HENRY FORD INTERNAL MEDICINE REVIEW AFTER GRADUATION

[Rolling.Stone]

I have recently graduated from Henry Ford internal medicine residency program and have decided to write this review due to multiple questions I’ve been getting from friends applying for residency. In general, I hated working in Henry Ford but would like to mention the Pros and Cons of this program. I do believe that the cons outweigh the pros by a factor of 20. There was a previous review from someone named Medicine_Gal, but for some reason it was deleted. I did agree with 90% of what she had said.

Pros:

1. Intense Training: I think the training in this residency program is good. It’s VERY intense (too intense in a lot of cases). As a result, by the time you are done with residency, your confidence level is quite good as you have taken care of A LOT of sick patients.

2. Fellowship Placement: Even though, research opportunities in Henry Ford are extremely scarce, the fellowship placement is overall good. Most of the residents match into fellowships (mostly in the mid-west).

Cons:

1. Resident Abuse:

From three years of training in this hospital, I can tell you that this program is ABSOLUTELY ABUSIVE towards its residents (in every possible way). Residents are used as ‘cheap labor’. Our schedules can be changed anytime during the training to “fill” hospital’s deficiencies. Best example is a few years ago when they forced residents to do the “hospitalist floor” due to lack of hospitalists (the hospitalist salary is really low there so their hiring rates are low). Due to deficiency of hospitalists, residents were forced to give up an elective from their schedule and were made to do the hospitalist floor. That floor is now a part of the “training” to give them the “hospitalist experience” (needless to say that this floor is not 7 on 7 off). Another area where residents are being screwed is the “telemetry” service. The telemetry service which has close to 60 beds is covered by the residents and the hospitalist service. However, the hospitalists don’t do any admission until the residents have been capped (cap is 28 patients). This means that if you start the day at 6AM, the residents will keep admitting patients while the hospitalists chill out in their rooms. By the time the residents have 28 patients, there will be another 20 being discharged (telemetry has extremely high turnover) so they can now admit 20 more. Needless to say that on a daily basis, 3-4 patients can hit the floor at the same time and one residents has to admit all of them while the on-call hospitalist chills out in his room. In summary, the residents continue to admit day in and day out. Program does not realize that such a structure creates an unsafe environment of patients by promoting resident fatigue. Quality of patient care drastically falls when the residents are under so much stress. A logical question would be, “WHY CAN’T WE SPLIT THE ADMISSIONS WITH THE HOSPITALISTS?”… I’ll tell you why, BECAUSE NO ONE GIVES A DAMN. Program knows they can do this to the residents as they have absolutely no power to say or do anything. If someone ever tries to raise such concerns, he’s the ‘trouble maker’ and ‘need extra attention’.


2. Malignant Environment in the ICU:

Henry Ford has one of the biggest ICUs in the country (literally). Residents are made to do 30 HOUR CALLS EVERY 4TH DAY (yes, like they used to do in 1980s). A problem which is easily fixable by creating a night float system in the ICU. Residents do 4 months of ICUs, all in 2nd year (don’t know why they can’t be split). The turnover in Henry Ford ICUs is massive. They have the sickest of the sickest patients. Every single resident who is on call gets destroyed on every single 30hr call. On top of that, some of the ICU staff are very malignant. One particular staff worth mentioning is Dr. Jenni Swideren (I am not using her actual name). Dr Swideren (who is also the director of the ICU) has taken it upon herself to choose 4-5 residents every year that she wants to destroy. She routinely harasses them and calls the program director with random complaints on a routine basis. In fact, based on her rounding style, most residents agree that she is psychologically unstable. There is absolute disregard of the fact that this vicious cycle of 30hr calls can take a toll on residents’ physical and mental health. Instead of appreciating the hard work, residents are routinely abused by this (and other) staff physicians. Staff seems to forget that coming in and rounding on 18 patients in the morning and getting summaries of what happened to them is one tenth of the work the resident had to do to admit them over night. If a small mistake is made by the resident, they are declared to be not competent enough to graduate from the program. Several residents over the past few years had to do 4 years in this program (instead of 3) because of these declarations.


3. 30 hour call schedules:

We have 30 hour calls on the floors as well. Every single one of them is brutal. The patients do not stop coming until residents are capped. These calls are inhumane. There are no well defined call rooms to take a nap. On call residents are wandering in the hallways (like zombies) all day. The number of call rooms have actually decreased since the time I started residency there. Program is aware but does not care.


4. LACK OF APPRECIATION:

This aspect of training jumps out the most. Despite all the hard work we do and the pain we are put through, there is absolutely no appreciation from anyone. Residents are treated like trash.


5. Poor continuity clinic setup:

Unfortunately, Henry Ford’s continuity clinic has no ‘continuity’. There are 13 patients scheduled on a full day clinic and you are lucky (literally speaking) if one of them is a follow-up patient you saw previously. I don’t know why they fail to do that, but there is absolutely no continuity. Every patient has a 30 minute appointment. If they show up 30 minutes late, they will be seen. If they show up 2 hours late, they will be seen. If they show up at the end of the god damn day, they will still be seen. All of our patients know they can show up whenever they feel like it and they will still be seen. As a result, a 8am to 5pm clinic turns into a 8am to 7pm clinic. Program will not fix this as they will lose money if late patients are not seen.

(PS: In most ‘reasonable’ hospitals, there is usually a grace period for each patient e.g if they don’t show up within 15 minutes after their appointment start time, they will not be seen by the clinic)


6. Lack of safe Transfers:

Henry Ford is a tertiary hospital so we get transfers from outside hospitals on a daily basis. Needless to say, these incoming patients are generally very sick (hence the need for transfer to a tertiary hospital). There is team of abusive, foul-mouth, incompetent and careless nurses called ATMO that is responsible for bed assignment to these patients and also gives report to the resident who will admit the patient. The reports given by these ATMO nurses are ridiculous ‘one-liners’. Let me give you guys an example. ATMO report was “This guy is a 65 year old male with cirrhosis, coming in from Saginaw, for liver transplant evaluation. He is on cefepime, vancomycin, flagyl, keppra and Bactrim”. My response, “why is he on all those medications?”. ATMO response, “I don’t know, he will come with paperwork so you can go through that and find out, we don’t have time to go through details of every patient”…….The patient comes to the floor, apparently, he was in the outside hospital for 45 days, was in their ICU for septic shock, had acute kidney injury and now on hemodialysis, had a hemorrhagic stroke in the ICU resulting in complicated seizures with aspiration pneumonia requiring more ABx, cultures were growing MRSA in blood with evidence of infective endocarditis, also had a tracheostomy and PEG tube in place. Now compare this patient’s presentation with the information given to the resident by ATMO. If you try to ask them questions, they will abuse the hell out of you over the phone and report you to the program. You are not allowed to contact the transferring hospital physician to ask questions about the patient AS IT IS AGAINST HOSPITAL POLICY. I repeat, IT IS AGAINST HENRY FORD HOSPITAL’S POLICY FOR THE ADMITTING RESIDENT TO CALL THE TRANSFERRING HOSPITAL TO GET MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE PATIENT. We confirmed this with the program’s leadership.


7. Lack of Support from the Department:

Imagine this, you are working on your 30 hour shift. You admit an IV drug abuser for missed hemodialysis. He is constantly harassing you to give him IV narcotics and IV Benadryl for no apparent reason (obviously, to get high). You speak with him and tell him that you will only be able to prescribe him non-narcotic pain medications. He is furious and calls the patient advocate and tells her that he’s not happy with the attitude of the residents and they are not treating him with respect. The matter obviously reaches your program director. What should the program do about that? I’ll tell you what Henry Ford will do. They will destroy you over this. You will carry the reputation of a ‘bad resident’ for the remaining years you stay there. The PD, in this case, will be your biggest enemy. Your job will be threatened by him and you might even lose it. There will be absolutely no consideration of the context. They will mark it as your fault and you will continue to suffer. No one will realize/appreciate that you did the right think. Everyone will focus on how a patient was unhappy by the services provided to him by you. Your life will be a living hell.


8. Scarce Research Opportunities

Its not really a true academic institution. Work load is so much that there is barely any time to read up on things. Same goes for research. To get a decent research project, you have to jump through so many hoops that by the end, you’ll have second thoughts about applying for fellowships.


Overall Impression:

My overall impression of Henry Ford is a crappy one. If I could go back in time and do it all over again, this place would not even be in my top 10. You should train in a program that respects you. A program that does not threaten to fire you because one single psychologically unstable ICU staff thinks that you are incompetent. A program that does not treat you based on their monetary needs. A program that cares about your learning. And most importantly, a program that treats you like a human being.

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[flipmd]

Saving for posterity before it gets deleted!

I have recently graduated from Henry Ford internal medicine residency program and have decided to write this review due to multiple questions I’ve been getting from friends applying for residency. In general, I hated working in Henry Ford but would like to mention the Pros and Cons of this program. I do believe that the cons outweigh the pros by a factor of 20. There was a previous review from someone named Medicine_Gal, but for some reason it was deleted. I did agree with 90% of what she had said.

Pros:

1. Intense Training: I think the training in this residency program is good. It’s VERY intense (too intense in a lot of cases). As a result, by the time you are done with residency, your confidence level is quite good as you have taken care of A LOT of sick patients.

2. Fellowship Placement: Even though, research opportunities in Henry Ford are extremely scarce, the fellowship placement is overall good. Most of the residents match into fellowships (mostly in the mid-west).

Cons:

1. Resident Abuse:

From three years of training in this hospital, I can tell you that this program is ABSOLUTELY ABUSIVE towards its residents (in every possible way). Residents are used as ‘cheap labor’. Our schedules can be changed anytime during the training to “fill” hospital’s deficiencies. Best example is a few years ago when they forced residents to do the “hospitalist floor” due to lack of hospitalists (the hospitalist salary is really low there so their hiring rates are low). Due to deficiency of hospitalists, residents were forced to give up an elective from their schedule and were made to do the hospitalist floor. That floor is now a part of the “training” to give them the “hospitalist experience” (needless to say that this floor is not 7 on 7 off). Another area where residents are being screwed is the “telemetry” service. The telemetry service which has close to 60 beds is covered by the residents and the hospitalist service. However, the hospitalists don’t do any admission until the residents have been capped (cap is 28 patients). This means that if you start the day at 6AM, the residents will keep admitting patients while the hospitalists chill out in their rooms. By the time the residents have 28 patients, there will be another 20 being discharged (telemetry has extremely high turnover) so they can now admit 20 more. Needless to say that on a daily basis, 3-4 patients can hit the floor at the same time and one residents has to admit all of them while the on-call hospitalist chills out in his room. In summary, the residents continue to admit day in and day out. Program does not realize that such a structure creates an unsafe environment of patients by promoting resident fatigue. Quality of patient care drastically falls when the residents are under so much stress. A logical question would be, “WHY CAN’T WE SPLIT THE ADMISSIONS WITH THE HOSPITALISTS?”… I’ll tell you why, BECAUSE NO ONE GIVES A DAMN. Program knows they can do this to the residents as they have absolutely no power to say or do anything. If someone ever tries to raise such concerns, he’s the ‘trouble maker’ and ‘need extra attention’.


2. Malignant Environment in the ICU:

Henry Ford has one of the biggest ICUs in the country (literally). Residents are made to do 30 HOUR CALLS EVERY 4TH DAY (yes, like they used to do in 1980s). A problem which is easily fixable by creating a night float system in the ICU. Residents do 4 months of ICUs, all in 2nd year (don’t know why they can’t be split). The turnover in Henry Ford ICUs is massive. They have the sickest of the sickest patients. Every single resident who is on call gets destroyed on every single 30hr call. On top of that, some of the ICU staff are very malignant. One particular staff worth mentioning is Dr. Jenni Swideren (I am not using her actual name). Dr Swideren (who is also the director of the ICU) has taken it upon herself to choose 4-5 residents every year that she wants to destroy. She routinely harasses them and calls the program director with random complaints on a routine basis. In fact, based on her rounding style, most residents agree that she is psychologically unstable. There is absolute disregard of the fact that this vicious cycle of 30hr calls can take a toll on residents’ physical and mental health. Instead of appreciating the hard work, residents are routinely abused by this (and other) staff physicians. Staff seems to forget that coming in and rounding on 18 patients in the morning and getting summaries of what happened to them is one tenth of the work the resident had to do to admit them over night. If a small mistake is made by the resident, they are declared to be not competent enough to graduate from the program. Several residents over the past few years had to do 4 years in this program (instead of 3) because of these declarations.


3. 30 hour call schedules:

We have 30 hour calls on the floors as well. Every single one of them is brutal. The patients do not stop coming until residents are capped. These calls are inhumane. There are no well defined call rooms to take a nap. On call residents are wandering in the hallways (like zombies) all day. The number of call rooms have actually decreased since the time I started residency there. Program is aware but does not care.


4. LACK OF APPRECIATION:

This aspect of training jumps out the most. Despite all the hard work we do and the pain we are put through, there is absolutely no appreciation from anyone. Residents are treated like trash.


5. Poor continuity clinic setup:

Unfortunately, Henry Ford’s continuity clinic has no ‘continuity’. There are 13 patients scheduled on a full day clinic and you are lucky (literally speaking) if one of them is a follow-up patient you saw previously. I don’t know why they fail to do that, but there is absolutely no continuity. Every patient has a 30 minute appointment. If they show up 30 minutes late, they will be seen. If they show up 2 hours late, they will be seen. If they show up at the end of the god damn day, they will still be seen. All of our patients know they can show up whenever they feel like it and they will still be seen. As a result, a 8am to 5pm clinic turns into a 8am to 7pm clinic. Program will not fix this as they will lose money if late patients are not seen.

(PS: In most ‘reasonable’ hospitals, there is usually a grace period for each patient e.g if they don’t show up within 15 minutes after their appointment start time, they will not be seen by the clinic)


6. Lack of safe Transfers:

Henry Ford is a tertiary hospital so we get transfers from outside hospitals on a daily basis. Needless to say, these incoming patients are generally very sick (hence the need for transfer to a tertiary hospital). There is team of abusive, foul-mouth, incompetent and careless nurses called ATMO that is responsible for bed assignment to these patients and also gives report to the resident who will admit the patient. The reports given by these ATMO nurses are ridiculous ‘one-liners’. Let me give you guys an example. ATMO report was “This guy is a 65 year old male with cirrhosis, coming in from Saginaw, for liver transplant evaluation. He is on cefepime, vancomycin, flagyl, keppra and Bactrim”. My response, “why is he on all those medications?”. ATMO response, “I don’t know, he will come with paperwork so you can go through that and find out, we don’t have time to go through details of every patient”…….The patient comes to the floor, apparently, he was in the outside hospital for 45 days, was in their ICU for septic shock, had acute kidney injury and now on hemodialysis, had a hemorrhagic stroke in the ICU resulting in complicated seizures with aspiration pneumonia requiring more ABx, cultures were growing MRSA in blood with evidence of infective endocarditis, also had a tracheostomy and PEG tube in place. Now compare this patient’s presentation with the information given to the resident by ATMO. If you try to ask them questions, they will abuse the hell out of you over the phone and report you to the program. You are not allowed to contact the transferring hospital physician to ask questions about the patient AS IT IS AGAINST HOSPITAL POLICY. I repeat, IT IS AGAINST HENRY FORD HOSPITAL’S POLICY FOR THE ADMITTING RESIDENT TO CALL THE TRANSFERRING HOSPITAL TO GET MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE PATIENT. We confirmed this with the program’s leadership.


7. Lack of Support from the Department:

Imagine this, you are working on your 30 hour shift. You admit an IV drug abuser for missed hemodialysis. He is constantly harassing you to give him IV narcotics and IV Benadryl for no apparent reason (obviously, to get high). You speak with him and tell him that you will only be able to prescribe him non-narcotic pain medications. He is furious and calls the patient advocate and tells her that he’s not happy with the attitude of the residents and they are not treating him with respect. The matter obviously reaches your program director. What should the program do about that? I’ll tell you what Henry Ford will do. They will destroy you over this. You will carry the reputation of a ‘bad resident’ for the remaining years you stay there. The PD, in this case, will be your biggest enemy. Your job will be threatened by him and you might even lose it. There will be absolutely no consideration of the context. They will mark it as your fault and you will continue to suffer. No one will realize/appreciate that you did the right think. Everyone will focus on how a patient was unhappy by the services provided to him by you. Your life will be a living hell.


8. Scarce Research Opportunities

Its not really a true academic institution. Work load is so much that there is barely any time to read up on things. Same goes for research. To get a decent research project, you have to jump through so many hoops that by the end, you’ll have second thoughts about applying for fellowships.


Overall Impression:

My overall impression of Henry Ford is a crappy one. If I could go back in time and do it all over again, this place would not even be in my top 10. You should train in a program that respects you. A program that does not threaten to fire you because one single psychologically unstable ICU staff thinks that you are incompetent. A program that does not treat you based on their monetary needs. A program that cares about your learning. And most importantly, a program that treats you like a human being.

 

[IMreshopeful]

I agree most of that sounds horrible. However, we had 30 hour call as residents in my ICU. This is not out of the norm at many academic medicine residencies.

 

[whoknows2012]

I agree most of that sounds horrible. However, we had 30 hour call as residents in my ICU. This is not out of the norm at many academic medicine residencies.

Same here. 2 months of micu/ccu 2nd year with q4 27 hour call. It was bad but not crazy terrible. We did not have 24 hour call on ward months though.

 

[poopybutt]

I have recently graduated from Henry Ford internal medicine residency program and have decided to write this review due to multiple questions I’ve been getting from friends applying for residency. In general, I hated working in Henry Ford but would like to mention the Pros and Cons of this program. I do believe that the cons outweigh the pros by a factor of 20. There was a previous review from someone named Medicine_Gal, but for some reason it was deleted. I did agree with 90% of what she had said.

Pros:

1. Intense Training: I think the training in this residency program is good. It’s VERY intense (too intense in a lot of cases). As a result, by the time you are done with residency, your confidence level is quite good as you have taken care of A LOT of sick patients.

2. Fellowship Placement: Even though, research opportunities in Henry Ford are extremely scarce, the fellowship placement is overall good. Most of the residents match into fellowships (mostly in the mid-west).

Cons:

1. Resident Abuse:

From three years of training in this hospital, I can tell you that this program is ABSOLUTELY ABUSIVE towards its residents (in every possible way). Residents are used as ‘cheap labor’. Our schedules can be changed anytime during the training to “fill” hospital’s deficiencies. Best example is a few years ago when they forced residents to do the “hospitalist floor” due to lack of hospitalists (the hospitalist salary is really low there so their hiring rates are low). Due to deficiency of hospitalists, residents were forced to give up an elective from their schedule and were made to do the hospitalist floor. That floor is now a part of the “training” to give them the “hospitalist experience” (needless to say that this floor is not 7 on 7 off). Another area where residents are being screwed is the “telemetry” service. The telemetry service which has close to 60 beds is covered by the residents and the hospitalist service. However, the hospitalists don’t do any admission until the residents have been capped (cap is 28 patients). This means that if you start the day at 6AM, the residents will keep admitting patients while the hospitalists chill out in their rooms. By the time the residents have 28 patients, there will be another 20 being discharged (telemetry has extremely high turnover) so they can now admit 20 more. Needless to say that on a daily basis, 3-4 patients can hit the floor at the same time and one residents has to admit all of them while the on-call hospitalist chills out in his room. In summary, the residents continue to admit day in and day out. Program does not realize that such a structure creates an unsafe environment of patients by promoting resident fatigue. Quality of patient care drastically falls when the residents are under so much stress. A logical question would be, “WHY CAN’T WE SPLIT THE ADMISSIONS WITH THE HOSPITALISTS?”… I’ll tell you why, BECAUSE NO ONE GIVES A DAMN. Program knows they can do this to the residents as they have absolutely no power to say or do anything. If someone ever tries to raise such concerns, he’s the ‘trouble maker’ and ‘need extra attention’.


2. Malignant Environment in the ICU:

Henry Ford has one of the biggest ICUs in the country (literally). Residents are made to do 30 HOUR CALLS EVERY 4TH DAY (yes, like they used to do in 1980s). A problem which is easily fixable by creating a night float system in the ICU. Residents do 4 months of ICUs, all in 2nd year (don’t know why they can’t be split). The turnover in Henry Ford ICUs is massive. They have the sickest of the sickest patients. Every single resident who is on call gets destroyed on every single 30hr call. On top of that, some of the ICU staff are very malignant. One particular staff worth mentioning is Dr. Jenni Swideren (I am not using her actual name). Dr Swideren (who is also the director of the ICU) has taken it upon herself to choose 4-5 residents every year that she wants to destroy. She routinely harasses them and calls the program director with random complaints on a routine basis. In fact, based on her rounding style, most residents agree that she is psychologically unstable. There is absolute disregard of the fact that this vicious cycle of 30hr calls can take a toll on residents’ physical and mental health. Instead of appreciating the hard work, residents are routinely abused by this (and other) staff physicians. Staff seems to forget that coming in and rounding on 18 patients in the morning and getting summaries of what happened to them is one tenth of the work the resident had to do to admit them over night. If a small mistake is made by the resident, they are declared to be not competent enough to graduate from the program. Several residents over the past few years had to do 4 years in this program (instead of 3) because of these declarations.


3. 30 hour call schedules:

We have 30 hour calls on the floors as well. Every single one of them is brutal. The patients do not stop coming until residents are capped. These calls are inhumane. There are no well defined call rooms to take a nap. On call residents are wandering in the hallways (like zombies) all day. The number of call rooms have actually decreased since the time I started residency there. Program is aware but does not care.


4. LACK OF APPRECIATION:

This aspect of training jumps out the most. Despite all the hard work we do and the pain we are put through, there is absolutely no appreciation from anyone. Residents are treated like trash.


5. Poor continuity clinic setup:

Unfortunately, Henry Ford’s continuity clinic has no ‘continuity’. There are 13 patients scheduled on a full day clinic and you are lucky (literally speaking) if one of them is a follow-up patient you saw previously. I don’t know why they fail to do that, but there is absolutely no continuity. Every patient has a 30 minute appointment. If they show up 30 minutes late, they will be seen. If they show up 2 hours late, they will be seen. If they show up at the end of the god damn day, they will still be seen. All of our patients know they can show up whenever they feel like it and they will still be seen. As a result, a 8am to 5pm clinic turns into a 8am to 7pm clinic. Program will not fix this as they will lose money if late patients are not seen.

(PS: In most ‘reasonable’ hospitals, there is usually a grace period for each patient e.g if they don’t show up within 15 minutes after their appointment start time, they will not be seen by the clinic)


6. Lack of safe Transfers:

Henry Ford is a tertiary hospital so we get transfers from outside hospitals on a daily basis. Needless to say, these incoming patients are generally very sick (hence the need for transfer to a tertiary hospital). There is team of abusive, foul-mouth, incompetent and careless nurses called ATMO that is responsible for bed assignment to these patients and also gives report to the resident who will admit the patient. The reports given by these ATMO nurses are ridiculous ‘one-liners’. Let me give you guys an example. ATMO report was “This guy is a 65 year old male with cirrhosis, coming in from Saginaw, for liver transplant evaluation. He is on cefepime, vancomycin, flagyl, keppra and Bactrim”. My response, “why is he on all those medications?”. ATMO response, “I don’t know, he will come with paperwork so you can go through that and find out, we don’t have time to go through details of every patient”…….The patient comes to the floor, apparently, he was in the outside hospital for 45 days, was in their ICU for septic shock, had acute kidney injury and now on hemodialysis, had a hemorrhagic stroke in the ICU resulting in complicated seizures with aspiration pneumonia requiring more ABx, cultures were growing MRSA in blood with evidence of infective endocarditis, also had a tracheostomy and PEG tube in place. Now compare this patient’s presentation with the information given to the resident by ATMO. If you try to ask them questions, they will abuse the hell out of you over the phone and report you to the program. You are not allowed to contact the transferring hospital physician to ask questions about the patient AS IT IS AGAINST HOSPITAL POLICY. I repeat, IT IS AGAINST HENRY FORD HOSPITAL’S POLICY FOR THE ADMITTING RESIDENT TO CALL THE TRANSFERRING HOSPITAL TO GET MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE PATIENT. We confirmed this with the program’s leadership.


7. Lack of Support from the Department:

Imagine this, you are working on your 30 hour shift. You admit an IV drug abuser for missed hemodialysis. He is constantly harassing you to give him IV narcotics and IV Benadryl for no apparent reason (obviously, to get high). You speak with him and tell him that you will only be able to prescribe him non-narcotic pain medications. He is furious and calls the patient advocate and tells her that he’s not happy with the attitude of the residents and they are not treating him with respect. The matter obviously reaches your program director. What should the program do about that? I’ll tell you what Henry Ford will do. They will destroy you over this. You will carry the reputation of a ‘bad resident’ for the remaining years you stay there. The PD, in this case, will be your biggest enemy. Your job will be threatened by him and you might even lose it. There will be absolutely no consideration of the context. They will mark it as your fault and you will continue to suffer. No one will realize/appreciate that you did the right think. Everyone will focus on how a patient was unhappy by the services provided to him by you. Your life will be a living hell.


8. Scarce Research Opportunities

Its not really a true academic institution. Work load is so much that there is barely any time to read up on things. Same goes for research. To get a decent research project, you have to jump through so many hoops that by the end, you’ll have second thoughts about applying for fellowships.


Overall Impression:

My overall impression of Henry Ford is a crappy one. If I could go back in time and do it all over again, this place would not even be in my top 10. You should train in a program that respects you. A program that does not threaten to fire you because one single psychologically unstable ICU staff thinks that you are incompetent. A program that does not treat you based on their monetary needs. A program that cares about your learning. And most importantly, a program that treats you like a human being.

Trying to take as much objectively out of that as I can but it does seem terrible. That is unfortunate and I am sorry you trained there so unhappily. If these things are true you should report that to the ACGME. I know other residents who have done that in other programs and they take these things seriously.

Yikes, glad my program is nothing like that. Residency isn't a walk in the park, but I love most everything about my program.

 

[DaTruMD]

I have recently graduated from Henry Ford internal medicine residency program and have decided to write this review due to multiple questions I’ve been getting from friends applying for residency. In general, I hated working in Henry Ford but would like to mention the Pros and Cons of this program. I do believe that the cons outweigh the pros by a factor of 20. There was a previous review from someone named Medicine_Gal, but for some reason it was deleted. I did agree with 90% of what she had said.

Pros:

1. Intense Training: I think the training in this residency program is good. It’s VERY intense (too intense in a lot of cases). As a result, by the time you are done with residency, your confidence level is quite good as you have taken care of A LOT of sick patients.

2. Fellowship Placement: Even though, research opportunities in Henry Ford are extremely scarce, the fellowship placement is overall good. Most of the residents match into fellowships (mostly in the mid-west).

Cons:

1. Resident Abuse:

From three years of training in this hospital, I can tell you that this program is ABSOLUTELY ABUSIVE towards its residents (in every possible way). Residents are used as ‘cheap labor’. Our schedules can be changed anytime during the training to “fill” hospital’s deficiencies. Best example is a few years ago when they forced residents to do the “hospitalist floor” due to lack of hospitalists (the hospitalist salary is really low there so their hiring rates are low). Due to deficiency of hospitalists, residents were forced to give up an elective from their schedule and were made to do the hospitalist floor. That floor is now a part of the “training” to give them the “hospitalist experience” (needless to say that this floor is not 7 on 7 off). Another area where residents are being screwed is the “telemetry” service. The telemetry service which has close to 60 beds is covered by the residents and the hospitalist service. However, the hospitalists don’t do any admission until the residents have been capped (cap is 28 patients). This means that if you start the day at 6AM, the residents will keep admitting patients while the hospitalists chill out in their rooms. By the time the residents have 28 patients, there will be another 20 being discharged (telemetry has extremely high turnover) so they can now admit 20 more. Needless to say that on a daily basis, 3-4 patients can hit the floor at the same time and one residents has to admit all of them while the on-call hospitalist chills out in his room. In summary, the residents continue to admit day in and day out. Program does not realize that such a structure creates an unsafe environment of patients by promoting resident fatigue. Quality of patient care drastically falls when the residents are under so much stress. A logical question would be, “WHY CAN’T WE SPLIT THE ADMISSIONS WITH THE HOSPITALISTS?”… I’ll tell you why, BECAUSE NO ONE GIVES A DAMN. Program knows they can do this to the residents as they have absolutely no power to say or do anything. If someone ever tries to raise such concerns, he’s the ‘trouble maker’ and ‘need extra attention’.


2. Malignant Environment in the ICU:

Henry Ford has one of the biggest ICUs in the country (literally). Residents are made to do 30 HOUR CALLS EVERY 4TH DAY (yes, like they used to do in 1980s). A problem which is easily fixable by creating a night float system in the ICU. Residents do 4 months of ICUs, all in 2nd year (don’t know why they can’t be split). The turnover in Henry Ford ICUs is massive. They have the sickest of the sickest patients. Every single resident who is on call gets destroyed on every single 30hr call. On top of that, some of the ICU staff are very malignant. One particular staff worth mentioning is Dr. Jenni Swideren (I am not using her actual name). Dr Swideren (who is also the director of the ICU) has taken it upon herself to choose 4-5 residents every year that she wants to destroy. She routinely harasses them and calls the program director with random complaints on a routine basis. In fact, based on her rounding style, most residents agree that she is psychologically unstable. There is absolute disregard of the fact that this vicious cycle of 30hr calls can take a toll on residents’ physical and mental health. Instead of appreciating the hard work, residents are routinely abused by this (and other) staff physicians. Staff seems to forget that coming in and rounding on 18 patients in the morning and getting summaries of what happened to them is one tenth of the work the resident had to do to admit them over night. If a small mistake is made by the resident, they are declared to be not competent enough to graduate from the program. Several residents over the past few years had to do 4 years in this program (instead of 3) because of these declarations.


3. 30 hour call schedules:

We have 30 hour calls on the floors as well. Every single one of them is brutal. The patients do not stop coming until residents are capped. These calls are inhumane. There are no well defined call rooms to take a nap. On call residents are wandering in the hallways (like zombies) all day. The number of call rooms have actually decreased since the time I started residency there. Program is aware but does not care.


4. LACK OF APPRECIATION:

This aspect of training jumps out the most. Despite all the hard work we do and the pain we are put through, there is absolutely no appreciation from anyone. Residents are treated like trash.


5. Poor continuity clinic setup:

Unfortunately, Henry Ford’s continuity clinic has no ‘continuity’. There are 13 patients scheduled on a full day clinic and you are lucky (literally speaking) if one of them is a follow-up patient you saw previously. I don’t know why they fail to do that, but there is absolutely no continuity. Every patient has a 30 minute appointment. If they show up 30 minutes late, they will be seen. If they show up 2 hours late, they will be seen. If they show up at the end of the god damn day, they will still be seen. All of our patients know they can show up whenever they feel like it and they will still be seen. As a result, a 8am to 5pm clinic turns into a 8am to 7pm clinic. Program will not fix this as they will lose money if late patients are not seen.

(PS: In most ‘reasonable’ hospitals, there is usually a grace period for each patient e.g if they don’t show up within 15 minutes after their appointment start time, they will not be seen by the clinic)


6. Lack of safe Transfers:

Henry Ford is a tertiary hospital so we get transfers from outside hospitals on a daily basis. Needless to say, these incoming patients are generally very sick (hence the need for transfer to a tertiary hospital). There is team of abusive, foul-mouth, incompetent and careless nurses called ATMO that is responsible for bed assignment to these patients and also gives report to the resident who will admit the patient. The reports given by these ATMO nurses are ridiculous ‘one-liners’. Let me give you guys an example. ATMO report was “This guy is a 65 year old male with cirrhosis, coming in from Saginaw, for liver transplant evaluation. He is on cefepime, vancomycin, flagyl, keppra and Bactrim”. My response, “why is he on all those medications?”. ATMO response, “I don’t know, he will come with paperwork so you can go through that and find out, we don’t have time to go through details of every patient”…….The patient comes to the floor, apparently, he was in the outside hospital for 45 days, was in their ICU for septic shock, had acute kidney injury and now on hemodialysis, had a hemorrhagic stroke in the ICU resulting in complicated seizures with aspiration pneumonia requiring more ABx, cultures were growing MRSA in blood with evidence of infective endocarditis, also had a tracheostomy and PEG tube in place. Now compare this patient’s presentation with the information given to the resident by ATMO. If you try to ask them questions, they will abuse the hell out of you over the phone and report you to the program. You are not allowed to contact the transferring hospital physician to ask questions about the patient AS IT IS AGAINST HOSPITAL POLICY. I repeat, IT IS AGAINST HENRY FORD HOSPITAL’S POLICY FOR THE ADMITTING RESIDENT TO CALL THE TRANSFERRING HOSPITAL TO GET MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE PATIENT. We confirmed this with the program’s leadership.


7. Lack of Support from the Department:

Imagine this, you are working on your 30 hour shift. You admit an IV drug abuser for missed hemodialysis. He is constantly harassing you to give him IV narcotics and IV Benadryl for no apparent reason (obviously, to get high). You speak with him and tell him that you will only be able to prescribe him non-narcotic pain medications. He is furious and calls the patient advocate and tells her that he’s not happy with the attitude of the residents and they are not treating him with respect. The matter obviously reaches your program director. What should the program do about that? I’ll tell you what Henry Ford will do. They will destroy you over this. You will carry the reputation of a ‘bad resident’ for the remaining years you stay there. The PD, in this case, will be your biggest enemy. Your job will be threatened by him and you might even lose it. There will be absolutely no consideration of the context. They will mark it as your fault and you will continue to suffer. No one will realize/appreciate that you did the right think. Everyone will focus on how a patient was unhappy by the services provided to him by you. Your life will be a living hell.


8. Scarce Research Opportunities

Its not really a true academic institution. Work load is so much that there is barely any time to read up on things. Same goes for research. To get a decent research project, you have to jump through so many hoops that by the end, you’ll have second thoughts about applying for fellowships.


Overall Impression:

My overall impression of Henry Ford is a crappy one. If I could go back in time and do it all over again, this place would not even be in my top 10. You should train in a program that respects you. A program that does not threaten to fire you because one single psychologically unstable ICU staff thinks that you are incompetent. A program that does not treat you based on their monetary needs. A program that cares about your learning. And most importantly, a program that treats you like a human being.

Saving.

 

[Rolling.Stone]

I did forget to mention one additional point.

Program Coordinators: There are two PCs. Veronica and Fiz (again, not using real names). They are both unfriendly esp Fiz. Fiz is one of those people that if go to with a problem you are having, instead of helping you she will screw you over even more. She has the worse attitude a person can have and always has this disgusting sarcasm in her tone which annoys everyone. Veronica always has an attitude as well. If you ever get an interview from this program, on the interview day Fiz will act like she's the nicest person every. Don't fall for that. She's the worst.
I think this is more of a trickle down effect from the 'program's leadership'. With the exception or one or two associate PDs, every single person in the 'program's leadership' is malignant. Never helpful, always criticizing and trying their best to screw residents over.

 

[Crayola227]

Only good thing I saw was that some are "punished" for "incompetence" by going from 3 years --->4 years.

Cherish the program that "remediates" you leading to certification.

I get that this is a ploy to milk the residents more. Still, if there's any truth to the need it's a good thing.

Not every program will extend training time to remediate remediatable residents.

 

[needachange2017]

I agree most of that sounds horrible. However, we had 30 hour call as residents in my ICU. This is not out of the norm at many academic medicine residencies.

We do 30 hr calls q3 in sicu not out of the norm.

The transfer sign outs though, complete BS. I wouldnt even accept the patient with that kind of sign out especially patients as sick as you described.

 

[ordersol7]

Weird. There was another thread dedicated to bashing Henry Ford's IM only a few months ago. Is it really that bad?

 

[InvestingDoc]

Sorry to hear that you were so unhappy in this residency

Lots of programs do 30 hour calls still, we also had 4 months 3rd year as a resident of q4d 28 to 30 hour call. When I was in residency, we frequently had transfers from other hospitals that were also train wrecks but we were allowed to call them to ask for more information.

The best way to have your voice heard in my experience was telling the truth with little emotion, only facts, on the end of year ACGME survey. If the residents are honest, ACGME should take notice. Just remember to be as objective as possible and try to leave emotions at the door.

 

[Whatsyourname]

I'm also a recent grad from HFH, went into Allergy in FL afterwards. While many of the points above are valid, after moving on with my training I feel extremely well trained. While residents feel abused, they do leave very well trained. I guess I'd have to see my skills in the real world before I decide whether or not it was all worth it. Overall however I felt like I saw things I'd never see elsewhere, and worked with very bright staff I wouldnt of seen elsewhere, so I do think the Pros outweigh the Cons.

My one issue was I felt the lack of respect that previous reviewer mentioned, I feel like we were always getting threatening emails despite every resident being a hard working individual.

I would still recommend it to medical students as long as they are okay working in an intense setting, you will come out very comfortable with most diseases.

 

[Heme_Onc]

That's an intense review. I would say it does have some truth to it but not 100%. Training was intense and I feel that its helping me during fellowship. ATMO issue is true and needs to be fixed.

 

[ordersol7]

Sorry to hear that you were so unhappy in this residency

Lots of programs do 30 hour calls still, we also had 4 months 3rd year as a resident of q4d 28 to 30 hour call. When I was in residency, we frequently had transfers from other hospitals that were also train wrecks but we were allowed to call them to ask for more information.

The best way to have your voice heard in my experience was telling the truth with little emotion, only facts, on the end of year ACGME survey. If the residents are honest, ACGME should take notice. Just remember to be as objective as possible and try to leave emotions at the door.

My IM program is at a 400 bed tertiary center and we do q5 30 hr call for PGY2 and up. We are not only allowed but actively encouraged to call outside hospitals for info if necessary. It also has a reputation locally for being a fairly benign place to train in comparison to other programs and the residents seem pretty content even after the intense call. The difference is there's a general feeling the faculty/staff have your back in most situations and I have yet to experience an event of being completely disrespected like the OP describes. While long hours certainly suck, culture can go a long way to making a stressful experience tolerable or even productive.

 

[HelpPleaseMD]

it sucks that the program does not have your back. I feel like thats the biggest thing that makes a tough program enjoyable.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Sorry to hear that you were so unhappy in this residency

Lots of programs do 30 hour calls still, we also had 4 months 3rd year as a resident of q4d 28 to 30 hour call. When I was in residency, we frequently had transfers from other hospitals that were also train wrecks but we were allowed to call them to ask for more information.

The best way to have your voice heard in my experience was telling the truth with little emotion, only facts, on the end of year ACGME survey. If the residents are honest, ACGME should take notice. Just remember to be as objective as possible and try to leave emotions at the door.

Yeah, the call bit doesn't seem out of the norm...where I went (and hell I'm done with residency now...it was Indiana University) we did 28 hr q4-5 call, and I definitely did 4 or 5 month blocks of it (some of the med-peds people did 6 months). We did 4-5 total months of ICU as residents, although not all as PGY-2s.

If a transfer showed up with ****ty documentation (which wasn't all that uncommon), a lot of times you just went with the info you had and worked the patient up more or less from scratch. Calling these outside hospitals often doesn't yield much (or any) useful information anyway.

Sucks that the program doesn't have your back and targets certain residents. That's the only part of all of this that looks really lousy to me.

 

[K2016_]

I am very saddened to read the post above ... Tons of false information ... I just graduated from Henry Ford and demeaning my training program is very offensive and outrageous. While I hate getting into these "cyber arguments", I find it very imperative to rectify some of the information above.

Confidence and level of training: I just started fellowship and I can assure you I could not have been better trained for this. I've seen the whole spectrum of diseases, from the bread and butter to the Zebras and feel extremely confident taking care of all patients. I feel way more prepared compared to other coming from ivy league schools !!

Resident abuse: So you claim that we were used as "cheap labor"... Well, I would like to hear what everyone else on this post thinks given the following:

* Number of patients you take care a day of is 4 to 5 maximum. In the rant above, it was mentioned that the cap for telemetry is 28. Lets do some simple math here. So 28 patients MAX, 2 teams, 3 interns and 1 resident per team --- comes down to 4 - 5 patients / intern. You call that abuse ? I would challenge you to find another program where interns take care of 4 -5 patients on MAX everyday !!

* ICU experience: Henry Ford has one of the most comprehensive ICUs in the country. Needless to mention that early goal directed therapy and current CMS sepsis measures started there. What you failed to mention:
1- An ICU team has a cap of 16 patients with 5 residents and a fellow. (Again do the math).
2- There is an IN HOUSE FELLOW 24/7. If you think this is the norm, then please ask around.
3- Rounds are extremely well organized and efficient. Start time is 8:30 am and end before 11:00 am. Post call resident presents his patients first and leaves. I personally NEVER left after 10 am ..

Remediation: Let me tell you a little fact you missed: if a program decides to extend someone's training for one extra year, the program DOES NOT get re-imbursed by CMS for that year ... in other words it is the worse thing a program looking for "cheap labor" can do. They are losing 150K for doing that and believe me they have no trouble filling 200 positions every year (let alone 35). So the program re-mediates 1 or 2 residents a decade to make sure whoever is graduating can deliver safe care and can represent Henry Ford well !! I would be very worried about a program that would not re-mediate their trainees but rather simply fires them !!

Research: OK I urge everyone to check SGIM, SHM, ACC, Chest conferences from 2016 and simply look-up the number of presentations by HF residents (we had over 25 at SGIM this year). But again lets go over what research opportunities are available at Ford (AGAIN IF YOU THINK THIS IS THE NORM THEN PLEASE ASK AROUND):
1- Reimbursement: 3000$ for travel PGY1, $3000 PGY2 and up to $5400 PGY3. I challenge you to find a program that will pay HALF of that.
2- Biostats: There are tons of services offered by biostats FOR FREE: Data collection (yes they build cohorts for you !!), data analysis, preparing a poster AND RECENTLY HIRED A MEDICAL EDITOR TO HELP YOU WRITE THE MANUSCRIPT !! Yes that's how hard doing research at Ford is !!
3- Research elective: You can take an elective month / year to do NOTHING but research !! Doesn't seem like something a program looking for "cheap labor" would do.

Interviews: The program gives third year residents 7 days off for interviews (THOSE DO NOT COUNT AS VACATION DAYS !!! 7 days in addition to the 4 weeks of vacation !!) . Again if you think this is the NORM, PLEASE ASK AROUND.

It's really sad to read such appalling and misconceiving post !!

As for your personal attack on the leadership and staff, including the program coordinators: I'll say one thing to that: I MISS THEM THE MOST !! and good luck with your new program because I am sure you will not find people who are as helpful and sincere !!

 

[Cardsforlife]

I sympathize with the reviewer as it seems he has alot of bitterness inside of him which takes a while for it to go away. However, what was described above is not the general culture and environment present at HFH IM. The satisfaction and joy of taking care of patients, getting monthly positive feedback from rounding mentors, presenting and publishing research, and matching into desired fellowships, is really what keeps us going. This is not kindergarten and I do not expect anyone to be applying bandaids or golden stars after a tough call (although my badge literally has a gold star on it which was given to me as a funny gesture of appreciation during an ICU month).
All in all, we are an urban based tertiary care referral center that provides its residents with intense training that will prepare us for anything in the clinical world. Fellowship listings and publication/presentation listings are impressive on a yearly basis, including competitive fellowships and high impact journals, respectively.

 

[HelpPleaseMD]

I am very saddened to read the post above ... Tons of false information ... I just graduated from Henry Ford and demeaning my training program is very offensive and outrageous. While I hate getting into these "cyber arguments", I find it very imperative to rectify some of the information above.

Confidence and level of training: I just started fellowship and I can assure you I could not have been better trained for this. I've seen the whole spectrum of diseases, from the bread and butter to the Zebras and feel extremely confident taking care of all patients. I feel way more prepared compared to other coming from ivy league schools !!

Resident abuse: So you claim that we were used as "cheap labor"... Well, I would like to hear what everyone else on this post thinks given the following:

* Number of patients you take care a day of is 4 to 5 maximum. In the rant above, it was mentioned that the cap for telemetry is 28. Lets do some simple math here. So 28 patients MAX, 2 teams, 3 interns and 1 resident per team --- comes down to 4 - 5 patients / intern. You call that abuse ? I would challenge you to find another program where interns take care of 4 -5 patients on MAX everyday !!

* ICU experience: Henry Ford has one of the most comprehensive ICUs in the country. Needless to mention that early goal directed therapy and current CMS sepsis measures started there. What you failed to mention:
1- An ICU team has a cap of 16 patients with 5 residents and a fellow. (Again do the math).
2- There is an IN HOUSE FELLOW 24/7. If you think this is the norm, then please ask around.
3- Rounds are extremely well organized and efficient. Start time is 8:30 am and end before 11:00 am. Post call resident presents his patients first and leaves. I personally NEVER left after 10 am ..

Remediation: Let me tell you a little fact you missed: if a program decides to extend someone's training for one extra year, the program DOES NOT get re-imbursed by CMS for that year ... in other words it is the worse thing a program looking for "cheap labor" can do. They are losing 150K for doing that and believe me they have no trouble filling 200 positions every year (let alone 35). So the program re-mediates 1 or 2 residents a decade to make sure whoever is graduating can deliver safe care and can represent Henry Ford well !! I would be very worried about a program that would not re-mediate their trainees but rather simply fires them !!

Research: OK I urge everyone to check SGIM, SHM, ACC, Chest conferences from 2016 and simply look-up the number of presentations by HF residents (we had over 25 at SGIM this year). But again lets go over what research opportunities are available at Ford (AGAIN IF YOU THINK THIS IS THE NORM THEN PLEASE ASK AROUND):
1- Reimbursement: 3000$ for travel PGY1, $3000 PGY2 and up to $5400 PGY3. I challenge you to find a program that will pay HALF of that.
2- Biostats: There are tons of services offered by biostats FOR FREE: Data collection (yes they build cohorts for you !!), data analysis, preparing a poster AND RECENTLY HIRED A MEDICAL EDITOR TO HELP YOU WRITE THE MANUSCRIPT !! Yes that's how hard doing research at Ford is !!
3- Research elective: You can take an elective month / year to do NOTHING but research !! Doesn't seem like something a program looking for "cheap labor" would do.

Interviews: The program gives third year residents 7 days off for interviews (THOSE DO NOT COUNT AS VACATION DAYS !!! 7 days in addition to the 4 weeks of vacation !!) . Again if you think this is the NORM, PLEASE ASK AROUND.

It's really sad to read such appalling and misconceiving post !!

As for your personal attack on the leadership and staff, including the program coordinators: I'll say one thing to that: I MISS THEM THE MOST !! and good luck with your new program because I am sure you will not find people who are as helpful and sincere !!

sounds pretty cush to me.

 

[gutonc]

I'll tell you what. I'll believe one of these "Program X is the Worst/Best Residency Program in the Known Universe" posts, as soon as it's posted by someone who:
A) Registered on SDN more than 72h before the post
And
B) Has more than 3 posts, only 1 of which is in the program bashing/supporting thread

Caveat reador.

 

[veronicafiz]

I am very saddened to read the post above ... Tons of false information ... I just graduated from Henry Ford and demeaning my training program is very offensive and outrageous. While I hate getting into these "cyber arguments", I find it very imperative to rectify some of the information above.

Confidence and level of training: I just started fellowship and I can assure you I could not have been better trained for this. I've seen the whole spectrum of diseases, from the bread and butter to the Zebras and feel extremely confident taking care of all patients. I feel way more prepared compared to other coming from ivy league schools !!

Resident abuse: So you claim that we were used as "cheap labor"... Well, I would like to hear what everyone else on this post thinks given the following:

* Number of patients you take care a day of is 4 to 5 maximum. In the rant above, it was mentioned that the cap for telemetry is 28. Lets do some simple math here. So 28 patients MAX, 2 teams, 3 interns and 1 resident per team --- comes down to 4 - 5 patients / intern. You call that abuse ? I would challenge you to find another program where interns take care of 4 -5 patients on MAX everyday !!

* ICU experience: Henry Ford has one of the most comprehensive ICUs in the country. Needless to mention that early goal directed therapy and current CMS sepsis measures started there. What you failed to mention:
1- An ICU team has a cap of 16 patients with 5 residents and a fellow. (Again do the math).
2- There is an IN HOUSE FELLOW 24/7. If you think this is the norm, then please ask around.
3- Rounds are extremely well organized and efficient. Start time is 8:30 am and end before 11:00 am. Post call resident presents his patients first and leaves. I personally NEVER left after 10 am ..

Remediation: Let me tell you a little fact you missed: if a program decides to extend someone's training for one extra year, the program DOES NOT get re-imbursed by CMS for that year ... in other words it is the worse thing a program looking for "cheap labor" can do. They are losing 150K for doing that and believe me they have no trouble filling 200 positions every year (let alone 35). So the program re-mediates 1 or 2 residents a decade to make sure whoever is graduating can deliver safe care and can represent Henry Ford well !! I would be very worried about a program that would not re-mediate their trainees but rather simply fires them !!

Research: OK I urge everyone to check SGIM, SHM, ACC, Chest conferences from 2016 and simply look-up the number of presentations by HF residents (we had over 25 at SGIM this year). But again lets go over what research opportunities are available at Ford (AGAIN IF YOU THINK THIS IS THE NORM THEN PLEASE ASK AROUND):
1- Reimbursement: 3000$ for travel PGY1, $3000 PGY2 and up to $5400 PGY3. I challenge you to find a program that will pay HALF of that.
2- Biostats: There are tons of services offered by biostats FOR FREE: Data collection (yes they build cohorts for you !!), data analysis, preparing a poster AND RECENTLY HIRED A MEDICAL EDITOR TO HELP YOU WRITE THE MANUSCRIPT !! Yes that's how hard doing research at Ford is !!
3- Research elective: You can take an elective month / year to do NOTHING but research !! Doesn't seem like something a program looking for "cheap labor" would do.

Interviews: The program gives third year residents 7 days off for interviews (THOSE DO NOT COUNT AS VACATION DAYS !!! 7 days in addition to the 4 weeks of vacation !!) . Again if you think this is the NORM, PLEASE ASK AROUND.

It's really sad to read such appalling and misconceiving post !!

As for your personal attack on the leadership and staff, including the program coordinators: I'll say one thing to that: I MISS THEM THE MOST !! and good luck with your new program because I am sure you will not find people who are as helpful and sincere !!

 

[JamaicanHerb]

I sympathize with the reviewer as it seems he has alot of bitterness inside of him which takes a while for it to go away. However, what was described above is not the general culture and environment present at HFH IM. The satisfaction and joy of taking care of patients, getting monthly positive feedback from rounding mentors, presenting and publishing research, and matching into desired fellowships, is really what keeps us going. This is not kindergarten and I do not expect anyone to be applying bandaids or golden stars after a tough call (although my badge literally has a gold star on it which was given to me as a funny gesture of appreciation during an ICU month).
All in all, we are an urban based tertiary care referral center that provides its residents with intense training that will prepare us for anything in the clinical world. Fellowship listings and publication/presentation listings are impressive on a yearly basis, including competitive fellowships and high impact journals, respectively.

I am very saddened to read the post above ... Tons of false information ... I just graduated from Henry Ford and demeaning my training program is very offensive and outrageous. While I hate getting into these "cyber arguments", I find it very imperative to rectify some of the information above.

Confidence and level of training: I just started fellowship and I can assure you I could not have been better trained for this. I've seen the whole spectrum of diseases, from the bread and butter to the Zebras and feel extremely confident taking care of all patients. I feel way more prepared compared to other coming from ivy league schools !!

Resident abuse: So you claim that we were used as "cheap labor"... Well, I would like to hear what everyone else on this post thinks given the following:

* Number of patients you take care a day of is 4 to 5 maximum. In the rant above, it was mentioned that the cap for telemetry is 28. Lets do some simple math here. So 28 patients MAX, 2 teams, 3 interns and 1 resident per team --- comes down to 4 - 5 patients / intern. You call that abuse ? I would challenge you to find another program where interns take care of 4 -5 patients on MAX everyday !!

* ICU experience: Henry Ford has one of the most comprehensive ICUs in the country. Needless to mention that early goal directed therapy and current CMS sepsis measures started there. What you failed to mention:
1- An ICU team has a cap of 16 patients with 5 residents and a fellow. (Again do the math).
2- There is an IN HOUSE FELLOW 24/7. If you think this is the norm, then please ask around.
3- Rounds are extremely well organized and efficient. Start time is 8:30 am and end before 11:00 am. Post call resident presents his patients first and leaves. I personally NEVER left after 10 am ..

Remediation: Let me tell you a little fact you missed: if a program decides to extend someone's training for one extra year, the program DOES NOT get re-imbursed by CMS for that year ... in other words it is the worse thing a program looking for "cheap labor" can do. They are losing 150K for doing that and believe me they have no trouble filling 200 positions every year (let alone 35). So the program re-mediates 1 or 2 residents a decade to make sure whoever is graduating can deliver safe care and can represent Henry Ford well !! I would be very worried about a program that would not re-mediate their trainees but rather simply fires them !!

Research: OK I urge everyone to check SGIM, SHM, ACC, Chest conferences from 2016 and simply look-up the number of presentations by HF residents (we had over 25 at SGIM this year). But again lets go over what research opportunities are available at Ford (AGAIN IF YOU THINK THIS IS THE NORM THEN PLEASE ASK AROUND):
1- Reimbursement: 3000$ for travel PGY1, $3000 PGY2 and up to $5400 PGY3. I challenge you to find a program that will pay HALF of that.
2- Biostats: There are tons of services offered by biostats FOR FREE: Data collection (yes they build cohorts for you !!), data analysis, preparing a poster AND RECENTLY HIRED A MEDICAL EDITOR TO HELP YOU WRITE THE MANUSCRIPT !! Yes that's how hard doing research at Ford is !!
3- Research elective: You can take an elective month / year to do NOTHING but research !! Doesn't seem like something a program looking for "cheap labor" would do.

Interviews: The program gives third year residents 7 days off for interviews (THOSE DO NOT COUNT AS VACATION DAYS !!! 7 days in addition to the 4 weeks of vacation !!) . Again if you think this is the NORM, PLEASE ASK AROUND.

It's really sad to read such appalling and misconceiving post !!

As for your personal attack on the leadership and staff, including the program coordinators: I'll say one thing to that: I MISS THEM THE MOST !! and good luck with your new program because I am sure you will not find people who are as helpful and sincere !!

Sounds like some people from HF faculty are here pretending to be residents (Hi Fiz and Veronica).

 

[Gpan]

Sorry to hear that man. Well lessons learned right. Now move on and live on with your life. Warn others and maybe make some positive changes. I would even come back and be an attending. Try to be the advocate for those poor remaining Residents. Thanks for getting the words out.

 

[CatFactorial]

I think the creativity in the aliases is to be commended. Bravissimo!

Ultimately though if you are well trained that is the most important thing. Sorry if people aren't nice about it.

 

[ArkansasMed]

Whether or not this person's training was bad or not, they obviously did not have a supportive environment for her/him to discuss the stressors of training. For PD and alike who read this, I think it is important that programs incorporate two styles to their training. 1) A healthy environment with no judgement where residents can vent and create strategies to make things better. 2) Feedback that is both constructive but highlights positives the resident brings to the table. Sounds like this person felt like they could not talk to anyone nor felt they were doing a good job at work. Bet she/he would have felt better about her/his training if someone just talked to him and reminded him why she/he is a good resident .

 

[Rolling.Stone]

I am very saddened to read the post above ... Tons of false information ... I just graduated from Henry Ford and demeaning my training program is very offensive and outrageous. While I hate getting into these "cyber arguments", I find it very imperative to rectify some of the information above.

Confidence and level of training: I just started fellowship and I can assure you I could not have been better trained for this. I've seen the whole spectrum of diseases, from the bread and butter to the Zebras and feel extremely confident taking care of all patients. I feel way more prepared compared to other coming from ivy league schools !!

Resident abuse: So you claim that we were used as "cheap labor"... Well, I would like to hear what everyone else on this post thinks given the following:

* Number of patients you take care a day of is 4 to 5 maximum. In the rant above, it was mentioned that the cap for telemetry is 28. Lets do some simple math here. So 28 patients MAX, 2 teams, 3 interns and 1 resident per team --- comes down to 4 - 5 patients / intern. You call that abuse ? I would challenge you to find another program where interns take care of 4 -5 patients on MAX everyday !!

* ICU experience: Henry Ford has one of the most comprehensive ICUs in the country. Needless to mention that early goal directed therapy and current CMS sepsis measures started there. What you failed to mention:
1- An ICU team has a cap of 16 patients with 5 residents and a fellow. (Again do the math).
2- There is an IN HOUSE FELLOW 24/7. If you think this is the norm, then please ask around.
3- Rounds are extremely well organized and efficient. Start time is 8:30 am and end before 11:00 am. Post call resident presents his patients first and leaves. I personally NEVER left after 10 am ..

Remediation: Let me tell you a little fact you missed: if a program decides to extend someone's training for one extra year, the program DOES NOT get re-imbursed by CMS for that year ... in other words it is the worse thing a program looking for "cheap labor" can do. They are losing 150K for doing that and believe me they have no trouble filling 200 positions every year (let alone 35). So the program re-mediates 1 or 2 residents a decade to make sure whoever is graduating can deliver safe care and can represent Henry Ford well !! I would be very worried about a program that would not re-mediate their trainees but rather simply fires them !!

Research: OK I urge everyone to check SGIM, SHM, ACC, Chest conferences from 2016 and simply look-up the number of presentations by HF residents (we had over 25 at SGIM this year). But again lets go over what research opportunities are available at Ford (AGAIN IF YOU THINK THIS IS THE NORM THEN PLEASE ASK AROUND):
1- Reimbursement: 3000$ for travel PGY1, $3000 PGY2 and up to $5400 PGY3. I challenge you to find a program that will pay HALF of that.
2- Biostats: There are tons of services offered by biostats FOR FREE: Data collection (yes they build cohorts for you !!), data analysis, preparing a poster AND RECENTLY HIRED A MEDICAL EDITOR TO HELP YOU WRITE THE MANUSCRIPT !! Yes that's how hard doing research at Ford is !!
3- Research elective: You can take an elective month / year to do NOTHING but research !! Doesn't seem like something a program looking for "cheap labor" would do.

Interviews: The program gives third year residents 7 days off for interviews (THOSE DO NOT COUNT AS VACATION DAYS !!! 7 days in addition to the 4 weeks of vacation !!) . Again if you think this is the NORM, PLEASE ASK AROUND.

It's really sad to read such appalling and misconceiving post !!

As for your personal attack on the leadership and staff, including the program coordinators: I'll say one thing to that: I MISS THEM THE MOST !! and good luck with your new program because I am sure you will not find people who are as helpful and sincere !!

A few points I would like to make. Firstly, all of what he said is true, ON PAPER, but not in reality. All of those 'official policies' he mentioned are just for show to lure future residents into ranking this program high. Also, please note that

1. This person is NOT a resident. I guarantee you that he/she is someone from program administration etc.

2. Notice how this person didn't even talk about the ATMO issue?

3. Residents carry on an average of 7-8 patients per day. This does NOT include the number of admission they can get when they are on call which can be another 7-14 depending on the duration of call. Also keep in mind that each resident needs 4 days off per month which means someone is almost always off which increases the average number of patient carried. I personally have crossed the cap several times with the chief residents telling me "well its a SOFT cap, if you have 5 not so sick patients, they don't really count"

4. Sure they have money allocated for travel BUT, the way they make their residents work, not many residents ever get to use that money as they are working like dogs all year long.

5. ICU cap is 18 patients not 16, again pointing towards the fact that this person is not a recent grad from HF. Also, I would like to mention that each team is capped ALL THE TIME. There isn't a single day when the team is not capped. Another lie by this person is that ICU team has 5 residents. It does NOT. Each team has 3-4 residents one of which is always post-call.

6. Notice how he didn't even mention why residents can't split admissions with the hospitalist teams?

7. Notice how he didn't even comment on why Henry Ford residents are not allowed to call the outside hospital transferring physicians to get pertinent information about the patient (that can literally save their lives in many instances)?

8. Notice how he didn't comment on the total lack of continuity in the continuity clinic?

 

[Cardsforlife]

My account was actually created before the post was written.

 

[disorder]

damn my popcorn is all buttery and ****. so good.

 

[MediDoc1]

I am a Henry Ford Internal Medicine Graduate, This is also the first time I write on an internet forum, but I feel that what has been said about our program is not accurate and I have to raise my voice.

It is an intense program, but this does not means is an abusive program, this could not be any farther from the truth.

They care about your education and are concern about forming excellent internal medicine physicians. Henry Ford is not different than any other high quality training program in the country, all of them have 30 hr calls, all of them take care of highly complicated patients, all of them accept transfers from other hospitals without questions, because they know that if someone is asking for help is our duty as a Tertiary center to help our community hospitals.

What it has said about research is a complete lie, the department gives grants to residents to perform any research they want, all you have to do is come up with a question and someone gets paid to build the database for you, also the department pays for statisticians to help you. If you don’t believe me please go and check all of the national meetings you will always see several of henry ford residents presenting posters or even oral presentations (All payed by the department by the way).

Fellowship matching is excellent, residents match is top fellowship programs in the country not only in the mid-west like it was said, if you don’t believe me check the facts.

It is not until you finish and start working on the real world that you realize that the training you got at Henry Ford is second to none, it prepares you to be able to manage everything that is thrown your way. It is mind bottling to me that someone can’t see that and frankly it makes me angry. I am convinced that thanks to the training I got from Henry Ford, I have made it this far in my career and is due to the effort and dedication of the medical and supporting staff from the program. I will always be proud to say I graduated from Henry Ford Internal Medicine program.

 

[flipmd]

[/QUOTE]As a result, by the time you are done with residency, your confidence level is quite good as you have taken care of A LOT of sick patients [/QUOTE]


What's the problem then? You're already better than maybe a third of the grads from other programs, by being a good doctor right off the bat after residency.

 

[IMreshopeful]

I am a Henry Ford Internal Medicine Graduate, This is also the first time I write on an internet forum, but I feel that what has been said about our program is not accurate and I have to raise my voice.

It is an intense program, but this does not means is an abusive program, this could not be any farther from the truth.

They care about your education and are concern about forming excellent internal medicine physicians. Henry Ford is not different than any other high quality training program in the country, all of them have 30 hr calls, all of them take care of highly complicated patients, all of them accept transfers from other hospitals without questions, because they know that if someone is asking for help is our duty as a Tertiary center to help our community hospitals.

What it has said about research is a complete lie, the department gives grants to residents to perform any research they want, all you have to do is come up with a question and someone gets paid to build the database for you, also the department pays for statisticians to help you. If you don’t believe me please go and check all of the national meetings you will always see several of henry ford residents presenting posters or even oral presentations (All payed by the department by the way).

Fellowship matching is excellent, residents match is top fellowship programs in the country not only in the mid-west like it was said, if you don’t believe me check the facts.

It is not until you finish and start working on the real world that you realize that the training you got at Henry Ford is second to none, it prepares you to be able to manage everything that is thrown your way. It is mind bottling to me that someone can’t see that and frankly it makes me angry. I am convinced that thanks to the training I got from Henry Ford, I have made it this far in my career and is due to the effort and dedication of the medical and supporting staff from the program. I will always be proud to say I graduated from Henry Ford Internal Medicine program.

It's one thing to accept patients from other hospitals as a tertiary referral center. But if what the original poster is saying about it being against the rules to *call for a signout* from the residents at that hospital is true, that's pretty crappy. can you comment on this?

 

[MediDoc1]

It's one thing to accept patients from other hospitals as a tertiary referral center. But if what the original poster is saying about it being against the rules to *call for a signout* from the residents at that hospital is true, that's pretty crappy. can you comment on this?

It is not against the rules. I called several times to outside hospitals for a signout, and I never got into trouble or anyone told me I could not do it. I had to invest some time in finding a physician who knew the patient at the other hospital, and some people did not want to do that as the patient was already accepted and there is nothing you can do about it. But just because you have no say on a patient being admitted does not mean you cant ask for further information from the referring hospital.

 

[md_2016]

A few points I would like to make. Firstly, all of what he said is true, ON PAPER, but not in reality. All of those 'official policies' he mentioned are just for show to lure future residents into ranking this program high. Also, please note that

1. This person is NOT a resident. I guarantee you that he/she is someone from program administration etc.

2. Notice how this person didn't even talk about the ATMO issue?

3. Residents carry on an average of 7-8 patients per day. This does NOT include the number of admission they can get when they are on call which can be another 7-14 depending on the duration of call. Also keep in mind that each resident needs 4 days off per month which means someone is almost always off which increases the average number of patient carried. I personally have crossed the cap several times with the chief residents telling me "well its a SOFT cap, if you have 5 not so sick patients, they don't really count"

4. Sure they have money allocated for travel BUT, the way they make their residents work, not many residents ever get to use that money as they are working like dogs all year long.

5. ICU cap is 18 patients not 16, again pointing towards the fact that this person is not a recent grad from HF. Also, I would like to mention that each team is capped ALL THE TIME. There isn't a single day when the team is not capped. Another lie by this person is that ICU team has 5 residents. It does NOT. Each team has 3-4 residents one of which is always post-call.

6. Notice how he didn't even mention why residents can't split admissions with the hospitalist teams?

7. Notice how he didn't even comment on why Henry Ford residents are not allowed to call the outside hospital transferring physicians to get pertinent information about the patient (that can literally save their lives in many instances)?

8. Notice how he didn't comment on the total lack of continuity in the continuity clinic?

I'm a recent graduate from Henry Ford, and reading all these negative remarks about my residency program is very hurtful, since it is untrue. I think the person who wrote these comments has a lot of pent up frustration because he was expecting a "cush" life and didn't realize that an internal medicine residency at a tertiary care hospital would not be a 9-5 Monday to Friday kind of job. I felt extremely comfortable managing even complicated patients after completing my residency, and even my attendings at my fellowship program have complimented by abilities and knowledge, and I owe it my training at Henry Ford. We literally managed all sorts of cases from the bread and butter, to zebras, and to supplement our patient care experiences, we had very well organized didactics everyday. We had an appropriate balance of autonomy and supervision on the floors and ICUs. All our work was educational, and not "service". Notice that the person above has mentioned that we cap, but we never exceed the cap. The cap was implemented as such by the ACGME, because that is what was felt to be appropriate for good quality training.

In comparison, a lot of other programs are either not busy or "cush", as this person clearly wanted his program to be, and there each resident carries 1 patient, and they admit 1-2 patients on night float (I'm not making this up; I have worked with residents from other hospitals who come to Ford for an ICU rotation, in order to get an actual ICU experience). On the other extreme, there are also some programs, where the residents are extremely busy, but with work that's really service, and not educational; such as residents on floors who are also supposed to be the MOD , wherein you're basically running all over the hospital like a rapid response nurse.

With regards to autonomy as well, in certain programs, the residents have to call the attending before making any decision at all. As senior residents, we felt comfortable making most decisions on our own, and we were not only allowed to, but encouraged to do that. In the ICUs, we always had fellows, who also gave us an appropriate amount of guidance and autonomy.

A lot of programs have didactics that are poorly structured, with lectures getting cancelled frequently, and/or mostly resident or chief resident run. Our noon conferences happened everyday, and were given by attendings (including subspecialists). We also had a board review spanning over the last few months of 3rd year. Not many programs have that.

I would also like to clarify the ATMO issue, since this person is so hung up on it, like his entire residency was ruined because of this. ATMO at most hospitals (or whatever name they go by at other places) is basically a bunch of nurses whose job is to facilitate transfers and manage beds. Their job is not to triage or do an H&P, that is the physician's job. I agree that they hardly ever knew much more than the primary diagnosis and the last set of vitals. I almost always called the transferring physician at the outside hospital to get the entire story. There was no rule stating that you were not allowed to do so, you just had to take out the time. At times, they did transfer patients who were too sick for the floors, which is why it was the resident's duty to talk to the transferring physician, or at the very least examine the patient as soon as they got to the floor and triage them.

All programs have their pros and cons, and there will be some issues, like occasional kinks with scheduling in every program (not to mention, also later when you get an actual job). I just wanted to clarify some of these myths floating around, and hopefully put an end to this Henry Ford bashing session. None of the issues at Ford are deal breakers. As a residency program, it is definitely one of the better ones, and if I had to, I would choose it again.

 

[JamaicanHerb]

All these one posts claiming to be recent grads, got to be true.

 

[rankingforthematch]

is this still accurate?

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Lol all the henry ford faculties and chief residents coming out and shilling it seems like.

 

[DoubleBogey]

Didn’t go to HF, but the clinic experience mentioned in the first post is probably what most residencies experience. Our clinic in residency I felt was a nice option for the “post hospital f/up” used as stop-gap for pts discharged. No show determination was based on the attending’s preference. We didn’t have the flr or icu call structure that was described in the initial post - sounds brutal really.

ACGME has rules that regulate the number of “touches” interns and residents can have in a 24hr period. I would suggest any intern/resident become familiar with these rules as out program had to modify our nighttime admissions for medicine/cards/hepatology/heme/onc/pulm. The current healthcare system has high turnover, but I always felt the more “touches” one has the better the training/experience was. Also, those hospitalist getting paid a lower than average salary was because they were not seeing as much/doing as many admissions.

Hospitalist at academic centers in general get paid less hand average and usually have less support and are treated like a resident - getting push back from c/s services, having to follow up and put in the rec orders (not the case in community settings).

 

[Trogghunter]

You only do 4 months of ICU? What!?!? I did 6 at a quaternary medical center with an ICU bigger than most hospitals. That sounds like a pretty easy residency program. You should've gone into derm. Jk. I know HF is difficult, but 4 months? Come on.

 

[soop]

You only do 4 months of ICU? What!?!? I did 6 at a quaternary medical center with an ICU bigger than most hospitals. That sounds like a pretty easy residency program. You should've gone into derm. Jk. I know HF is difficult, but 4 months? Come on.

Uh congratulations? Your experience doesn’t invalidate others’ experiences.

 

[DBV]

You only do 4 months of ICU? What!?!? I did 6 at a quaternary medical center with an ICU bigger than most hospitals. That sounds like a pretty easy residency program. You should've gone into derm. Jk. I know HF is difficult, but 4 months? Come on.

Wow 6 whole months???

That's incredible! How do you manage to zip your pants with a d*ck that big??

 

[IMreshopeful]

You only do 4 months of ICU? What!?!? I did 6 at a quaternary medical center with an ICU bigger than most hospitals. That sounds like a pretty easy residency program. You should've gone into derm. Jk. I know HF is difficult, but 4 months? Come on.

I also did about 7-8 months of “ICU” time at my medical residency (including CCU). That does not mean it’s some sort of badge of honor.

 

[NghtSky04]

It's a bit ironic. All these posts from "former residents" arguing against the OP's point makes me believe his complaints even more.

 

[CatFactorial]

I also did about 7-8 months of “ICU” time at my medical residency (including CCU). That does not mean it’s some sort of badge of honor.

It is not? So THATS why I keep striking out with teh wimmenz

 

[sacksfan2011]

Yeah alot of this is BS..... source current prelim at Henry Ford, loving it

Its by far not cush at all.. if thats what you want dont come here, but im happy with the environment so far (dont know about ICU first hand, but despite the 30hr calls on some months , residents seem ok with it)

Ill reply to each point later, but yeah, interns never cap at 10 (except when doing notes while covering a weekend) we usually ride around 4-6.

There are literally designated call rooms for each covering team, but lets be honest you will be busy and will not need them that much.

the "30 hour" really more like 26-27hrs call on the floors is only 1-2 times per month, and its there so that night float can get two days off a week

Research: The categoricals literally have an entire research month as either their first or second month where they are paired up with a mentor and get going with a project, they have some biostat and research study design classes and stuff for a whole month. Its not a bench research place where you can pop to the lab to stir your stem cells after rounds like MGH, but there are more clinical studies going on here than bodies to do them, the publication rate is really good, and fellowship match reflects that.

Ok yeah ATMO is not gonna do our work for us, there is nothing stopping you from calling to find out stuff about new admits . But the main main mainnnnnnnn benefit of ATMO is one of the things that makes this program so strong. ATMO helps us divide our teams into sub-specialty floors. Where else will, by the time you finish PGY-1 have rounded on cards, nephro, heam-onc, pulm, id etc patients with respective sub-specialists as attendings? I knew I wasn't gonna get another chance at these when I go off to my advanced spot , and I don't regret the exposure.

Lack of appreciation: Ok i know i said i wasn't gonna get into every point, but this is the worst part . I don't know how it used to be , but our PD is a real gem (hes new , started last year), he literally knows everyone's name where we are from, is available and approachable. One of the sweetest and most caring people I have met. He hosted a World cup viewing party today. The hospital literally had a "resident appreciation" day last week where they gave us free ice cream, plus the program has baller food at noon conference pad thai , shwarma, indian buffett etc, and you get a hefty amount of $ on your badge which you can use at any cafeteria in the hospital, free parking, moonlighting opportunities, extra days off for fellowship interviews as a third year, personal days in addition to like 4 weeks of vacation, even dirt cheap good apartments on campus, what more do you want?

Ill probably write a full review at some point, i have no problem if anyone calls me out, by my first hand experience this place has changed.

 

[Crayola227]

um so are you saying you completed the whole prelim year?

otherwise you're talking about a month in the program, and selling us the main selling points a program is going to give anyway interview day

 

[W19]

I can attest to what @sacksfan2011 is saying. He/she is 100% correct.

HF is good mid tier program that is also very IMG/FMG friendly...

 

[sacksfan2011]

um so are you saying you completed the whole prelim year?

otherwise you're talking about a month in the program, and selling us the main selling points a program is going to give anyway interview day

Yep just a month in, but i do know much more than what I knew on the interview day.. being on the floors, rounding and being on call a few times, attending morning report and noon conference and going to picnics and gatherings with faculty and seniors outside of the hospital has given me some perspective

Ive done aways at some fancy/top 10 places and honestly except for lack of bench research and the "name brand" i really dont feel like im missing out (granted i haven't graduated, but seen more than enough to know the review at the top is blatantly false or no longer true)

If anyone (not picking you out buddy, just trying to make a point, im sure your a good guy/girl) wants to be typical SDN butthurt becoz some non top 10 program is actually good and not some post apocalyptic wasteland then so be it.

To any M4s thinking about where to apply: yes shoot for big name programs, but a lot of mid tier places are great and will get you the same training.

Edit: Ill just say i feel supported and taken care of , even as a prelim, and am happy to go to work in the morning (even if a bit tired), i just felt bad seeing this review that's all.

All through interview season people said go where you feel like you will fit in, and I do feel like that here, there is no way to know if you will or wont by just the interview day, so im telling you this is a good group of people here. Im not gonna sell it as a secret top 10 .. the next MGH, cuz ok its not an ivy league place, but Im happy here and it shouldn't be slandered like that

Dont apply if you dont want to, but just know that this is a really good program, hard working but with good exposure and a good environment, if I was doing IM (which i almost did) I would be happy here

 

[Crayola227]

Yep just a month in, but i do know much more than what I knew on the interview day.. being on the floors, rounding and being on call a few times, attending morning report and noon conference and going to picnics and gatherings with faculty and seniors outside of the hospital has given me some perspective

Ive done aways at some fancy/top 10 places and honestly except for lack of bench research and the "name brand" i really dont feel like im missing out (granted i haven't graduated, but seen more than enough to know the review at the top is blatantly false or no longer true)

If anyone (not picking you out buddy, just trying to make a point, im sure your a good guy/girl) wants to be typical SDN butthurt becoz some non top 10 program is actually good and not some post apocalyptic wasteland then so be it.

To any M4s thinking about where to apply: yes shoot for big name programs, but a lot of mid tier places are great and will get you the same training.

Edit: Ill just say i feel supported and taken care of , even as a prelim, and am happy to go to work in the morning (even if a bit tired), i just felt bad seeing this review that's all.

All through interview season people said go where you feel like you will fit in, and I do feel like that here, there is no way to know if you will or wont by just the interview day, so im telling you this is a good group of people here. Im not gonna sell it as a secret top 10 .. the next MGH, cuz ok its not an ivy league place, but Im happy here and it shouldn't be slandered like that

Dont apply if you dont want to, but just know that this is a really good program, hard working but with good exposure and a good environment, if I was doing IM (which i almost did) I would be happy here

Nah, I'm known for NGAF about prestige - I just wrote on essay on it in allo.

What you might have caught, was me asking you just how much experience you had in the program, to put your review into perspective. I think that's more than a fair question for any reviewer.

Especially when you didn't say, and the TITLE of the thread implies reviews from people with more than a month

 

[Crayola227]

Believe me, being a senior resident is an entirely different ballgame, and each year is, in fact. The perspective you'll have this coming June and the one after that, could be so dramatically different from your one month in.

Where you will be in 3 years is so much more relevant to applicants considering this place to train them for the rest of their careers.

I'm sorry if you don't feel like I'm valuing your one month intern perspective on your program as much as you think I should. As they say... what you don't know, you don't know.

I'm glad you're liking your program so far. I hope it continues to be such a positive experience. Thank you for providing more info on the program and its start than was available to med students before you wrote.

 

[sacksfan2011]

Believe me, being a senior resident is an entirely different ballgame, and each year is, in fact. The perspective you'll have this coming June and the one after that, could be so dramatically different from your one month in.

Where you will be in 3 years is so much more relevant to applicants considering this place to train them for the rest of their careers.

I'm sorry if you don't feel like I'm valuing your one month intern perspective on your program as much as you think I should. As they say... what you don't know, you don't know.

I'm glad you're liking your program so far. I hope it continues to be such a positive experience. Thank you for providing more info on the program and its start than was available to med students before you wrote.

Thanks... maybe SDN is starting to change from hypertonic to normal saline and I should trying commenting more