Homosexuality interview question

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As far as people "choosing" to be gay, that's dumb. People do not choose their sexuality. They just are. Where you fall on the gender spectrum and where you fall on the sexuality spectrum are in no way related to conscious decision making.


Disagree. What in the hell is this "spectrum". Either your gay/bisexual or not. I agree that people don't choose their sexuality: they are by default heterosexual. This is genetically programmed. Being gay, however, is most certainly a choice or end result from environmental factors.
 
Disagree. What in the hell is this "spectrum". Either your gay/bisexual or not. I agree that people don't choose their sexuality: they are by default heterosexual. This is genetically programmed. Being gay, however, is most certainly a choice or end result from environmental factors.

The spectrum is like the Kinsey scale: some people are 100% "gay," some are 100% "straight," and many (perhaps most) people are somewhere in-between. The word "bisexual" is nearly meaningless because it encompasses such a wide gamut of things: some bisexuals are attracted to people of the same sex more frequently than people of the opposite sex, some are more frequently attracted to people of the opposite sex, and some are equally attracted to both. You basically just made a lot of assertions that are not as obvious or as uncontestable as you are trying to make them seem. Evolutionarily speaking, I think that it would be most advantageous for everyone to be bisexual, not straight, since bisexual people can make sex-based alliances with people of both genders, and these alliances would promote their survival. So it's not unthinkable that there might be a genetic basis for bisexuality, and it's not an uncontestable fact that heterosexuality is the "default" state. Obviously, there is an element of choice involved in all our sexual decisions, regardless of whether we are gay or straight or bisexual: for example, a straight person could willfully choose to hide the fact that they were straight and feign attraction to someone of the same gender, if they felt that they had a reason to. Or they could willfully choose to be celibate. I think it's likely that the predispositions underlying our sexual choices (regardless of whether we are gay or straight or bisexual) are hard-wired, though.
 
I don't support this but research shows gays make worse doctors compared to straight people. gays sometimes get worked up with taking pics of their patients' genitalia and get distracted. this same occurrence has been found with women, which is why straight men make the best doctors. i don't support this. it's just what research shows.
 
Disagree. What in the hell is this "spectrum". Either your gay/bisexual or not. I agree that people don't choose their sexuality: they are by default heterosexual. This is genetically programmed. Being gay, however, is most certainly a choice or end result from environmental factors.

For the spectrum blurb and why the attempt to assign binary values to gender and sexuality is futile, see my earlier post on this thread or hit up Google. You can start with American Psychological Association's page on "Answers to Your Questions About Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality"...
http://www.apa.org/topics/orientation.html


What Is Sexual Orientation?
Sexual Orientation is an enduring emotional, romantic, sexual or affectional attraction to another person. It is easily distinguished from other components of sexuality including biological sex, gender identity (the psychological sense of being male or female) and the social gender role (adherence to cultural norms for feminine and masculine behavior). Sexual orientation exists along a continuum that ranges from exclusive homosexuality to exclusive heterosexuality and includes various forms of bisexuality.
As for choosing to be gay... lets say you identify as a 100% straight male. What if the other 90% of the world was gay? Could you just up and decide: "Hey, I want to be in the majority so I'll just be gay like everyone else." No. I think not. You might talk gay, act gay, even have a gay relationship that you try to maintain to stay in your straight closet. But that wouldn't make you gay. No matter how many men you made out with, you'd still be a straight guy in a gay world. You can't choose what you're attracted to. You can choose what actions you want to take (or not take), for example those poor gay bastards that think homosexuality is a sin. With incredible willpower they can avoid homosexual acts in the same way that a straight catholic priest or nun can try to avoid all sexual acts... that doesn't mean that the gay man is going to stop being attracted to men, or that the straight priest isn't going to be turned on by an attractive woman. Just like your autonomic nervous system, it is not something you can control.
 
Just out of curiosity, why did you write about being gay if you're not completely out of the closet yet? That seems sort of backwards or something. Regardless, what the interviewer did was crappy.
 
Disagree. What in the hell is this "spectrum". Either your gay/bisexual or not. I agree that people don't choose their sexuality: they are by default heterosexual. This is genetically programmed. Being gay, however, is most certainly a choice or end result from environmental factors.
You sound like our president
 
Concubine, it's not a choice. Who in their right mind would CHOOSE to be something that brings so much discrimination, hate, violence, etc., if they could just as easily be heterosexual and avoid all those problems?
 
Concubine, it's not a choice. Who in their right mind would CHOOSE to be something that brings so much discrimination, hate, violence, etc., if they could just as easily be heterosexual and avoid all those problems?

Lots of people.
 
and WAH the interviewer asked me about my gayness.
 
At some point, they choose to be homosexual. When your an adult, you do have some control over your emotions and most definitely your physical environment.
 
I don't think I choose to stare at hot girls asses all day...I have ZERO control over that to be honest.

I just don't get how you can say that with such certainty...I feel the complete opposite. If you are a guy you think you chose to be attracted to women?
 
At some point, they choose to be homosexual. When your an adult, you do have some control over your emotions and most definitely your physical environment.
Emotions + environment =/= the ability to choose your sexual orientation.

Have you ever even talked to a gay person about their orientation? I have, with a number of people, and I can tell you that every one of them has said it's more difficult and if they were attracted to the opposite sex they'd date them instead. Why do you think so many people stay in the closet? They aren't yet ready/able/willing to deal with how society will react. Nobody would think, "Hey, being gay is hard, so even though I could just as easily be straight and avoid such problems, I'm going be be gay... SECRETLY!" What you're saying just doesn't make any sense.
 
^ taken from this article

http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2006/06/the_gay_animal_kingdom.php?page=all&p=y

I doubt the Giraffes decided to have an all male orgy one day because they were bored lol.

Some of your arguments on evolution / and genetics are pretty histerical btw

Lame article. The only way behavior like that would ever evolve is if it somehow enhanced the organism's fitness. The reason most biologist don't agree with her is that her examples are outliers. My guess is she will be unsuccessful with debunking or changing Darwin's fundamental principles on natural selection.
 
I regularly post on SDN, but I don't want to post under my normal name since I have not completely come out of the closet (I am a homosexual).

I was at an interview, and we some how got on the subject of doctors treating homosexuality. I said I didn't believe that homosexuality should be looked at as a disorder since it may be genetic.

Regardless of what anyone thinks about homosexuality, that is an awful answer. Just because something is genetic does not mean its not a disorder. Polydactyly is genetic, as is tay-sachs and SCIDS.
 
Concubine I didnt even read the article...I was just making a point about the gay giraffes.

And yes BlackSails- awful awful answer
 
I normally do not post on here but after reading the recent thread I have decided to add my two cents. As a gay male currently in medical school I can attest that SOME schools do discriminate on the basis of sexuality, because of this I decided not to make my homosexuality a component of my application. Now that I am in school I find that the medical student body and most of the administration are very gay-friendly, but there are definitely older faculty of "the old vanguard" who remain closeted homophobes.

As for the appropriateness of the previously mentioned question that started this thread, it all depends on the way in which the question was asked and the tone used. Having interviewed students I could understand the argument that an question could be asked, but a question concerning such a possibly "hot topic" it would need to be done in the context of the conversation with respect. Having said that, I think that if you feel uncomfortable with how the interviewer handled your interview you should bring it up after the decision has been made. That is unless you are certain that the interviewer would severely harm your application. Its a rough situation to be in.

For the whole environment vs. genetics theory I feel the need to throw in my own opinion. There is no doubt in my mind that there is a spectrum of human sexuality. Most people fall on one end or the other, while some fall in the middle. As learned in any biology or evolution course, most traits have both a genetic and an environmental component that predisposes a person to one thing or the other. BUT just because there is an environmental piece to the whole thing DOES NOT MEAN that being gay is a choice, especially when considering such a complex issue like human sexuality. The general background story for most people that come out is "I knew something was different, tried to figure it out, thought I might be gay, tried to change it, got depressed, wasn't happy, came to terms with it, and came out." To claim that it is based on environmental issues under our control, which then makes being gay under our control, belittles those who tried so hard to accept that they are gay and have affirmed who they are. I just hope that those soon to be docs/docs in training/docs who believe that it is a choice wake up and believe those who have gone through it themselves, and acknowledge that it is not a choice. The medical profession is an ever changing field and requires compassion, empathy, understanding, and an open mind, remember that.
 
At some point, they choose to be homosexual. When your an adult, you do have some control over your emotions and most definitely your physical environment.

As many people have already said above, all sexual behaviors involve some element of choice. Even if you are 100% heterosexual, you must eventually make a choice about whether to be monogamous or polygamous, sexually active or celibate, etc. Everybody, regardless of sexual orientation, has some ability to choose how they will behave sexually; the important fact that you're ignoring, though, is that none of us has any ability to choose the underlying predispositions that guide our choices. It's very difficult to act in a way that is opposite to one's underlying predispositions; for example, it'd be very difficult for an average heterosexual person to decide to be celibate for the rest of their life, and I certainly wouldn't recommend that every heterosexual person in the world try to do so. In any case, as far as I'm aware, there's absolutely no evidence that homosexual behaviors involve a greater degree of choice than heterosexual behaviors do, so I think it's silly to single out homosexuals and say that their sexuality is a "choice" whereas your sexuality is "genetically predetermined."

With regard to all this talk about how homosexuality could evolve, in addition to the many theories already mentioned in this thread, there exists another theory that states that a person's homosexuality might increase their siblings' reproductive fitness even if it doesn't increase the homosexual person's own reproductive fitness. If you google "evolution and homosexuality," you can read about a study that showed that the sisters of homosexual men tend to bear more children than the sisters of heterosexual men, for example. This is just one of many theories that might explain how a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality could evolve. My intent is not to endorse any particular theory but to mention several extant theories in order to counter certain people's assertions that homosexuality must be a choice because there's no way that it could possibly evolve.
 
I was recently accepted to the MSTP at University of Pittsburgh. In my secondary application I wrote quite openly about coming out. I am the counterexample?

Also as far as choice: I could choose not to have sex at all, but I could not choose to have sex with a woman. I oughtn't get into the mechanics of that here, though, for reasons of decorum. Having gay sex may be a "choice" (in the same way that having straight sex is a "choice"), but being gay in and of itself is NOT.

Also, for those questioning an evolutionary machination behind homosexuality, ponder this: why do heterosexual men or women join celibate clergy organizations when, clearly, they would be inhibiting their own fitness? If behavior is biologically based, why would the human brain function to allow such a thing if the whole point of existence is for each and every person to pass on his or her genes? The point: it's important to avoid rationalizing evolution/natural selection with Kipling-esque just-so stories. Evolution is nothing more than the change in allelic frequencies in a population across generations; that does not in any way necessarily impute a justification. Natural selection is one mechanism of evolution, but clearly there are others--including, but not limited to, genetic drift, gene flow, etc. which are not necessarily influenced by natural selection. So be careful when retroactively assigning rationales to an essentially undirected process--as Leslie Orgel said, "Evolution is cleverer than you are."
 
none of this really matters though, because simply put, homosexuality is not a disorder. whether inherited, produced by environmental factors or "chosen", it is not a "problem" or illness. there are no direct health/psych issues related to being homosexual, thus it can't be labeled a disorder. there's nothing to "treat." and in response to lukkie, it was removed from the dsm by the same psychiatrists and phd's that wrote the rest of the dsm because research suggested there was a strong biological basis and that it was in no way a disorder ... not to appease the pc public.

Debates in this country around homosexual rights often circle around whether or not homosexuality is a "choice." some folks feel that if it's just a choice - like smoking or being fat or being addicted to drugs or gambling - then it's ok to discriminate. research shows that there's a biological basis for all these things ... regardless, there's no good reason to discriminate against anyone for anything. period.

These two paragraphs summarize my feelings. Homosexuality may very well be a deviation from the mean but is that sufficient to characterize it as a disorder? I would have to agree that it is not.

Also, whether homosexuality is a choice or predetermined is largely irrelevant to me. Personal I believe it is not a choice, and this seems to be well supported by research, but even if it were a lifestyle choice so what?
 
Sociobiological explanations for homosexuality are not empirically supported.

Male homosexuality is the result of psychological dispositions:

1. Since the psychological structures of males are different than females in respect to their needs in an romantic relationship, both in the initiation and its maintenance, males are either better able to fulfill a male or a female's desires in a romantic relationship, depending on particular psychological disposition. Generally speaking, a male will be best suited for a female and vice versa, but when this is not the case, homosexuality is a possibility. The cause of this is merely a deviation from the gendered psychological mean as biologically and culturally specified for male gender. The cause of this deviation is unclear, but surely it is the confluence of polygenic dispositional and developmental factors. Also, there is also the possibility that a male may be suited for neither sex in romantic relationships, in which case, perpetual celebacy is a possibility, or else exclusive sporadic short-term romantic engagements, depending upon the male's other qualities.

2. In addition to capacity to fulfill the needs of the female vis-a-vis the male's romantic needs, the male himself has his own desires. If these desires are better met by a male than a female, then homosexuality is a possibility. Again, what a male or female may give the male are generally specific to the gender, and so the forms of emotional intimacy offered by each particular gender will be distinct (though somewhat variable, as implied above). Again, as in 1, someone may have needs that cannot be fulfilled by either sex, in which case, the result is celibacy.

Sex is not purely physical or else masturbation would be perfectly sufficient. The presence of a body is not the source of pleasure but rather the source of meanings encompassed by the sexual interaction, which while they heighten the physical intimacy itself, do so through the satisfaction of basic psychological needs. Sex with males versus females is different in respect to this and the needs they fulfill. But perhaps more importantly, it is probably the pre-sexual interactions that fulfill the psychological needs vaguely alluded to above (which are too complicated to talk about; this post is already too long) moreso than the actual consummation.

Of those on the borderline between desiring what males and females can psychologically give, or those on the borderline between being able to offer males vs. females the fulfillment of psychological needs, the process of "finding one's identity" can be more drawn out, with a certain persistent bisexuality the consequence. Those on one end of the spectrum or the other will find it easier to "find one's identity" and so will require less thought in order to do so. Also, identities do change, and people have their "homosexual periods" and then switch to "heterosexual identities," and vice versa. I do take issue with the notion that someone is dispositionally straight or gay. I see it as dispositional with room for movement depending upon psychological development and social context, and I'm supported in this versus a black-and-white perspective.

At some point, many of us wonder whether we're straight or gay, or worry about being gay, and attempt to vitriolically exclude the possibility of homosexuality from the possibility of our identities out of fear of being gay. This is partly what constitutes homophobia, and this is part of the reason that you will find men acting aggressively against one implying they might be gay (though there is also the possibility of social injunction, which is a good reason to deny homosexuality).

How are genetics involved? That is anyone's guess, really. I could probably advance several theories, which would not be traditionally sociobiological. A simple postulation that a highly adaptive and adaptable cerebral cortex that could dispose someone to sexual relations with their own gender is probably sufficient, since homosexuality does not sufficiently counterbalance the enormous success that our cortical adaptability has given us to make this complex cortex maladaptive. Homosexuality could be the reproductive price that some individuals pay for our complex humanity.

I do think the decision of what constitutes one's identity inextricably involves agency, since it is the necessary suppression of other possibly existing identities, of which at various developmental points in our lives we have many. And I would hate to think that anything that I am does not at some level constitute a choice, and this involves my own heterosexuality. According to this schema, then, I think I hold homosexuals to choosing their identities as well. If I was gay, I'd certainly say I chose it. There are homosexual groups who, by the way, take this stance, so I don't think it is a matter of pure disposition vs. choice as the argument is made to be, but rather there are a multitude of perspectives to consider.
 
I regularly post on SDN, but I don't want to post under my normal name since I have not completely come out of the closet (I am a homosexual).

I was at an interview, and we some how got on the subject of doctors treating homosexuality. I said I didn't believe that homosexuality should be looked at as a disorder since it may be genetic. He asked me "how homosexuality would evolve if it was genetic". I gave a pretty good answer (I think), but he asked it in a really condescending way. Overall, I think his attitude towards me was hostile. I'm worried now that I won't get in because I mentioned I was gay in my personal statement. Should I call the school and complain? I have very good STATS and got positive feedback on my personal statement from other schools.

Just in case you ever get asked that same question again...

I read that homosexuality was more common in men with older brothers, and that they thought it had to do with some pregnant mothers' bodies' immune systems reacting to a familiar type of foreignness ("There's something with a Y chromosome in my body - again!!!"). If you've ever read about how people get allergies, this should make sense to you. Having an altered womb-environment would cause those embryos to develop differently, and it might change the regulation of some genes later on in life.

So, maybe homosexuality isn't purely a genetic thing, but it's definitely still natural, and there's no way natural selection would be able to eliminate it.
 
As many people have already said above, all sexual behaviors involve some element of choice. Even if you are 100% heterosexual, you must eventually make a choice about whether to be monogamous or polygamous, sexually active or celibate, etc. Everybody, regardless of sexual orientation, has some ability to choose how they will behave sexually; the important fact that you're ignoring, though, is that none of us has any ability to choose the underlying predispositions that guide our choices. It's very difficult to act in a way that is opposite to one's underlying predispositions; for example, it'd be very difficult for an average heterosexual person to decide to be celibate for the rest of their life, and I certainly wouldn't recommend that every heterosexual person in the world try to do so. In any case, as far as I'm aware, there's absolutely no evidence that homosexual behaviors involve a greater degree of choice than heterosexual behaviors do, so I think it's silly to single out homosexuals and say that their sexuality is a "choice" whereas your sexuality is "genetically predetermined."

With regard to all this talk about how homosexuality could evolve, in addition to the many theories already mentioned in this thread, there exists another theory that states that a person's homosexuality might increase their siblings' reproductive fitness even if it doesn't increase the homosexual person's own reproductive fitness. If you google "evolution and homosexuality," you can read about a study that showed that the sisters of homosexual men tend to bear more children than the sisters of heterosexual men, for example. This is just one of many theories that might explain how a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality could evolve. My intent is not to endorse any particular theory but to mention several extant theories in order to counter certain people's assertions that homosexuality must be a choice because there's no way that it could possibly evolve.

Now that is interesting, and frankly the first good evidence I've at least heard on this thread (in addition to synth's). Something like inclusive fitness would make sense. That would mean someone that is gay does not have a fitness of zero. That would also explain a persistence of a gay gene in the population. I don't know if any studies have looked into this however and I am still skeptical.

All I'm saying is the spectrum thing doesn't make very much sense in evolutionary terms. The basic principle is maximizing your fitness, which for most species is maximizing the number of offspring they can successfully raise. Most organisms do this by mating with as many females as possible. Being gay would be a horrible adaptation if maximizing your reproductive fitness is one of Evolution's premises. Although human sexuality is complex, I don't think it is any more complex than any other higher mammal's reproductive behaviors.
 
Now that is interesting, and frankly the first good evidence I've at least heard on this thread (in addition to synth's). Something like inclusive fitness would make sense. That would mean someone that is gay does not have a fitness of zero. That would also explain a persistence of a gay gene in the population. I don't know if any studies have looked into this however and I am still skeptical.

All I'm saying is the spectrum thing doesn't make very much sense in evolutionary terms. The basic principle is maximizing your fitness, which for most species is maximizing the number of offspring they can successfully raise. Most organisms do this by mating with as many females as possible. Being gay would be a horrible adaptation if maximizing your reproductive fitness is one of Evolution's premises. Although human sexuality is complex, I don't think it is any more complex than any other higher mammal's reproductive behaviors.

Consider the possibility that homosexuality may be genetic, but not inherited. I read an article suggesting that the more older brothers a man has, the more likely he will be gay. The theory is that the mother is more likely to mount an immune response against some uniqely male characteristic during fetal development:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5120004.stm

I'll concede that it is just a theory and fails to explain lesbianism, but it does get you thinking oustide terms of Darwinian evolution...
 
Male homosexuality is the result of psychological dispositions:

Every single gay person I have ever heard of or known usually had a messed up or incomplete family growing up or were social outcasts in middle/high school. This points to environment all the way. I just don't buy into the argument that people can be homosexual by default.
 
Every single gay person I have ever heard of or known usually had a messed up or incomplete family growing up or were social outcasts in middle/high school. This points to environment all the way. I just don't buy into the argument that people can be homosexual by default.

What a poor basis for an argument.
 
Every single gay person I have ever heard of or known usually had a messed up or incomplete family growing up or were social outcasts in middle/high school. This points to environment all the way. I just don't buy into the argument that people can be homosexual by default.

Every single PERSON I know of has an imperfect or incomplete family in some way. Whether they exaggerate, are being dramatic, or honestly did have a "messed up" family life, most everyone can say that they had issues at home. I have great parents and successful siblings, but even I had problems as a kid.

Even if homosexuals are "more messed up" than straight people, you can't say that they're gay BECAUSE of it. It's more likely the other way around; the internal struggle that comes with realizing half of the world thinks you're evil can cause depression and make you feel ostracized from society. And honestly, who didn't consider themselves an outcast at some point during school?
 
What a poor basis for an argument.

Read earlier posts... this is not my basis, just further evidence of environmental factors that may contribute. My base argument is purely biological.
 
Every single PERSON I know of has an imperfect or incomplete family in some way. Whether they exaggerate, are being dramatic, or honestly did have a "messed up" family life, most everyone can say that they had issues at home. I have great parents and successful siblings, but even I had problems as a kid.

Even if homosexuals are "more messed up" than straight people, you can't say that they're gay BECAUSE of it. It's more likely the other way around; the internal struggle that comes with realizing half of the world thinks you're evil can cause depression and make you feel ostracized from society. And honestly, who didn't consider themselves an outcast at some point during school?

I didn't claim they were "more messed up", I claimed the environment they grew up in is relatively dysfunctional. I do not make any claims about homosexuals other than I think it is a result of environmental factors, not genetic.
 
I didn't claim they were "more messed up", I claimed the environment they grew up in is relatively dysfunctional. I do not make any claims about homosexuals other than I think it is a result of environmental factors, not genetic.

Every single gay person I have ever heard of or known usually had a messed up or incomplete family growing up or were social outcasts in middle/high school. This points to environment all the way. I just don't buy into the argument that people can be homosexual by default.

what about the fact that being openly gay at age 12 or 13 is completely "impossible" in most places in this country? ... you can get beat up, taunted or worse. middle/high school aged kids are mean to everyone and especially mean to someone who doesn't fit in. almost all gay folks I know have said that from very early on they knew something was up - in before middle school or before. check this out (and the other two links in my previous post). it's outdated but still interesting:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&uid=6693867&cmd=showdetailview&indexed=google

homosexuality has been "reported" in every society for as long as their has been recorded history. the whole the "broken home" or "mommy didn't love me enough" theories cannot explain why there were gay pharaohs in Egypt back in 2000BC .... the genetic predisposition/prenatal androgen theory can. and please consider that genetics in humans are subtle and complicated enough to NOT follow some simple darwinian playbook like "sharp teeth are good for eating beef jerky. great, great Granpappy Witherspoon had a mutation that gave him sharp pointy teeth. He ate lots of beef jerky and had lotsa kids. Now there's lots of sharp-toothed Witherspoon descendants thriving away in 2007." it can be a little more complicated. there are a ton things which are genetically regulated and predisposed that nobody has a grasp on ... try gene imprinting, for example. 80 years and still no great evolutionary theory (sorry, the haig hypotheses ain't cutting it). there is a genetic link to many things that don't make a lot of sense evolutionarily (like being able to roll your tongue, as i said before, or color blindness and male pattern baldness in men). For anything to persist over thousands of years regardless of culture or society then there must be some "genetic" mechanism for it to occur. how else can you explain it? these genetic links may be as simple as an increased likelihood for a specific brain development "irregularity" to occur caused by a certain set of alleles in many of mom's genes. it doesn't have to a "gay gene" that is inherited directly and "causes" homosexuality.

As one of the articles in my previous post mentioned ( http://www.livescience.com/health/060224_gay_genes.html ) the genetics involved in predisposing for homosexuality may belong to the mother of a homosexual child. You could say that the changes in brain development occur during while the child is in utero and are thus environmental. but this is not to be confused with "environmental" factors like a broken home or taking drama classes. brain development is humans is very complex. subtle changes in hormone levels at the right or wrong times can have big effects. you may consider the fact that once established, certain brain characteristics are near impossible to change. One study (back in the day when the attitudes were different) said that the " successful correction" rate for trying to reverse homosexuality was between 0 and 0.1% ... if it was simply a product of environmental factors (like a rough childhood) or choice then you'd expect it to be much higher.
 
Perhaps you should think about what you say before you say it. That's a terrible stereotype, and exactly one of the reasons why people don't feel so accepted.

Agreed. I know someone who is gay at our med school. I first started talking to them o n here. He's a nice guy and if he did't say he was gay, I'd not know it because he does not have that stereotype that some of the other gays I've known in mylife have had. In fact, I wouldn't say there's anything obvious about his sexuality.
 
A lot of contributers on this thread are not really helping our concerned friend who is worried about his troubling interview experience. I'm not going to say something bigoted or yell at someone else for being bigoted. In general, some of the comments I've seen have really made me frightened for future patients of some of you. You need to keep an open mind to treat a diverse patient pool that you will undoubtedly encounter while working in the USA.

SJDOG:

I don't think any of us really know the purpose behind the interview process. Some think it is a time to separate yourself from the pack. Others think that its only purpose is to confirm that you are the person you say you are on paper. I think we can all agree on one point: you wouldn't be at the interview in the first place if you were not a potential candidate considering your stats, your PS, your references, and your ECs. The school knows that you are homosexual if you mentioned it in your PS, and they are still considering your app, and that is an encouraging thought.

I'd agree with the view that the interviewer was hostile based on his assumption that homosexuality needed to be "treated". However, the only thing you should really be concerned about is how you responded to his question. If you had a thoughtful answer, then the interviewer will have to respect that. He is not going to return to the adcom and say, "Oh this guy is gay". Even if he did, they wouldn't care because they already knew that and think you're a good applicant.

I've never really faced this kind of discrimination, so I cannot truly empathize. However, I wish you the best of luck and encourage you to not to over stress about it. It is over, and I hope that some of the other opinions on this thread can help you decide how you will respond.
 
Did I miss something? Where is he discriminating against you on the basis of sexual orientation? It sounds to me like he was hating on your terrible answer. Your "homosexuality shouldn't be looked at as a disorder since it may be genetic" answer was ludicrous. Should depression or cystic fibrosis not be looked at as a disorder since it may be genetic? (Note- I am not saying it should be treated like a disorder, just that the OP's reasoning was horrible.)

Your evidence of discrimination is his "hostile" attitude? Please. So everytime someone is hostile to you it is because you are gay? Some people are just really condescending and rude (especially true for doctors). Unless you can tie the attitude to your sexual preference then you shouldn't contact the school. You will look like a soft fool.


Best response in the whole thread....
The OP assumed that he would get some sort of sympathy for coming out of the closet and mentioning it in ur personal statment....
 
I agree with the consensus of not bringing up anything in your PS or interviews that you don't want to be asked more about.

I hope the negative vibes weren't because of the interviewer suspecting you are gay. Maybe he/she wasn't impressed with your argument in general.

At any rate, you should consider coming out if you want to gain more support for your endeavors.
 
maybe this interviewer is just an a$$hole to pretty much everyone--there are definitely interviewers at my school who have that reputation.


in any case--it's usually possible to request another interview but i don't know if it's too late in your case.
 
well im just saying, if he comes crying here after the interview instead of having plowed through the interviewer, one can only wonder when he starts seeing patients, many of whom no doubt will be reluctant to be operated on by a homosexual (would you let your son get a physical by a gay doctor? HES TOUCHING YOUR SONS BALLS 😡 ) how he will handle it.

That's ridiculous reasoning. Females go to straight male OB/GYNs all the time and don't worry about their male doctor being turned on by their parts. Men go to straight female urologist (yes, there are a few out there) as well.
 
Every single gay person I have ever heard of or known usually had a messed up or incomplete family growing up or were social outcasts in middle/high school. This points to environment all the way. I just don't buy into the argument that people can be homosexual by default.


This really isn't very good reasoning. I have at least 3 good friends from different places who are gay and have very supportive families. Their childhoods were just as happy as and complete as anyone elses. They are certainly not social outcasts. If messed up childhoods caused homosexuality, I would guess that the average American man would be a lot better dressed 😉
 
Every single gay person I have ever heard of or known usually had a messed up or incomplete family growing up or were social outcasts in middle/high school. This points to environment all the way. I just don't buy into the argument that people can be homosexual by default.

You are truly a troglodyte. Do you know what "attribution bias" means? Given the level of understanding of which you seem capable (i.e., cannot even distinguish personal prejudice from substantiatable scientific evidence), I fear for any future patient who might seek your counsel. Is your next stop the Underrepresented in Medicine forum to quote from The Bell Curve?

My parents have been happily married for 27 years. Neither of them drinks, they have never struck me or my sister, and have been incredibly supportive and loving my entire life. One might say they are the paradigm of what good parents should be. And yet I'm gay! There's the counterexample to disprove your crackpot theory.
 
Disagree. What in the hell is this "spectrum". Either your gay/bisexual or not. I agree that people don't choose their sexuality: they are by default heterosexual. This is genetically programmed. Being gay, however, is most certainly a choice or end result from environmental factors.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Shall we bring in the number of teen suicides in this nation a year brought on by alternative sexuality? Boy, you'd think that if you could choose to be gay, you could choose not to be gay.
 
Best response in the whole thread....
The OP assumed that he would get some sort of sympathy for coming out of the closet and mentioning it in ur personal statment....

The word "disorder," when related to sexuality, implies more than simply "unnatural." To claim that homosexuality is a "disorder," in our society, is also to claim that it is "immoral."

I believe that is what this person was responding to. Therefore, to say that homosexuality is not a "disorder" because it is "genetic" is his inarticulate way of saying that homosexuality cannot be considered immoral because it is the result of biological development (including environmental factors).

Do not attack his logic, attack his way of articulating perfect logic 🙂

To the OP: You are not alone, and you will be fine.
 
Give me a good explanation on how being gay is due to genetics and I will happily debate with you. Otherwise, your arguments are useless. If it's not genetics, then it's environmental and you would be foolish to think that there isn't an element of choice in your environmental exposure.
 
Give me a good explanation on how being gay is due to genetics and I will happily debate with you. Otherwise, your arguments are useless. If it's not genetics, then it's environmental and you would be foolish to think that there isn't an element of choice in your environmental exposure.

I am not saying it is purely genetic, and I think you are foolish for asserting that there is an element of choice in who you are born to and where you are raised as a child.

However, the end result of genetic factors, that is, physiological makeup, of homosexual men are markedly different than straight men. Facial bone structure, levels of testosterone, average penis size, and many neurological factors such as the size of the amygdala and some prefrontal regions all have statistically-significant variance between the two groups. Easy search on pubmed for those who make wild claims without any previous research.
 
Give me a good explanation on how being gay is due to genetics and I will happily debate with you. Otherwise, your arguments are useless. If it's not genetics, then it's environmental and you would be foolish to think that there isn't an element of choice in your environmental exposure.

So just because there doesn't exist a fully fledged explanation to a phenomenon as yet means it does not exist? Is cancer just a state of mind then? Is dark matter just an Asimovian ruse? How can one be so colorblind?

Take type 2 diabetes, for example. Certainly there is an environmental influence at play, but does one choose to become diabetic? If they did, why are not all obese Americans diabetic, then?
 
Even if homosexuality was a choice, in what way is this an immoral choice (neglecting the disutility one brings upon oneself)?

What general characteristics of a homosexual being makes him or her so reprehensible?
 
Probably the whole biblical thing plays into it...
 
If I understand your argument correctly, you are ultimately saying that being homosexual, like being heterosexual, can be the default genetic programming prior to any environmental exposure that could alter this state?

If so, please explain to me how a genetic base for behavior that ultimately results in a fitness of "0" would evolve through natural selection.

Note: I am not arguing that certain genetic makeups can facilitate an increased tendency to be homosexual, but that these genes, if they do exist, are not a result of natural selection towards homosexuality (acknowledging that there are outliers).
 
You are truly a troglodyte. Do you know what "attribution bias" means? Given the level of understanding of which you seem capable (i.e., cannot even distinguish personal prejudice from substantiatable scientific evidence), I fear for any future patient who might seek your counsel. Is your next stop the Underrepresented in Medicine forum to quote from The Bell Curve?

No need for the personal attacks.
 
Even if homosexuality was a choice, in what way is this an immoral choice (neglecting the disutility one brings upon oneself)?

What general characteristics of a homosexual being makes him or her so reprehensible?

And this, really, is the end of the debate.

I challenge anybody to find me a homosexual physician, male or female, that is incapable of the challenges of the profession because of their sexual orientation.

I would argue that being homosexual is advantageous in certain respects, as it offers diversity both to one's colleagues and one's patients, as well as offering that person insight into what it means to be discriminated against. That would have a tendency to instill compassion, no?
 
If I understand your argument correctly, you are ultimately saying that being homosexual, like being heterosexual, can be the default genetic programming prior to any environmental exposure that could alter this state?

If so, please explain to me how a genetic base for behavior that ultimately results in a fitness of "0" would evolve through natural selection.

Note: I am not arguing that certain genetic makeups can facilitate an increased tendency to be homosexual, but that these genes, if they do exist, are not a result of natural selection towards homosexuality (acknowledging that there are outliers).

You choose your words very carefully.

You seem to be implying that there is a "gay gene" that has some sort of ethereal intention to turn someone gay. I would say, rather, that natural variance in genes that lead to physiological makeup predispose one to being gay.

An example. I am assuming that you are of above-average intelligence, given your participation on this forum. You were gifted with a number of genetic factors that predisposed you to such an intelligence: brain density factors, synaptic fluidity, stronger or more efficient long and short-term memory mechanisms. Certainly, the opportunities given to you - a loving, upper middle class family and a good education - fostered and grew your intellect. But you did not "choose" to be that way: what was fostered with the education that you or your parents chose for you was merely refining a physiological framework that has always existed.

I am saying that it is wholly possible that this is the case with homosexuality. Given the differences between homosexual and heterosexual men (2D:4D Finger ratios just came to mind, Dr. Marc Breedlove), the physiological framework seems to be there. Work inductively back to the obvious conclusion: there is a genetic predisposition towards homosexuality.

Given that there are probably a wide variety of genes that predispose one to homosexuality, there is little to your argument regarding natural selection. Think of it this way. You need genes aa, bb, cc, and dd, together, to be predisposed to homosexuality. Gene aa, on it's own, leads to certain advantageous variances in the brain. Gene bb, advantages on its own elsewhere. So on, so forth. Each gene, on its own, is evolutionarily advantageous to be passed down, increasing that organism's fitness. Is it so hard to imagine an aabbccdd genotype, or AaBbCcDd, or AABBCCDD, or any permutation thereof?

Even better, what if you had aaBBccdd? Is it possible that you are then predisposed to homosexuality, but to a lesser extent? Hell if I know. But there is logic behind the notion.
 
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