High ranked MD versus low ranked MD/PhD

[inky]

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I have a feeling this question must be relevant to people other than me, so I was hoping for some general input.

Mine is a hypothetical situation right now because I'm not in either program yet, but because of costs and time off work I need to consider what interviews I attend very carefully (I have received 3 MD-only interviews in the past 2 weeks).

I have been told I am very highly ranked at an MD/PhD program. Acceptances will be going out next week, but I have been invited for a second visit later in March. This school is ranked somewhere in the 90s out of all the med schools (I'm trying to keep this somewhat vague for anonymity).

Last week I was invited for an interview for an MD-only program at a school ranked in the low 20s. This interview will require I take 2 days off work and costs a few hundred dollars to attend so I do not want to attend the interview unless I think I would actually want to attend the school if I got in.


Typically, I know the general consensus has been that if you want a PhD then you should accept that MD/PhD program, but I was wondering if there was a point where this changes due to rankings of the school?

Thanks for any input!

 

[mw18]

I'm no md/phd expert, but I would look at how well the md/phd's from that program end up matching. Not what specialties (because geography and desire affect this), but how well the ones that want your specialty or competitive specialties or whatever you want do. Because that's what the school is all about, matching. They'd have to match pretty poorly in comparison to offset free school and a free phd. With the research credentials that come with a phd, I would think matching wouldn't be much of a problem.

Now counting chickens before they hatch is a different issue.

 

[StIGMA]

How good is the school's graduate program that you think you would join? If it's a top-10 graduate department in your field, then go for it. If they are a mediocre PhD program as well, then evaluate how much you really want the MD/PhD (versus research in a different point in your career). This MD/PhD program better also be fully covered tuition/stipend with no payback clause; also make sure their recent graduates have finished on time (~8 years). If there are any red flags with the program (unstable department, unhappy students) then reconsider how badly you want it. 8 years is a long time.

Would you otherwise be happy with 4-5 years MD and then do research while a resident/fellow (when you can re-evaluate how important research is for your career)?

Seeing as you don't have an acceptance to their program, you should go on this MD-only interview anyways. "Very highly ranked" doesn't mean you will get an acceptance.

So wait until you have your acceptances in hand to decide where you want to go.

 

[mynameistoolong]

You can ponder and choose later. Attend all interviews you are invited to if you have no definite acceptances.

I thought I had too many IIs two years ago and was so sure I would get in somewhere. Even though I attended all my interviews I wasn't very enthusiastic for the low-rank schools. Ended up having to reapply and spending another few thousand $$$. Not to mention I am losing two years of my highest attending salary. A few hundred (or even thousands) of extra spending now is nothing compared to even a small risk of losing a few years of six digit physician salary...

 

[inky]

I do appreciate all of the "be careful" feedback, but I really am looking for feedback to the question. I have spent enough time telling myself that my chances of getting in anywhere are very low.

I have an MD acceptance at the school where I am waiting to hear about MD-PhD. I have no more MD-PhD options, and I will hear back from them this week. I have taken the last 2 MD-only interviews I received, but now I am looking at spending over $400 on transport and losing out on 2 days of pay so I am just trying to figure out if it is worth it, especially this late in the cycle. I am grateful for any IIs I received, but I also don't want to attend an interview at a school I wouldn't choose to attend over a place I have an acceptance.


How about we take my situation out of the mix.
The question: would you ever choose a highly ranked (20 or so) MD only program over a much lower ranked (90 or so) MD-PhD program?
Assuming no red flags or issues in either program, is there a point where it's worth doing MD-only to be at a much more highly ranked school?

 

[Danbo1957]

Thought process: if you get an MD you will do clinical work and specialty relevant research. If you get an MD/PhD you will for the most part work in the lab within your dissertation subject; the added MD allows you to work in other areas of medicine that would require an MD (and do a residency of course). At our academic place there are many MD/PhD's, ninety percent of them run labs, and 2/3's of those didn't do a residency. One thing though, general thought is for a clinician, one should go to the best medical school accepted into (except for emergency medicine, nobody cares where they went to school 🙂 -- yes joking... sorta').

 

[shady_bb]

Not sure how to interpret the tone for the posts in this recent discussion, but a similar question is asked. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/dilemma-top-25-md-vs-low-tier-md-phd.116869/

Seems like by the end the discussion is more about the value of the combined degree vs. the MD alone. But I guess that is also at the heart of your question. From my inexperienced standpoint, I would say that both paths have advantages and disadvantages but you can't really go wrong either way.

As to whether I personally would choose a much higher ranked MD over a lower ranked MD/PhD, I can't give you a good answer because I'm not in that position. However, I think the couple hundred dollars is worth the chance at having that choice rather than possibly not getting into either, even with how likely your MD/PhD acceptance is.

 

[inky]

Thank you for the link @shady_bb. I had found that thread but I wasn't sure whether the original advice in the thread still held true given that it was from 2004 and the advice from 2015 seems pretty negative towards MD/PhD.

I will see if I can persuade my boss to let me miss work (again), and hope that the universe makes my decision for me!

 

[eteshoe]

Your final decision will come down to where you see yourself 10 yrs, 15 yrs, 20 yrs from now. If you want to mostly pursue basic/translational science research (as a PI), a MD/PhD may fit the bill. If you want to mostly practice medicine, with the occasional clinical research project - an MD + research fellowship may be sufficient.

 

[Shifty B]

How good is the school's graduate program that you think you would join? If it's a top-10 graduate department in your field, then go for it.

This is the answer. Any top 25 med school (or even top 50-100) is excellent and will leave you with great options for residency and fellowship where you may have options for lots of research.

The 25th best PhD program in your area of research may not be great because the talent is heavily concentrated at the top institutions. Not a rule obviously, but mostly true.

Research is very dependent on who you worked with, and if you want to do academics even more so. PhD only researchers without a top researcher/institution attached to their CV may find themselves without a job doing what they want.