highest suicide rate?

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ejoseph

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Hey folks. I was shadowing my dentist the other day, and she was telling me that dentists have the highest suicide rate of any medical profession. I told her that I thought that was a myth, but she knows two dentists that went to her dental school that committed suicide. What could be the reasons of why dentists kill themselves? The only reason my dentist gave was that lots of dentists are perfectionists, and it eventually gets to them. But this seems too simplistic to me. Just when I think that I'd enjoy being a dentist, I hear about the suicide rate and I begin to have doubts. Let me know what you guys think.
 
i was just in a group meeting with my first year med/dent class and our group leader, a medical resident, said that 2 of his classmates committed suicide the first year of their residency. so stress is ubiquitous for health professionals.
 
i remember seeing an article in one of the dental magazines (i can't remember which) that concluded that the suicide rate in dentistry is the same as in the general public.
 
I did a quick search on Google and read the various pieces. It seems that the researchers in the '70s and '80s postulated that dentists have a high suicide rate because 1) they are looked down upon by the majority of other medical professionals (physicians) and 2) they have strained relationships to patients because nobody likes going to the dentist.

I think that's a load of baloney.

The dental profession is evolving. Dental students these days are taught to form constructive relationships to patients and heavily involve them in planning their treatment and educating them. And that does pay off-- Almost all of my sister's patients have a good relationship with her because she does a great job of restoring their dentition and function, particularly her implant patients, who are grateful for being able to enjoy things like steaks again (which they couldn't while wearing dentures!).

As far as being looked down upon by other medical professionals, my dad and my sister don't really give a damn. "Just wait until that heart surgeon gets a nice toothache and see who he runs crying to." (heh heh)

Seriously though, there are physicians in my family too (I have another older sister who is an anesthesiologist, and her hubby is one also. Plus a couple of cousins going through med school right now). Needless to say they don't put down dentists ( 😀 ) and neither do their colleagues (at least not the ones I've met at my brother-in-law's summer barbecues, when he invites pretty much the whole darn general surgery faculty from his hospital!).

Maybe I'm jaded by being in a family of dentists AND physicians (which is great for mutual support!)... But I know I will enjoy being a dentist!
 
As far as being looked down upon by other medical professionals, my dad and my sister don't really give a damn.


It looks like there's a jealousy problem running rampant among physicians.😀
 
heck, i am not surprised at all about the suicide rate.

i am not even in dental school and feel all the stress thanks to the waiting game that we are in.
 
yes, I am glad I m living in the 21st century.
 
Dentists do NOT have the highest suicide when classified by job professions.

That is nothing more than a rumor that has turned itself into a bit of urban myth. Here are some REAL facts with REAL data (I've added bolding to emphasize certain portions):

20-Apr-2001


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Dear Cecil:

I've always heard that dentists have the highest suicide level of any of the medical professions, but I've never believed it. Is there any truth to it? --Terey Allen, Trenton, Michigan

Cecil replies:

This is one of those dodgy things that "everybody knows." And not just the uninformed public, either--dentists themselves believe it. Since the 1960s dental journals have been carrying articles with headlines like "The Suicidal Professions." Dozens of studies have looked at suicide not only among dentists but among health-care workers in general. With few exceptions, research over the past 40 years has found that dentists (and doctors) take their own lives at a higher-than-average rate. But how much higher? To hear some tell it, you'd better not leave these guys in a room alone.

Dentists' odds of suicide "are 6.64 times greater than the rest of the working age population," writes researcher Steven Stack. "Dentists suffer from relatively low status within the medical profession and have strained relationships with their clients--few people enjoy going to the dentist." One study of Oregon dentists found that they had the highest suicide rate of any group investigated. A California study found that dentists were surpassed only by chemists and pharmacists. Of 22 occupations examined in Washington state, dentists had a suicide rate second only to that of sheepherders and wool workers.

But the sheer diversity of results has to make you suspicious. I mean, which is it--dentists, chemists and pharmacists, or sheepherders and wool workers? (What, the bleating gets to them?) And what about psychiatrists? One school of popular belief holds that they have the highest suicide rate.

Read the studies and you begin to see the problem. Suicide research is inherently a little flaky, in part because suicides are often concealed. Equally important from a statistical standpoint is the problem of small numbers: dentists represent only a small fraction of the total population, only a small fraction of them die in a given year, and only a small fraction of those that die are suicides. So you've got people drawing grand conclusions based on tiny samples. For example, I see where the Swedes think their male dentists have an elevated suicide rate. Number of male-dentist suicides on which this finding is based: 18.

But you aren't reading this column to hear me whine about the crummy data. You want the facts. Coming right up. All we need to do, for any occupation of interest, is (a) find a large, reasonably accurate source of mortality statistics, (b) compute suicides as a percentage of total deaths for said group, and (c) compare that percentage with some benchmark, like so:

PERCENTAGE OF DEATHS DUE TO SUICIDE
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1970): 1.5
U.S. white male dentists (1968-72): 2.0 (85 of 4,190)
U.S. white male medical doctors (1967-72): 3.0 (544 of 17,979)
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1990): 2.0
U.S. white male medical doctors (1984-95): 2.7 (379 of 13,790)

(Sources: Vital Statistics of the United States--1970, National Center for Health Statistics, Table 1-26, "Deaths from 281 Selected Causes, by Age, Race, and Sex: United States, 1970"; death certificates from 31 states, reported in "Mortality of Dentists, 1968 to 1972," Bureau of Economic Research and Statistics, Journal of the American Dental Association, January 1975, pp. 195ff; death reports collected by the American Medical Association, reported in "Suicide by Psychiatrists: A Study of Medical Specialists Among 18,730 Physician Deaths During a Five-Year Period, 1967-72," Rich et al., Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, August 1980, pp. 261ff.; Vital Statistics of the United States--1990, National Center for Health Statistics, Table 1-27, "Deaths from 282 Selected Causes, by 5-Year Age Groups, Race, and Sex: United States--1990"; National Occupational Mortality Surveillance database, reported in "Mortality Rates and Causes Among U.S. Physicians," Frank et al., American Journal of Preventive Medicine, Vol. 19, No. 3, 2000.

I know what you're thinking. Percentages! They're so primitive! What about the Poisson distribution, the chi-square test, the multivariate regression analysis? Not to mention the fact that I don't express suicides relative to 100,000 living population; that I haven't corrected for age distribution, socioeconomic status, etc; and that I couldn't find any current data for dentist mortality in the readily available literature. Sue me. We've got enough here to draw some basic conclusions.

Suicide among white male American dentists is higher than average but not as high as among white male American doctors. (Sorry to limit this to white men, but that's all the data I had to work with.) Don't fret, though. Dentists' death rates from other causes are lower, and on average they live several years longer than the general population. Ditto for doctors.

What's the most suicidal occupation? I won't venture an opinion for the world of work overall, but among health-care types it may well be shrinks. In a study of 18,730 physician deaths from 1967 to 1972 (men and women), psychiatrists accounted for 7 percent of the total but 12 percent of the 593 suicides (source: Rich et al., cited above).

Even more alarming is the rate of suicide among female doctors. A recent study found that 3.6 percent of white female doctors' deaths were suicides--higher than the rate for male doctors and many times the average for U.S. women (0.5 percent for 1990; source: Frank et al., cited above; Vital Statistics of the United States--1990). Women have entered medicine in huge numbers in recent decades, but progress has come at a price.

--CECIL ADAMS

SOURCES

Vital Statistics of the United States--1990, National Center for Health Statistics, Table 1-27, "Deaths from 282 Selected Causes, by 5-Year Age Groups, Race, and Sex: United States--1990."
 
If you think that you are prone to suicide maybe you need a less stressfull job like in the custodial arts or cleaning monkey poop at the local zoo!
 
Originally posted by UBTom
Seriously though, there are physicians in my family too (I have another older sister who is an anesthesiologist, and her hubby is one also. Plus a couple of cousins going through med school right now). Needless to say they don't put down dentists ( 😀 ) and neither do their colleagues (at least not the ones I've met at my brother-in-law's summer barbecues, when he invites pretty much the whole darn general surgery faculty from his hospital!).
How is your doctor sister's life compared to the dentist sister's? Are they both equally happy in their decisions?
 
Yesterday we had a seminar on drug and alcohol abuse in the profession. It was really interesting to see that many doctors/dentists develop these problems later in life. It has been shown that the type of person who becomes a professional is driven and determined. This type of person is also more likely to develop addictive behavior. Not in every case, but in general this is true. I think about myself and I am a very addictive sort of person. Just look how much I check this board.

This doesn't necessarily relate to suicide, but in a way it does. The speaker at the seminar related several stories about professionals commiting suicide. Most professionals are generally a little more prideful than the general public. When they can't conquer their addictions to drugs/alcohol it affects their self image in a huge way. Some people would rather commit suicide than admit they have failed in solving their abuse problem. It can be hard for some people to realize they are not the best in everything.
 
i will commit suicide if MIN doesn't get my TOEFL scores by next week. i took this this 1 1/2 months ago and were told that MIN will get it in 2 weeks.
apparently, thats not the case. to make it better, TOEFL customer service sucks and you have to wait for an hr b4 someone answers your call. they said they'll send it again. yeah thanks a lot.😡 😡 😡 😡
 
to NDBeast:

Both of my sisters do enjoy what they do professionally.. Which also allows them to live an enjoyable lifestyle. They both take 3 vacations a year at exotic destinations, live comfortable lives, have time to take proper care of themselves (health club at least 3 times a week), and in the case of my older sister, have the time to take care of two young kids (for which she has a full-time live-in nanny to make things a LOT easier). You can guess that her two kids (3-year-old girl and 1-year-old boy) are going to live very sheltered lives. 😀

My older sister did have to go through a lot more frustration to get to where she is now though. She did a 3-year residency for anesthesiology at Mount Sinai in NYC and to hear her describe it, it did not sound like a pleasant experience. Long hours and plenty of headaches, lots of workplace politics and personality/methodology clashes with the other physicians and surgeons, etc.

My younger sister went through the 1-year GPR residency at Bellevue Hospital back when they still had the program. She had a pleasant experience, but I suspect that's because 1) the dental department did their own thing and the physicians pretty much left them alone, 2) the dental department was small and the residency program short so there is a minimum of workplace politics and backbiting, and 3) my sister already knew the people there and are on good terms with them, since she went to dental school across the street (NYUCD) and went there frequently for OMFS and Peds rotations. Then again, maybe Bellevue's dental department is just a good place to work at, because I didn't know anyone there but the OMFS Dept still treated me like family when I went there for my 3-week summer externship.

Both my sisters are satisfied with their lives and the paths they have chosen, but after seeing what my older sister went through I'm convinced dentistry is for me. 😉

As far as the theory that dentists tend to be perfectionists and it might drive some to suicide... I wouldn't put too much stock in that either. I think most dentists are realists these days-- After all, we extract teeth when we deem them hopeless (unrestorable or periodontally unsound). Not even the most anal-retentive dentists would attempt "heroic dentistry" and try to restore someone with a full mouth of broken-down teeth if we know the patient is not going to put out the effort to maintain his dental health-- He'd just end up with a full mouth of broken-down fillings and crowns and somehow end up blaming the dentist for his own failings in oral health maintenance. Rather than doing "super-pretty/ideal" dentistry, in such cases we'd yank them all and slap in a set of dentures and be done with it, LOL.

Now if I can just survive for the next 9 months and fulfill all the stupid convoluted requirements for graduation AND pass the licensing exam, I can start enjoying life like my sisters do..
 
The highest suicide rate should be of engineers.

First of all, they don't get jobs. Even if they find jobs, they get laid off after 5 years. I knew this guy from Silicon Valley, who shot himself in the parking lot after getting laid off.

ULTRON
 
In Seattle 50,000 aerospace workers (mostly engineers or
technical types) were laid off by Boeing definately felt the same
way as the silicon valley engineer. I agree with Ultron...
Engineers are at the top on the list...+pissed+
 
So to be mentally healthy.
Make sure that predental people like working as a dentist.
And get a life besides work to balance our stress.
i do believe that short-term difficulties will happen eventually such as laid off, but it is important to work thru hardship.
i can say that because my resesarch lab recently runs out of money and i have to be laid off and working as a minimum wage to finish my project.

If our economy is doing this bad or worse,
not that many people can afford to restore their teeth,
which means less income/demand for dentists.
 
That's okay... You can still do exodontia or endodontics (endo in particular is very lucrative)-- People WILL still get toothaches regardless of how the economy is doing! 😀
 
I have a friend who told me he just discussed a study in an undergrad class that dentists have the worst social stigma of any profession, surpassing tax collectors. I really though this image was changing, and dentists were beginning to be looked at more favorably. Anyways, won't change my decision, just wanted to share the info.
 
Originally posted by KDBuff
I have a friend who told me he just discussed a study in an undergrad class that dentists have the worst social stigma of any profession, surpassing tax collectors. I really though this image was changing, and dentists were beginning to be looked at more favorably. Anyways, won't change my decision, just wanted to share the info.

Naw, I would think dentists would at least rank higher than blood-sucking lawyers! :laugh:
 
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