HMS waitlist tips

[elicash]

For those of you on the HMS waitlist, I spoke with the director of admissions shortly before decisions came out, and she gave me some advice (we had talked on the phone a couple of times and were friendly):

she told me that the ideal waitlist candidate would tell her that HMS is the top choice, and state that they would accept an offer of admission even on the last day before classes. Without such a guarentee, she claimed that its much harder to take the applicant.

She also said that while they don't have an extremely active waitlist, they do take a bunch of people off the waitlist each year. Apparently HMS is not the kind of school that waitlists everyone who interviews--- so those on the waitlist actually have a chance of getting in.

So: if you're on it, and HMS is what you want, don't despair! Good luck. 😳

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[Sparky Man]

hey thanks! that's great to hear.

 

[sven]

She also said that while they don't have an extremely active waitlist, they do take a bunch of people off the waitlist each year. Apparently HMS is not the kind of school that waitlists everyone who interviews--- so those on the waitlist actually have a chance of getting in.

The letter says the there are about 60 on the NP waitlist, and that historically 40-65% of those waitlisted have eventually been granted offers of admission. I have no idea what's standard, but that sounds pretty active to me.

 

[bobhagopian]

The letter says the there are about 60 on the NP waitlist, and that historically 40-65% of those waitlisted have eventually been granted offers of admission. I have no idea what's standard, but that sounds pretty active to me.

Does anyone have similar information about HST? I know that about 25 are waitlisted each year, but have no idea what fraction typically ends up being accepted.

 

[sven]

Does anyone have similar information about HST? I know that about 25 are waitlisted each year, but have no idea what fraction typically ends up being accepted.

The waitlist letter says 25 for HST and 60 for NP -- and the 40-65% figure seemed to encompass all those on the waitlist, not just NP. I've heard that the HST waitlist is less active than NP, but have no idea what the breakdown is.

 

[Mateodaspy]

I might be freeing up one of those spots soon (NP). I'm having some serious doubts about Harvard (mostly financially).... best of luck to all those waiting!

 

[oceans412]

That doesn't make any sense to me... Why would it be unranked? They don't really re-evaluate every waitlist person when one slot opens, do they? Does anyone out there understand this?

 

[sven]

That doesn't make any sense to me... Why would it be unranked? They don't really re-evaluate every waitlist person when one slot opens, do they? Does anyone out there understand this?

I think that they may just say this by way of encouraging people to update their files. I don't see how they could not have at least an informal ranking system.

 

[oceans412]

Does anyone know if wait-listed students can attend HMS' Second Look weekend? I'd like to be able to see/meet the accepted students who would be potential classmates if they offered me a spot...

 

[diosa428]

she told me that the ideal waitlist candidate would tell her that HMS is the top choice, and state that they would accept an offer of admission even on the last day before classes. Without such a guarentee, she claimed that its much harder to take the applicant.

I DON'T understand this. What is to stop someone who is on 10 waitlists to write the same "I promise I will enroll at your medical school and give you my firstborn child if you accept me" letter to every school where they're on the waitlist? Obviously, people who are on the waitlist at multiple schools would prefer to go to one school over the other, but I think most people would prefer to go to any school they're waitlisted at than none at all. So yes, those that write the letters may be somewhat more motivated, but that doesn't necessarily make them more likely to enroll in that school. And, from my knowledge, letters of intent aren't binding, so there's NO guarantee someone who writes a LOI would go there if accepted. So why the emphasis on writing to them all the time? I mean, I get it but it still seems dumb to me.

 

[jjmack]

I agree.

I DON'T understand this. What is to stop someone who is on 10 waitlists to write the same "I promise I will enroll at your medical school and give you my firstborn child if you accept me" letter to every school where they're on the waitlist? Obviously, people who are on the waitlist at multiple schools would prefer to go to one school over the other, but I think most people would prefer to go to any school they're waitlisted at than none at all. So yes, those that write the letters may be somewhat more motivated, but that doesn't necessarily make them more likely to enroll in that school. And, from my knowledge, letters of intent aren't binding, so there's NO guarantee someone who writes a LOI would go there if accepted. So why the emphasis on writing to them all the time? I mean, I get it but it still seems dumb to me.

 

[elicash]

I agree.

Actually, for the record, when I worked at Columbia (doing research), the research fellows told me about an applicant who had promised Columbia and another school (in clear binding language, "I guarentee, etc.") and another school in NY (don't know which one). When this guy accepted one waitlist and then took Columbia's, the dean of the first school called Franz, etc... and both schools rescinded their acceptances. That was why these research fellows told me to be careful with binding statements in these letters.

Who knows, maybe you could get away with it, but the consequences of being caught are disasterous.

 

[jjmack]

yeah I guess that is a little greedy. I was thinking more about sending a bunch and then just taking the first and withdrawing from the rest. Can't people change their mind? I also would bet that the person you are talking about could win in court especially if his acceptance offers to Columbia and the other NYC school didn't say anything about his LOIs. Personally I don't think I could send out more than one LOI and if someone doesn't it doesn't look good for their character.

Actually, for the record, when I worked at Columbia (doing research), the research fellows told me about an applicant who had promised Columbia and another school (in clear binding language, "I guarentee, etc.") and another school in NY (don't know which one). When this guy accepted one waitlist and then took Columbia's, the dean of the first school called Franz, etc... and both schools rescinded their acceptances. That was why these research fellows told me to be careful with binding statements in these letters.

Who knows, maybe you could get away with it, but the consequences of being caught are disasterous.

 

[theeleganttouch]

That doesn't make any sense to me... Why would it be unranked? They don't really re-evaluate every waitlist person when one slot opens, do they? Does anyone out there understand this?

so a friend of mine is a MS4 at harvard and gave me some insight into the WL process there. the list is definitely unranked, and they pull people off based on what "kind" of person the originally accepted applicant who said "NO" was. IE if a spot opens up because someone who was a big research genius from the west coast pulls out, they might take someone off the WL from the west coast or is a big research genius or someone who is both to replace that original acceptee. Etc Etc. It's an interesting process. Also, fyi, someone in her class did in fact get offered a spot and take that spot the very day before classes began in their first year.

~et

 

[kgm4]

so a friend of mine is a MS4 at harvard and gave me some insight into the WL process there. the list is definitely unranked, and they pull people off based on what "kind" of person the originally accepted applicant who said "NO" was. IE if a spot opens up because someone who was a big research genius from the west coast pulls out, they might take someone off the WL from the west coast or is a big research genius or someone who is both to replace that original acceptee. Etc Etc. It's an interesting process. Also, fyi, someone in her class did in fact get offered a spot and take that spot the very day before classes began in their first year.

~et

if this is true, then lois seem pointless, no? it would make sense, though, since i am sure almost every hms waitlistee sends an loi of sorts, and certainly everyone isn't accepted.

 

[pjm]

I also would bet that the person you are talking about could win in court especially if his acceptance offers to Columbia and the other NYC school didn't say anything about his LOIs.

Court? I seriously doubt it. Most (winnable) admissions lawsuits revolve around discrimination. Plus, filing a lawsuit puts a big "TROUBLEMAKER" sign on your forehead so any other medical school would think twice before letting you in.

Let's say you did sue, and let's say that an admission offer is a binding contract. Currently, it takes plenty of time and money to pursue a lawsuit, especially against a heavily insured entity such as a university. Look at this story of this Texas Tech student who was expelled for writing about an autopsy -- he won (twice!) but to get there took two years and $74K in attorney's fees. All he got from the school was money for attorney's fees and a clean academic record. It's great that this student got a just outcome, but most large organizations expect that individuals won't have the stamina to fight in court. (and they are correct.)

http://www.dailytexanonline.com/new...ech.Medical.Student.Settles.Suit-627629.shtml

also, one point on "accepting the last day before classes start" -- remember that by AAMC rules, schools cannot offer you a place if you have already started the orientation program at another school. (note this can be before the first day of class.) This was important to me, as the school I was accepted to started class a full four weeks(!) before the school I was WL'd at. The dean made a special note about this in my folder.

 

[thebiz98]

PJM makes a good point about the cost of legal stuff...that's definitely why these things, if they exist, don't escalate.

I must say, otherwise, that I think this talk of rescinding acceptances is more about fear-mongering than truth. I posted on a different thread that in the 80's it was made clear for Universities that if they collaborate on decisions regarding admissions and aid that is a violation of Anti-Trust legislation. Schools can't form monopolies. At the point that they are sharing privelaged information from each other's admissions departments and that shared info affects their behavior - They have committed a crime.

The Urban legend of schools finding out you promised two schools the moon and got burnt is totally bogus. What cost would they incur - you would simply not go there and to them you wouldn't be deemed good friend material. NO COST. If they go around investigating, they risk getting into legal trouble and they are spending their scarce time on really petty stuff.

So, I don't buy it

 

[elicash]

PJM makes a good point about the cost of legal stuff...that's definitely why these things, if they exist, don't escalate.

I must say, otherwise, that I think this talk of rescinding acceptances is more about fear-mongering than truth. I posted on a different thread that in the 80's it was made clear for Universities that if they collaborate on decisions regarding admissions and aid that is a violation of Anti-Trust legislation. Schools can't form monopolies. At the point that they are sharing privelaged information from each other's admissions departments and that shared info affects their behavior - They have committed a crime.

The Urban legend of schools finding out you promised two schools the moon and got burnt is totally bogus. What cost would they incur - you would simply not go there and to them you wouldn't be deemed good friend material. NO COST. If they go around investigating, they risk getting into legal trouble and they are spending their scarce time on really petty stuff.

So, I don't buy it

the rescinding urban legends thing is not an urban legend--the columbia postdocs were talking about an actual student a year or two before.

it is not forming monopollies if schools collaborate on applicant information-- it would violate anti-trust if they said "you take this guy, i'll take this girl." this is not "collaborating on admissions decisions" as was stated by a previous poster in regard to anti-trust legislation in the '80s. as far as sharing whether applicants committed to this or that school, that is perfectly legal--i know personally that it is legitimate in the business world.

Nor would schools incur much cost in rescinding applications. Most applicants would not fight it-- partly because it would ruin their name with a medical school that knew about the case, and partly because they would have no cause for recourse--if the schools/courts view the letters of intent as legally binding, then there is no reason they should be at fault.

good luck HMS waitlistees.