Hiding your Previous Matriculation?

[Qcumber4life]

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Help!

I went to an undergraduate school in 2001 and withdrew the 1st semester there to go give my professional ballet career a shot. When that didn't pan out i went to community college for a couple years earning mostly, W's and F's. Sooo five years later when i decided to go the MD route i dropped out of the community college and just started going back to my original undergraduate school. I didn't transfer any community college credits or say i even went to a community college. Since then i have done spectacular. On my transcript i have the W's from 2001 but they don't go count towards my GPA because they were official withdrawals. No big deal.

My question is every where on the AMCAS application they say please list all previous matriculation. But I'm under the impression if i don't say that i went to community college they won't find out. I don't think there's a national database anywhere which AMCAS could look at and see "Oh he went to this community college from 2003-2005". I feel like this is why they stress putting it down, because they cannot check themselves since i did not transfer anything from the community college. Either way I'm going to not put the community college down and see what happens.

Please don't respond and say oh if it says it you have to put it down. I'm looking for some information. Is there someway they could find out about this community college? Have you heard of anyone who tried avoiding a similar situation, was caught, and had to adjust their application?

Thanks for the input.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

I don't think they can find out. Or at least I've never heard of them going in search of information like that.

 

[JJMrK]

No one is going to give you the advice you're looking for. Be honest and play the same game everyone else has to play.

 

[adeline]

There is a database, they will find it, and they will reject you when they find out you lied.

Suck it up.

 

[crasiman]

Actually I feel like there is such a database, and that this would show up during any background checks performed by schools (many perform background checks prior to matriculation. This means a school might not find out until you've been accepted, at which point you'll most likely be abruptly expelled without a refund of all the money you would have spent on applying or potentially moving).

Even if there is not such a database that's easily accessible, there's still a good chance it would show up on a routine background check, you're risking a whole lot on what is most likely something that you could explain or perhaps turn into a positive aspect of your application. The essay portions of the primary and secondaries give you the opportunity to discuss it.

Is this really how you want to start a career?

 

[mmmcdowe]

Help!

I went to an undergraduate school in 2001 and withdrew the 1st semester there to go give my professional ballet career a shot. When that didn't pan out i went to community college for a couple years earning mostly, W's and F's. Sooo five years later when i decided to go the MD route i dropped out of the community college and just started going back to my original undergraduate school. I didn't transfer any community college credits or say i even went to a community college. Since then i have done spectacular. On my transcript i have the W's from 2001 but they don't go count towards my GPA because they were official withdrawals. No big deal.

My question is every where on the AMCAS application they say please list all previous matriculation. But I'm under the impression if i don't say that i went to community college they won't find out. I don't think there's a national database anywhere which AMCAS could look at and see "Oh he went to this community college from 2003-2005". I feel like this is why they stress putting it down, because they cannot check themselves since i did not transfer anything from the community college. Either way I'm going to not put the community college down and see what happens.

Please don't respond and say oh if it says it you have to put it down. I'm looking for some information. Is there someway they could find out about this community college? Have you heard of anyone who tried avoiding a similar situation, was caught, and had to adjust their application?

Thanks for the input.

I'm tempted to encourage you to do it, just so you get punished for being so slimy.

They have your SSN, there is a way for them to find every school that you have ever attended using it, and you will be expelled from the cycle for not telling the truth. Then again, they might not check, so you could get away with it.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

there's no fcking database. but don't be a cheater.

 

[Qcumber4life]

I have a 35 mcat and a 3.9 GPA. With that i'm sure if i do reveal a bunch of F's and W's i will not get into any of my top schools. This is why it is an important issue.

I just wish there were some answers. People say things like SSN, backround check's, and the existence/non-existence of databases. Does anyone really know anything about this?

 

[adeline]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=national+student+clearinghouse

 

[adele87]

There's probably a fair chance you could get away with it. Only you can decide whether it's worth it for you to take the risk and whether you can tolerate it on your conscience.

 

[Kimaris]

You could do a background check on yourself to see what comes up. But its honestly not worth it to go through 3-4 years of med school at 50k a year and then be expelled because someone found out you lied on an application. You'll pretty much ruin any chance of doing anything academically. If you do this your **** better not stink. Thats all I got to say.

 

[red10]

I have a 35 mcat and a 3.9 GPA. With that i'm sure if i do reveal a bunch of F's and W's i will not get into any of my top schools. This is why it is an important issue.

I just wish there were some answers. People say things like SSN, backround check's, and the existence/non-existence of databases. Does anyone really know anything about this?

obviously you learned something and got great scores and GPA. if they see a big gap from high school to college they may ask some questions.
If nothing else you should tell them so you know you got in because you earned it, not because you're scum

 

[futureboy]

OP, you're asking us for advice on how to commit academic fraud and get away with it. How about looking for an honest solution?

Contact the community college to see if you can petition to have the Fs changed to Ws. If there are circumstances justifying the change, the school may do it. Then report attendance at the cc, and the Ws. Yes, you will have to explain the Ws, but they're better than Fs.

 

[Qcumber4life]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=national+student+clearinghouse

Yes, I've seen this. But i still wonder if they would be able to verify my attendance if they have no clue what school i went to?

OP, you're asking us for advice on how to commit academic fraud and get away with it. How about looking for an honest solution?

Contact the community college to see if you can petition to have the Fs changed to Ws. If there are circumstances justifying the change, the school may do it. Then report attendance at the cc, and the Ws. Yes, you will have to explain the Ws, but they're better than Fs.

Thanks for the advice, i think i may do this.

 

[JJMrK]

I have a 35 mcat and a 3.9 GPA. With that i'm sure if i do reveal a bunch of F's and W's i will not get into any of my top schools. This is why it is an important issue.

I just wish there were some answers. People say things like SSN, backround check's, and the existence/non-existence of databases. Does anyone really know anything about this?

You get what you've earned.

 

[bakanoisha]

Honesty is always the best policy. It's more than cliche. People appreciate honesty and skeletons always make their way out of the closet. If you've got a concern, discuss it with the appropriate people. If it makes you life harder, deal with it.... that's life.

 

[adeline]

Yes, I've seen this. But i still wonder if they would be able to verify my attendance if they have no clue what school i went to?

Thanks for the advice, i think i may do this.

From what I understand, it is linked to unique identifiers, not your word.

 

[thinker]

get the facts right. if they can't find out.. then don't tell them. although i find it admirable that u had the courage to change things around a few times.. the average person will get sucked into things and be helpless to do anything else

 

[futureboy]

I have a 35 mcat and a 3.9 GPA. With that i'm sure if i do reveal a bunch of F's and W's i will not get into any of my top schools. This is why it is an important issue.

You won't "get into any of [your] top schools." Cry me a river. Actions (failing community college classes)have consequences (maybe not getting into a top school), and you're not exempt. Ok, so you may not get into Harvard, but you have a good chance of getting in somewhere even if you report the community college grades (as is).

However, given your strong desire to commit academic fraud, I seriously question your character and fitness to practice medicine.

 

[thinker]

However, given your strong desire to commit academic fraud, I seriously question your character and fitness to practice medicine.

wow ur good.. u nailed her down didn't u? people r so smart sometimes 😀

 

[futureboy]

Honesty is always the best policy. It's more than cliche. People appreciate honesty and skeletons always make their way out of the closet. If you've got a concern, discuss it with the appropriate people. If it makes you life harder, deal with it.... that's life.

Well said!

 

[Compass]

You won't "get into any of [your] top schools." Cry me a river. Actions (failing community college classes)have consequences (maybe not getting into a top school), and you're not exempt. Ok, so you may not get into Harvard, but you have a good chance of getting in somewhere even if you report the community college grades (as is).

However, given your strong desire to commit academic fraud, I seriously question your character and fitness to practice medicine.

In a nutshell:

"I'm Mr. T, and you're the foo. No pity here, though!"




You commit a crime, it's on your criminal record. You don't HAVE to admit it on AMCAS, but you'll get nailed to a coffin if you get caught. This is the same thing...

 

[futureboy]

wow ur good.. u nailed her down didn't u? people r so smart sometimes 😀

Look, I'm not opposed to putting the best spin on things. I'm not opposed to using legitimate strategies to improve your GPA (like my suggestion to petition the community for grade changes). I'm opposed to fraud, whether by commission or omission. Not reporting previous coursework is no less cheating than stealing a copy of a test, or using uncredited (copied) text in a research paper.

 

[bakanoisha]

However, given your strong desire to commit academic fraud, I seriously question your character and fitness to practice medicine.

I wouldn't go that far. In all honesty, I can see how it's tempting to leave that kind of information out. After all, it's not quite fair to be stuck with a VERY OLD academic record that is not at all an accurate representation of what you're capable of. Furthermore, that record may possibly prohibit someone from achieving a goal that came about through a process of self-discovery. It's not fair because people, and their goals, change and we should be judged by our character and capabilities, not by an old academic record that has nothing to do with the current situation. I do understand that working hard is essential, but 4yrs or so of earning a 3.9 GPA definitely prove that said person can, and does, work hard.

However, despite my sympathies, I still maintain that honesty is essential.

 

[red10]

I wouldn't go that far. In all honesty, I can see how it's tempting to leave that kind of information out. After all, it's not quite fair to be stuck with a VERY OLD academic record that is not at all an accurate representation of what you're capable of. Furthermore, that record may possibly prohibit someone from achieving a goal that came about through a process of self-discovery. It's not fair because people, and their goals, change and we should be judged by our character and capabilities, not by an old academic record that has nothing to do with the current situation. I do understand that working hard is essential, but 4yrs or so of earning a 3.9 GPA definitely prove that said person can, and does, work hard.

However, despite my sympathies, I still maintain that honesty is essential.

She's proven she is smart enough and can do well academically when she wants to. I think any school would see that as growth and maturity even with the previously poor grades.
I think that even with those early grades she could still get in many good schools. The fact that she isn't even considering honesty and just wants to be above the rules, shows that she has questionable morals and I'd hate to see what she'd do if ever put in a tight spot as a physician.
scummy👎

 

[rigel]

Not only is there a database, but it is extremely likely that your undergraduate school will not award you a degree until you transfer all your credits. It's not like they dont see other people trying to do exactly the same thing on a regular basis.

I've seen it happen.

I also echo the reservations about your fitness to practice medicine offered above.

 

[Compass]

...It's not fair because people, and their goals, change and we should be judged by our character and capabilities...

Revealing such information IS character.

 

[futureboy]

I wouldn't go that far. In all honesty, I can see how it's tempting to leave that kind of information out. After all, it's not quite fair to be stuck with a VERY OLD academic record that is not at all an accurate representation of what you're capable of. Furthermore, that record may possibly prohibit someone from achieving a goal that came about through a process of self-discovery. It's not fair because people, and their goals, change and we should be judged by our character and capabilities, not by an old academic record that has nothing to do with the current situation. I do understand that working hard is essential, but 4yrs or so of earning a 3.9 GPA definitely prove that said person can, and does, work hard.

However, despite my sympathies, I still maintain that honesty is essential.

Yes, I agree that it is not fair to be saddled with such an old academic record. Unfortunately, full academic disclosure is required, and we all have to live with it. It just ticks me off that the OP feels entitled to take a shortcut, and risk expulsion or denial of a license to practice, especially when the OP actually has a decent chance of admission somewhere even with the bad grades.

 

[MilkmanAl]

There's no sense in getting mad about someone else knowingly entering a high risk, high reward scenario. Granted, a bunch of crappy grades 8 years ago probably won't doom an applicant that has a 3.9/35 now, but it's definitely not a good thing to have on your application. If you could get away with not disclosing all your old grades (which you can't - see the clearinghouse link above) and your grades would demolish your chances of getting into school, it might be worth the risk to some people. If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin', as they say. I'd wager that just about everyone lies on his med school application in some way or another. If not, you're truly an amazing applicant, and/or you don't understand what this process is about.

 

[futureboy]

If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin', as they say.

This isn't the Jim Rome show, or professional sports. We're not talking about corked baseball bats here. We're talking about cheating in order to get into medical school.

 

[Compass]

I haven't lied on any of my applications. I thought it was the norm 😕

 

[TopSecret]

Help!

I went to an undergraduate school in 2001 and withdrew the 1st semester there to go give my professional ballet career a shot. When that didn't pan out i went to community college for a couple years earning mostly, W's and F's. Sooo five years later when i decided to go the MD route i dropped out of the community college and just started going back to my original undergraduate school. I didn't transfer any community college credits or say i even went to a community college. Since then i have done spectacular. On my transcript i have the W's from 2001 but they don't go count towards my GPA because they were official withdrawals. No big deal.

My question is every where on the AMCAS application they say please list all previous matriculation. But I'm under the impression if i don't say that i went to community college they won't find out. I don't think there's a national database anywhere which AMCAS could look at and see "Oh he went to this community college from 2003-2005". I feel like this is why they stress putting it down, because they cannot check themselves since i did not transfer anything from the community college. Either way I'm going to not put the community college down and see what happens.

Please don't respond and say oh if it says it you have to put it down. I'm looking for some information. Is there someway they could find out about this community college? Have you heard of anyone who tried avoiding a similar situation, was caught, and had to adjust their application?

Thanks for the input.

List the previous matriculation. Your undergrad GPA is high enough to buffer the F's. You should mention the circumstances though in your personal statement. If your undergraduate institution didn't have problems with the F's in community college, then the med schools might not either. Your MCAT is also pretty good at a lot of places.

Own up to your mistakes. Don't make more by becoming a fraud.

 

[adeline]

I haven't lied on any of my applications. I thought it was the norm 😕

Don't you know anything?

The way to prove that you have the ethics and integrity to be a physician is to... lie, cheat, and steal.

😕😕😕

 

[Compass]

Don't you know anything?

The way to prove that you have the ethics and integrity to be a physician is to... lie, cheat, and steal.

😕😕😕

I see your sarcastic comment and raise it one sarcastic picture.

To the OP, if your stats are stellar without the Fs, you shouldn't be afraid to reveal them...

 

[njbmd]

I wouldn't go that far. In all honesty, I can see how it's tempting to leave that kind of information out. After all, it's not quite fair to be stuck with a VERY OLD academic record that is not at all an accurate representation of what you're capable of. Furthermore, that record may possibly prohibit someone from achieving a goal that came about through a process of self-discovery. It's not fair because people, and their goals, change and we should be judged by our character and capabilities, not by an old academic record that has nothing to do with the current situation. I do understand that working hard is essential, but 4yrs or so of earning a 3.9 GPA definitely prove that said person can, and does, work hard.

However, despite my sympathies, I still maintain that honesty is essential.

If you think that it's unfair for you to have to live with your older poor academic record, then what do you say to the student who has worked their rear end off and done extremely well only to be bypassed by someone who had a previous shot and didn't take advantage of it? Your academic record, regardless of age is your academic record. What would not be fair would be for you to be able to "do over" and the person who has worked diligently from day one to be penalized for their excellent record.

What most people seem to forget is that you live with the consequences of your actions no matter how long ago those actions took place. In today's world of very expensive tuition and limited academic resources for many students who are begging for a chance, you essentially get one shot at your academics and you have to do your best. Education is a precious commodity and many people foolishly didn't take advantage of it when they had the chance. No matter how much you want to reinvent yourself, bad grades follow you forever.

 

[halekulani]

Look, I'm not opposed to putting the best spin on things. I'm not opposed to using legitimate strategies to improve your GPA (like my suggestion to petition the community for grade changes). I'm opposed to fraud, whether by commission or omission. Not reporting previous coursework is no less cheating than stealing a copy of a test, or using uncredited (copied) text in a research paper.

how about omission of...

downloaded mp3s
times went over the speed limit
occasions spent underage drinking
and so forth.

you know, omission of such pertinent facts would reflect poorly upon your integrity.

 

[mmmcdowe]

how about omission of...

downloaded mp3s
times went over the speed limit
occasions spent underage drinking
and so forth.

you know, omission of such pertinent facts would reflect poorly upon your integrity.

A fair point, and all of these would indeed hurt your chances if they came to light. However, I was not asked to list every mp3 I downloaded in the last four years on AMCAS (I actually never have, no clue how.

 

[bakanoisha]

I definitely see where you're coming from. And, I don't think you should be able to selectively remove portions of your history. However, if a person started out a bit rough bouncing about for 2yrs averaging a 2.0 and then kept a 4.0 for the next 4 years of college, do you think that they should be judged on that 2.0? I don't, personally. I think they need to be judged on who they are now, and what they currently present. Would this person make a good doctor, and are they capable? (Of course, I'm not advocating throwing out very essential information like crime, alcoholism, etc... a persons academic record is much different from their criminal one. LOL)

I come from a very blue-collar background (like, lived in a trailer park), nobody went to college, all three of my brothers and I graduated from an "alternative high school" (kicked out of normal school for not showing up and completing work because our parents just didn't care if we did), lots of family on drugs, no emphasis on education, etc and I didn't know anything about college. I signed up for classes randomly at a CC out of curiosity. I worked, went to school, and explored and eventually found my way to medicine after earning some poor marks and taking a hell of a lot of classes I will never need. However, I eventually found my way to medicine and eventually averaged a near 4.0 for 4 years after I found direction/purpose. In addition, I clearly remember when I was about to start applying to schools and had gotten to the point where I was doing very well on my MCAT practice tests that I couldn't help but sit and think to myself that it was unfair I had see my GPA drop by 0.2pts based on long past performance because, unlike the vast majority of my future classmates who were given a model to follow and essentially a path to walk down, I had to learn everything the hard way because I didn't have any support, any directions, or any base knowledge to work off of. It's easy to do well in college when you know what you're doing from day 1.

And, really...think about this: who really worked harder, the guy with the 3.7 who came from nothing with no idea of where he was headed, or the guy with the 3.9 who already had physicians in the family and where college was the rule, not the exception? The process of getting good grades in undergrad classes was easy... IMHO, breaking away from the rest of my family, finding direction, discovering who I was, learning what I had to accomplish, etc, was much more difficult.

Now, i want to reiterate that you should DEFINITELY turn in everything and report everything. Honesty is essential! I'm just saying I'm sympathetic to the idea.

If you think that it's unfair for you to have to live with your older poor academic record, then what do you say to the student who has worked their rear end off and done extremely well only to be bypassed by someone who had a previous shot and didn't take advantage of it? Your academic record, regardless of age is your academic record. What would not be fair would be for you to be able to "do over" and the person who has worked diligently from day one to be penalized for their excellent record.

What most people seem to forget is that you live with the consequences of your actions no matter how long ago those actions took place. In today's world of very expensive tuition and limited academic resources for many students who are begging for a chance, you essentially get one shot at your academics and you have to do your best. Education is a precious commodity and many people foolishly didn't take advantage of it when they had the chance. No matter how much you want to reinvent yourself, bad grades follow you forever.

 

[bakanoisha]

how about omission of...

downloaded mp3s
times went over the speed limit
occasions spent underage drinking
and so forth.

you know, omission of such pertinent facts would reflect poorly upon your integrity.

Those will be pretty standard across the board for pre-meds. Omitting transcripts, on the other hand, isn't.

 

[futureboy]

how about omission of...

downloaded mp3s
times went over the speed limit
occasions spent underage drinking
and so forth.

you know, omission of such pertinent facts would reflect poorly upon your integrity.

Yeah, those examples are EXACTLY the same as failing to disclose previous academic coursework.

 

[halekulani]

i think it's pretty bold of someone to place judgement on whether someone is fit to be a physician just because the AMCAS application doesn't have a specific question to call you out on any of the BS you may have pulled in your life.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

um, didn't you get the memo? the whole point of SDN is for a bunch of premeds to tell each other how crappy a doctor they'd make

 

[locus000]

I dont know if this will help you but back in HS i took 3 duel enrollment classes at the local community college. I didnt transfer the credit to my university since apparently I wasn't in the community college computer system. So I forgot about it and didnt bother listing it on AMCAS and it was fine.

 

[Omni]

Rather than making a big deal about it, why don't you just say that you were doing poorly before, dropped out to think about your future, and then with a serious head went in to tackle your aspiration. I mean, that 3.9 and the 35 really shows that.

 

[wanderer]

Yes, I've seen this. But i still wonder if they would be able to verify my attendance if they have no clue what school i went to?

It likely just depends on whether or not that school reports their info to the clearinghouse.

 

[KingstonPre]

I told my school about my 4 F's from another school...



My GPA is about 3.3 with that many F's averaged in. You can still get into medical school... just work hard and get accepted for who you are instead of getting kicked out over a technicality. Do you wanna go to medical school every day worried about who's gonna find out about your past? Or do you wanna go with a clear mind and positive outlook?

 

[Californian]

there is no way they will figure it out and they won't put any effort to figure it out.

 

[fMRI]

Image that you'll be a third year, doing some history taking and some nurse overhears your patient asking "Didn't we go to community college together? You flunked out of all the courses, how did you manage to become a doctor/med student?" What do you want to do then? Kill the patient to silence him/her? What are your ethical standards? Lying in a serious (egoistical) manner to get ahead? What's next??

Please grow up and find out what integrity means before you even think about applying.

Honest advice sometimes hurts. Sorry if it did.

 

[potential777]

There is a database. Do you think you are the first one to come up with such a plan?

 

[red10]

I definitely see where you're coming from. And, I don't think you should be able to selectively remove portions of your history. However, if a person started out a bit rough bouncing about for 2yrs averaging a 2.0 and then kept a 4.0 for the next 4 years of college, do you think that they should be judged on that 2.0? I don't, personally. I think they need to be judged on who they are now, and what they currently present. Would this person make a good doctor, and are they capable? (Of course, I'm not advocating throwing out very essential information like crime, alcoholism, etc... a persons academic record is much different from their criminal one. LOL)

I come from a very blue-collar background (like, lived in a trailer park), nobody went to college, all three of my brothers and I graduated from an "alternative high school" (kicked out of normal school for not showing up and completing work because our parents just didn't care if we did), lots of family on drugs, no emphasis on education, etc and I didn't know anything about college. I signed up for classes randomly at a CC out of curiosity. I worked, went to school, and explored and eventually found my way to medicine after earning some poor marks and taking a hell of a lot of classes I will never need. However, I eventually found my way to medicine and eventually averaged a near 4.0 for 4 years after I found direction/purpose. In addition, I clearly remember when I was about to start applying to schools and had gotten to the point where I was doing very well on my MCAT practice tests that I couldn't help but sit and think to myself that it was unfair I had see my GPA drop by 0.2pts based on long past performance because, unlike the vast majority of my future classmates who were given a model to follow and essentially a path to walk down, I had to learn everything the hard way because I didn't have any support, any directions, or any base knowledge to work off of. It's easy to do well in college when you know what you're doing from day 1.

And, really...think about this: who really worked harder, the guy with the 3.7 who came from nothing with no idea of where he was headed, or the guy with the 3.9 who already had physicians in the family and where college was the rule, not the exception? The process of getting good grades in undergrad classes was easy... IMHO, breaking away from the rest of my family, finding direction, discovering who I was, learning what I had to accomplish, etc, was much more difficult.

Now, i want to reiterate that you should DEFINITELY turn in everything and report everything. Honesty is essential! I'm just saying I'm sympathetic to the idea.

But don't you think it makes for a much better story to say "look I struggled and I overcame it because I am a strong person and I fought for what I have" ? So yea it sucks that they're bad grades on there but then again, it shows that you didn't have an easy path and yet you figured it out and came out better because of it.

If I were an adcom I'd want to admit the person who struggled and still wound up with a 35 and a great GPA than the person who got a 35 and a great GPA because daddy paid for a private tutor since age 5.
It shows character and maturity NOT weakness if you show that you've grown.
The OP hasn't grown which is the problem. they've learned nothing from their struggles otherwise they'd put those bad grades on there, write a baller essay and say "take me as I am because I know I'm going to be a great doctor even with Fs". Instead they're trying to sneak and squirm their way in.