HMS with a 3.3?

[Playa]

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I just graduated college (a small college in southern Illinois, and a bio major). Im going to do research at my uni for a year, applied for a Fulbright and see if I get it or not.

The problem is my gpa. its a 3.3. fml. And before all of you guys start pouncing on me for the title of my thread, im not delusional. I would love to get into HMS, Stanford, UPenn, or Columbia, but my top choices are USC, McGill (im not a Montreal resident….or even a Canadian loll) UChicago, Emory, and other colleges that I haven't fully researched yet (I am aware that Emory and Chicago are still out of my league).

Point is that I messed up my undergrad years, my first two years of college was a cGPA of 2.73. My last two years were 4.0's. You live and you learn. My MCAT score is a 38S. I also have shadowing experience (in the US and in India), certified EMT, joined clubs, etc.

Im not one of those people who will commit suicide if gotten rejected by HMS. Im fully aware that im most likely going to be rejected by those famous four, and like i said, they aren't even my top choices, im just curious thats all. I just have a few questions.

1) Am I F**ked for admissions in general?

2) What should I do for my year off?

3) The million dollar question. What about those famous four? Has there been anyone with stats like me that have gotten into those famous four?

4) I hear the name of the school matters for med schools like HMS, UPenn etc, so would I have been better off transferring to a brand name school as an undergrad?<----My cousin is considering to transfer to UofT for his junior year, he wanted to know.

5) Stupid question of the day. My ethnicity is Indian, and most of my people are smart. There are a few exceptions like me loll, and when they are reviewing my file, are they going to wonder "He's Indian, he should have 4.0 gpa and a 42S MCAT. Is he mentally challenged?" loll

Again, Its not like im hoping to get into those famous four or kill myself lol, I just wanted to see what it took to get into those top schools, ill frankly be estatic with any admission (USC, Drexel, McGill, etc….) at the end of the day, a doctor is a doctor, HMS or not loll. Oh and ive already looked into the DO option, and have schools ready to apply for that as well before anyone suggests that loll, this is just for my MD options advice.

Thanks for reading this long post, I wish I found this site earlier on, wouldve helped me to wake up in my undergrad years earlier.

 

[goldandapager]

mdapplicants.com

 

[Compass]

Is there a specific reason you want to go to Harvard besides the word Harvard on your degree?

 

[Playa]

lol as I said earlier, I don't care about getting into HMS. Its not even my top choice and im perfectly fine with going to another med school. Im just curious.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Definitely consider DO schools. 3.3 is low for MD. You have a very good MCAT but it isn't going to full make up for your GPA.

 

[Catalystik]

With a 3.3/38 those applying in the last three years through AMCAS had a 60% chance of an MD acceptance. Your steep upward grade trend will help, as will excellent ECs, strong LORs, a high BCPM GPA, and a good Personal Statement. Applying to some dream schools would be fine if money is no object, but be sure you have a good number of schools in the low to moderate selectivity range.

 

[Playa]

^ thanks.

what about the name of your undergrad (as far as schools like HMS, Stanford, etc are concerned)?

what about my year off, any suggestions?

How do you guys see my situation for schools like USC, Drexel, and other low tier med schools?

 

[FlowRate]

Is there a specific reason you want to go to Harvard besides the word Harvard on your degree?

I thought everyone went to harvard to get the coveted "HMD" instead of a normal MD?

 

[Narmerguy]

I just graduated college (a small college in southern Illinois, and a bio major). Im going to do research at my uni for a year, applied for a Fulbright and see if I get it or not.

The problem is my gpa. its a 3.3. fml. And before all of you guys start pouncing on me for the title of my thread, im not delusional. I would love to get into HMS, Stanford, UPenn, or Columbia, but my top choices are USC, McGill (im not a Montreal resident….or even a Canadian loll) UChicago, Emory, and other colleges that I haven't fully researched yet (I am aware that Emory and Chicago are still out of my league).

Point is that I messed up my undergrad years, my first two years of college was a cGPA of 2.73. My last two years were 4.0's. You live and you learn. My MCAT score is a 38S. I also have shadowing experience (in the US and in India), certified EMT, joined clubs, etc.

Im not one of those people who will commit suicide if gotten rejected by HMS. Im fully aware that im most likely going to be rejected by those famous four, and like i said, they aren't even my top choices, im just curious thats all. I just have a few questions.

1) Am I F**ked for admissions in general?

2) What should I do for my year off?

3) The million dollar question. What about those famous four? Has there been anyone with stats like me that have gotten into those famous four?

4) I hear the name of the school matters for med schools like HMS, UPenn etc, so would I have been better off transferring to a brand name school as an undergrad?<----My cousin is considering to transfer to UofT for his junior year, he wanted to know.

5) Stupid question of the day. My ethnicity is Indian, and most of my people are smart. There are a few exceptions like me loll, and when they are reviewing my file, are they going to wonder "He's Indian, he should have 4.0 gpa and a 42S MCAT. Is he mentally challenged?" loll

Again, Its not like im hoping to get into those famous four or kill myself lol, I just wanted to see what it took to get into those top schools, ill frankly be estatic with any admission (USC, Drexel, McGill, etc….) at the end of the day, a doctor is a doctor, HMS or not loll. Oh and ive already looked into the DO option, and have schools ready to apply for that as well before anyone suggests that loll, this is just for my MD options advice.

Thanks for reading this long post, I wish I found this site earlier on, wouldve helped me to wake up in my undergrad years earlier.

Why is there this persistent belief that applicants (particularly Asians) are compared first and foremost to other applicants of the same ethnicity? It's you vs. the field.

 

[Playa]

lol so i got 1 and 5 out of the way, now about the rest of them&#8230;..

what about the name of your undergrad (as far as schools like HMS, Stanford, etc are concerned)?

what about my year off, any suggestions?

How do you guys see my situation for schools like USC, Drexel, and other low tier med schools?

 

[goldandapager]

lol so i got 1 and 5 out of the way, now about the rest of them…..

what about the name of your undergrad (as far as schools like HMS, Stanford, etc are concerned)?

what about my year off, any suggestions?

How do you guys see my situation for schools like USC, Drexel, and other low tier med schools?

1) Name obviously matters a bit. But, accomplishments matter more.

2) Get a job? Volunteer? Party your ass off? Travel? Do what you like while maintaining continuity of clinical experiences.

3) You should get in somewhere.

No one is a genie. The information and statistics are readily available for you.

 

[drizzt3117]

2. Research

3. Yes but it's profoundly unlikely.

4. It makes a difference but you didn't do great at a small school anyways. What makes you think you'd do better against the best and brightest.

Worry less about top tier schools and more about getting in anywhere.

 

[ohgodidonteven]

Why is there this persistent belief that applicants (particularly Asians) are compared first and foremost to other applicants of the same ethnicity? It's you vs. the field.

Well, mostly because it's true.

 

[goldandapager]

With a 38 and good experiences, and hopefully some savvy with applications, I would be surprised if you didn't get in somewhere, especially considering the GPA turnaround.

 

[Narmerguy]

Well, mostly because it's true.

Simply not true. The only way this is even close is that if you are URM you may get the benefit of the doubt and thus be considered separately from the rest of the pool. However, everyone else is all considered the same and I highly doubt adcoms run around thinking "Oh gee, this is a dumb Asian, they're only average. Better not pick them"

 

[pavlovb]

I just graduated college (a small college in southern Illinois, and a bio major). Im going to do research at my uni for a year, applied for a Fulbright and see if I get it or not.

The problem is my gpa. its a 3.3. fml. And before all of you guys start pouncing on me for the title of my thread, im not delusional. I would love to get into HMS, Stanford, UPenn, or Columbia, but my top choices are USC, McGill (im not a Montreal resident….or even a Canadian loll) UChicago, Emory, and other colleges that I haven't fully researched yet (I am aware that Emory and Chicago are still out of my league).

Point is that I messed up my undergrad years, my first two years of college was a cGPA of 2.73. My last two years were 4.0's. You live and you learn. My MCAT score is a 38S. I also have shadowing experience (in the US and in India), certified EMT, joined clubs, etc.

Im not one of those people who will commit suicide if gotten rejected by HMS. Im fully aware that im most likely going to be rejected by those famous four, and like i said, they aren't even my top choices, im just curious thats all. I just have a few questions.

1) Am I F**ked for admissions in general?

2) What should I do for my year off?

3) The million dollar question. What about those famous four? Has there been anyone with stats like me that have gotten into those famous four?

4) I hear the name of the school matters for med schools like HMS, UPenn etc, so would I have been better off transferring to a brand name school as an undergrad?<----My cousin is considering to transfer to UofT for his junior year, he wanted to know.

5) Stupid question of the day. My ethnicity is Indian, and most of my people are smart. There are a few exceptions like me loll, and when they are reviewing my file, are they going to wonder "He's Indian, he should have 4.0 gpa and a 42S MCAT. Is he mentally challenged?" loll

Again, Its not like im hoping to get into those famous four or kill myself lol, I just wanted to see what it took to get into those top schools, ill frankly be estatic with any admission (USC, Drexel, McGill, etc….) at the end of the day, a doctor is a doctor, HMS or not loll. Oh and ive already looked into the DO option, and have schools ready to apply for that as well before anyone suggests that loll, this is just for my MD options advice.

Thanks for reading this long post, I wish I found this site earlier on, wouldve helped me to wake up in my undergrad years earlier.

 

[drizzt3117]

Simply not true. The only way this is even close is that if you are URM you may get the benefit of the doubt and thus be considered separately from the rest of the pool. However, everyone else is all considered the same and I highly doubt adcoms run around thinking "Oh gee, this is a dumb Asian, they're only average. Better not pick them"

Unfortunately, it is true... simply because adcoms are trying to inject diversity into their classes. If they wanted, adcoms could have classes entirely composed of east and south asian students with high stats. Since they don't, it means a lot of that population with relatively lower stats are getting the shaft.

 

[YouNeverKnow22]

sure why not. if you have connections to a top tier school it would make things easier (like getting a interview invite)

 

[NotAsking4Much]

Name does matter. A 3.8 from random college vs a top 10 3.7, they're going to lean more towards the 3.7. But 3.8 vs 3.4..then yeah, tough luck.

There is naturally academic elitism. People who came from great schools will be more inclined towards others with prestigious backgrounds.

 

[Slack3r]

Better question: who would actually WANT to go to Harvard?

 

[WannaBePreMed]

Who is "nobody"?

Better question: who would actually WANT to go to Harvard?

 

[mspeedwagon]

Name only matters if you have a 4.0 [or similar high GPA]. A 4.0 from the Ivy for example, is much better than a 4.0 from Florida State. One of my pre-med advisors at Brown always said that Ivy League grads can add 0.2 to their GPA. That is the BIGGEST advantage they will get at places. Realize that in most places it may be 0.1 or 0.

However, with a 3.3 you are **** out of luck. A 3.6 from Florida State is infinitely better than a 3.3 from an Ivy.

Honestly, there are way too many applicants with high MCAT, low GPA (if you don't believe me, hover to the non-trad forum). You have virtually no shot at the elite medical schools. However, you are an excellent candidate for the mid to lower level schools (where the non-trads with high MCAT, low GPA end up). Schools like Drexel, Tufts, BU, MCW, UIC etc. would all consider your application closely.

Name does matter. A 3.8 from random college vs a top 10 3.7, they're going to lean more towards the 3.7. But 3.8 vs 3.4..then yeah, tough luck.

There is naturally academic elitism. People who came from great schools will be more inclined towards others with prestigious backgrounds.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I definitely would NEVER move back to the northeast. However, I'm sure there are a lot of people that would take an acceptance from Harvard. It is an elite institution. However, for some of older folks, prestige does not matter as much as geographic restrictions.

Better question: who would actually WANT to go to Harvard?

 

[Playa]

Aw well thats a real bummer, I knew that I had no chances to begin with, but thought that with my GPA turn around, some good ec experiences + essay would give me a shot at any of those four. lol but then again I did go to a no name undergrad school, so according to the academic elitism theory, I do scrape the bottom of the barrel there.

Rant: I understand that people from Ivy leagues and top 20 colleges have to work harder for an A, grading curves are more harsh etc, and of course they are smarter than me lol, being an Indian whose family and friends go to big name schools, im pretty used to feeling stupid, especially since I only got a 3.3 at my low ranked college. During the summer of my sophomore year, I worked at the Chennai Cancer Institute in India shadowing doctors, and ever since that experience, I knew I really wanted to be a doctor. I bring this up because I had that realization very late, and its my fault, but I know that this is what I want to do. Im not saying that im as capable or intelligent as a 3.8 Ivy grad, I know that im not at the top of the ladder, but im just saying sometimes numbers aren't everything, regardless of Ivy grad or Southern Illinois grad. I don't expect the system to change or anything lol, just making a point. End Rant.

Doesn't matter, at the end of the day a doctor is a doctor, Harvard or not. If people consider me to be a less capable, or a less intelligent physician just because I didn't go to a top 20 ranked medical school, well they can just go ______ themselves. 🙂

 

[GoSpursGo]

What are my chances...

 

[RogueUnicorn]

i have gpa around yours (lower) with comparable mcat and i scored an interview at pritzker. you never know.

 

[drizzt3117]

that's not precisely true. There's a lot of variability in this. Let's try to avoid blanket statements.

GPA is one tool we use to evaluate applicants, but certainly not the only one.

Name only matters if you have a 4.0 [or similar high GPA]. A 4.0 from the Ivy for example, is much better than a 4.0 from Florida State. One of my pre-med advisors at Brown always said that Ivy League grads can add 0.2 to their GPA. That is the BIGGEST advantage they will get at places. Realize that in most places it may be 0.1 or 0.

However, with a 3.3 you are **** out of luck. A 3.6 from Florida State is infinitely better than a 3.3 from an Ivy.

Honestly, there are way too many applicants with high MCAT, low GPA (if you don't believe me, hover to the non-trad forum). You have virtually no shot at the elite medical schools. However, you are an excellent candidate for the mid to lower level schools (where the non-trads with high MCAT, low GPA end up). Schools like Drexel, Tufts, BU, MCW, UIC etc. would all consider your application closely.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I'm assuming you took issue with this statement: "However, with a 3.3 you are **** out of luck. A 3.6 from Florida State is infinitely better than a 3.3 from an Ivy?"

Wasn't trying to make a blanket statement, just saying that there are a lot of applicants with low GPAs, high MCATs and I have yet to see any of them end up at Harvard in the last few cycles (can't find any on here or on mdapps either).

Edit: after lots of searching I found one (though this was in 04, which was 6 years ago): http://www.mdapplicants.com/profile.php?id=3259&refname=Search%20Results&refuri=search,search_appstatus:accepted,search_school:22,psr:0,orderby:OverallGPA,order:asc.

that's not precisely true. There's a lot of variability in this. Let's try to avoid blanket statements.

GPA is one tool we use to evaluate applicants, but certainly not the only one.

 

[drizzt3117]

It's not uncommon to see low stat applicants to top tier schools. I can cite dozens of cases in the last couple years. Again like I said, it boils down to premeds not knowing what med schools are looking for. Things look different from the adcom perspective. Our job is to fill a class with the characteristics we want. It's not an easy one, I'm sort of glad I'm not doing it this year.

I'm assuming you took issue with this statement: "However, with a 3.3 you are **** out of luck. A 3.6 from Florida State is infinitely better than a 3.3 from an Ivy?"

Wasn't trying to make a blanket statement, just saying that there are a lot of applicants with low GPAs, high MCATs and I have yet to see any of them end up at Harvard in the last few cycles (can't find any on here or on mdapps either).

Edit: after lots of searching I found one (though this was in 04, which was 6 years ago): http://www.mdapplicants.com/profile.php?id=3259&refname=Search%20Results&refuri=search,search_appstatus:accepted,search_school:22,psr:0,orderby:OverallGPA,order:asc.

 

[MiCasaMD]

I can't believe that I spent five minutes of my life that I will not get back reading this junk. If you want to be a physician then you should have the intellect to figure out for yourself if your grades and mcat score are competitive.

 

[Narmerguy]

Unfortunately, it is true... simply because adcoms are trying to inject diversity into their classes. If they wanted, adcoms could have classes entirely composed of east and south asian students with high stats. Since they don't, it means a lot of that population with relatively lower stats are getting the shaft.

Actually, I'm sure you're aware that there are fore more White applicants than Asian and that the averages for whites is only slightly below that of Asians. If they wanted, they could fill an entire class with white students with high stats. Since they don't, that means that a lot of that population with relatively lower stats are getting the shaft.


The argument that some Asians with average stats are not getting accepted does not prove that Asians are held to a higher standard. Whites with high stats and Asians with high stats both get shafted as well...I'm not going to even begin to discuss issues of diversity of activities beyond stats (the stats alone don't get an applicant accepted, a common reason for why above average and even average applicants are being rejected). Sorry, but it is simply untrue to say that Asians are discriminated against in med school apps.

 

[drizzt3117]

The difference is that white applicants aren't as overrepresented relative to their % of the overall population.

Actually, I'm sure you're aware that there are fore more White applicants than Asian and that the averages for whites is only slightly below that of Asians. If they wanted, they could fill an entire class with white students with high stats. Since they don't, that means that a lot of that population with relatively lower stats are getting the shaft.


The argument that some Asians with average stats are not getting accepted does not prove that Asians are held to a higher standard. Whites with high stats and Asians with high stats both get shafted as well...I'm not going to even begin to discuss issues of diversity of activities beyond stats (the stats alone don't get an applicant accepted, a common reason for why above average and even average applicants are being rejected). Sorry, but it is simply untrue to say that Asians are discriminated against in med school apps.

 

[Playa]

What Namerguy is saying may be true for mid to low tier med schools, but besides URMs and 30+ year old mature applicants, im sure it would be an adventure to find an Indian or an Asian with my GPA at the elite med schools,

 

[Playa]

Sorry for the double post guys.

The point that im trying to make is that sure I may not be as smart as that 3.8 Princeton grad, but I sure as hell have the character, the work ethic, and the will to become a doctor just as much as he/she does. I don't think academic elitism should exist when it comes to medicine. I do understand that it is a tertiary factor considered after everything else being equal between two candidates, and I do realize that there are plenty of people from rural places and small colleges that did well and go to elite med schools, im not talking about people, im talking about the ideology. I think that a Kansas State Uni grad and a Princeton grad would make good physicians if their applications were good enough (not talking about just GPA here) since the nature of medicine is such that it requires a genuine compassion for people, and a passion for science to be successful, not just some memorization of theorems or formulas or some abstract philosophies. Everything that a doctor does affects someone's life, and if people are mature enough to realize that in order to be a good doctor, they have to be a good person, then it should make no difference if they go to Princeton or KSU, since thats something that has to stem from the individual.

Just my $.02, I don't expect anyone else to agree with me.

 

[Playa]

Completely agree with you on that one…..looks like we got $.04 between us, at this rate we could make enough to cover tuition lolll.

 

[drizzt3117]

you just to remember what an adcom's job is, to sort through thousands of applications and pick a class that will 1) matriculate 2) pass the boards and graduate and 3) meet their expectations. Adcoms in general are quite risk adverse.

Sorry for the double post guys.

The point that im trying to make is that sure I may not be as smart as that 3.8 Princeton grad, but I sure as hell have the character, the work ethic, and the will to become a doctor just as much as he/she does. I don't think academic elitism should exist when it comes to medicine. I do understand that it is a tertiary factor considered after everything else being equal between two candidates, and I do realize that there are plenty of people from rural places and small colleges that did well and go to elite med schools, im not talking about people, im talking about the ideology. I think that a Kansas State Uni grad and a Princeton grad would make good physicians if their applications were good enough (not talking about just GPA here) since the nature of medicine is such that it requires a genuine compassion for people, and a passion for science to be successful, not just some memorization of theorems or formulas or some abstract philosophies. Everything that a doctor does affects someone's life, and if people are mature enough to realize that in order to be a good doctor, they have to be a good person, then it should make no difference if they go to Princeton or KSU, since thats something that has to stem from the individual.

Just my $.02, I don't expect anyone else to agree with me.

 

[Playa]

you just to remember what an adcom's job is, to sort through thousands of applications and pick a class that will 1) matriculate 2) pass the boards and graduate and 3) meet their expectations. Adcoms in general are quite risk adverse.

The Holy Grail of admissions, I used to think that women had it tough with hormonal changes and whatnot lol, turns out there exist a greater set of beings with a much much more abstract view on everything as to what "meets their expectations". So much more that it makes us mortals wonder why we dare to even attempt to "meet these being's expectations."

 

[drizzt3117]

all sarcasm aside, it's a tough job. We want a class that will score in our expected/historical range on boards, match well, and do well qualitatively in the wards and beyond. This all from a few pieces of paper and maybe an hour of face time with interviewers...

The Holy Grail of admissions, I used to think that women had it tough with hormonal changes and whatnot lol, turns out there exist a greater set of beings with a much much more abstract view on everything as to what "meets their expectations". So much more that it makes us mortals wonder why we dare to even attempt to "meet these being's expectations."

 

[Krypton36]

Not with a 3.3, sorry. Elsewhere? Yes. Apply broadly; your steep upward trend and high MCAT will help you.

 

[Playa]

that's not precisely true. There's a lot of variability in this. Let's try to avoid blanket statements.

GPA is one tool we use to evaluate applicants, but certainly not the only one.

Hmmm where have I heard that before? lol…..the same thing the admissions officers say to high school kids applying for undergrad.

 

[Playa]

It's not uncommon to see low stat applicants to top tier schools. I can cite dozens of cases in the last couple years. Again like I said, it boils down to premeds not knowing what med schools are looking for. Things look different from the adcom perspective. Our job is to fill a class with the characteristics we want. It's not an easy one, I'm sort of glad I'm not doing it this year.

Correction, its not uncommon to see URM's with low stats at top tier schools, hence your dozens of cases. Find me an Asian, or an Indian student at Stanford or HMS who got in with low stats, and ill pay you $1000.

I don't even think adcoms know what they're looking for these days. Some very bright people I know from my college didn't get in anywhere, but some of my less intelligent comrades somehow got into med school…..

"Characteristics we want"…..gotcha. I got this process down now.