HELP! Should I be applying to Burger King or Med School???

[paradoxnaiad]

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Just kidding. Sorta. I am in serious need of some advice - I don't know that many people in medical school, and the ones who I do know (no offense to any of you on here) are pretentious snobs going to ivy league schools. These people view me in the same way as dog excrement caked to their sneakers. 🙁 I also haven't talked to too many other pre-meds in the throws of the application process, so it would be great to here from you guys!

Well I have a 31S on my MCAT. I admit that this is not the greatest score in the world. (VR 11)(BS 11)(PS 9)(WS S). It's really the 9 that breaks my heart, but at the same time it didn't seem horrible enough to warrant going through MCAT hell all over again. I have done a lot of coursework in the physical sciences and received fantastic grades - hopefully the admissions committees will take that into account? Also my overall GPA is a 3.65, due entirely to my Spanish minor. Otherwise it'd be practically perfect. I'll go over a bit more of my credentials and then tell me what you think.

BCPM: 3.77
Overall: 3.65
Biology / Chemistry double major, Spanish Minor
Honors in Chemistry
Over 175 credits


Through college I worked the same job about 15 hours per week, and also tutored at school during my sophomore year.

I am member of the United States Army - a reservist with the specialty of dental assistant.

I was Chem Club VP 1 year, President 1 year - during which the club won the ACS Chemvention award and $2,000 for our school.

I have received numerous scholarships and awards in chemistry through the school.

The last year of college I was a resident assistant in a freshmen dorm.

I completed several years of chemistry research and presented at several ACS national conferences. One year I was awarded a summer grant to do research throughout the summer. I have also done biology research and received grants for it.

For the past year and a half I have volunteered in a local ER, volunteering over 130 hours.

During my junior year I spent 10 days in Ecuador with my dentist as an assistant, and also spent a month at an internship in a Bolivian hospital (40 hours per week of clinical exposure for 4 weeks). While in Bolivia I shadowed numerous specialties, sat in on 6 surgeries, volunteered where needed, and took classes with PA's. I have also been on a service trip to Honduras through my school.

Lastly, I have been a church pianist for the past 9 years.




To me, it seems that I have a fairly helpful list of activities - especially all of the international volunteering I have done. The internship in Bolivia was incredible, which I hopefully reflected in my AMCAS description.


Basically, I applied to schools around the New England area. A couple of them are perhaps out of my reach, but I figured I would throw in a couple hail Mary's just in case somebody catches them. I applied to NYMC, Albert Einstein, Rochester, BU, University of MA, University of Vermont, Tufts, Dartmouth, Drexel, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and Georgetown. I sent in my secondaries the first week of September.


What do you guys think????? Any consolation or helpful criticism would be appreciated. 🙂

 

[apumic]

Looks pretty good. You've covered your bases pretty well. You've got some interesting points and you've done a fair amount of clinical work. I would certainly suggest doing a bit more as the dental assisting doesn't rally count and, while important for other reasons, neither does shadowing. As a result, you really only have 160 hrs of clinical and some schools are now saying they are looking for about 500 hours (minimum) of quality clinical experience.

As far as school choices, they look a bit on the high side considering your stats. You seem to be aiming high when your overall application is strong but, frankly, modest. You seem like someone with some great potential, so I hope you're successful! Good luck.

 

[paradoxnaiad]

Thanks, I've got my fingers crossed! Couple questions though - doesn't my 130 hours volunteering in the ER count as clinical experience? (In addition to my time in Bolivia). It is very hard to quantify the number of hours I spent in Bolivia performing a) shadowing, b) volunteer work, or c) translating for the American med students. Also, I've been using that spreadsheet that's been floating around the forums and it only puts 3 of my schools as being long shots - the others are an even split of 'hopefuls' and 'go for its'. Is this a good mix?

 

[Mayssy]

As a result, you really only have 160 hrs of clinical and some schools are now saying they are looking for about 500 hours (minimum) of quality clinical experience.

Don't you think this number is a little high?

 

[Stratego]

As a result, you really only have 160 hrs of clinical and some schools are now saying they are looking for about 500 hours (minimum) of quality clinical experience.

I agree with Mayssy's concern. Things have really changed a lot in the last year, in that case. Apumic, could you possibly reference the websites where you saw this so we can steer people away from those schools when they don't qualify?

Having 130 hours over a year and a half, plus the hours from medical missions seems like enough clinical exposure to me.

OP, you application stats are right at the median for those accepted. I think your ECs are fine. There are some schools on your list I think you have a decent shot at. Considering the number of reaches, I'd have suggested to apply to more schools in the mid-range of selectivity. The only negative would be if you've applied late, then your chances are somewhat diminished relative to a June/July application.

 

[JJMrK]

Don't you think this number is a little high?

Yes.

 

[apumic]

I agree with Mayssy's concern. Things have really changed a lot in the last year, in that case. Apumic, could you possibly reference the websites where you saw this so we can steer people away from those schools when they don't qualify?

Having 130 hours over a year and a half, plus the hours from medical missions seems like enough clinical exposure to me.

OP, you application stats are right at the median for those accepted. I think your ECs are fine. There are some schools on your list I think you have a decent shot at. Considering the number of reaches, I'd have suggested to apply to more schools in the mid-range of selectivity. The only negative would be if you've applied late, then your chances are somewhat diminished relative to a June/July application.

That number is from the admissions chair at one of the top 20 research & PCP schools. Their requirements are probably higher than many; however, I actually think the reasoning behind that requirement/recommendation is pretty sound. (Basically, the chair said that it had been her and other adcom members' experience over the years that generally it takes a minimum of ~500 hours of clinical experience for pre-med students to develop the necessary understanding of medicine, healthcare, physicians' work, and the very positions they themselves held to be able to speak about these topics at the level of breadth and depth expected of medical school candidates.) While the number seems high initially, it's actually only about a semester's work half time or a single summer full-time. Unless you're planning on filling all 500 of those hrs shadowing (which would be just plain stupid, IMO), that's actually a very achievable number. (Personally, I topped 1000 at some point without even realizing it. Unless you're doing everything just to "check it off your list," I don't think it's that unreasonable to expect someone to have done a fair amount of work in the field -- esp. considering that medicine is one of only a few fields where you basically start out at the top of the totem pole by staying in school an extra 4+ years beyond college instead of getting a job at the bottom and having to work your way up. It seems to me that being as physicians start near the top, it makes sense to prefer those who have had a significant amount of experience at the bottom before training them to be at the "top" of the profession.)

To clarify, though, I doubt that any school would reject an applicant for less than 500 (or 200...even 100, perhaps) hrs alone. I think it has more to do with the quality than the quantity. If your 160 hrs of clinical experience were a great learning experience for you and you are able to express that effectively at an interview, then it seems highly unlikely to me that a smaller number of clinical hrs would be held against you. Likewise, a paramedic w/ 10,000 hours of clinical experience (all of which were direct care and virtually none involved significant interaction w/ physicians and other hospital healthcare providers beyond basic continuity of care issues) is probably going to have some difficulty convincing an adcom that s/he fully understands what one is getting oneself into by going to medical school. Such a candidate has done half the job of clinical experience (i.e., shown one's love for helping others and ability to work with px effectively) but completely failed to perform the other half (i.e., developed a good understanding of what physicians do, what they go through in a typical day, how they think (as well as dx & order tests), etc.).

 

[JJMrK]

That number is from the admissions chair at one of the top 20 research & PCP schools. Their requirements are probably higher than many; however, I actually think the reasoning behind that requirement/recommendation is pretty sound. (Basically, the chair said that it had been her and other adcom members' experience over the years that generally it takes a minimum of ~500 hours of clinical experience for pre-med students to develop the necessary understanding of medicine, healthcare, physicians' work, and the very positions they themselves held to be able to speak about these topics at the level of breadth and depth expected of medical school candidates.) While the number seems high initially, it's actually only about a semester's work half time or a single summer full-time. Unless you're planning on filling all 500 of those hrs shadowing (which would be just plain stupid, IMO), that's actually a very achievable number. (Personally, I topped 1000 at some point without even realizing it. Unless you're doing everything just to "check it off your list," I don't think it's that unreasonable to expect someone to have done a fair amount of work in the field -- esp. considering that medicine is one of only a few fields where you basically start out at the top of the totem pole by staying in school an extra 4+ years beyond college instead of getting a job at the bottom and having to work your way up. It seems to me that being as physicians start near the top, it makes sense to prefer those who have had a significant amount of experience at the bottom before training them to be at the "top" of the profession.)

To clarify, though, I doubt that any school would reject an applicant for less than 500 (or 200...even 100, perhaps) hrs alone. I think it has more to do with the quality than the quantity. If your 160 hrs of clinical experience were a great learning experience for you and you are able to express that effectively at an interview, then it seems highly unlikely to me that a smaller number of clinical hrs would be held against you. Likewise, a paramedic w/ 10,000 hours of clinical experience (all of which were direct care and virtually none involved significant interaction w/ physicians and other hospital healthcare providers beyond basic continuity of care issues) is probably going to have some difficulty convincing an adcom that s/he fully understands what one is getting oneself into by going to medical school. Such a candidate has done half the job of clinical experience (i.e., shown one's love for helping others and ability to work with px effectively) but completely failed to perform the other half (i.e., developed a good understanding of what physicians do, what they go through in a typical day, how they think (as well as dx & order tests), etc.).

😱

 

[Crash88]

apumic: totally agree with the second half of what you said...but 500 hours...I would estimate less than 20% of premeds have that many clinical hours

 

[apumic]

apumic: totally agree with the second half of what you said...but 500 hours...I would estimate less than 20% of premeds have that many clinical hours

My guess would be most premeds probably have more hours than they realize. 100 hours is 2 1/2 weeks of work. That's nothing. If you get a volunteer or paid position in a healthcare facility, you'll rack the hours up at an insane rate without even really realizing it. Considering that a high number of premeds get healthcare certifications and do work in hospitals and other healthcare facilities, I would guess it's actually much higher an average than you might think. It is probably noteworthy as well that the school that cited 500 hours as their ideal minimum for an applicant also doesn't generally take students directly out of college (80-90% of their matriculants have taken at least 1 year post-college to work) and "most" of its applicants (no number was cited, just "most") hold an EMT-B cert. (They don't recommend it, but it is a good way of fulfilling their high requirement for clinical experience hours and quality -- it is expected that applicants will have had direct responsibility for the clinical outcomes of patients as well as 500 hours.) Schools obviously vary on their expectations but if you fulfill the clinical expectations of one of the more demanding schools, you are almost certain to look all the more impressive to less selective programs (assuming, of course, that you are able to maintain everything else in good order as well).

 

[boaz]

Just kidding. Sorta. I am in serious need of some advice - I don't know that many people in medical school, and the ones who I do know (no offense to ....


What do you guys think????? Any consolation or helpful criticism would be appreciated. 🙂

LOL, I'd also apply to Hopkins--just in case you don't get into Burger King.




Seriously, you look just fine. 👍

 

[BBender716]

LOL, I'd also apply to Hopkins--just in case you don't get into Burger King.




Seriously, you look just fine. 👍

I dunno. I heard Burger King's applications are up 20% from this time last year and their aiming to make their mean MCAT around a 3 now!