High-Publicity Career Compatibility?

Started by MDhasbeen
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

MDhasbeen

shrinkie dink
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
How possible is it for psychiatrists to aim for potentially high-publicity careers (eg. entertainment, news, writing, politics etc.) while still maintaining a viable psychiatric practice? Could this compromise patient confidentiality somehow? Would you attract malingerers just because of your public persona? There are certainly physicians who do this (eg. Dr. Gupta with CNN), but I've noticed few to none of them are psychiatrists and I've wondered why. Are people using pen or stage names on the sly? I guess Michael Crichton's death got me thinking...
 
michael welner, forensic psychiatrist in NYC, and sudeepta varma, a general psychiatrist in NYC come to mind. That's all i got

charles krauthammer and sally satel both sold their souls to write for the NYT and such. so if you're conservative and have yale connections, apparently this is a pretty viable career path.

gupta did his residency at my med school, and they universally loathe him for his decision to ditch his neurosurg training to pal around with deepak chopra. i don't think he has a meaningful practice anymore, though he's on faculty at emory for whatever reason.
 
Keith Ablow is a psychiatrist who has written several novels and had a Dr. Phil-type show for a while (not sure if it's still going). Willingness breach psychotherapeutic confidentiality for $$$ just doesn't seem all that professional, even if the (probably personality disordered) patient is all for it.

Sam Shem, of House of God fame, is the pen-name of Stephen Bergman, a psychiatrist.
 
If you're aspiring for a Dr. Phil type of profession, I'd suggest against that. Not that I can stop you or anything, just that Dr. Phil has violated several professional ethics & has become a media *****.

There is room IMHO to be a celebirty psychiatrist (or in Phil's case, Psychologist) while still maintaining professional dignity. Just that Dr. Phil isn't an example.

TMZ I believe (or some other celebirty show) hired a psychiatrist to comment on various celebirties. Caught that person while channel flipping. Forgot the person's name, but that person was engaging in highly unethical conduct. The psychiatrist was discussing, psychoanalyzing & commenting on various celebirties without having any doctor-patient relationship on those people. Highly unethical & goes against professional guidelines.
 
I've mentioned probably participating in local politics, such as city council if time allows, and leaving the door open to more some day to advocate for better parity for mental health care to interviewers. Was met with positive response so far. I think that is substantially different than being a "Dr. Phil" though.
 
Would there be a conflict of interest in some of these activities though? I thought that psychiatrists were supposed to reveal very little about themselves to their patients. If you start running for office or appearing on tv or writing books under your real name, then inevitably, aspects of your personal life will become public, and patients will know about it. Especially if you run for local office, patients will know your views on local issues that might be affecting their lives.

What do people think about this?
 
Would there be a conflict of interest in some of these activities though? I thought that psychiatrists were supposed to reveal very little about themselves to their patients. If you start running for office or appearing on tv or writing books under your real name, then inevitably, aspects of your personal life will become public, and patients will know about it. Especially if you run for local office, patients will know your views on local issues that might be affecting their lives.

What do people think about this?

yeah, that's basically what i was wondering about. i mean, i'd personally never want to become the next dr. phil; but does being in psychiatry somehow get in the way of careers that could be in the public eye otherwise? say i decide i want to write a novel someday. the things patients could potentially learn about a person through a form of art could be even more revealing than what is released through the news as a political candidate. then again, if they're going to fantasize about you, they'll fantasize about you regardless of what they've seen in the media. hmmm...
 
Would there be a conflict of interest in some of these activities though? I thought that psychiatrists were supposed to reveal very little about themselves to their patients. If you start running for office or appearing on tv or writing books under your real name, then inevitably, aspects of your personal life will become public, and patients will know about it. Especially if you run for local office, patients will know your views on local issues that might be affecting their lives.

What do people think about this?
I'm a bit bemused to hear these questions from one who uses as a handle the name of the tough, outspoken Nancy Sinatra, who sang anti-war songs during the Vietnam era, is a Playboy Bunny, speaks out for gay civil rights and literacy. But these are still very good questions!

Though it is true that in the office or at the hospital the focus should always be on the patient, and as physicians we must be careful to avoid conflicts of interest, there is nothing wrong with taking our place in society as good citizens. If we don't advocate for our patients, who will? It is our duty.
As to how our patients view public actions, they are as free as anyone else to agree or disagree with us, in the same civil manner we do, without infringing on the rights of others or bringing physical harm. They are free to ask for a different physician if they perceive that they will be better served by someone else.
I agree, it is not our duty to seek fame and fortune at the expense of others - confidentiality and trust should always be safeguarded, as is the rule for all relationships, and particularly in our relationships with our patients.

And while the focus of treatment is always on the patient, that does not mean we can be robot-like professionals who reveal nothing to our patients. To establish a relationship with the patient requires some small level of self-revelation, even if that is only in our emotional response to the patient that is often all too apparent and sometimes involuntary. No one wants to talk to a robot when they are feeling bad, anyway. The other day the only way I could get a 12 year old PTSD patient to speak at all was to talk about music. Turns out we are both rock and roll fans.

It is true that when one takes the public stage he or she gives up some privacy. That is part of the price of being a public figure, even on the level of being a practicing community-based physician. It is up to the individual to note this, and determine how his private life will appear under the gaze of the public eye, and how that might affect the doctor-patient relationship, and if the benefits outweight the risks of going more public with personal views.

No public figure will ever make everybody happy, and we'll never make every patient happy, though we try our best. If making everybody happy were a requirement to being a psychiatrist, then none of us would have a job for long.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
I'm a bit bemused to hear these questions from one who uses as a handle the name of the tough, outspoken Nancy Sinatra, who sang anti-war songs during the Vietnam era, is a Playboy Bunny, speaks out for gay civil rights and literacy. But these are still very good questions!

Hee hee. However, I'm just wondering--are you sure you're not confusing my namesake with Jane Fonda as far as that 60s activism stuff? I could be wrong, I know nothing about good ole Nancy--except that she wore those famous boots, she rode to success (like many a med student) on her father's coat tails, and (like me) she is an utterly horrible singer who gave up trying long ago. I don't recall any anti-war songs... Other than that, almost all the other names were used up on SDN, and I was not ABOUT to be LawrenceWelk.

I have to say, I think I disagree with some of what you're saying. You're a med student too, is that right? Anyway, agreed, we will all be free to choose our roles in society as well as within medicine. But I'm just saying, I think there are boundary issues in psychiatry that are unique, which we will only fully learn about in residency, when we are hopefully taught them formally. And actually, there might BE times where it is appropriate to reveal next to NOTHING about ourselves to our patients. If we're running for office then won't that compromise the care of a patient if that's the requirement? I'm not saying I know when that is or why, just that there may be such times and places. Maybe certain types of therapy require that more than others. Anyway, I'd like to learn those rules first before deciding it's ok to do this or that publicly just because my conscience guides me in that direction.

Now, I'm sure there are ways to combine public service with being a psychiatrist. I'm just saying, there might be conflicts here and there which will require some working out.

But if I do become famous, I will definitely wear my boots! 🙂
 
say i decide i want to write a novel someday. the things patients could potentially learn about a person through a form of art could be even more revealing than what is released through the news as a political candidate.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about that unless something in your book would be so extreme, it'd be to the point where it'd make patients concerned. E.g. what if you wrote an op-ed book saying something very polarizing. Patients of yours of a differing viewpoint might not want you as your doctor.

But that's a part of life. Anyone making art & presenting it to the public is subject to people feeling they can judge the art & in turn the artist. I've never seen any entity that makes the guidelines by which we practice make rules on the types of "art" we can do, so long as it does not violate any of the existing guidelines such as patient confidentiality among others.

Being a doctor entails certain responsibilities. Writing a book, so long as it doesn't reveal individual patient's names, has blaringly incorrect medical data, or things along those lines I don't see would be a problem.
 
Now, I'm sure there are ways to combine public service with being a psychiatrist. I'm just saying, there might be conflicts here and there which will require some working out.

But if I do become famous, I will definitely wear my boots! 🙂

Why would there be conflicts? psychiatrists serve on all sorts of public and private boards. This congress(?) will have more physicians on it than any other time in history. Maybe it was the House...either way.

Many psychiatrists choose to have their private lives remain private, and for good reason, but there is nothing telling you that you can't live your life in any manner you choose on your own time (within reason of course).
 
Why would there be conflicts? psychiatrists serve on all sorts of public and private boards. This congress(?) will have more physicians on it than any other time in history. Maybe it was the House...either way.

Many psychiatrists choose to have their private lives remain private, and for good reason, but there is nothing telling you that you can't live your life in any manner you choose on your own time (within reason of course).

Serving on boards is pretty discreet thought. And being in Congress pretty much is a full time job, so how many patients are these doctors carrying, and are they psychotherapy patients? I mean, if these are cardiac patients, fine.

Anyway, I can't remember where, but I've heard in the past that it's controversial, say, for a psychiatrist to talk to a patient about their own personal lives or to have mementos of their personal life in their office where the patient can see them. So I'd extend this to the psychiatrist telling the patient their opinions on political issues. Am I wrong that that just doesn't seem very proper?

But then, if the same patient finds out about their psychiatrist's personal life and political opinions through the media, it doesn't matter anymore? If you run for office, your patients will know everything about you that they aren't allowed to ask you during sessions. Doesn't that compromise the therapy?

Or if the doctor's skeletons in the closet get smeared all over the media it's not going to be a problem? That's what I'm talking about. That's just politics as usual in America.

I once saw Kay Jamison speak and she said she gave up seeing patients after she published her first book because it revealed personal information about herself, which created a conflict for any patient she might see in the future, she said.
 
Here's an example I just thought of. Say in my private life I was running for office and was publicly known to be opposed to abortion. But in my practice I had patients who had had an abortion and wanted to talk about it in psychotherapy. (Or did not want to talk about it. But they did not want to go INTO therapy KNOWING they were being judged.)

You could see this same situation happening in Ob/Gyn. An Ob/Gyn doctor might be opposed to abortion and could run for office too. But they could simply opt out of performing abortions. They could refer their patients to other doctors who do abortions (as I believe they are required to do in this situation?)

What then would the psychiatrist do in this situation? They're running for office, and their view is publicly known. They can't take back their opinion. Can they only see patients who agree with them about abortion after that? Would that be good therapy for THOSE patients--to go to therapy with prior knowledge that the doctor is like-minded?

I'm just wondering...
 
Since these are decisions that don't affect the overwhelming majority of people in our profession, there's no rules that are made to give reccomendations or govern what happens in these situations.

Its up to the individual psychiatrist in this situation. I suggest the course of action for someone in the situation to be taken very seriously.
 
Say in my private life I was running for office and was publicly known to be opposed to abortion. But in my practice I had patients who had had an abortion and wanted to talk about it in psychotherapy.
If you're running for a high enough office that anybody is going to care about your views on abortion, then it's pretty unlikely that you would still be seeing patients.
 
Here's an example I just thought of. Say in my private life I was running for office and was publicly known to be opposed to abortion. But in my practice I had patients who had had an abortion and wanted to talk about it in psychotherapy. (Or did not want to talk about it. But they did not want to go INTO therapy KNOWING they were being judged.)

You could see this same situation happening in Ob/Gyn. An Ob/Gyn doctor might be opposed to abortion and could run for office too. But they could simply opt out of performing abortions. They could refer their patients to other doctors who do abortions (as I believe they are required to do in this situation?)

What then would the psychiatrist do in this situation? They're running for office, and their view is publicly known. They can't take back their opinion. Can they only see patients who agree with them about abortion after that? Would that be good therapy for THOSE patients--to go to therapy with prior knowledge that the doctor is like-minded?

I'm just wondering...

I can see now what you're talking about to a better degree.

Personally, I would think that you'd be able to push past your own ideas and beliefs to engage in therapy with a patient. Tons of patients spoke to me of their excitement for Obama, for example. I resisted the urge to put them on antipsychotics, and made nice neutral statements without revealing too much about my own ideas..."this election certainly is exciting." Then again, I had to bite my tongue when I asked the Fordham sociology major what she knew of the election as part of a mental-status type test (I asked who was running for president). Of course, she was very excited to vote for Obama. Incidentally, she didn't even know the republican candidate, and had no idea who obama's VP pick was. 🙄

In terms of what you're talking about above - not to sound sort of crass, but if they don't like the public information they know about you, they're free to find another therapist. From my practice experience thus far, I'd venture to say that most patients would not care too much, so long as you were an effective therapist.

Also incidentally, this is why I like med management. A lot less baggage. 😎
 
Any profession, you announce your views, you're opening yourself up to people who want to express their disagreements with you.

In my older age, I've avoided more really heated political debates than I did in my younger years. I still like to have an intellectual discussion on politics now & then, but often times the arguments have gotten too passionate & too personal.

Besides, as I've gotten older, I've found many reasons to understand both sides of the spectrum. I've gone from left leaning to center (with a mix of right & left views).
 
Personally, I would think that you'd be able to push past your own ideas and beliefs to engage in therapy with a patient. Tons of patients spoke to me of their excitement for Obama, for example. I resisted the urge to put them on antipsychotics, and made nice neutral statements without revealing too much about my own ideas..."this election certainly is exciting." Then again, I had to bite my tongue when I asked the Fordham sociology major what she knew of the election as part of a mental-status type test (I asked who was running for president). Of course, she was very excited to vote for Obama. Incidentally, she didn't even know the republican candidate, and had no idea who obama's VP pick was.

What if they were about to vote for one of those fruitcake third party candidates, which my ballot was teeming with this year, as always? I'm not talking Nader, either. Is there ANY sane reason why someone would vote for some of those people?

Speaking of mental status exams, how is it that so many Americans can't name the past presidents? I mean, is there some form of retrograde amnesia in which presidential eras prior to the Clinton years are forgotten? I'm serious, no one I ask ever remembers! And they aren't embarrassed! But these same people invariably remember their high school names and graduation years. Personally, I'm embarrassed when I can't remember before Roosevelt, AND their wives and VPs.

I once took an exam as an MSII in which we had to write an "assessment" of a patient whose mental status exam included the patient reciting the past presidents, where he left out President Ford. I couldn't tell if the patient left out Ford, or the person who wrote the exam accidentally left out Ford. It made a huge difference in the patient's mental status and diagnosis! I had to make a huge comment in the margin of my exam pointing out this confusion. I'm sure they questioned MY mental status because of the huge comment....
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
....
I once took an exam as an MSII in which we had to write an "assessment" of a patient whose mental status exam included the patient reciting the past presidents, where he left out President Ford. I couldn't tell if the patient left out Ford, or the person who wrote the exam accidentally left out Ford. It made a huge difference in the patient's mental status and diagnosis! I had to make a huge comment in the margin of my exam pointing out this confusion. I'm sure they questioned MY mental status because of the huge comment....

I find my patients universally neglect Bush the Elder. 😛