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You run a hedge fund and your salary gets treated as capital gains and taxed at 15%?

I just want to point out that the long-term capital gains tax rate has already been increased from 15% to 20% in the >$464k married tax bracket since 2013.

The Net Investment Income Tax (Obamacare tax) also started in 2013 and is 3.8% on investment income >$250k married. (The $250k level is also NOT indexed for inflation so it will probably hit some dual high-income households like 2 x RPh now or in the next few years.)

So these two tax increases taken together increase the marginal rate from 15% to 23.8% on investment income.

Other than that, carry on...

 

[Old Timer]

Exactly.

Nonsense. Maybe at Red Robin is this true. How many McDonalds, Wendy's, Burger King employees get tips? Zero. Fast-food workers are not being paid like waiters and waitresses at chain restaurants where tipping is allowed.

You'll likely balk on reading this and deem it conservative hogwash but this is a study of fast-food prices when you increase minimum wage for entry level workers - http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/09/higher-fast-food-wages-higher-fast-food-prices


The same kid you just handed a wage increase to now has to pay more for the same meal he used to order on break with a lower hourly wage. It doesn't take a Nobel Prize in Economics to understand that if you pay the workforce more, then you in turn have to charge more for the products/food. The corporation or business isn't going to take a cut in its bottom line for the welfare of the entry level workers.

I have no problem with that. If it's a part timer working 20 hrs/wk or a full timer working 40 hours/wk they are not going to use all of their extra money at Mickey D's. Some of that will be paid by me and you and I am ok with that. If a happy meal costs $3.99 instead of $2.99, I'll gladly pay the extra buck if it means somebody else has a better life

Again, if we're talking about moral imperative, then I understand your point. There are people working for minimum wage and that's all they can earn. I don't disagree with that. But if you raise the minimum wage to $10/hour, then the guy who is making $13/hour certainly has less spending power and he worked his ass off to get from $7.50 to $13. Now his spending power has slightly decreased and that $13/hour isn't spreading too far as it is.

A wage increase absolutely affects the prices of goods. Again, not all businesses are going to just accept the wage increase as good moral sense and not do anything to adjust their lack of revenue. Then the guy barely making above the federal minimum is worse off than before. Then we get into a discussion about making it $20/hour and the guy making $22/hour who went to college has almost identical spending power to the 17 year-old Taco Bell worker.

I don't dispute that some prices will rise. He won't be worse off than before. Not every interaction he has will be covered by minimum wage workers so he will not loose all of what he gains. The price increase will be borne by everyone.

Elizabeth Warren suggested making the minimum wage $20/hour. Imagine having a degree in art history and being an assistant manager at a Kinko's or something. And you have a decent living making $21/hour. Then a progressive idea is adopted to change the bare minimum to $20/hour. The guy with a wife, child, and dog is now making only a dollar more per hour than Suzy down the road who is 16 and a sophomore in high school.

Maybe in Tennessee, but where I live you can't support a family on $21.00 per hour unless the the other partner works. And, please don't ask me to answer for Elizabeth Warren. I won't ask you to answer for Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachman. Leave the kooks out of it.

 

[SClENCE]

Yeah but if you increase minimum wage prices of more than just fast food goes up. Prices of everything will go up. Cost of living goes up. That fast food worker not only pays more for his burger on lunch break, but also for groceries, fuel, rent, car, house... everything. Every worker who processes and packages food is paid more so the price of these products goes up. Wal-Mart pays workers more to stock and sell these items so the prices goes up again. Everyone is making $15 dollar an hour so there is more competition for a slightly nicer apartment - prices goes up. You get the point.

At the end of the day the fast food worker is left only in a slightly better position. Meanwhile the Pharmacist at CVS gets screwed when his salary remains the same and cost of living goes up. It's merely another method of redistributing wealth.

In addition, prices of American products rise putting us at a disadvantage on the international market. More money flowing out of the USA and less flowing in - I think we can all agree that this is not good for any American.

 

[Old Timer]

Yeah but if you increase minimum wage prices of more than just fast food goes up. Prices of everything will go up. Cost of living goes up. That fast food worker not only pays more for his burger on lunch break, but also for groceries, fuel, rent, car, house... everything. Every worker who processes and packages food is paid more so the price of these products goes up. Wal-Mart pays workers more to stock and sell these items so the prices goes up again. Everyone is making $15 dollar an hour so there is more competition for a slightly nicer apartment - prices goes up. You get the point.

At the end of the day the fast food worker is left only in a slightly better position. Meanwhile the Pharmacist at CVS gets screwed when his salary remains the same and cost of living goes up. It's merely another method of redistributing wealth.

In addition, prices of American products rise putting us at a disadvantage on the international market. More money flowing out of the USA and less flowing in - I think we can all agree that this is not good for any American.

Really, you buy that tripe. If you do, you are stepford. Programmed to repeat what you are told. If it has that much of an effect then there are too many low wage workers or the companies are screwing the public since they are raising the prices more than they are paying in wages. Not every industry has minimum wage workers. Won't effect construction costs, automobile costs. Walmart is raising the minimum wage on it's own. This only happens in your mind. When the minimum wage increased in 2009, was there any change in inflation? No. There are 29 states that have a higher minimum wage than the Federal law. Do they have higher inflation, NO. You just spout talking points, disregard analogies and generally repeat yourself like a tape recorder. You could press events for the RNC

It's real cool of the pharmacists making $55-$75 per hour to tell the burger flipper that he is better off at $7.25. If he makes more prices will rice and he will be worse off.

 

[PharmacistReb]

Really, you buy that tripe. If you do, you are stepford. Programmed to repeat what you are told. If it has that much of an effect then there are too many low wage workers or the companies are screwing the public since they are raising the prices more than they are paying in wages. Not every industry has minimum wage workers. Won't effect construction costs, automobile costs. Walmart is raising the minimum wage on it's own. This only happens in your mind. When the minimum wage increased in 2009, was there any change in inflation? No. There are 29 states that have a higher minimum wage than the Federal law. Do they have higher inflation, NO. You just spout talking points, disregard analogies and generally repeat yourself like a tape recorder. You could press events for the RNC

It's real cool of the pharmacists making $55-$75 per hour to tell the burger flipper that he is better off at $7.25. If he makes more prices will rice and he will be worse off.

I love someone from the left telling someone from the right they are espousing talking points. Sure sure sure, because your views are as pure as the wind-driven snow and you're not repeating what Chris Matthews or Rachel Maddow tells you to say. All of this is your own, organically-derived thought process....

Puhlease, sir. Spare us the lecture. You are as ideologically-positioned as any one person in this thread. The hyperbolic nonsense you are throwing around doesn't help your argument. Nobody enjoys your poorly-placed saracasm.

You go about your merry way and vote for Hillary Rodham. We'll do our thing.

 

[PharmacistReb]

Maybe in Tennessee, but where I live you can't support a family on $21.00 per hour unless the the other partner works. And, please don't ask me to answer for Elizabeth Warren. I won't ask you to answer for Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachman. Leave the kooks out of it.

I found something that we agree on. These three belong in the kook category.

 

[PharmacistReb]

Really, you buy that tripe. If you do, you are stepford. Programmed to repeat what you are told. If it has that much of an effect then there are too many low wage workers or the companies are screwing the public since they are raising the prices more than they are paying in wages. Not every industry has minimum wage workers. Won't effect construction costs, automobile costs. Walmart is raising the minimum wage on it's own. This only happens in your mind. When the minimum wage increased in 2009, was there any change in inflation? No. There are 29 states that have a higher minimum wage than the Federal law. Do they have higher inflation, NO. You just spout talking points, disregard analogies and generally repeat yourself like a tape recorder. You could press events for the RNC

It's real cool of the pharmacists making $55-$75 per hour to tell the burger flipper that he is better off at $7.25. If he makes more prices will rice and he will be worse off.

This, for the most point, contains many valuable points. Very small, incremental changes in the minimum wage don't typically affect the economy-at-large because most workers do not make minimum wage. There is a notion on the left that major cities are full of nothing but minimum wage workers who are dying because they make $7.25 an hour. Which is patently untrue because most people make more than $7.25/hour.

If this is the argument you're making, then it has nothing to do with economics. This is a moral imperative issue and why we're discussing it in the context of economics, I do not know. It would be nice if you would just come out and say that you want this because it's good for a small minority percentage of people that live on the minimum wage.

It's absurd to state, though, that it doesn't affect some small businesses. If Billy Bob in Bucksnort, TN (actual place) owns a hardware store and employs 60 hours/week of minimum wage work to local high school kids, then he spends about $23,000 in very low-skill, entry level work if you go on a minimum wage of $7.25/hr. If President Obama or Mrs. Clinton signs a minimum wage bill into law that increases the minimum wage to $10.50/hr, then Billy Bob incurs an extra $10,000 yearly in payroll expenditures for high school clerks and stockers.

Now, you may look at my above example and scoff and think that $10 grand is a drop in the bucket or that big corporations are able to pay that, no problem. But if you think $10grand/year is a drop in the bucket for a small business, then you are simply wrong. A lot of small businesses would be hit hard by such an increase. The companies that pay people minimum wage would absolutely be affected by this. The Googles and the Apples of the world don't pay people minimum wage anyway, so this won't affect them. But I live in small town TN. I go to little stores and businesses all the time that would have to cut that entry-level job if it meant $10k more in payroll expenditures.

You have to take off the liberal shades for a second and realize that not all businesses are GE or Disney or Google with a backroom full of unused capital. And keep in mind that those businesses are paying most of their people way more than minimum wage anyway so they don't care either way.

 

[PharmacistReb]

Not every industry has minimum wage workers. Won't effect construction costs, automobile costs. Walmart is raising the minimum wage on it's own. This only happens in your mind. When the minimum wage increased in 2009, was there any change in inflation? No. There are 29 states that have a higher minimum wage than the Federal law. Do they have higher inflation, NO. You just spout talking points, disregard analogies and generally repeat yourself like a tape recorder. You could press events for the RNC

It seems a bit hypocritical to state how few people make minimum wage when it was you who first brought minimum wage up as a means of somehow revving up the economy. The only way it revs up the economy is if a wide swath of America is on minimum wage. But then you say all of this -- which is actually quite accurate. It's just counter to your original statements.

 

[SClENCE]

Old Timer believes in redistribution of wealth purely on moral grounds which he can't defend with an economic argument - As PharmacistReb has already pointed out. That all this discussion is.

To adopt this line of thinking, one must discredit the very principles that the country was founded on and want to penalize economic success/innovation.

Of course you can't make a living working at McDonald's, but who says you are supposed to be able to? It's a part time job - not a career.

 

[Dred Pirate]

A massive jump in the minimum wage is likely not the answer - if you double it, the small mom and pop shops feel a pinch - I think regular increases at the rate of inflation is best for all. (or maybe slightly higher to get "caught up").
We need a way to differential between the people supporting their family on these wages, and those that are the teens who just have a job because their parents made them. If you said "18 and under get wage x and those 18 and older get wage X +5$ - you instantly will see more younger people hired and less people who are actually supporting themselves" - this is not good.
I think the best way to do this is to use the earned income credit (and this is coming from a fiscal conservative such as myself) for those that cannot be claimed as a dependent.

Hell - even Warren Buffet - a champion for the liberal side agrees a massive jump in the minimum wage will do more harm.

 

[SClENCE]

What is fair market value? The lowest hourly wage that a company can offer while still filling the positions. If a company is offering lower than fair market value they won't fill the positions and will not do any business. It's not complicated. If you want to jack up the wage you don't believe in free market economics and probably have no understanding of economics in general.

 

[Dred Pirate]

What is fair market value? The lowest hourly wage that a company can offer while still filling the positions. If a company is offering lower than fair market value they won't fill the positions and will not do any business. It's not complicated. If you want to jack up the wage you don't believe in free market economics and probably have no understanding of economics in general.

that is a very libertarian model - and although I am a registered libertarian - at some point if you do that - you depress salaries and almost make an indentured servitude type model because it gets to a point where some people will take anything they can get because they are so desperate - you need a floor to prevent exploitation.

 

[owlegrad]

I like the part where if you don't agree, you must not understand economics. I also assume that when people disagree with me it is because they don't understand the issue.

 

[Rouelle]

I like the part where if you don't agree, you must not understand economics. I also assume that when people disagree with me it is because they don't understand the issue.

Isn't that the hallmark feature of politics...that those who disagree with us are obviously stupid?

 

[Old Timer]

What is fair market value? The lowest hourly wage that a company can offer while still filling the positions. If a company is offering lower than fair market value they won't fill the positions and will not do any business. It's not complicated. If you want to jack up the wage you don't believe in free market economics and probably have no understanding of economics in general.

Keep that in mind when you graduate from pharmacy school and get an offer for $30.00 per hour. You understand economics fine and human nature not at all. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me stupid. If you think at your advanced age you have all the answers, well life will surely have some surprises for you. Typical of someone of your life experience. Can't see the forest for the trees. Knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

 

[Old Timer]

It seems a bit hypocritical to state how few people make minimum wage when it was you who first brought minimum wage up as a means of somehow revving up the economy. The only way it revs up the economy is if a wide swath of America is on minimum wage. But then you say all of this -- which is actually quite accurate. It's just counter to your original statements.

Listen, we found many things to agree on:

• The Minimum wage should be raised on moral grounds.
• Tax cuts for the middle class would stimulate the economy
• Elizabeth Warren, Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman are all nuts
• The economy is suffering from a lack of demand.
• Krugman is right the deficit does not matter right now. That doesn't mean it doesn't matter at all.

But don't twist what I say. I said there are not enough minimum wage workers that increasing the minimum wage to $10.00 would not be inflationary. I still maintain that those workers would probably spend ALL of that money, while a gozillionaire would not spend it. It's all about doing EVERYTHING to increase demand. Just because increasing the minimum wage by itself would not stimulate enough demand to cause inflation, does not mean it would not cause any economic stimulation. It's not counter to my original statement. It's called nuance. The world is not black and white. There are shades of gray.

 

[Old Timer]

What is fair market value? The lowest hourly wage that a company can offer while still filling the positions. If a company is offering lower than fair market value they won't fill the positions and will not do any business. It's not complicated. If you want to jack up the wage you don't believe in free market economics and probably have no understanding of economics in general.

This, for the most point, contains many valuable points. Very small, incremental changes in the minimum wage don't typically affect the economy-at-large because most workers do not make minimum wage. There is a notion on the left that major cities are full of nothing but minimum wage workers who are dying because they make $7.25 an hour. Which is patently untrue because most people make more than $7.25/hour.

If this is the argument you're making, then it has nothing to do with economics. This is a moral imperative issue and why we're discussing it in the context of economics, I do not know. It would be nice if you would just come out and say that you want this because it's good for a small minority percentage of people that live on the minimum wage.

It's absurd to state, though, that it doesn't affect some small businesses. If Billy Bob in Bucksnort, TN (actual place) owns a hardware store and employs 60 hours/week of minimum wage work to local high school kids, then he spends about $23,000 in very low-skill, entry level work if you go on a minimum wage of $7.25/hr. If President Obama or Mrs. Clinton signs a minimum wage bill into law that increases the minimum wage to $10.50/hr, then Billy Bob incurs an extra $10,000 yearly in payroll expenditures for high school clerks and stockers.

Now, you may look at my above example and scoff and think that $10 grand is a drop in the bucket or that big corporations are able to pay that, no problem. But if you think $10grand/year is a drop in the bucket for a small business, then you are simply wrong. A lot of small businesses would be hit hard by such an increase. The companies that pay people minimum wage would absolutely be affected by this. The Googles and the Apples of the world don't pay people minimum wage anyway, so this won't affect them. But I live in small town TN. I go to little stores and businesses all the time that would have to cut that entry-level job if it meant $10k more in payroll expenditures.

You have to take off the liberal shades for a second and realize that not all businesses are GE or Disney or Google with a backroom full of unused capital. And keep in mind that those businesses are paying most of their people way more than minimum wage anyway so they don't care either way.

If Billy Bob in Bucksnort Tennessee doesn't see that that 10K will not bankrupt him and if it did , he was out of business anyway. But what Billy Bob doesn't understand if his workers and other minimum wage workers don't have enough money to buy his hardware, he'll be a greeter at home depot in no time.

At the present time there are people who war working full time at minimum wage and that should not be acceptable. If you want to compromise and have a student minimum wage that's lower. I would live with that.

I reiterate, when you are in an economic situation with depressed consumer demand, ANYTHING you do will help. If your basement is flooded and some of your friends are using a sump pump and some are using buckets, they are all removing the water. The sump pump may be better, but it doesn't mean those with buckets should stay home and do nothing. So I have no problems with tax cuts, rebates, credits, etc. I also have no problem with the minimum wage increase. It will help, it won't really hurt and it's the right thing to do. That's called a win win

 

[SClENCE]

It doesn't matter if you can make a living or not with the wage, it's fair market value. If you think your time is worth more than get another job.

 

[PharmacistReb]

If Billy Bob in Bucksnort Tennessee doesn't see that that 10K will not bankrupt him and if it did , he was out of business anyway. But what Billy Bob doesn't understand if his workers and other minimum wage workers don't have enough money to buy his hardware, he'll be a greeter at home depot in no time.

You're just making assumptions for all business owners with this. $10k isn't going to bankrupt him. I never implied that. What I am saying is that Billy Bob would spend the $10k himself or he would continue to pay his worker(s). If that money that the business creator has made for himself is now being shunted to an entry level worker, then how is the economy stimulated? It's a zero sum game when it comes to minimum wage in small businesses. Billy Bob loses $10k and he and his wife of 40 years don't have the funds to make that beach trip with the family. The high school kids get the remainder of the $10k and spend it on a new sound system for their pickup truck and other such frivolous items. Well, then you just have a wash.

I know it's an elementary example but that's what it does. There are tens of thousands of businesses just like that example. $10k for a small clothing boutique in Ruralville America that employ 3 or 4 college girls on minimum wage is going to cause the business owner a setback. Not all small business people are bringing in $140k like all of us on this board. If a husband runs a lawn service and the wife runs a boutique and $10k is suddenly shunted to the 4 college girls who help run the register and fold clothes, then that's a serious setback.

I just do not believe in the federal government mandating $10/hour just for the sake of morality. As you said, people in places where you live can barely live on $21/hour. If that's the case, and it's a morality stand, then shouldn't we increase the wage to $20/hr or more? $10/hour is not what most people make. Increasing minimum wage is basically a tax on small business in the name of morality. Entry level workers are exactly that. Entry level.

Those people making minimum wage who work full time receive plenty of assistance from the government as it is and I support those programs. There's a study, and I'll try to find it, that showed how minimum wage increases for people who work full-time can actually decrease government aid so much that an individual or family will actually make less after wage hikes. And again, if this is the case, then you're absolutely doing nothing to jump start the economy. You are hurting the small businessman and you're actually taking more government aid from the worker.

 

[SClENCE]

Without Billy Bob having the 10k he isn't as likely to hire more workers/expand the business either - Though I'm not so sure it is facts or common sense/basic economic principles that you are concerned about. Rather a moral principle that you attempt to back with a non-existent economic argument.

 

[BenJammin]

Why is that the problem of businesses that people cannot support themselves on the federal minimum wage? Hard to feel any sympathy for the single mother of 3 who has to battle with visitation with 3 fathers and cannot afford rent. That is the lifestyle you chose! In this country you are so free that you can chose to live like that. Why is that my problem? If you want to increase the minimum wage then go ahead but understand that businesses will do what they must to control costs.

What cracks me up is liberal America who says to the intern making $15.50/hr at Walgreens that their pay will increase if the minimum wage goes to $15/hr. That's called inflation and would just bring you back to where you started. What's the purpose of raising the minimum wage if the $7.25 today will have the same buying power as $15 next year?

 

[SClENCE]

Why is that the problem of businesses that people cannot support themselves on the federal minimum wage? Hard to feel any sympathy for the single mother of 3 who has to battle with visitation with 3 fathers and cannot afford rent. That is the lifestyle you chose! In this country you are so free that you can chose to live like that. Why is that my problem? If you want to increase the minimum wage then go ahead but understand that businesses will do what they must to control costs.

What cracks me up is liberal America who says to the intern making $15.50/hr at Walgreens that their pay will increase if the minimum wage goes to $15/hr. That's called inflation and would just bring you back to where you started. What's the purpose of raising the minimum wage if the $7.25 today will have the same buying power as $15 next year?

The single mother with 3 children doesn't understand this. All she sees is the potential of doubling her income. Anyone opposing this is an evil corporation that is standing between her and the wage that she believes she is entitled to.

Then you have people like Old Timer... who probably means well but lacks a basic understanding of macro economics.

I am not in support of redistributing wealth, but if you want to do it don't raise the minimum wage and increase the cost of living for the entire country while hindering economic growth and job creation at the same time.

 

[deleted158872]

Apple tax dodge=$74 billion.
Total tuition at public colleges=$60 billion.
Source (Apple tax dodge): http://bloom.bg/1H7NMLI
Source (cost of college): http://theatln.tc/1kuBXWC

 

[deleted158872]

Hillary has been parroting everything that Bernie Sanders has said in the past few months. Everything he said, she spouted it... five days later. Except, he's authentic as he has stood firmly by his principles his entire life; she's not. Hillary has been willing to say anything she thinks you want to hear 🙄 The fact that she's even pretending to be progressive is an insult to our (voters like me) intelligence.

 

[FarmD711]

Apple tax dodge=$74 billion.
Total tuition at public colleges=$60 billion.
Source (Apple tax dodge): http://bloom.bg/1H7NMLI
Source (cost of college): http://theatln.tc/1kuBXWC

Not that I agree with the tax dodge. But this is what annoys me about politics. You are lying by leaving out information.

Your flashy little picture says EVERY US college student. Your link (much less likely to be read...) says attending public colleges. This is a significant difference. I don't need a meme to break down and conceal information.

You take the time to notate public in the description of your link...so why not be truthful in the meme too? Because you are appealing to the emotional side of the brain vs the logical one.

 

[BenJammin]

Even if Apple did so, I would not support them using that money to pay for everyone's education. That is completely messed up.

 

[PharmacistReb]

I would love to see us close corporate loopholes and I'm conservative. These corporations either put money overseas or they find ways to dodge taxes because we tax corporations higher than any other nation on earth.

The United States has a trillion dollars in American dollars tied up overseas because companies do not want all that taxable capital over here.

 

[Old Timer]

I would love to see us close corporate loopholes and I'm conservative. These corporations either put money overseas or they find ways to dodge taxes because we tax corporations higher than any other nation on earth.

The United States has a trillion dollars in American dollars tied up overseas because companies do not want all that taxable capital over here.

Something else we agree on......

 

[Old Timer]

The single mother with 3 children doesn't understand this. All she sees is the potential of doubling her income. Anyone opposing this is an evil corporation that is standing between her and the wage that she believes she is entitled to.

Then you have people like Old Timer... who probably means well but lacks a basic understanding of macro economics.

I am not in support of redistributing wealth, but if you want to do it don't raise the minimum wage and increase the cost of living for the entire country while hindering economic growth and job creation at the same time.

First of all stop calling me names or saying I don't understand. I understand fine. I just thing are wrong and full of ****. Show me a study that actually shows what you say. There is theory and reality and reality is a great deal more nuanced and complicated than you think. You are only in gave of redistributing wealth upward. It's like trying to explain the genetics of eye color with Punett square.

Or better yet, I'll Christopher Buckley explain the difference:



If it doesn't start there go to 19:51

 

[SClENCE]

First of all stop calling me names or saying I don't understand. I understand fine. I just thing are wrong and full of ****. Show me a study that actually shows what you say. There is theory and reality and reality is a great deal more nuanced and complicated than you think. You are only in gave of redistributing wealth upward. It's like trying to explain the genetics of eye color with Punett square.
If it doesn't start there go to 19:51

Not to insult your literacy but I didn't call you a name...

A simple google search and here's a few pages for your reading pleasure since you requested it:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2013/04/17/the-record-is-clear-minimum-wage-hikes-destroy-jobs/

http://www.cato.org/blog/new-study-finds-minimum-wage-increases-hurt-low-skilled-workers

https://winteryknight.wordpress.com...nimum-wage-hurts-young-minority-workers-most/

https://mises.org/library/yes-minimum-wages-still-increase-unemployment

http://www.aei.org/publication/lets...s-when-it-increased-41-between-2007-and-2009/

https://www.epionline.org/release/o174/

Glad you asked, I'm always happy to facilitate the learning process. And yes, these are actual studies stating facts. I can even read them to you if you have trouble - just drop me a pm 🙂

 

[BMBiology]

I am all for debate but this is what is wrong with our political process. It is all talk. Nothing gets done.

We all know there is not enough money in social security. Yet, nothing is done about it.

We all know there are countless tax loopholes. Yet, nothing is done about it.

We all know we should invest in our broken infrastructures. Yet, nothing is done about it.

Don't get me started on our wasteful healthcare system. You get the picture.

So yeah, go on and debate. We all know nothing is going to come out of it.

 

[PharmacistReb]

I am all for debate but this is what is wrong with our political process. It is all talk. Nothing gets done.

We all know there is not enough money in social security. Yet, nothing is done about it.

We all know there are countless tax loopholes. Yet, nothing is done about it.

We all know we should invest in our broken infrastructures. Yet, nothing is done about it.

Don't get me started on our wasteful healthcare system. You get the picture.

So yeah, go on and debate. We all know nothing is going to come out of it.

Yeah, but for people like me, debate is sport. Some people hate it. Some love it. I'm one of those masochists that thrives on the constant debate. I find it intellectually stimulating. Some people like scientific theory. Others prefer political theory. Some hate all of it and prefer smoke pot and watch Netflix. Some enjoy all three.

There will never be a perfect system. If it was all perfect, then it would honestly be too boring and we couldn't enjoy these debates.

 

[BidingMyTime]

It's absurd to state, though, that it doesn't affect some small businesses. If Billy Bob in Bucksnort, TN (actual place) owns a hardware store and employs 60 hours/week of minimum wage work to local high school kids, then he spends about $23,000 in very low-skill, entry level work if you go on a minimum wage of $7.25/hr. If President Obama or Mrs. Clinton signs a minimum wage bill into law that increases the minimum wage to $10.50/hr, then Billy Bob incurs an extra $10,000 yearly in payroll expenditures for high school clerks and stockers.

Businesses like Wal-Mart support raising the minimum raise....your example shows exactly why big corporations support raising the minimum raise (it is a legal way for them to run their competition out of business.) Raising minimum wage will indeed hurt small independent owners, and will indeed help big corporations. Will this be good or bad for individual workers in the long run.....I think it definitely needs to be considered.

Like Dred Pirate, I'm a libertarian, and I have mixed feelings about the minimum wage. Dred Pirate is right, at some point with no minimum wage, there is the real risk of indentured servitude/virtual slavery (as we know happens in certain other countries.) On the other hand, a minimum wage too high does contribute to the current corporacracy, fascist-leaning state that the US currently is, stifling by law most competition.

I don't know what the answer is, but I know the answer is far more complex then a simple minimum wage good or minimum wage bad.

 

[Old Timer]

Businesses like Wal-Mart support raising the minimum raise....your example shows exactly why big corporations support raising the minimum raise (it is a legal way for them to run their competition out of business.) Raising minimum wage will indeed hurt small independent owners, and will indeed help big corporations. Will this be good or bad for individual workers in the long run.....I think it definitely needs to be considered.

Like Dred Pirate, I'm a libertarian, and I have mixed feelings about the minimum wage. Dred Pirate is right, at some point with no minimum wage, there is the real risk of indentured servitude/virtual slavery (as we know happens in certain other countries.) On the other hand, a minimum wage too high does contribute to the current corporacracy, fascist-leaning state that the US currently is, stifling by law most competition.

I don't know what the answer is, but I know the answer is far more complex then a simple minimum wage good or minimum wage bad.

Nuance is not permitted here. I favor raising the minimum wage to $10.00 per hour. I do not favor $20.00 per hour. I'm also in favor or it now because the consumer demand is depressed and a low wage worker is less likely to save money and more likely to spend money and we need all the spending we can get In the present regulatory environment, big companies are increasing their wages at the low end to reduce turnover. It costs Walmart way more to higher an employee than it does for Billy Bob's hardware. The local independent doesn't usually do drug tests or background checks. Not to mention the training and learning curve. Let's face it, it takes at least 6 months to make a tech. So that extra two dollars an hour is worth it to CVS or Walgreens because they don't want to repeat the process over and over......

 

[SClENCE]

That must be why CVS is paying me 5 cents over min wage. And they asked me to accept/decline intern position without even telling me the new pay so we will see how this ends up...

 

[Old Timer]

That must be why CVS is paying me 5 cents over min wage. And they asked me to accept/decline intern position without even telling me the new pay so we will see how this ends up...

In my region the new minimum for techs is $10.85 and the starting rate for PY1 is $10.50. My techs that have switched were able to keep their rate....

 

[SClENCE]

That's weird that P1 starts at less than a tech. Whats min wage in your region? I was told that I will jump to P3 pay rate since I was already there as a tech but I was never told what the P3 rate is and honestly I'm doubting if this is even going to happen.

 

[BenJammin]

In my region the new minimum for techs is $10.85 and the starting rate for PY1 is $10.50. My techs that have switched were able to keep their rate....

Fascinating. Interns in Los Angeles area would be better off working at McDonald's than a pharmacy. No way is intern pay going up unless you want inflation.

 

[Old Timer]

Fascinating. Interns in Los Angeles area would be better off working at McDonald's than a pharmacy. No way is intern pay going up unless you want inflation.

It's probably different in CA. I'm on the other coast...