Hijabs in the OR

[smq123]

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See thats not how it is at our hospital. I go to OB's OR like 2-3 times a day when I work and we are only required to wear caps and shoe coverings. No masks necessary. We are a magnet hospital btw, its weird..

You don't need to wear a mask even when they're operating? 😕 I find that a little weird. If they're not operating, and sterile stuff is not lying out, unwrapped, then no - you don't need a mask.

What is a "magnet" hospital, by the way?

 

[pakbabydoll]

You don't need to wear a mask even when they're operating? 😕 I find that a little weird. If they're not operating, and sterile stuff is not lying out, unwrapped, then no - you don't need a mask.

What is a "magnet" hospital, by the way?

not when they are operating, but when stuff is there. I usually get them the pain meds, epidural, starter kits, and normal stuff.

Magnet status is an award given by the American Nurses’ Credentialing Center (ANCC), an affiliate of the American Nurses Association, to hospitals that satisfy a set of criteria designed to measure the strength and quality of their nursing. A Magnet hospital is stated to be one where nursing delivers excellent patient outcomes, where nurses have a high level of job satisfaction, and where there is a low staff nurse turnover rate and appropriate grievance resolution.

http://www.nursingadvocacy.org/faq/magnet.html

 

[njbmd]

I know this is a powder keg, but I have to ask.

First off, I'll preface that I don't claim to be culturally knowledgeable about Islam and/or Arabic culture. My impression is that Hijab is the Arabic word for the Islamic tradition of wearing a scarf over one's head. If I'm wrong, please do correct me.

I've seen women in OR's wearing (what I assume to be) hijabs. Are these sterile? They don't look disposable - but I know some surgeons prefer non-disposable scrub caps that they have washed on site.

Hopefully someone that knows what they're talking about will chime in. In the meantime, I don't know what the requirements are - but do know that the cap/mask/scrubs do not cover enough.

Many women who wear the hi jab are able to wear a hood over their hi jab in the OR. The disposable hoods cover everything except the face which can then be covered by a mask. Gentleman who have beards and women who have extremely long hair will often wear a disposable hood.

What a PITA to keep sterile, though.

Scrub caps are not sterile. They do need to be very clean. Most of us who wear non-disposable scrub caps launder them regularly. Believe me, I do not wish to subject my patients to anything that would increase infection. I am very careful to be sure that my hair is completely under my scrub cap and that my mouth and nose are completely covered by my mask. I have asked OR personnel to leave my OR who have not completely covered their hair with either a disposable or non-disposable but clean scrub hat/cap or who are not otherwise properly attired.

Usually the circulating/ scrub nurse/tech are very good at making sure everyone is properly covered and will assist any students with what is needed.

 

[smq123]

not when they are operating, but when stuff is there. I usually get them the pain meds, epidural, starter kits, and normal stuff.

Oh - if you are going into an OR when they are NOT operating, then you probably don't have to wear a mask.

If you go into an OR when there is STERILE stuff out in the open (i.e. blue drapes are on the table, sterile gowns are out of their package), then you should wear a mask, but some people don't observe this rule very strictly.

 

[farks23]

No, neither of you seem to really understand how most ORs are run.

What the anesthesiologists do is up to them. They can wear cloth, non-disposable scrub caps that they brought in from the outside, because they're not standing next to the patient during the operation. They're either at the patient's feet (in an ENT case) or behind a sterile drape.

Just because the anesthesiologist's newspaper "isn't sterile" doesn't mean squat for you, the med student on your surgery rotation, or for you, the surgical resident. He's hiding behind a sterile drape - sterility doesn't matter. But you're on the sterile side of the drape, and it DOES matter.

What the surgeons wear DOES matter. If you're operating, you should not wear a cloth cap. If you do, it should be covered by a disposable cap that is provided by the hospital.

IF YOU ARE ENTERING THE OR, YOU SHOULD NOT - I repeat, NOT - BE WEARING A LONG-SLEEVED SHIRT UNDER YOUR SCRUBS!!! It is NOT sterile technique, and you will get thrown out of the OR to go change. Med students have gotten thrown out for wearing t-shirts/tank tops under their scrubs.

YOU SHOULD ALSO NOT WEAR SCRUBS STOLEN FROM AN OUTSIDE HOSPITAL. Hospitals issue scrubs that are only one color. Anybody wearing scrubs of a different color (i.e. were clearly gotten from outside the hospital) will be told to leave the OR and go change - no exceptions. Not even for attendings!

There are no such things as "sterile scrubs." Yes, you technically cover everything up with a sterile gown, but still, scrubs should not be taken out of the hospital. No, I know that everyone takes their scrubs outside of the hospital. But what your resident can get away with, and what you can get away with, are 2 different things.

OP - I honestly have no idea what they would do about someone who insisted (for religious reasons) on wearing a scarf in the OR. What would most likely happen is that the charge nurse would have to contact the company that provides the hospital with scrubs. That company would have to provide head coverings (made of the same material as the scrubs) for that individual. That would be the only head covering "allowed" in the OR. I'm guessing.

WoW... You seem ready for practice! Your qualitative observation should not go un-noticed!

Furthermore... you are presenting this scenario as if has never occurred or is something alien to our pragmatic nation. I am sure many physicians observe the headscarve, though your questions are interesting, I believe only physicians can answer them

But a good discussion none the less

 

[Piyush]

What about sikh men who wear turbans, and usually have -relatively large- beards?

Piyush.

 

[smq123]

WoW... You seem ready for practice! Your qualitative observation should not go un-noticed!

No, I've just had it beaten into me by half-a-dozen different scrub techs and charge nurses. 😡

 

[Flopotomist]

After reading this thread, I became so curious that I asked a few of my friends in the Muslim student group on campus, and here is what I learned:

1. The hijab itself is not a requirement - it is the modesty that is the requirement.

2. The modesty can be accomplished with any appropriate covering.

3. Taking two scrub tops (wearing one forwards, and one backwards) covers the chest area that is normally exposed.

4. Wearing the "male" hair covering cap with a "female" hair net covering that and the ears covers the hair.

5. Using a pair of scrub pants as a "scarf" tucked into the scrub top covers any remaining exposed neck.

I was pretty impressed at how clever it all was!

 

[ninnevah]

im muslim
and im an intern at the moment

about wearing a scarf in the OT, its not as complex as it sounds.

Two of the previous hospitals i attended for rotations had a scrub scarf available, basically a triangle piece of cloth made out of the same material as scrubs, so that would cover the hair and neck, then the usual head cap and face mask over it.

The hospital im at now dont have so many muslim female doctors, but ive seen a resident bring her own light headscarf, which she wears only in the o.t, tucks the ends into the scrub top and the cap and mask over it...

As for me, i use to wear about 3 caps so its not so transparent and then just take out the elastic part of one to use to cover the rest of my neck and the v neck part of the scrub top...but i think ill be buying my own little scarf soon, seems more practical.

 

[Premed04]

When I shadowed a doctor and I followed her into the OR, they let me wear my hijab and tuck it into my shirt. Then I wore one of those hospital caps over it and then it was as if my neck was showing, except the neck was covered with my hijab. Really, if you have the hospital cap over your hijab then I see nothing wrong with allowing it into the hospital room.

 

[RosesRainbows]

Flopotomist-- Hijab is required, it's pretty much a unanimous ruling among scholars, although individual Muslims do not necessarily follow it or believe it. But, it's irrelevant whether hijab is required or not. What's important is that it's a large and important component of a Muslim woman's clothing. It's not our job to interpret religions for people and tell them, "You can't wear hijab, even if it's sterilized, into the operating room, your religion doesn't require it."

A surgical cap, even if it is not translucent, is not sufficient for meeting the rules of hijab. Only the face and hands are allowed to show with hijab. A surgical cap does not cover the neck.

A triangular piece of cloth can easily be provided by the hospital. Cloth can be autoclaved. It's not that hard. Really. All they have to do is throw in an additional triangular piece of cloth into the autoclave machine with the pants and the top.

5. Using a pair of scrub pants as a "scarf" tucked into the scrub top covers any remaining exposed neck.

Good idea, I will try that.

 

[MystA RavE]

At the risk of being mistaken for a teenage mutant ninja turtle, theres this...

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8682/burkastylegownap8.jpg

 

[tf2medic]

haha why is this so hard to understand...
they can cover their hair and neck many different ways. they don't have to wear a hijab into the OR. it could be something as simple as wear a hoodie that's only used for the OR and just throw the hoodie part up and use the ties to tie it real tight so only the faces shows. there's toonnns of different ways to go about it.

the muslim women in this thread have already given many different ways as well. i like that idea of having a special OR hijab tho...i wanna see that haha

 

[RosesRainbows]

You're right, they don't necessarily have to wear a traditional scarf to be wearing hijab. (I'm sure this is what you meant, but for clarification for people who may not know this: if they used a hoodie to cover up the essential areas, then that still qualifies as "hijab".)

 

[berkeleyvala]

What about sikh men who wear turbans, and usually have -relatively large- beards?

Piyush.

Face-mask for the beard, and usually just a regular operating cap (sans turban) for the head.

 

[kma83]

Hijabis are cool...

 

[chemsmith]

I know this is a powder keg, but I have to ask.

First off, I'll preface that I don't claim to be culturally knowledgeable about Islam and/or Arabic culture. My impression is that Hijab is the Arabic word for the Islamic tradition of wearing a scarf over one's head. If I'm wrong, please do correct me.

I've seen women in OR's wearing (what I assume to be) hijabs. Are these sterile? They don't look disposable - but I know some surgeons prefer non-disposable scrub caps that they have washed on site.

"powder keg"?

way to be culturally sensitive there




jk