High school publications

[juleppedMint]

Hello,

I was part of a prolific lab in high school and was wondering whether it's allowed and/or advisable to list publications from that lab on my app, as I've read that adcoms care very little for high school activities. If I can/should list the pubs, is it a red flag if I don't show the same level of research productivity during undergrad?

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[DNAJB6]

If you had publications in high school but nothing thereafter (no research, etc.), I do think it would be a red flag at a school that values research.

 

[WheezyBaby]

Pubs follow you for life. As far as your question, research productivity is different from research involvement. If you just mean productivity, no. Regardless, list your pubs.

 

[KnightDoc]

If you had publications in high school but nothing thereafter (no research, etc.), I do think it would be a red flag at a school that values research.

And if you do have research and pubs in UG, no reason to mention HS. Basically, lose-lose. Anything is allowed, but reaching back to HS for accomplishments is never advisable.

OP -- Did you reach back to grade school in search of things to write in your college application? Same idea, but with much higher stakes and much higher expectations. If you were such a rock star in HS, what happened in UG? And, if you continued being a rock star in UG, who cares what you did in HS? Lose-lose mentioning HS, other than for things like UG merit scholarships, which carry on through UG.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

And if you do have research and pubs in UG, no reason to mention HS. Basically, lose-lose. Anything is allowed, but reaching back to HS for accomplishments is never advisable.

What's wrong with showing HS publications? How is it lose-lose? As you stated several times getting a publication depends on lot of different things starting with PI, type of research and score of the research. As @WheezyBaby (a faculty member) said they follow you for life. How much adcoms value is different story but definitely not lose-lose.

 

[KnightDoc]

What's wrong with showing HS publications? How is it lose-lose? As you stated several times getting a publication depends on lot of different things starting with PI, type of research and score of the research. As @WheezyBaby (a faculty member) said they follow you for life. How much adcoms value is different story but definitely not lose-lose.

If you say so. To me, if you haven't done anything since, that's a problem. And if you have, mentioning HS accomplishments is unnecessary. Lose-lose!

If you think a med school adcom will be impressed by something you did in HS, definitely feel free to go for it!! In a world where they value gap year experiences more and more, it hardly seems intuitive that they will give a crap about anything done BEFORE UG, but, as always, YMMV.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

If you say so. To me, if you haven't done anything since, that's a problem. And if you have, mentioning HS accomplishments is unnecessary. Lose-lose!

If you think a med school adcom will be impressed by something you did in HS, definitely feel free to go for it!! In a world where they value gap year experiences more and more, it hardly seems intuitive that they will give a crap about anything done BEFORE UG, but, as always, YMMV.

If you haven't done any research in UG then it's problem but not lack of publications in UG vs having them in HS. Again I didn't say adcoms will be impressed but I don't think mentioning HS pubs will be lose-lose situation.

 

[KnightDoc]

If you haven't done any research in UG then it's problem but not lack of publications in UG vs having them in HS. Again I didn't say adcoms will be impressed but I don't think mentioning HS pubs will be lose-lose situation.

Fine. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Out of curiosity, how many HS accomplishments did your kid list, and how much time was spent discussing them on interviews? I happen to be HUGE fan of "do what I say, not what I do" advice from parents!!! It's the story of my life growing up!!!

My point is nothing you do in HS matters in a forum where adcoms are looking for experiences BEYOND UG, not BEFORE it!!!!! Pubs in HS with nothing in UG will mean as much as no pubs in HS with none in UG. What have you done lately? Nothing, but you were a star 4 years ago? Great! Welcome to [fill in the blank] med school!!

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Fine. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Out of curiosity, how many HS accomplishments did your kid list, and how much time was spent discussing them on interviews? I happen to be HUGE fan of "do what I say, not what I do" advice from parents!!! It's the story of my life growing up!!!

I am only arguing lose-lose proposition. My kid did mention HS research which was published during UG, but not as a separate activity.

 

[RJ McReady]

A pub is a pub
The journal citation doesn’t say “high school diploma” on it.
List any and all publications you have. It will never hurt you.

 

[Goro]

Pubs follow you for life. As far as your question, research productivity is different from research involvement. If you just mean productivity, no. Regardless, list your pubs.

Agree 10000%

 

[KnightDoc]

I am only arguing lose-lose proposition.

I know -- you're arguing about the merits of something your own kid wouldn't dream of doing!

Lose-lose was meant to be a sarcastic twist on win-win. If you have subsequent accomplishments, reaching back to HS is unnecessary and superfluous. Lose. If you don't, reaching back to HS only highlights that and doesn't mitigate. Lose. Lose-lose, meaning there is nothing to gain by doing it, either way.

@gonnif opined it could be good by demonstrating long term research interest, and, even though I don't have his experience, even I am entitled to an opinion, and I respectfully disagree. I just can't imagine schools care about HS when UG itself doesn't seem to be enough for most of them. If you have solid UG research experience, HS isn't adding anything. And, if you don't, HS isn't adding anything.

Maybe I'm wrong. Where are all the Stanford and Harvard students to tell us about their interviews delving into their HS research projects that so fascinated their interviewers? Where are all the adcoms at these types of schools telling us how much they value research and publications from HS?

@LizzyM? @gyngyn?

 

[deleted555445]

A pub is a pub
The journal citation doesn’t say “high school diploma” on it.
List any and all publications you have. It will never hurt you.

second this. list it.

 

[KnightDoc]

A pub is a pub
The journal citation doesn’t say “high school diploma” on it.
List any and all publications you have. It will never hurt you.

Okay, but if it was published when you were 14, and you're not Jonas Salk, MAYBE that citation is nothing more than a relative arranging for it to help you with your BS/MD application. This doesn't happen, and adcoms are unaware of it? I choose to believe that they don't give weight to something very few have access to, that has zero value without meaningful, substantive follow through in UG. And with that follow through, it also has no value.

Again, I am open to being wrong. Where are the superstars to tell us how their HS pubs put them over the top at research powerhouses?

 

[RJ McReady]

Listen,
A publication, no matter when it was done, shows academic interest, discipline, and achievement. I’m not going to get into an argument with you about if it should be listed. I started 2 projects in high school that weren’t published until I was in college. Did these help me get into med school? Maybe. Did they hurt me? No, they did not.

 

[deleted555445]

Okay, but if it was published when you were 14, and you're not Jonas Salk, MAYBE that citation is nothing more than a relative arranging for it to help you with your BS/MD application. This doesn't happen, and adcoms are unaware of it? I choose to believe that they don't give weight to something very few have access to, that has zero value without meaningful, substantive follow through in UG. And with that follow through, it also has no value.

Again, I am open to being wrong. Where are the superstars to tell us how their HS pubs put them over the top at research powerhouses?

I think you're confusing, "its okay to have that on your app" with, "it will put you over the top for Stanford". At many schools, it is important to demonstrate you have exposure to hypothesis-driven research and have some understanding of the importance of evidence-based science. If you have nothing else on your app indicating this, including a pub from high school can show you have engaged in this kind of science. Not to mention there's not a huge difference between doing research at 17 while in HS and at 18/19 while in college, you have pretty much the same level of knowledge and responsibility.

Its 100% true that this will largely benefit people who's parents are scientists and can ask their friends to work in their labs. I remember cold emailing PI's at a local institute in high school trying to get a spot, while many of my friends waltzed in off of a favor. Unfortunately, this system is crawling with requirements that favor privileged applicants (volunteering anyone?), but that doesn't make these things less valuable to admissions officers.

If someone can search your name on google scholar and a paper shows up, list it.

Edit: typo

 

[penguinsfan71]

Fine. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Out of curiosity, how many HS accomplishments did your kid list, and how much time was spent discussing them on interviews?

I mean n=1 but the person who interviewed me (at the school I'm currently attending) talked about a high school activity that I listed on my app for more than half the interview because they thought it was interesting.

 

[DNAJB6]

Hello,

I was part of a prolific lab in high school and was wondering whether it's allowed and/or advisable to list publications from that lab on my app, as I've read that adcoms care very little for high school activities. If I can/should list the pubs, is it a red flag if I don't show the same level of research productivity during undergrad?

Not that it really matters, but what caliber journal were you publishing in as a teenager?

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I mean n=1 but the person who interviewed me (at the school I'm currently attending) talked about a high school activity that I listed on my app for more than half the interview because they thought it was interesting.

@KnightDoc won't allow N=1 because I have N=1 examples for every scenario
Some Interviewers talk about things that are interesting to them but may have no impact on admissions outcome and atleast that helps you relax and do better with rest if the interview.

 

[KnightDoc]

@KnightDoc won't allow N=1 because I have N=1 examples for every scenario
Some Interviewers talk about things that are interesting to them but may have no impact on admissions outcome and atleast that helps you relax and do better with rest if the interview.

You misunderstand -- I allow it to your heart's content. I just don't think it has general value.

I'm sure for every @penguinsfan71 who parlayed a HS experience into a great interview and an A, there are literally hundreds of people for whom HS activities on a med school application became a one way ticket to the circular file. So, yeah, I'm glad it worked out for @penguinsfan71, but I don't anticipate mentioning my year as editor in chief of my HS newspaper as a leadership experience on my med school application. N=1!

 

[deleted1025488]

I did clinical research in high school and conducted a project that resulted in a publication regarding socioeconomic health disparities in treatment/outcomes of various injuries.

I'm definitely including it on my app. It shows I did clinical research and that internship where I studied health disparities was a big reason why I decided to go into medicine in the first place. Also since I have zero clinical research in college (I like basic science much more) so it would add some texture to my research. It also shows clinical experience in times where I don't have a lot due to COVID (but that's not the main point). Don't see how this could be a bad thing to include, in any scenario.

 

[kepler16b]

List it, it's fine

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I don't anticipate mentioning my year as editor in chief of my HS newspaper as a leadership experience on my med school application. N=1!

If you had similar activity in college you can mention your HS experiece.

 

[LizzyM]

I’m late to this party but I agree that publications regardless of year published should be included in an application.

Publications are not in the same bin as leadership experiences where post-high school leadership is much stronger than things done pre-adulthood.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Since LizzyM clarified, please lock the thread before @KnightDoc comes back

 

[KnightDoc]

Since LizzyM clarified, please lock the thread before @KnightDoc comes back

I already liked her post -- why are you picking on me??? Cyber bully!!!!!

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I already liked her post -- why are you picking on me??? Cyber bully!!!!!

Not cyber bullying, we want your input on other threads

 

[KnightDoc]

Not cyber bullying, we want your input on other threads

I think you know by now that I can multitask!