Help With Internship

[jbod34]

---

Members don't see this ad.

😕 I noticed on the AOA website http://opportunities.aoa-net.org/ That all the internships are AOA accredited but when I click on a particular internship I noticede that some say AOA/ACGME accredited --> NO. Does this mean that it is still AOA accredited but just not dually? What is the drawback to not having a dually accredited program? I would sure appreciate some clarification! Thanks

 

[OSUdoc08]

😕 I noticed on the AOA website http://opportunities.aoa-net.org/ That all the internships are AOA accredited but when I click on a particular internship I noticede that some say AOA/ACGME accredited --> NO. Does this mean that it is still AOA accredited but just not dually? What is the drawback to not having a dually accredited program? I would sure appreciate some clarification! Thanks

Correct, this means that it is not dually accredited. The only drawback to not being dually accredited is that you will not be board certified by MD board (just the DO board.)

I don't see any benefit in being certified by the ACGME vs. the AOA. Your job opportunities will be the same.

 

[DOtobe]

The only benefit to dual accreditation that I can see is if you want to be a teaching attending at an allopathic program, it would be better to have ACGME accreditation. Likewise for being a teaching attending at an AOA program.

 

[(nicedream)]

The main utility of a dual-accredited internship is the fact that it is accepted as a PGY1 in ACGME programs as well as AOA programs. So you can fulfull the requirement of an AOA internship (in the 5 states) and still go on to do an ACGME residency without doing an extra year. Of course it only works if it's a program that starts with PGY2 (the specialties that require a transitional year).

 

[jbod34]

Thanks Guys! If I understand correctly, If I attend an internship that is not dually accredited and I want to apply to a Allopathic residency, then I have to do either a 1-3 or 1-4 year program right? Otherwise I would have to do a seperate ACGME accredited internship in order to apply for the 2-4 year Allopathic programs.? I sure appreciate the clarification!! 😀

 

[(nicedream)]

Thanks Guys! If I understand correctly, If I attend an internship that is not dually accredited and I want to apply to a Allopathic residency, then I have to do either a 1-3 or 1-4 year program right? Otherwise I would have to do a seperate ACGME accredited internship in order to apply for the 2-4 year Allopathic programs.? I sure appreciate the clarification!! 😀

I'm not sure what you mean by "1-3 or 1-4 year program" or "2-4 year" program. In any event, if you don't want to practice in one of the 5 states that requires an AOA internship (I see you're in OR, it's not required there), then why do one?

 

[OSUdoc08]

Thanks Guys! If I understand correctly, If I attend an internship that is not dually accredited and I want to apply to a Allopathic residency, then I have to do either a 1-3 or 1-4 year program right? Otherwise I would have to do a seperate ACGME accredited internship in order to apply for the 2-4 year Allopathic programs.? I sure appreciate the clarification!! 😀

Correct.

You can petition to get the PGY-1 year of the ACGME residency to count as an internship year instead of completing the year, if that is your concern.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I'm not sure what you mean by "1-3 or 1-4 year program" or "2-4 year" program. In any event, if you don't want to practice in one of the 5 states that requires an AOA internship (I see you're in OR, it's not required there), then why do one?

The poster is referring to a PGY 1-3 or PGY 1-4 program vs. a PGY 2-4 program. The following letter about ACGME EM residencies for DO's might be helpful:

"Should I complete the AOA internship?
There are currently five states that require the AOA internship in order to be licensed. These states are Florida, Michigan, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. The philosophy behind requiring the internship is that the AOA approved internship will give a broad primary care education during the PGY-1 year, leading to a well-rounded background before beginning a residency. However, the vast majority of allopathic EM programs (even 3 year programs) incorporate a “well-rounded” PGY-1 year. Many programs include general/trauma surgery, internal medicine, unit/critical care months, OB/GYN, etc. If one is pursuing a PGY 2-4 MD EM program, some residencies may accept your AOA internship as the PGY-1 year, others may not. We suggest contacting each program individually. However, if you plan on applying to PGY 1-3 or PGY 1-4 programs, and intend on completing an AOA internship, be aware that funding may be an issue for your last year of residency. HCFA will pay for a three year or four year MD residency, but not if you complete the AOA internship and intend on completing a PGY 1-3 program. Your last year (PGY-3) will not be funded by HCFA. Programs often view lack of funding with disdain. You may enroll in a PGY 1-3 EM residency in any of the five states without having to complete the internship, but may have licensing problems. However, you can have the PGY-1 year “waived” according to Resolution 42, titled “Approval of ACGME training as an AOA-approved internship.” Please refer to the AOA website for more details. If one is granted Resolution 42, the PGY-1 year will be “accepted” as the AOA internship, and you will be allowed to apply for a medical license in the five states mentioned above. We suggest you ask each program individually their views on the AOA internship. Some programs may view the AOA internship as a benefit, others may perceive it as a negative due to funding. Most Program Directors and Residency Coordinators should be able to discuss their view of the AOA internship during the application/interview process. Current DOs in the program are also a good resource for questions regarding internship requirements. We suggest contacting the AOA for the most up-to-date information regarding internship approval requirements. There are many strong opinions about the validity of the Osteopathic Internship, one should seek the opinions of their colleagues for help with this complex decision."

http://www.emra.org/images/upload/DOsinEMResidencies.pdf

 

[DeLaughterDO]

The poster is referring to a PGY 1-3 or PGY 1-4 program vs. a PGY 2-4 program. The following letter about ACGME EM residencies for DO's might be helpful:

"Should I complete the AOA internship?
There are currently five states that require the AOA internship in order to be licensed. These states are Florida, Michigan, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. The philosophy behind requiring the internship is that the AOA approved internship will give a broad primary care education during the PGY-1 year, leading to a well-rounded background before beginning a residency. However, the vast majority of allopathic EM programs (even 3 year programs) incorporate a “well-rounded” PGY-1 year. Many programs include general/trauma surgery, internal medicine, unit/critical care months, OB/GYN, etc. If one is pursuing a PGY 2-4 MD EM program, some residencies may accept your AOA internship as the PGY-1 year, others may not. We suggest contacting each program individually. However, if you plan on applying to PGY 1-3 or PGY 1-4 programs, and intend on completing an AOA internship, be aware that funding may be an issue for your last year of residency. HCFA will pay for a three year or four year MD residency, but not if you complete the AOA internship and intend on completing a PGY 1-3 program. Your last year (PGY-3) will not be funded by HCFA. Programs often view lack of funding with disdain. You may enroll in a PGY 1-3 EM residency in any of the five states without having to complete the internship, but may have licensing problems. However, you can have the PGY-1 year “waived” according to Resolution 42, titled “Approval of ACGME training as an AOA-approved internship.” Please refer to the AOA website for more details. If one is granted Resolution 42, the PGY-1 year will be “accepted” as the AOA internship, and you will be allowed to apply for a medical license in the five states mentioned above. We suggest you ask each program individually their views on the AOA internship. Some programs may view the AOA internship as a benefit, others may perceive it as a negative due to funding. Most Program Directors and Residency Coordinators should be able to discuss their view of the AOA internship during the application/interview process. Current DOs in the program are also a good resource for questions regarding internship requirements. We suggest contacting the AOA for the most up-to-date information regarding internship approval requirements. There are many strong opinions about the validity of the Osteopathic Internship, one should seek the opinions of their colleagues for help with this complex decision."

http://www.emra.org/images/upload/DOsinEMResidencies.pdf

Actually, since an Osteopathic TRI is not a track to specialty certification, it does not count against you for your final training funding - it is considered a PGY0

jd

 

[gottalovemilk]

sort of on topic...

if you do not want any of those listed under "internship" list, but like ones under the "residency" list, what do you do after graduating? a Traditional Rotating Internship then apply to residency correct? it is many yrs ahead before i have to worry, but i'm curious.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Actually, since an Osteopathic TRI is not a track to specialty certification, it does not count against you for your final training funding - it is considered a PGY0

jd

That may be something the writers of this document should know, if it is in fact a true statement.

I think it is variable by program, and not a standard issue, however.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

This is the way I understand it: the Centers for Medicaid and Medicare Services (the dreaded CMS), which is the government entity that provides funding for Graduate medical education, determines funding eligibility - not the institution. If CMS says TRIs are PGY0 and do not count against total funding, then I'd think it should apply across the board.

I was told that this is the case by my PD for next year. I'd assume he would know what he is talking about, since his office is just down the hall from the hospital's GME office and he said he has asked about that specific circumstance in the past, for another resident who wanted to pursue an EM residency after a TRI.

jd

 

[DeLaughterDO]

I also get the feeling this is somewhat of a closely guarded secret, since I have also written an article about residency after a TRI and could not tease this information out of the CMS regulations.. of course, those things read like braille (not to insult those blind SDNers) - could barely tell which end was up! 🙂

jd

 

[DeLaughterDO]

sort of on topic...

if you do not want any of those listed under "internship" list, but like ones under the "residency" list, what do you do after graduating? a Traditional Rotating Internship then apply to residency correct? it is many yrs ahead before i have to worry, but i'm curious.

You are correct - if you want to pursue ANY AOA accredited residency you must first complete a TRI (Traditional Osteopathic Rotating Internship). There are also specialty emphasis versions of the TRI - I believe they are found in IM, FM, EM, PEDS, and maybe surgery... but I'm not too sure about the last two. In many cases, the internships are linked to the residency at that hospital. In some cases, however, they are not linked and you must apply for residency and internship separately. Anyone applying for these programs need to be very careful and perform due diligence when searching for information about these programs. You don't want to match to a residency program only to find out the internship is not linked and you did not separately rank any internships.

That's called "up a creek without a paddle" and is a very strong indication for post-match scramble into any internship you can find.

Best of luck and enjoy the ride!

jd

 

[TCOM-2006]

Correct, this means that it is not dually accredited. The only drawback to not being dually accredited is that you will not be board certified by the ACGME (just the AOA.)

I don't see any benefit in being certified by the ACGME vs. the AOA. Your job opportunities will be the same.

just a point of clarification - ACGME grants accred. to ACGME residency programs - does not grant board certification. board certification is by the individual specialty medical board - see: http://www.abms.org/member.asp

so in other words - if you do an ACGME program - pass your boards, you will be... john smith, do, facp - rather than the osteopathic board certif version ... john smith, do, facoi (amer coll of osteop internists)