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Home sauna, worth the $$$?
Started by jonnylingo
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You like dry heat? Go to a gym that has one and try it a few x per week. If you can tolerate 20 min 3 days a week and enjoy it, but it.
Interested in this too. Nothing clears my head like a sauna at the end of a long day
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IR or traditional 220v heating unit?
If I were to get one it would need to be able to sit 4. Or just me lying down.
If I were to get one it would need to be able to sit 4. Or just me lying down.
Wow props to you. I think ideally you have an ice bath right after the sauna. Now that’s living
Several ice baths/week! That is interesting. I use my steam shower once per week. It is pretty enjoyable. Just takes awhile to get the steam going. About 5 minutes.
Yes, it's worth it. You can reduce your risk for Alzheimer's significantly.
You can always build it yourself if that's your thing. It shouldn't be too difficult.
You can always build it yourself if that's your thing. It shouldn't be too difficult.
Sauna suits are $20, but not the same as a dry sauna, which I personally prefer over steam rooms. I like saunas, but everyone likes them bc they're easy. I used to cut weight when I was competing in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu tournaments and wearing sauna suits was just part of it. A cheap suit with sweats on top will push you hard. Gotta be careful with it though, none of us are 24 years old.
Ice baths for me are superior. Far more difficult. I bought a 100 gallon water trough from ACE Hardware for $99. A Plunge bath is around $6-7k, the Ice Barrel is $1200. I may buy a Plunge at some point bc it will make my life easier and I won't need to buy ice (huge limiting factor). Local gas station is $2 for 20 pounds, but it's annoying to go up there.
In my $99 tub, I put around 70g of water and 80 lbs of ice. Me and my son get in, my wife gets in when we get out.
More commonly, I put around 40 pounds of ice in my bathtub. It's just quicker and easier than filling up my ACE Hardware tub (we use it on the weekends).
It is intense, but for me it is necessary. I works like capsaicin - You deplete stress and anxieties and general life troubles bc the ice rips it out of you.
Physically, I can't do what I do in terms of working out without frequent cold exposure. In fact, heat makes me sore. If I workout hard and punish myself (my preference), and I use heat afterwards or during (sauna suit), I feel worse.
In terms of alternating hot cold, I'd suggest you gradually try it. I've had dizzy episodes doing that. I wouldn't recommend it without someone with you, similarly I wouldn't recommend an actual ice bath if you're alone. At least not initially.
Ice baths for me are superior. Far more difficult. I bought a 100 gallon water trough from ACE Hardware for $99. A Plunge bath is around $6-7k, the Ice Barrel is $1200. I may buy a Plunge at some point bc it will make my life easier and I won't need to buy ice (huge limiting factor). Local gas station is $2 for 20 pounds, but it's annoying to go up there.
In my $99 tub, I put around 70g of water and 80 lbs of ice. Me and my son get in, my wife gets in when we get out.
More commonly, I put around 40 pounds of ice in my bathtub. It's just quicker and easier than filling up my ACE Hardware tub (we use it on the weekends).
It is intense, but for me it is necessary. I works like capsaicin - You deplete stress and anxieties and general life troubles bc the ice rips it out of you.
Physically, I can't do what I do in terms of working out without frequent cold exposure. In fact, heat makes me sore. If I workout hard and punish myself (my preference), and I use heat afterwards or during (sauna suit), I feel worse.
In terms of alternating hot cold, I'd suggest you gradually try it. I've had dizzy episodes doing that. I wouldn't recommend it without someone with you, similarly I wouldn't recommend an actual ice bath if you're alone. At least not initially.
what evidence is there that saunas reduce Alzheimers?
nm, i looked it up. apparently 2 studies done on Finnish people.
observational studies, flimsy evidence.
nm, i looked it up. apparently 2 studies done on Finnish people.
observational studies, flimsy evidence.
I think over there saunas are more common than pizzarias in NYC, maybe 1 per family.
Those studies are good enough for me and a good start. How would you propose setting up an rct to study that?
Even without those studies, I'm still planning on building one when I start building my house. Also a steam room and an outdoor hot tub on a second floor deck overlooking the forest and the blue ridge. That's non negotiable.
Why not small reusable gel packs or ice cubes and a small chest freezer to pop them in once they thaw out? Could be a pain to transfer it but it's only 40 pounds and you can throw them in a bag
You need A LOT of ice, and the reusable stuff just doesn't work.
I have many times put freezer blocks in with regular ice and never got much of a difference in temperature.
The regular ice cools the water very quickly, which is also important. You dump the ice, given it 30 sec and then get inside before it melts.
Andrew Huberman has several great podcast episodes about heat and cold exposure.
I purchased an infrared sauna about 5 years ago after doing extensive research on all sorts of sauna options. I really enjoyed my unit and was using it regularly for about 3 years. When I moved to my new house it just wasn't as convenient and I haven't used it as much. It is difficult to use devices inside the sauna due to the heat (phone, TV, tablets, etc) and books get a bit messy with all the sweat, so your often alone with your thoughts. This can be good or bad depending on how you roll. When I do use it, I almost always sleep better and it does make doing the stretching routine a lot easier. It is also very quiet inside which can be a great comfort from all the stim throughout the day. I don't know the science/data on ice vs heat but it seems that both sides offer evidence of benefit. I got into the ICE MAN Wym Hoff for a bit and was doing cold showers for awhile. It was a fascinating experience but again not something I stuck with.
I've heard a bit about this. I haven't done it just yet and I'll have to first muster up enough of the same courage that you have. I'm starting up with BJJ again Oct 1 so once I get in better shape maybe I'll be ready.
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Too many studies to list. I pulled some data from the following Review:
Evid Based Complement Alternat Med. 2018; 2018: 1857413.
Published online 2018 Apr 24. doi: 10.1155/2018/1857413
PMCID: PMC5941775
PMID: 29849692
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Cardiovascular:
Positive,
BP and CTR decreased in both groups (sauna p < 0.01, p < 0.001;
control p < 0.05, p < 0.05).
Body wt decreased
(p < 0.0001); LVEF on ECHO increased (p < 0.0001); plasma BNP decreased (p < 0.001) in sauna group compared with control group
Positive,
fewer PVCs (p < 0.01), fewer couplets (p < 0.05), fewer episodes of VT (p < 0.01), decreased CTR (p < 0.05), increased HRV variability (p < 0.01), lowered serum levels of BNP (p < 0.01) in sauna treatment group compared to control group
Positive,
systolic BP (p < 0.05) and urinary 8-epi- prostaglandin F2α levels (p < 0.001) significantly lower in sauna group compared to control group
Positive,
increased LVEF (left ventricular ejection fraction), p = 0.023; reduced levels of norepinephrine and BNP, p = 0.015 and p = 0.035;
Positive,
decreased body wt (p < 0.05), SBP and DBP (p < 0.01, p < 0.05)
Positive, reduced total cholesterol (p < 0.05), reduced LDL cholesterol (p value unclear), increased HDL cholesterol (p < 0.05)
Positive, reduced total cholesterol (4.50 ± 0.66 mmol/L to 4.18 ± 0.41 mmol/L, p = 0.02) and LDL levels (2.71 ± 0.47 mmol/L to 2.43 ± 0.35, p = 0.01) after 10 sessions of sauna over 2 weeks – returned to baseline after 2 weeks without sauna
Positive, reduction in total cholesterol (4.47 ± 0.85 mmol/L to 4.25 ± 0.93 mmol/L, p < 0.05) and LDL levels (2.83 ± 0.80 mmol/L to 2.69 ± 0.83 mmol/L, p < 0.05) after repeated sauna
NEURO:
Positive,
sauna bathing 4−7 times a week associated with 66% risk reduction (hazard ratio 0.34, 95% CI) in developing dementia or Alzheimer's compared with 1 time/week
Positive,
sauna bathing 4–7 sessions weekly associated with 40% reduction in all-cause mortality compared with 1 session weekly, (hazard ratio 0.60, 95% CI, 0.46–0.80, p < 0.001)
Positive,
improved stress (p = 0.042), fatigue (p = 0.014), general health (p = 0.037) on SF-36
Sauna studies of rheumatological disease/chronic pain/depression.
In addition to having profound physiological effects, sauna bathing is reported to have beneficial psychological effects that are reflected in the many reports of improved well-being, pain tolerance, and other self-assessed symptom-related scoring [34, 36, 43, 45, 46, 50–56, 58, 60, 68, 69]. The psychological impact of sauna bathing may be due to a combination of factors that include release of endorphins and other opioid-like peptides such as dynorphins [81, 92], forced mindfulness, psychological stress reduction, relaxation, improved sleep, time out from busy life schedules, placebo effects, and other aspects of individual psychological and social interactions that likely occur around frequent sauna activity.
Positive,
44% reduction in HA intensity in 6 weeks of treatment arm.
Positive,
increased likelihood of return to work 2 years later (p < 0.05); decrease in anger scoring in sauna group compared to control (4.5 ± 1.1 to 2.2 ± 1.6, p < 0.001)
Positive, improved somatic complaints (p < 0.001), improved hunger scores (p < 0.0001), and improved relaxation scores (p < 0.0001) in sauna group compared to control group. Plasma ghrelin concentrations and daily caloric intake increased in sauna group
Positive,
pain and stiffness decreased in RA (p < 0.05) and AS (p < 0.001) groups during sauna sessions only.
Positive, decreased fatigue (p = 0.002), improved POMS scores for anxiety (p = 0.008), depression (p = 0.018), fatigue (p = 0.005)
Positive, reduced VAS pain scores (p < 0.001); fewer # of tender pts (p < 0.01); reduced symptoms based upon FIQ (p < 0.001); improved quality of life on SF-36 questionnaire (p < 0.01–0.05)
REPRO:
NEGATIVE -
Post-intervention: lowered sperm count (93 ± 27.0 × 106 vs 223 ± 52.8 × 106, p < 0.001); lowered sperm concentration (31 ± 13.1 × 106/ml vs 89 ± 29.3 × 106/ml, p < 0.001); fewer motile sperm
Evid Based Complement Alternat Med. 2018; 2018: 1857413.
Published online 2018 Apr 24. doi: 10.1155/2018/1857413
PMCID: PMC5941775
PMID: 29849692
Clinical Effects of Regular Dry Sauna Bathing: A Systematic Review
Joy Hussain and Marc CohenClinical Effects of Regular Dry Sauna Bathing: A Systematic Review - PMC
Many health benefits are claimed by individuals and facilities promoting sauna bathing; however the medical evidence to support these claims is not well established. This paper aims to systematically review recent research on the effects of repeated ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Cardiovascular:
Positive,
BP and CTR decreased in both groups (sauna p < 0.01, p < 0.001;
control p < 0.05, p < 0.05).
Body wt decreased
(p < 0.0001); LVEF on ECHO increased (p < 0.0001); plasma BNP decreased (p < 0.001) in sauna group compared with control group
Positive,
fewer PVCs (p < 0.01), fewer couplets (p < 0.05), fewer episodes of VT (p < 0.01), decreased CTR (p < 0.05), increased HRV variability (p < 0.01), lowered serum levels of BNP (p < 0.01) in sauna treatment group compared to control group
Positive,
systolic BP (p < 0.05) and urinary 8-epi- prostaglandin F2α levels (p < 0.001) significantly lower in sauna group compared to control group
Positive,
increased LVEF (left ventricular ejection fraction), p = 0.023; reduced levels of norepinephrine and BNP, p = 0.015 and p = 0.035;
Positive,
decreased body wt (p < 0.05), SBP and DBP (p < 0.01, p < 0.05)
Positive, reduced total cholesterol (p < 0.05), reduced LDL cholesterol (p value unclear), increased HDL cholesterol (p < 0.05)
Positive, reduced total cholesterol (4.50 ± 0.66 mmol/L to 4.18 ± 0.41 mmol/L, p = 0.02) and LDL levels (2.71 ± 0.47 mmol/L to 2.43 ± 0.35, p = 0.01) after 10 sessions of sauna over 2 weeks – returned to baseline after 2 weeks without sauna
Positive, reduction in total cholesterol (4.47 ± 0.85 mmol/L to 4.25 ± 0.93 mmol/L, p < 0.05) and LDL levels (2.83 ± 0.80 mmol/L to 2.69 ± 0.83 mmol/L, p < 0.05) after repeated sauna
NEURO:
Positive,
sauna bathing 4−7 times a week associated with 66% risk reduction (hazard ratio 0.34, 95% CI) in developing dementia or Alzheimer's compared with 1 time/week
Positive,
sauna bathing 4–7 sessions weekly associated with 40% reduction in all-cause mortality compared with 1 session weekly, (hazard ratio 0.60, 95% CI, 0.46–0.80, p < 0.001)
Positive,
improved stress (p = 0.042), fatigue (p = 0.014), general health (p = 0.037) on SF-36
Sauna studies of rheumatological disease/chronic pain/depression.
In addition to having profound physiological effects, sauna bathing is reported to have beneficial psychological effects that are reflected in the many reports of improved well-being, pain tolerance, and other self-assessed symptom-related scoring [34, 36, 43, 45, 46, 50–56, 58, 60, 68, 69]. The psychological impact of sauna bathing may be due to a combination of factors that include release of endorphins and other opioid-like peptides such as dynorphins [81, 92], forced mindfulness, psychological stress reduction, relaxation, improved sleep, time out from busy life schedules, placebo effects, and other aspects of individual psychological and social interactions that likely occur around frequent sauna activity.
Positive,
44% reduction in HA intensity in 6 weeks of treatment arm.
Positive,
increased likelihood of return to work 2 years later (p < 0.05); decrease in anger scoring in sauna group compared to control (4.5 ± 1.1 to 2.2 ± 1.6, p < 0.001)
Positive, improved somatic complaints (p < 0.001), improved hunger scores (p < 0.0001), and improved relaxation scores (p < 0.0001) in sauna group compared to control group. Plasma ghrelin concentrations and daily caloric intake increased in sauna group
Positive,
pain and stiffness decreased in RA (p < 0.05) and AS (p < 0.001) groups during sauna sessions only.
Positive, decreased fatigue (p = 0.002), improved POMS scores for anxiety (p = 0.008), depression (p = 0.018), fatigue (p = 0.005)
Positive, reduced VAS pain scores (p < 0.001); fewer # of tender pts (p < 0.01); reduced symptoms based upon FIQ (p < 0.001); improved quality of life on SF-36 questionnaire (p < 0.01–0.05)
REPRO:
NEGATIVE -
Post-intervention: lowered sperm count (93 ± 27.0 × 106 vs 223 ± 52.8 × 106, p < 0.001); lowered sperm concentration (31 ± 13.1 × 106/ml vs 89 ± 29.3 × 106/ml, p < 0.001); fewer motile sperm
Come on, Steve, you lying down is probably equal to two people sitting, max.
Insert short guy joke here.
Is this really a negative?
as drusso says, GIGO, but...
out of 906 citations only 7 were randomized controlled studies, and only one of those lasted as long as 6 weeks.
the other 2 studies of note were the aforementioned Finnish studies that did have 20 year duration. prospective cohort study with positive findings.
it looks promising. and i love going in saunas. but not promising enough to buy one.
because there is the suggestion that hot tubs may have similar effect, and i own a hot tub.
out of 906 citations only 7 were randomized controlled studies, and only one of those lasted as long as 6 weeks.
the other 2 studies of note were the aforementioned Finnish studies that did have 20 year duration. prospective cohort study with positive findings.
it looks promising. and i love going in saunas. but not promising enough to buy one.
because there is the suggestion that hot tubs may have similar effect, and i own a hot tub.
Nothing special about dry sauna. It's heat exposure. Hot tubs, sauna suits, dry sauna, steam room...The differences are negligible.
You need to be uncomfortable to the point you want out.
Hot baths will do that just the same as a fancy dry sauna.
Is there something to 170+ degree air with respect to heat shock proteins? Maybe, but what's important is the stress.
Your bathtub filled with hot water (hot enough you can barely handle it) will put as much stress on your system as you want. Get used to sauna suits ($20) and very hot baths before you buy a sauna.
Edit - Yall grow a pair and get cold. It will change your life in ways heat cannot.
You need to be uncomfortable to the point you want out.
Hot baths will do that just the same as a fancy dry sauna.
Is there something to 170+ degree air with respect to heat shock proteins? Maybe, but what's important is the stress.
Your bathtub filled with hot water (hot enough you can barely handle it) will put as much stress on your system as you want. Get used to sauna suits ($20) and very hot baths before you buy a sauna.
Edit - Yall grow a pair and get cold. It will change your life in ways heat cannot.
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deleted875186
Honestly how do you even get in an ice bath. I can’t even take a cold shower.
I'd post pics of me and my son, but not in this open forum.
He's 13...If he can get in so can you.
When do we talk about the benefits of a blood boy?
Miss that show. So good.
Smh.... marines are wired differently.
i live in a climate where people wear t shirts and shorts when its in the balmy 30s. schools dont close until the wind chill is below -25. if i want to get cold, most of the year ill just step outside.
Cold is subjective, so if you're accustomed to mid 30s and t-shirts, okay great. If you're not cold you're not cold.
That same logic applies when Mrs Smith tells me she has a high pain tolerance and her 6 is someone else's 9.
It won't be -25 every day of the year, but if it is -25 you should put on gloves and boots and go outside until you shiver.
Ice baths are incredible for vigor and constitution.
I have not been exposed to such horrors in many years. But one of the most pleasant experiences I've ever had was at a Japanese onsen. This one onsen had digital thermometers above each pool, with some scalding and others freezing. You just go from one to the other and feel ecstacy at each one. Then at the end you can lay on top of a bamboo steam bath and the feeling is sublime. My girlfriend at the time dragged me into the place because, a bunch of naked dudes? -no thanks. But she had to wait for me to leave lol.
another reason why the japanese live the longest. the baths have a lot to do with it
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I can feel the strength oozing from your post! You're a new man. Powerful. Hard as a rock!
Your destiny awaits you - Accept the true challenge and become a champion.
In my house we call it #icelyphe.
Submerge your body beneath the icy waters of icelyphe. Purify yourself. Rise from this bath in the manner of the Phoenix.
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My pool is 81degrees right now. . . does that count? My hot tub has been at like 103-105F, and we have been using it all summer long.
This long ass Sumer with more triple digit days than not.
This long ass Sumer with more triple digit days than not.
That really sounds like an amazing experience.
What's better than having a really hard workout, I mean really pushing your body, and then spending the rest of the day doing something like that? There are probably few things better in life.
Why don't Americans do more things like this? When we do have things like this it tends to be so expensive and out of reach for most people. I know something like this and like massage are incorporated into the daily lives of many countries, especially in Asia. I love living here but there's so much to learn from others. We seem to be so unhealthy on so many levels.
The bath houses I went to were nude too. There were females in the open pool area with naked men and it wasn't a thing. We spent hours in several pools and then got massages.
A lot of Japanese dudes smoking cigarettes in there BTW, and there was EtOH in vending machines.
Pushing your body using temperature is zero impact too. You can do it your entire life.
mitch sounds like a Bond villain
ill jump in a cool lake to wake up or maybe do polar plunge on new years day to shake off the hangover. everything else is a bit too extreme.
also, there is a difference between comfortable bath houses with warm water and massages vs. extreme temperature changes. hard to do a study, but id be interested in the real literature behind this. my guess is that people get some sort of endogenous opioid release, similar to the way one feels after exercising
ill jump in a cool lake to wake up or maybe do polar plunge on new years day to shake off the hangover. everything else is a bit too extreme.
also, there is a difference between comfortable bath houses with warm water and massages vs. extreme temperature changes. hard to do a study, but id be interested in the real literature behind this. my guess is that people get some sort of endogenous opioid release, similar to the way one feels after exercising
I wouldn't have an issue with the nudity, no biggie, or the alcohol but the tob use would drive me crazy. I understand it relaxes some people but I couldn't enjoy myself sucking in that secondhand smoke.
Please see those podcasts I posted above. Huberman goes through what evidence is available.
i am not finding any good data that suggests the ice baths are beneficial, unlike heat, in pubmed searches.
can you link the studies Huberman talks about in his podcast?
can you link the studies Huberman talks about in his podcast?
I bet you're fun at parties...
Every professional sports team in the world uses cold exposure, along with virtually every NCAA athletic department, Olympic teams, etc.
It is very difficult to recruit subjects for cold exposure trials. Ppl don't want to do it bc it is intense.
Using Deliberate Cold Exposure for Health and Performance
I describe mechanisms by which deliberate cold exposure can enhance mental health, physical health, and performance - science-based tools from the Huberman Lab.
hubermanlab.com
Dr. Andy Galpin: How to Build Strength, Muscle Size & Endurance
Dr. Andy Galpin joins Andrew Huberman to discuss How to Build Strength, Muscle Size & Endurance with science-based tools you can apply.
hubermanlab.com
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I'm obviously kidding. Do some of you actually believe there are data available to guide you in every life decision? Ever gone sky diving?
If there were zero data cold exposure did anything, I'd still recommend it.
Cold water therapy spans thousands of years and multiple cultures. So does acupuncture of course, but I've yet to recommend that to anyone bc the mechanism makes no sense to me.
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No, you're right, lol.
im not.
im not fun at parties at parties, that is.
i use data to guide medical decisions, and recommending it to patients, or exposing myself to could, would have been a medical condition....
in fact,it was 35 degrees outside this morning while i was walking my dog. i took off my coat and was about to take off my shirt when the next door neighbor came out to walk his dog.
i guess his stare was kind of refreshing...
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You're not talking about starting a medication or undergoing surgery. It's an ice bath man!
Taking your shirt off in 35 degree weather doesn't do anything for you if you're accustomed to 35 degree weather.
The chaos of cold water immersion is where the benefit is found. It's capsaicin. The magnitude of your discomfort mirrors the benefit.
Where in hell do you live where it is 35 degrees in Sept? Kill me...I don't like it colder than about 50.
The $4,990 Ice Bath (Published 2022)
Cold-plunge enthusiasts are spending big on home tubs and spa classes. Is it worth it?
Can't read article.The $4,990 Ice Bath (Published 2022)
Cold-plunge enthusiasts are spending big on home tubs and spa classes. Is it worth it?www.nytimes.com
Cost is a huge barrier. My set up is $99 for the tub and I get 80 lbs of ice for $8.
It's annoying to have to buy ice and I'd prefer a cold tub for simplicity and ease.
If I had one I'd do ice baths daily. Currently, it is cumbersome for me. I've had weeks of 5-6 ice baths, and I've had weeks where I just can't coordinate buying the ice and doing it.
Yeah, the Plunge. It's nice. Never used one but I've seen 1M ads for them and watched videos. Nice, but...5k...this is the product they are hawking
Plunge
Jump out of your comfort zone and into a cold plunge. If you change your state, you will change your life. There's no better way than with a daily cold plunge.thecoldplunge.com
