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WVUPharm2007

imagine sisyphus happy
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I need a car for the Winter. I have to drive 35 minutes down a country road to get to my job and when the snow hits, it will be balls.

I'm looking for an AWD sedan that laughs at snow and ice. Ideally year 2003+, under 80k miles, wanting to spend $10k-14k.

Whatcha got for me?
 
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I need a car for the Winter. I have to drive 35 minutes down a country road to get to my job and when the snow hits, it will be balls.

I'm looking for an AWD sedan that laughs at snow and ice. Ideally year 2003+, under 80k miles, wanting to spend $10k-14k.

Whatcha got for me?

Subaru impreza sedan would probably be your best overall value to get you around in snowy/icy conditions. SUbarus are great reliable little cars, just make sure to service them regularly, because of the horizontal engine design, blown head gaskets can be an issue if the vehicle fluids are not changed regularly.
You could also hunt for a good deal on a Volvo s60 awd. The turbo model is a fast little sedan and they do well during the winter, nice car overall too as far as styling goes.
I do not know much about VW Passat, but they make an awd sedan. Another car you could probably find a good deal on.

I have had great luck with my Subaru Outback and gets me up snowing icy roads to the mountain without breaking a sweat all winter long, I speed by all the SUVs.
I really like the volvo s60s though, good looking/fast sedan.
 
I've been happy with my Honda Element. Not a sedan, but handles quite well in the snow.
 
It sounds like you're describing a subaru perfectly, I can't really think of another car that fits what you want.
 
Get you a Subaru dood. Don't you know these things?
 
I have envisioned my life in small town new england...running a small hospital pharmacy living on 20 acre lot. This thought always includes a couple of Subys parked in a garage.
 
I need a car for the Winter. I have to drive 35 minutes down a country road to get to my job and when the snow hits, it will be balls.

I'm looking for an AWD sedan that laughs at snow and ice. Ideally year 2003+, under 80k miles, wanting to spend $10k-14k.

Whatcha got for me?

Subaru Legacy or Impreza.

One of my good friends and I used to go up to the snow all the time and his car never got stuck....although he was very smart about where he could and couldn't go.

I would just go for a 4WD truck...since they are a dime a dozen right now.
 
More videos...

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAHPMUkhj5Q&NR=1[/YOUTUBE]Check out the comments below the video. Some people are claiming that this test was promoted by Audi.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1Mj0wgCcio[/YOUTUBE]Volvo video.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wzr-6fMuts&NR=1[/YOUTUBE]
Kudos to anyone who knows what kind of car this is.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSGtl6qNDs&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]This video reminds me of Germany. My German friends loved "hip-hop".
They didn't drink and drive though. 👎

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhxzZJLNRrA&NR=1[/YOUTUBE]

There are so many other Subaru videos on Youtube, but I can't post them. The rap music might hurt the kiddies' ears...
 
I would give a couple fingers or toes for a WRX. Plus I'm a station wagon nerd.
 
you could always go AMC Eagle. It's not very new, but it can be fun depending on what you do with it.

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83.amc.eagle.500.jpg
 
I need a car for the Winter. I have to drive 35 minutes down a country road to get to my job and when the snow hits, it will be balls.

I'm looking for an AWD sedan that laughs at snow and ice. Ideally year 2003+, under 80k miles, wanting to spend $10k-14k.

Whatcha got for me?

As has already been said, a Scoobaroo fits pretty well

You could probably pick up an Audi A4 for that amount if you wanted some more luxury.

They also make AWD G35 sedans...but those are grotesque in my opinion

I say screw it, grab a motorcycle and put chains on the tires...be a man
 
Like everyone else has said, grab a Subie.

Honda CRV. 😀
👍 I think so too. Did you backtrack to the website? I didn't have time to do that this morning. I was being a sleepyhead. 😴 [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GWPOPSXGYI[/youtube]
 
I would die before I buy Jap car you American-trade-deficit-to-Asia-enlarging mofos.

As such I did some independent research at work.

I think I like the Jaguar X Type...as Jag is owned by Ford. You can get an '04 or '05 with decent mileage for around $11-15k. The Ford Five-Hundred/Murcury Montego seemed decent, too.
 
I thought you were an American car loyalist. That would explain the Taurus and the Buick that caught on fire. :idea:

Ford owns Volvo, but you saw the test videos that were posted, I hope.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfL3egQ61bU[/youtube]
Jaguar commercial


Top Gear episode video
 
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👍 I think so too. Did you backtrack to the website? I didn't have time to do that this morning. I was being a sleepyhead. 😴
heh, nope. I just recognized it. It was pretty bad that it was the first car I thought of when I saw just the side. The profile only confirmed it. :laugh:
 
I would die before I buy Jap car you American-trade-deficit-to-Asia-enlarging mofos.

As such I did some independent research at work.

I think I like the Jaguar X Type...as Jag is owned by Ford. You can get an '04 or '05 with decent mileage for around $11-15k. The Ford Five-Hundred/Murcury Montego seemed decent, too.

Trade deficit, big deal.. Asia needs $ reserve to buy oil.... we print dollars, they give us goods for $....

If you're buying a used car, what difference does it make who made the car... Suby has already made money on it and you buying it doesn't really contribute to the Suby fund if anything make sure the lien on the car is held by an American financial institution... they could sure use your help.

Well, I'm glad you're a proud American who wants to support Union scums.
I'm so glad you don't have any Japanese electronics made in China... could be a challenge though.. a lot of electronic goodies are Japanese and Korean....yeah and the cell phones too. Which cell phone is non asian made? Motorolla?

Wait, Jag is owned by an Indian company... Indians are Asian aren't they? No Jag for you dood. Wait...what does it matter if you buy used. You could buy a used Jag produced during American ownership era.. even though buying it doesn't really contribute to the Ford foundation, it's the idea of supporting the US.

:meanie:
 
racist, and grammatically incorrect.

That's not racist, it's nationalist. And I forgot to put "a" in there, whoopity do. Jap is short for Japanese. Should the Anglos out there be pissed off if I called an Audi a "Euro" car? If you are offended, I apologize...but lighten up...I'm not even trying to be offensive.
 
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Trade deficit, big deal.. Asia needs $ reserve to buy oil.... we print dollars, they give us goods for $....

Yeah, and the strength of the dollar is weaning and it's value as a fiat currency is decreasing. With the Euro and Ruble becoming more stable over the last decade, many OPEC countries are considering selling oil in competing fiats. HENCE, we must keep the dollar strong...and nobody cares. And Asians you speak of are trying to slowly dump dollars. The Yuan isn't pegged to the dollar anymore and the wealthier Chinese aren't saving cash in dollars anymore. Hence the value of the dollar has decreased greatly since the late 90s, early 00s.

If you're buying a used car, what difference does it make who made the car... Suby has already made money on it and you buying it doesn't really contribute to the Suby fund if anything make sure the lien on the car is held by an American financial institution... they could sure use your help.

It's the concept, really. That and I just hate foreign cars from an aesthetic standpoint, too...

Well, I'm glad you're a proud American who wants to support Union scums.

Hey, that's just capitalism, baby. Don't get pissed off because the workers decided to bond together and offer themselves up as a marketable good. That's just smart ass business...

I'm so glad you don't have any Japanese electronics made in China... could be a challenge though.. a lot of electronic goodies are Japanese and Korean....yeah and the cell phones too. Which cell phone is non asian made? Motorolla?

Yup...sad, no? American production has dwindled resulting in wealth stratification as American and international businesses prey off of third world labor.

Wait, Jag is owned by an Indian company... Indians are Asian aren't they? No Jag for you dood. Wait...what does it matter if you buy used. You could buy a used Jag produced during American ownership era.. even though buying it doesn't really contribute to the Ford foundation, it's the idea of supporting the US.

:meanie:

Yeah, that's the idea, mainly. I just dislike foreign cars for a multitude of reasons. I kinda like the Volvo AWD, too...
 
Ha, that's what you think, when the X-type was made, it was a Ford Mondeo with a Jag badges. Why do I care who owns it now? There's an American car underneath all of that dainty British stuff...
I know. 😉 I just like being difficult.

BTW the Ford Five Hundred is available with AWD. You might be able to find a used one in your range
 
I know. 😉 I just like being difficult.

BTW the Ford Five Hundred is available with AWD. You might be able to find a used one in your range

I've been lookin' at those, too. I like them. The Jag X-types from '04 or '04 are actually CHEAPER. WTF? I don't get it....the reviews are good....it's a Jag...wtf?
 
While we're on the topic of business new and used, I don't buy new leather goods. As most of you know, I'm vegetarian (pretty flexible now as opposed to a year ago). Instead, I'll buy used, secondhand leather products, because leather usually holds up better the second time around that it's sold. (Although, my 'new' secondhand leather sandals broke in August, and I busted my butt at a party because they broke, so I may have to get a little more picky or switch back to synthetic only.)

Does secondhand leather make me a hypocrite? No. I don't think so. I think that whenever I buy non-leather products from retailers, I show what I support. If I buy secondhand leather, I will not be supporting the leather producing company so long as no one can tell what type of shoes they are while they're being worn (the secondhand store gets my dollar, not the new leather shoe retailer).
Now, I wouldn't buy a 100% cotton shirt that says "Leather" on the front of it, even though it's completely cotton, because then I would be advertising what I don't support, because the shirt obviously says "Leather" on it.

People refer to some of my non-leather stuff as leather all the type, so the look of the product is pretty irrelevant.

Cars on the other hand... Everybody knows what kind of car WVU will be driving, because cars have their own logos. If WVU buys a 2004 Jaguar X-type, then he will be driving a British car made by Ford. The situation starts to get sticky whenever ignorant people look at his car and think that he's driving a foreign car company's offspring. I don't think that should matter though, because ignorant people are everywhere, and they will think what they want about him regardless of what he thinks he is portraying.

Therefore, WVU, go with what your principles are. If you want to drive American-owned cars, get a used Jaguar or whatever else you can find that's American-owned. Shoot! Go with the Ford 500- there's no doubt who made that (I think! 😉).
 
Does secondhand leather make me a hypocrite? No. I don't think so. I think that whenever I buy non-leather products from retailers, I show what I support. If I buy secondhand leather, I will not be supporting the leather producing company so long as no one can tell what type of shoes they are while they're being worn (the secondhand store gets my dollar, not the new leather shoe retailer).

It increases its resale value...which increases how attractive it is to consumers. If I buy a foreign car, it will thus increase demand for used models, which will thus increase the long term value of said car, which then becomes a sticking point for foreign cars. It's a huge thing. It's why many people don't like Tauruses (or is that Tauri?) They are one of the most reliable cars in the history of automobiles with consistantly high safety ratings. I'm over 160,000 on the older one. But the resale value on them is terrible....which decreases the demand for new ones...and the cycle continues.
 
Is it possible for you to buy a brand-new Ford? You usually run your cars until they have no choice but to be decommissioned, so a new car for you will get its money's worth.
 
Is it possible for you to buy a brand-new Ford? You usually run your cars until they have no choice but to be decommissioned, so a new car for you will get its money's worth.

Nah, 2-3 years is the sweet spot for reliability vs. price. I considered it though. I dig the new Taurus. I think I might just go with the Jag though. The fact that it will be sitting in my trailer parking space is reason enough...lol...
 
I'm in NW PA, in the sticks (rust belt, ya), needed to drive 2h one-way to P'burg to get to class, got a Honda CRV (2003, AWD) w/studs for winter (studs legal here Nov-Apr), took off at 5 am, often the only way I knew I was on a road was that I was driving between power lines, often made it off 28 before the plows even got on (ah....Sundays), no problem. Passed a few cars flipped over on my way. It's not an American car, but it was great. This winter I plan on getting chains. I've seen many old cars of different makes tear through snow/ice no problem with chains here, and in rural PA, nobody bugs you or pulls you over if you have chains on.
 
Yeah, and the strength of the dollar is weaning and it's value as a fiat currency is decreasing. With the Euro and Ruble becoming more stable over the last decade, many OPEC countries are considering selling oil in competing fiats. HENCE, we must keep the dollar strong...and nobody cares. And Asians you speak of are trying to slowly dump dollars. The Yuan isn't pegged to the dollar anymore and the wealthier Chinese aren't saving cash in dollars anymore. Hence the value of the dollar has decreased greatly since the late 90s, early 00s.

dude..that's because Euro emerged and Saddam tried to sell his oil in euros. Why don't you go shoot Hugo Chavez...he wants to price oil in euro denomination. Well, I guess since you're a big nationalist, you don't buy gas because it's imported from countries who's contributing to the decline of the dolllar. Right? So what do you do... make biodiesel in your backyard? You go boy.


Hey, that's just capitalism, baby. Don't get pissed off because the workers decided to bond together and offer themselves up as a marketable good. That's just smart ass business...

I'm not pissed. But you should be. Those people who you think is practicing smart ass business have contributed to the downfall of the US auto industry..to the brink of bankrupcy. But you as a nationalist, who are you going to support, the union or the manufacturer? Support the union long enough, you won't have a choice but to buy an import vehicle! What you gonna do smart boy?


Yup...sad, no? American production has dwindled resulting in wealth stratification as American and international businesses prey off of third world labor.

So, tell us. Didn't you buy a plasma TV while back? What brand and where was it made?
 
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And Mikey.. I will help you if want. But when are you going to petition your P&T to change prophylactic antibiotic used in your hospital from Cefazolin to something else? After all, cefazolin was invented by this little herbal company in Japan.. Fujisawa!😱

Go American!

:meanie:
 
dude..that's because Euro emerged and Saddam tried to sell his oil in euros. Why don't you go shoot Hugo Chavez...he wants to price oil in euro denomination. Well, I guess since you're a big nationalist, you don't buy gas because it's imported from countries who's contributing to the decline of the dolllar. Right? So what do you do... make biodiesel in your backyard? You go boy.
You can blame GM for this country's dependence on foreign oil. They, along with Chevron, have stock in the company that owns the patent for the batteries needed in electric cars, and that battery company is not producing the batteries!

The EV1 was introduced in the late nineties; it was a 100% electric car. The car was never for sale, but GM leased the cars out to a few hundred people. You can check out the documentary Who Killed The Electric Car?[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcdhAFC7SjI[/YOUTUBE]movie trailer
 
dude..that's because Euro emerged and Saddam tried to sell his oil in euros.

Those are two very minor reasons for the decline of the dollar. VERY minor. Iraq isn't selling oil in Euros right now, anyway. The Ruble is actually now a bigger threat than the Euro. This isn't 2002, playa. Read up on your econ journals. The dollar is on the decline with negative momentum and something needs to be done before its hegemony as the de facto international fiat currency is challenged. Why the hell do you think Putin tried to invade Georgia? huge ass oil pipelines. He's a chessmaster...he knows what will bring Mother Russia back to her "rightful" place on top of the world. The same thing that fueled their economic expansion; control of natural resources. There is a dude almost as rich as Bill Gates over there just off of selling aluminum. Now they want a piece of the big daddy...oil.

Why don't you go shoot Hugo Chavez...he wants to price oil in euro denomination.

Yeah, I'll jus' go grab my shotty right now. 🙄 Hugo Chavez is just a politician that likes to **** with the US because he can and it makes him popular to do so.


Well, I guess since you're a big nationalist, you don't buy gas because it's imported from countries who's contributing to the decline of the dolllar. Right? So what do you do... make biodiesel in your backyard? You go boy.

Actually those countries are helping to STRENGTHEN the dollar as they all help perpetuate the petrodollar by pegging their product to one currency that everyone else has to use. The reason everyone wants alternative fuel is because the writing is on the wall. The dollar may very well have had its day and we need an insurance policy when Mr oil sheik in Kuwait wants him some rubles for that barrel of petrol.




I'm not pissed. But you should be. Those people who you think is practicing smart ass business have contributed to the downfall of the US auto industry..to the brink of bankrupcy. But you as a nationalist, who are you going to support, the union or the manufacturer? Support the union long enough, you won't have a choice but to buy an import vehicle! What you gonna do smart boy?

At best that's just a chicken vs. egg argument. The solution is to only trade with countries that institute some sort of minimum wage law so that American labor can compete with them. We have all of the power right now, may as well use it. Do you honestly think the decline of American industry is due to to unions? Don't be so naive, the industrialists would be exploiting third world labor for $0.25/hour no matter what. Do you think American workers should all be paid $3/hour so they can compete with the int'l market?

The US can't MAKE anything anymore. People are paid more to DO things than to MAKE things. Hence, the service industry economy has emerged...which may or may not be able to sustain itself. Even the service jobs that don't require a human physically being in this country have all been "outsourced." But that's what is running this country. Intrinsically worthless currency supported internationally SOLELY due to its position as a fiat and jobs that perpetuate poor trading deficits. It's a vicious cycle that slowly bleeds the US out. The second all of them dollars on the free market become worthless, we're so screwed it ain't funny.

And of course both candidates for president are ******s that don't understand this...*sigh*...


So, tell us. Didn't you buy a plasma TV while back? What brand and where was it made?

The first was a Vizio; which is an American company in California, assembly in the US, parts from multiple countries. The second was an Olevia, owned by Syntax-Brillian out of Arizona. Same deal, assembly in the US, parts from multiple countries.

But nobody MAKES anything in the US anymore, so what the hell do you expect me to do? Assembly in the US is the best you can do.
 
And Mikey.. I will help you if want. But when are you going to petition your P&T to change prophylactic antibiotic used in your hospital from Cefazolin to something else? After all, cefazolin was invented by this little herbal company in Japan.. Fujisawa!😱

Go American!

:meanie:

...and the generic isn't. Plus, medical decisions shouldn't be affected by such things, anyway. Patient care is above macroeconomics. People are more important than that.
 
Those are two very minor reasons for the decline of the dollar. VERY minor. Iraq isn't selling oil in Euros right now, anyway. The Ruble is actually now a bigger threat than the Euro. This isn't 2002, playa. Read up on your econ journals. The dollar is on the decline with negative momentum and something needs to be done before its hegemony as the de facto international fiat currency is challenged. Why the hell do you think Putin tried to invade Georgia? huge ass oil pipelines. He's a chessmaster...he knows what will bring Mother Russia back to her "rightful" place on top of the world. The same thing that fueled their economic expansion; control of natural resources. There is a dude almost as rich as Bill Gates over there just off of selling aluminum. Now they want a piece of the big daddy...oil.

Who cares? Oil for Food is what started the Petro Dollar vs Petro Euro War... Beginning to an end of Dollar Hegemony. Duh...did you just figure out control of natural resources is why we fight? Welcome to the world.



Yeah, I'll jus' go grab my shotty right now. 🙄 Hugo Chavez is just a politician that likes to **** with the US because he can and it makes him popular to do so.

How shocking! That politician is trying to drive OPEC away from petro-dollar. And you don't care? Where is your nationalism?


Actually those countries are helping to STRENGTHEN the dollar as they all help perpetuate the petrodollar by pegging their product to one currency that everyone else has to use. The reason everyone wants alternative fuel is because the writing is on the wall. The dollar may very well have had its day and we need an insurance policy when Mr oil sheik in Kuwait wants him some rubles for that barrel of petrol.

U-huh, Yeah right. Except for the house saud, they all want to trade their oil with whatever currency that benefits them the most. If anything, it's in the best interest of China and Japan to keep Petro-Dollar. Who has the largest Dollar reserve in the world besides the US?





At best that's just a chicken vs. egg argument. The solution is to only trade with countries that institute some sort of minimum wage law so that American labor can compete with them. We have all of the power right now, may as well use it. Do you honestly think the decline of American industry is due to to unions? Don't be so naive, the industrialists would be exploiting third world labor for $0.25/hour no matter what. Do you think American workers should all be paid $3/hour so they can compete with the int'l market?

First, no it's not a chicken vs. egg argument. Second, even if it is, it is a good argument. Union may have been necessary at one point. But not today. If anything, it had a tremendous negative effect on our auto-industry. Only an idiot fails to see it.

The US can't MAKE anything anymore. People are paid more to DO things than to MAKE things. Hence, the service industry economy has emerged...which may or may not be able to sustain itself. Even the service jobs that don't require a human physically being in this country have all been "outsourced." But that's what is running this country. Intrinsically worthless currency supported internationally SOLELY due to its position as a fiat and jobs that perpetuate poor trading deficits. It's a vicious cycle that slowly bleeds the US out. The second all of them dollars on the free market become worthless, we're so screwed it ain't funny.

Hey, that's just capitalism, baby.

Don't get pissed off just because other countries can do things cheaper while the US union articificially jacked up our labor and benefit cost that eats away at the US auto industry progress.

So, take your pick. You're pissed off others can do things cheaper but meanwhile you support the union by trade sanctions against countries with no minimum wage? Capitalism or Union?


The first was a Vizio; which is an American company in California, assembly in the US, parts from multiple countries. The second was an Olevia, owned by Syntax-Brillian out of Arizona. Same deal, assembly in the US, parts from multiple countries.

Hmmm..thought VIZIO was made in Taiwan and Olevia uses LG LCD.

But nobody MAKES anything in the US anymore, so what the hell do you expect me to do? Assembly in the US is the best you can do.

Yeah..but where is your nationalism? You should boycott all TV! And your cell phone (if you have one) is made where?
 
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...and the generic isn't. Plus, medical decisions shouldn't be affected by such things, anyway. Patient care is above macroeconomics. People are more important than that.


So you shy away from generics from other countries? So you pick and choose your nationalism to best fit your convenience by hiding behind "holer than thou Patient Care." :meanie: There are alternatives to Cefazolin if you truly want to shy away from Japanese prodcut and inventions.

Heck... Don't buy a suby. No big deal. But even if you did, Subaru doesn't have to make a single cent out of you even if the car requires repairs.

Fairly illogical that you would forego additional safety of Suby in wintery conditions that can potentially affect your health and others.
 
Oh wait... did UAW have anything to do with outsourcing?
 
Let me tell you about the steel workers union of america. They came to my hospital to start a union for technical employees. Well, pretty much everyone decided to join (not pharmacists).

Union started to collect $25 per paycheck immediately.. and the negotiation started. But once membership dues started to flow, the union engotiators were hard to find...kept postponing meetings...dragged the negotiation on and on and on.

For year and half, my technicians could not get a raise. I wasn't allowed to change their salary nor give them a bonus. No merit increase nor cost of living adjustment. In the end, everyone got a $1.50 adjustment. Without the union, their increase would have been much higher.

Guess who benefitted the most out this deal. The union leaders. They called a strike once... right, who cares about patient care. Fortunately, workers didn't strike.
 
Who cares? Oil for Food is what started the Petro Dollar vs Petro Euro War... Beginning to an end of Dollar Hegemony. Duh...did you just figure out control of natural resources is why we fight? Welcome to the world.

Still obsessed with the Euro? Not sure why I should expect otherwise...bringing up Saddam and the Iraq Euro fad from back in '02. This isn't 2002. The Euro isn't doing jack. The Ruble is now the #1 competitor with the dollar long term. Read up, son.

How shocking! That politician is trying to drive OPEC away from petro-dollar. And you don't care? Where is your nationalism?

Sure, I care...why do you think he's so cozy with the Russians? But he's not powerful enough to mean anything...and he really is just a crazy small time nothing that pisses off the US because he can...



U-huh, Yeah right. Except for the house saud, they all want to trade their oil with whatever currency that benefits them the most. If anything, it's in the best interest of China and Japan to keep Petro-Dollar. Who has the largest Dollar reserve in the world besides the US?

...and who's dumping the dollar at the fastest rate? Who is getting in with the Russians to open up a ruble oil-trade?

First, no it's not a chicken vs. egg argument.
Yes it is.

Second, even if it is, it is a good argument. Union may have been necessary at one point. But not today. If anything, it had a tremendous negative affect on our auto-industry. Only an idiot fails to see it.

They had a "negative" effect in the sense that they refused to take a minimum wage for high-level work. The reason the auto industry "died" is because labor in less industrialized nations is insanely cheap. If there was no union at all, the US manufacturers would have still been unable to compete with the sweat shop an ocean away. Why would they work for $10/hour working in hellish conditions when they could make twice that in the service industry as an insurance salesman?

Don't get pissed off just because other countries can do things cheaper while the US union articificially jacked up our labor and benefit cost that eats away at the US auto industry progress.

Yeah.."artificially." They made a product and bargained. They have power. As soon as the American worker grows a pair, they run off and pay very, very poor workers **** for their labor. And if it was that big of a deal, they could just not hire the union. But guess what...American labor is more expensive, period. Non-union manufacturing jobs have gone away, too. A union is not some magical evil death-knoll to American manufacturing. The existence of third world labor that works for 1/20th the price is. It's all fluid, anyway. I could just as easily say that the American workers get a fair wage and it's the third-world labor that artificially lowers the wage.

In fact, that would be much easier to argue...you tell me which is most likely a fair wage - $1.25/hour or $20/hour? Ha...artificially inflated. Riiiiight...

I can complain about wealth stratification here, but in China it's disgusting. They need unions and wage reform over there like crazy. They are being exploited. If we had balls, we'd cut off trade to them until they reformed both economic and human rights issues...but we don't...we like our little fiat gravy train too much, right?

So, take your pick. Your pissed off others can do things cheaper but meanwhile you suppor the union by trade sanctions against countries with no minimum wage? Capitalism or Union?

That's not a black vs. white concept...making a "take your pick" question out of the subject is incredibly shallow and short-sigthed. If you want to bury your head in the sand, feel free. But crazy old Stalin was right. The capitalists will sell you the rope you hang them with. It's basically our economy over the last 30 years in a nutshell.

Hmmm..thought VIZIO was made in Taiwan and Olevia uses LG LCD.

Like I said, assembled in the US...parts from multiple countries. Learn to read, oh wise genius.

Yeah..but where is your nationalism? You should boycott all TV! And your cell phone (if you have one) is made where?

Yeah, ok...back in the real world, that's not realistic. Your entire logic for anything relies on over-the-top hyperbole and black vs. white logic with no shades of gray as an option. How the hell can you support US companies when foreign manufacturers have a monopoly on the market? It's a weak-ass "gotcha" argument you are trying to turn into a slippery-slope argument. No, if I try to support US companies above foreign companies, it does not mean I can't use things that US manufacturers do not produce.
 
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So you shy away from generics from other countries? So you pick and choose your nationalism to best fit your convenience by hiding behind "holer than thou Patient Care." :meanie: There are alternatives to Cefazolin if you truly want to shy away from Japanese prodcut and inventions.

I don't really care who invented anything. I'm just saying that all things being equal, I would much rather buy an American product than a foreign one. AGAIN, you are trying to pawn a stupid slippery-slope argument off.

Heck... Don't buy a suby. No big deal. But even if you did, Subaru doesn't have to make a single cent out of you even if the car requires repairs.

It increases resale value...plus I think Subarus look stupid. Every damn one has that ugly ass faux-intake hood. Like that little inline 4 banger some of those models have requires such ventilation. It's like they are trying to be those idiots that take a Honda Civic, put it on 22s, put a spoiler on a FWD, and put a front bumber dam on the thing that's the size of a small country...with ground effects...and those stupid exhausts that make your car sound like a riding lawn mower. 🙄


Fairly illogical that you would forego additional safety of Suby in wintery conditions that can potentially affect your health and others.

Man, Subarus aren't any safer than an AWD Volvo or Ford, anyway. Especially Volvo...they are the reknowned king of safety...and owned by Ford. I'm kinda liking their wagon-looking things. XC70, XC90....
 
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Let me tell you about the steel workers union of america. They came to my hospital to start a union for technical employees. Well, pretty much everyone decided to join (not pharmacists).

Union started to collect $25 per paycheck immediately.. and the negotiation started. But once membership dues started to flow, the union engotiators were hard to find...kept postponing meetings...dragged the negotiation on and on and on.

For year and half, my technicians could not get a raise. I wasn't allowed to change their salary nor give them a bonus. No merit increase nor cost of living adjustment. In the end, everyone got a $1.50 adjustment. Without the union, their increase would have been much higher.

Guess who benefitted the most out this deal. The union leaders. They called a strike once... right, who cares about patient care. Fortunately, workers didn't strike.

That's because they had a ****ty union. Other unions are making their employees more money and a larger share of corporate profit. Just because one corporation fails, does it mean they are all then failures and that the concept is then a failure? It's a business with a product to sell just like anything else. It is a manifestation of capitalism that businessmen and supporters of the "free market" have to deal with. People don't seem to realize that.
 
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