Here's tomorrow's case:

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

coprolalia

Bored Certified
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
3,084
Reaction score
19
Points
4,626
Location
Paradise
  1. Attending Physician
87 y.o. female for CABGx3 plus AVR, 67 kg, baseline creatinine 2.5, s/p colorectal CA 10 yrs. ago plus resection and chemo/XRT. Dyspnea on minimal exertion. Recent upper extremity infection (resolved). Aortic valve is approximately 0.7 cm. Severely diseased RCA, LAD and circumflex (> 80% stenosed in all three vessels with high lesions). B/L carotid stenosis. Starting H/H is 11.2/35.4.

😱

How would you do this case? Would you do this case?

-copro
 
coming off pump should be fun. Ventricle is likely to have crap compliance. It'll depend how her prepump cardiac function ( left and right) is also. probably gonna need at NTG, DA in line +/- epi and milrinone. if her ventricular function in really crappy and doesnt improve with drips may need IABP although its probably not likely. Her biggest risks after that are gonna be post op renal function and neuro function (she probably has some decent plaques in her aorta too in addition to those carotids). aside from that awake a line, induce in whatever standard manner you do these at your place (I personally like versed +/- etomidate +/- ketamine or you could do etomidate or narcotic or any combination of the above that you prefer). After that cordis/PA cath. TEE. usual AS considerations keep HR reasonable (not too high, not too low), sinus rhythm, maintain SVR. get her to pump and cross your fingers that the kidneys dont shut down. I would get her off pump with epi and DA. Use NTG to give pump volume back as tolerated.
 
have fun commen off pump for that one!

Agreed....but I'm still amazed at how easy these critically ill patients separate from bypass sometimes.

Today did a redo CABG whose LAD graft was totally occluded, and the three other grafts had multiple stenoses.

Had crushing chest pain onset this AM refractory to nitrates & ST elevation inferolaterally...hence the Sunday CABG.

83 years old.

IABP placed b4 surgery.

A line, big peripheral IV, subclav TLC. No SWAN.

Separated from bypass easily after a 90 minute pump run with low dose epi being the sole drip coming off.

Only problem during the case came when the arterial cannula apparently wasnt clamped appropriately to the bypass line....separated shortly after going on bypass, giving everyone a blood shower. 😱 Had to shut the pump off and surgeon quickly rectified the problem. Couldve been a disaster but it wasnt.

Deft surgeon, which makes all the difference in the world on a critically ill-complex case like this one.

We do complex cases like the one presented by IP day in and day out.
 
Keep your mean pressures at her baseline when on pump. Come off on vasopressin and milrinone.

Watch out for the crunchies in the aorta if you put in a balloon pump. In this patient, likely it will lead to a lot of distal emboli, but you gotta do what you gotta do.
 
Keep your mean pressures at her baseline when on pump. Come off on vasopressin and milrinone.

Watch out for the crunchies in the aorta if you put in a balloon pump. In this patient, likely it will lead to a lot of distal emboli, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Love the Vaso/Milrinone combo. Usually come off with those and low-dose EPI in patients with low EF or long pump run. Agree with caution using IABP. Encourage surgeons to do epiaortic US if lots of nasties in the aorta.

As above, I induce usually with a 2-4mg of midaz, approx 10mcg/kg fentanyl, 1 mcg/kg lidocaine, and a little etomidate to make up the difference. If lots of AI and slow rate might use panc, otherwise usually vec.

Treat impending hypotension early! With her age and size will likely need to transfuse more than once and should look out for coagulopathy.

Who would use Aprotinin??? I probably wouldn't.
 
Okay, here's what we did:

18g peripheral plus left-radial a-line in the pre-op area. Just a scosh of midazolam. Took her to the OR, and tried to put in a right IJ introducer, but couldn't get it (got the damn flash from the finder, but couldn't get the big needle to hit the spot, ended-up with a hematoma, and the surgeons put a right subclavian in). All of this was done awake. We floated the Swan pre-induction (just a RBBB) and were getting pressures early. Then, off to sleep with about 500mcg total of fentanyl, etomidate, and breathing her down with iso. Tube went in easy with no hemodynamic changes.

We didn't use Aprotinin because of her kidneys. We used Amicar instead, bolused 80mg/kg then 30mg/kg/hr infusion for the whole case. They cut down the sternum with minimal pressors and dissected off the LIMA. I had to touch her up with a little phenylephrine here and there, but her PAS/PAD never got above 40's/20's. The TEE went in without a problem, and cards came to do the read.

I gave her 21,000 units of heparin, they cannulated, and we went on pump without much problem. Total pump time was a little over 3 hours, with cross-clamp time about 2hrs, 10mins.

Coming off-pump was a bitch.

I checked a sugar and it was in the 290's (baseline was 90-something), so I bolused her with insulin and started a drip. As they started weaning her, I couldn't maintain good pressures. The perfusionist had given her 4 units PRBCs before hemoconcentration, and we ended-up giving her another three before they closed. She also got platelets, FFP, and 500 of albumin. Still crap pressures with the PA pressures now climbing into the 50's, although she was putting out a lot of clear urine. My attending wanted to give some Lasix, so we did. We ran Levophed, dopa, and nitro during the coming-off period. They A/V paced her. By the end of the case, she was maintaing good UOP with SBP in the 120's and PA pressures in the low 40's again. Problem was, she was dumping too much blood out of the mediastinal tube. We took her tubed to the cardiac ICU. So, I got her through it, but it looks like she's going to be a bring-back later tonight.

I like the vaso/milrinone combo. That might have helped with squeezing her beans as well as inotropy. Didn't try that, although we had it there. I don't have enough experience yet with these cases to "step up" and recommend anything different than what my attending wanted to do. Her main problem, I think was volume and a slow bleed from somewhere in her heart. This particular CT surgeon is known to have a higher bring-back rate than some of the others. I'll post-op her tomorrow and figure out things turned out.

I felt bad for this lady. She told me in the pre-op area that she felt she was too old to be having this surgery. I guess this is one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't cases and she was convinced to proceed. I just hope now she actually makes it out of the hospital. She was a total sweetheart.

Great case. Thanks for the discussion!

copro
 
Love the Vaso/Milrinone combo. Usually come off with those and low-dose EPI in patients with low EF or long pump run. Agree with caution using IABP. Encourage surgeons to do epiaortic US if lots of nasties in the aorta.

As above, I induce usually with a 2-4mg of midaz, approx 10mcg/kg fentanyl, 1 mcg/kg lidocaine, and a little etomidate to make up the difference. If lots of AI and slow rate might use panc, otherwise usually vec.

Treat impending hypotension early! With her age and size will likely need to transfuse more than once and should look out for coagulopathy.

Who would use Aprotinin??? I probably wouldn't.

Nice post. I agree with the vaso/mil as well. My only difference is I don't give etomidate. I'll add some very low dose propofol if I need something extra.
 
The surgeon didnt want one, which was fine with me.

Actually considering the SWAN studys, maybe the more appropriate question is why?


This is probably true. I only ask because my experience (which is very limited indeed) is that at the two academic centers and one private center that I am familiar with, they all routinely float it.

At the private place, they double stick the IJ, I think for more billing dollars.
 
Top Bottom