

For me, Nycom is the bottom of the list because of: 3 hours/week in omm classes + taking comlex & usmle + DO bias in the match.

---
Also my speculation:

Since many AOA residencies in competitive specialties already have MD program directors and some DO directors being open-minded, after the upcoming merger, if MD students are allowed to apply for the osteopathic residencies, the uber competitiveness will spill over into the DO world. Many DO orthopedics and dermatology spots will have MD students edging out the osteopathic students.

Meanwhile, the current PDs in allopathic residencies wont change their mind about the preconcived notion of school tiers they have in their mind.

The only improvement I see coming up would be more more DOs going into midtier academic IM/gas/gs programs.

If you think coming out of an AOA school will disadvantage you, you'd better look long and hard at the road ahead of you being an ECFMG graduate. (yes, that means Sackler)

As for the CCOM vs Commonwealth. Commonwealth without much hesitation... even if it means living in Williamsport/Scranton. CCOM is in Downer's Grove... ewww.

 

[songl4a]

.

 

[Sephoraaa]

If you think coming out of an AOA school will disadvantage you, you'd better look long and hard at the road ahead of you being an ECFMG graduate. (yes, that means Sackler)

As for the CCOM vs Commonwealth. Commonwealth without much hesitation... even if it means living in Williamsport/Scranton. CCOM is in Downer's Grove... ewww.

does not really apply to Sackler. For a class of 60 students they have a better match list than low tier US MD schools.
http://sacklermedicine.us/match-day/

Even Sackler vs TCMC will take real consideration for me.

edit: also Sackler is not ecfmg in New york.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

If you think coming out of an AOA school will disadvantage you, you'd better look long and hard at the road ahead of you being an ECFMG graduate. (yes, that means Sackler)

As for the CCOM vs Commonwealth. Commonwealth without much hesitation... even if it means living in Williamsport/Scranton. CCOM is in Downer's Grove... ewww.

Sackler has some sort of New York state accreditation it seems. Sackler doesn't seem to be of the likes of SGU.

I interviewed here and hope to hear back! I also faced a similar situation. Mine was Sackler vs NYCOM and now the MD program I interviewed at and the one I will be attending an interview soon.

For me, Nycom is the bottom of the list because of: 3 hours/week in omm classes + taking comlex & usmle + DO bias in the match.

---
Also my speculation:

Since many AOA residencies in competitive specialties already have MD program directors and some DO directors being open-minded, after the upcoming merger, if MD students are allowed to apply for the osteopathic residencies, the uber competitiveness will spill over into the DO world. Many DO orthopedics and dermatology spots will have MD students edging out the osteopathic students.

Meanwhile, the current PDs in allopathic residencies wont change their mind about the preconcived notion of school tiers they have in their mind.

The only improvement I see coming up would be more more DOs going into midtier academic IM/gas/gs programs.

Your speculation is insanely pessimistic. We don't know what the interest or requirements for MDs to do AOA residencies is. Also this can only help DOs go into MD residencies. This should make everything more unified and less of a distinction between MD and DO students

 

[Sephoraaa]

Your speculation is insanely pessimistic. We don't know what the interest or requirements for MDs to do AOA residencies is. Also this can only help DOs go into MD residencies. This should make everything more unified and less of a distinction between MD and DO students

You are correct, perhaps i got carried away with my pessimism, but the way I understand it is that AOA residencies require OMM. ACGME residencies do not. AOA residencies are becoming ACGME.

One such example is the ccom neurosurgery program that changed from aoa to acgme last year and they are 100% open to U.S. allo students now.

 

[MattSmith45]

If you think coming out of an AOA school will disadvantage you, you'd better look long and hard at the road ahead of you being an ECFMG graduate. (yes, that means Sackler)

As for the CCOM vs Commonwealth. Commonwealth without much hesitation... even if it means living in Williamsport/Scranton. CCOM is in Downer's Grove... ewww.

Really? Without that much hesitating? Interesting. Yeah I mean Downer's Grove is in the suburbs of Chicago but I live in Lincoln Park which is one the sweetest neighborhoods in the city in my opinion. It may be a long commute but I'm thinking long and hard before making the move out west to DG. Scranton sucked. I'm more concerned about professional opportunities which TCMC may have the edge on like others have suggested.

 

[MattSmith45]

Wouldn't those MDs have to learn OMM for the AOA residences?

@OP: Stats? Always interested to see other Illinois residents on the forums.

My GPAs are around 3.5 and my MCAT was a 31.

 

[songl4a]

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[iniquus]

Is TCMC a HBC or mission-based? I'm wondering why it has such a relatively low LizzyM score compared to other allopathic schools.

It's a relatively new school.

 

[WingedOx]

does not really apply to Sackler. For a class of 60 students they have a better match list than low tier US MD schools.
http://sacklermedicine.us/match-day/

Even Sackler vs TCMC will take real consideration for me.

edit: also Sackler is not ecfmg in New york.

Sorry, but I'm not particularly impressed by their match lists, especially when you consider the stats of their incoming classes. Some decent names in not too competitive specialties, also a lot of community programs. (Rochester General is not University of Rochester, for example). Plus, they're not explicitly separating which programs are prelim vs which are categorical, something no decent LCME school match list would fail to do. Hang around long enough, and you see people in competitive specialties coming from all kinds of unlikely places. Hell, I have a friends doing integrated vascular surg and plastics out of bottom basement carib programs. Exceptions to the rules exist.

Sackler will make you an ECFMG residency applicant no matter what state you're applying to. The NY agreement doesn't change that.

 

[WingedOx]

It's a relatively new school.

Primary care focus. Very Michigan State-esqe in it's mission. If they're anything like MSU used to be, they select for students who fit that mold.

 

[WingedOx]

Really? Without that much hesitating? Interesting. Yeah I mean Downer's Grove is in the suburbs of Chicago but I live in Lincoln Park which is one the sweetest neighborhoods in the city in my opinion. It may be a long commute but I'm thinking long and hard before making the move out west to DG. Scranton sucked. I'm more concerned about professional opportunities which TCMC may have the edge on like others have suggested.

Actually, I kinda skimmed over the fact that your family is in the area... that's important and makes things harder. All else being equal I would have gone with Commonwealth though.

I love Lincoln Park but it's a hard neighborhood to get to the suburbs from. it's also out of my price range. Ms. Ox and I deciding (arguing) between places in Bucktown and South Loop. You get a lot more for your money in SL, but it's so boring down there right now.

 

[songl4a]

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[Goro]

CCOM for the very reasons you state below.

The "DO's can't do X or Y" mindset is fading away, y'know. Yes, you've have to work harder to get into a prestigious residency, but you'll have to do that at an MD school as well. Just because you have the MD doesn't mean you can waltz into Mayo or Mass Gen. But if you're afraid of hard work, then do not go to med school.

Hi all,

I was just accepted to The Commonwealth Medical College (in PA) yesterday. I have posted on SDN before. I'm an Illinois resident and had basically applied to the Illinois allopathic schools, Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine, and some of the allopathic schools in PA. Other than TCMC, I only have an acceptance at Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine. I am trying to decide to go to TCMC (MD school) or CCOM (DO school). I used to be naive before and care about the status of the degree, but my mentality has changed and I value other things more. My whole support system is in Chicago. CCOM seems to be a fine DO school, but I obviously do understand some of the disadvantages of the osteopathic degree. And I cannot say for sure that I'm not interested in some of the more competitive fields. But when I looked at TCMC's match list, I was sort of disappointed. I know that the school has a primary care focus but the match list was weaker than the DO school that I'm comparing with. Besides basically IM, I saw 3 gen sure matches (prelim, at that). Also, Scranton wasn't that great of a town (sorry, michael scott).

In my situation, what should I do? Stay in the great city of Chicago (hehe) and go to CCOM which arguably has a better match list, despite being a DO school? Or go to a small town in PA for a school that has a weaker match list but offers an MD degree? In this specific situation, do you have any advice?

Thanks,
Matt

 

[keevwu]

I believe going to CCOM could also help with future residency matching if you want to do an Illinois residency.

 

[235009]

But when I looked at TCMC's match list, I was sort of disappointed. I know that the school has a primary care focus but the match list was weaker than the DO school that I'm comparing with. Besides basically IM, I saw 3 gen sure matches (prelim, at that).

I just looked at their match list and it's nothing like you describe. Granted you don't really know how to interpret a match list like most pre-meds but trust me there's nothing wrong with TCMC's match list. The answer to your dilemma is obvious and not unique: go to the MD school. It's not completely unreasonable to go to the DO school for personal/family reasons but just be aware that you'll be closing doors in the future. If you want to do academic medicine, go to a competitive residency or fellowship or match in a desirable geographic location then you'd be severely limiting yourself by going DO. There is absolutely no reason besides location to choose CCOM over TCMC (granted I couldn't find CCOM's match list online but safe to assume it's not going to be as good).

 

[alpinism]

Only go to CCOM if you're okay with the following:

1. Having a harder time matching to more competitive residencies in more desirable locations (including staying in Chicago).
2. Having some of the best residencies closed off to you because you're a DO student.
2. Having to take additional OMM classes plus regular med school classes.
4. Having to take 2 sets of boards (USMLE and Comlex).

 

[songl4a]

.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I believe going to CCOM could also help with future residency matching if you want to do an Illinois residency.

No you still have an advantage in Illinois from TCMC compared to CCOM. CCOM does a fine job in matching though. Its biggest problem is its cost.

 

[songl4a]

.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

What are the costs of attendance, 66k vs 73?

CCOM is 58 or so tuition alone I believe

 

[songl4a]

.

 

[darklabel]

I would suggest waiting until the next match for both schools to get an accurate picture. I personally believe you should always go MD to make your life better for the match. You don't want any roadblocks in the future and starting off DO would already exclude you from places. From TCMC you may not get into elite programs, but pretty much every ACGME specialty would be open to you. The same can't be said for CCOM.

 

[MattSmith45]

After reading everyone's advice, I really appreciate all the input. With that said I'm going to be choosing CCOM over TCMC. I talked to a few attendings, residents, and did my own research and found that the DO degree will really only be an impediment if you are reaching for the most elite, academic spots in the more competitive specialities. I got a copy of CCOM's recent match list and there was a similar percentage of matches in the competitive specialties, granted these were primarily AOA. But I really have no interest in the uber competitive fields anyways. I mean I don't want to go into family medicine, but I also am not gunning for neurosurgery/derm/ophtho. I know that because I have interacted with neurosurgeons and ophthalmology residents at University of Chicago (where I currently work) and I know I can never compete with that caliber of an applicant. They seem to have an innate natural ability in addition to their extremely hard work ethic and drive. Most of us just can't hang with someone like that. Something more middle of the road (general surgery, anesthesiology, emergency medicine, cards/heme onc/GI) is more my cup of tea. I am really just looking for a good income, lifestyle, and a happy family to come home to. Being away from family, friends, and Chicago to go to a low-tier allopathic school (no offense) in a small town in PA (again, no offense) at the expense of all that isn't worth it for me.

Once again, thanks for all the input. It was a really tough decision to make but I just couldn't choose TCMC over CCOM despite the whole MD/DO thing.


Edit - I've also been rejected from all the MD Illinois schools I thought I had a shot at (Rush, UIC, Rosalind Franklin, Loyola). It was super frustrating and I'm still resentful of them, but CCOM gives me a chance to stay here...so..I'll take it.

 

[songl4a]

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[tantacles]

To be honest, I am leaning towards CCOM. But I just wanted SDN's advice on whether this is professionally a bad choice. Going to CCOM would be the easier transition for me as well (just have to move from Lincoln Park closer to Downer's Grove).

My suggestion would be that if you have interest in competitive specialties, go with the MD school. CCOM is fantastic, but the MD from a North American medical school still looks nicer and might open a few doors.

 

[iniquus]

After reading everyone's advice, I really appreciate all the input. With that said I'm going to be choosing CCOM over TCMC. I talked to a few attendings, residents, and did my own research and found that the DO degree will really only be an impediment if you are reaching for the most elite, academic spots in the more competitive specialities. I got a copy of CCOM's recent match list and there was a similar percentage of matches in the competitive specialties, granted these were primarily AOA. But I really have no interest in the uber competitive fields anyways. I mean I don't want to go into family medicine, but I also am not gunning for neurosurgery/derm/ophtho. I know that because I have interacted with neurosurgeons and ophthalmology residents at University of Chicago (where I currently work) and I know I can never compete with that caliber of an applicant. They seem to have an innate natural ability in addition to their extremely hard work ethic and drive. Most of us just can't hang with someone like that. Something more middle of the road (general surgery, anesthesiology, emergency medicine, cards/heme onc/GI) is more my cup of tea. I am really just looking for a good income, lifestyle, and a happy family to come home to. Being away from family, friends, and Chicago to go to a low-tier allopathic school (no offense) in a small town in PA (again, no offense) at the expense of all that isn't worth it for me.

Once again, thanks for all the input. It was a really tough decision to make but I just couldn't choose TCMC over CCOM despite the whole MD/DO thing.

You have to understand your perspective. If you bring most pre-med students into a clinical environment, let alone a subspecialty, they will often be awestruck and completely impressed. There's way too much of a gap in knowledge and drive, but that arguably is gained during medical school. People change their mind all the time in both directions (family medicine --> dermatology, ophthalmology --> neurology, private practice --> academics) and I hope you don't look back and wish you didn't close a few doors. Hell, I changed my mind numerous times about where I was hoping to live for residency (including leaving the state/city that I grew up in my entire life). I know your support system is in Chicago, and it's important to not abandon that, but keep in mind that with your future schedule for the next 4 years--school is more important (you'll spend your time more there than with your friends and family).

Even the "middle of the road" fields you mentioned are getting very competitive: EM is getting really popular and Cards/GI/Heme-Onc are the most competitive of the medicine subspecialties. Many people go unmatched into those medicine subspecialties and the ones that secure these coveted fellowship spots are because of who they know and the research they've done--and that's where your residency/school matter.

Best of luck.