honest advice needed

[salty baby]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I'm trying to decide if I should apply for DO schools this 2018 cycle, or try and get more clinical experience and apply in 2019. I have a relatively low GPA (3.25 cumulative, 3.1 science), but I did show an upward trend especially in my last year and a half. I have pretty good MCAT at least for a DO applicant (512: 125/128/128/131).

I have basically no extracurriculars/research, but I do have about 40 hours of shadowing finished with both DO's and MD's. I did work in a medical office for a summer, but doing paperwork (little patient interaction)

I don't have my LOR's secured yet, but I think I should be able to get 1 DO and 1 science professor.

 

[CJhooper123]

Tough call - people might disagree w/ me here. I would recommend waiting until the 2019 cycle. Try getting as much clinical experience as possible in the next year and really secure those LOR. Also, it wouldn't be a bad idea to take some "upper level science courses" to improve that GPA a little.

Based on what I have heard, having secondaries in after thanksgiving is considered "late" for DO.

 

[mc_bio19]

I have to agree with above. I would work on getting more clinical experience, specifically volunteering if you can because it sounds like you don't have any. Your MCAT is great for DO schools, but I think your ECs need a little more work. Plus, you can always get LORs out of your clinical experiences.

 

[rufflev]

Applying without extracurriculars (clinical/non-clinical) can be lethal to your application. Take a year off, acquire both clinical and non-clinical volunteer experience - you can even do this through working, e.g. scribe or medical assistant. Further, as the previous posters have mentioned, it gives you time to gather LoRs.

 

[workaholic181]

I'm trying to decide if I should apply for DO schools this 2018 cycle, or try and get more clinical experience and apply in 2019. I have a relatively low GPA (3.25 cumulative, 3.1 science), but I did show an upward trend especially in my last year and a half. I have pretty good MCAT at least for a DO applicant (512: 125/128/128/131).

I have basically no extracurriculars/research, but I do have about 40 hours of shadowing finished with both DO's and MD's. I did work in a medical office for a couple of summers, but doing paperwork (little patient interaction)

I don't have my LOR's secured yet, but I think I should be able to get 1 DO and 1 science professor. Getting a second letter from a professor would be hard for me b/c i've been of of school for ~2 yrs.

Thanks for reading

I would wait OP. Your MCAT is high for DO programs by in large but the rest of your app is incomplete at this point. You need more clinical hours, volunteering, etc.

 

[salty baby]

okay, thanks guys. so the main thing I'm hearing is that I need more EC's/clinical experience. Having already graduated, does it matter to adcoms if what i'm doing is volunteer or paid?

Also, is there any sort or portal/website that would be useful for finding volunteer/clinical experience, particularly in SoCal? I've applied to be a scribe at ScribeAmerica and Elite Medical Scribes, but haven't had any luck so far.

Also, I'd prefer not to do more classes at university if I can help it (I just can't afford it atm). Will my GPA be a killer if I apply right now?

 

[Doogie.Howser]

okay, thanks guys. so the main thing I'm hearing is that I need more EC's/clinical experience. Having already graduated, does it matter to adcoms if what i'm doing is volunteer or paid? Money isn't really a necessity for me, but obviously would be nice.

Also, is there any sort or portal/website that would be useful for finding volunteer/clinical experience, particularly in SoCal? I've applied to be a scribe at ScribeAmerica and Elite Medical Scribes, but haven't had any luck so far.

I read this post this morning: Volunteering vs Work Experience as a Pre Med

It would be worth reading for you to get a few adcoms take on volunteer vs work.

 

[Goro]

I'm trying to decide if I should apply for DO schools this 2018 cycle, or try and get more clinical experience and apply in 2019. I have a relatively low GPA (3.25 cumulative, 3.1 science), but I did show an upward trend especially in my last year and a half. I have pretty good MCAT at least for a DO applicant (512: 125/128/128/131).

I have basically no extracurriculars/research, but I do have about 40 hours of shadowing finished with both DO's and MD's. I did work in a medical office for a couple of summers, but doing paperwork (little patient interaction)

I don't have my LOR's secured yet, but I think I should be able to get 1 DO and 1 science professor. Getting a second letter from a professor would be hard for me b/c i've been of of school for ~2 yrs.

Thanks for reading

Yes, you need DO schools on the list. While there are MD schools that reward reinvention, you can't take chances. Do you really want to waste a year reapplying and lose some $200K in future salary?

1.5 years of upward trend will probably not be enough o prove reinvention, and the 512 MCAT might work for your state MD schools, but I'm not sanguine for the others that reward reinvention.

have basically no extracurriculars/research,
This is lethal...you need to get these experience in. Research is not important for DO schools.

 

[salty baby]

Yes, you need DO schools on the list. While there are MD schools that reward reinvention, you can't take chances. Do you really want to waste a year reapplying and lose some $200K in future salary?

1.5 years of upward trend will probably not be enough o prove reinvention, and the 512 MCAT might work for your state MD schools, but I'm not sanguine for the others that reward reinvention.

have basically no extracurriculars/research,
This is lethal...you need to get these experience in. Research is not important for DO schools.

Sorry I wasn't clear in my main post: I'm planning on only applying for DO schools. I'm trying to decide if I want to apply this year or next.

Also, do you have any suggestions on what experience to look for? i'm a post-grad with no hospital/research experience

 

[Goro]

Sorry I wasn't clear in my main post: I'm planning on only applying for DO schools. I'm trying to decide if I want to apply this year or next.

Also, do you have any suggestions on what experience to look for? i'm a post-grad with no hospital/research experience

Not all volunteering needs to be in a hospital. Think hospice, Planned Parenthood, nursing homes, rehab facilities, crisis hotlines, camps for sick children, or clinics.

Some types of volunteer activities are more appealing than others. Volunteering in a nice suburban hospital is all very well and good and all, but doesn't show that you're willing to dig in and get your hands dirty in the same way that working with the developmentally disabled (or homeless, the dying, or Alzheimers or mentally ill or elderly or ESL or domestic, rural impoverished) does. The uncomfortable situations are the ones that really demonstrate your altruism and get you 'brownie points'. Plus, they frankly teach you more -- they develop your compassion and humanity in ways comfortable situations can't.


Service need not be "unique". If you can alleviate suffering in your community through service to the poor, homeless, illiterate, fatherless, etc, you are meeting an otherwise unmet need and learning more about the lives of the people (or types of people) who will someday be your patients. Check out your local houses of worship for volunteer opportunities. The key thing is service to others less fortunate than you. And get off campus and out of your comfort zone!

Examples include: Habitat for Humanity, Ronald McDonald House, Humane Society, crisis hotlines, soup kitchen, food pantry, homeless or women’s shelter, after-school tutoring for students or coaching a sport in a poor school district, teaching ESL to adults at a community center, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, or Meals on Wheels.

 

[dial1010usa]

I will disagree with almost everyone above. The only issue will be that you don't have LOR from DO and teachers. You must have LORs. I would apply to 3-4 schools where you want to go. Your MCAT is stellar and that will oversee lot of stuff. Apply asap and in the meantime get LORs from DO, teachers and your employer if you are working currently. Don't wait for a year. Sometime you have to gamble. Keep in mind you will be reapplicant for those schools if you you don't get in. Keep doing volunteer and shadow DR.

 

[salty baby]

I will disagree with almost everyone above. The only issue will be that you don't have LOR from DO and teachers. You must have LORs. I would apply to 3-4 schools where you want to go. Your MCAT is stellar and that will oversee lot of stuff. Apply asap and in the meantime get LORs from DO, teachers and your employer if you are working currently. Don't wait for a year. Sometime you have to gamble. Keep in mind you will be reapplicant for those schools if you you don't get in. Keep doing volunteer and shadow DR.

Are there any cons to being a reapplicant?

 

[dial1010usa]

Are there any cons to being a reapplicant?

The schools would like to know what have you done in that one year. You basically need to explain you are re-applicant and what have you done since then.
Have you taken any classes during this time?
Have you done more EC?
Any other improvement like work/volunteer etc etc?

 

[Rhabdoviridae]

Go MD or not at all. You have a reasonable chance of getting into allopathic programs with your credentials. Make sure to apply broadly. You also do not need any clinical experience to get into a osteopathic program. I got into several programs with 0 hours of community service and no research or hospital exposure whatsoever. You also learn absolutely nothing from typical pre-med extracurricular activities anyway.

 

[Coltuna]

Go MD or not at all. You have a reasonable chance of getting into allopathic programs with your credentials. Make sure to apply broadly. You also do not need any clinical experience to get into a osteopathic program. I got into several programs with 0 hours of community service and no research or hospital exposure whatsoever. You also learn absolutely nothing from typical pre-med extracurricular activities anyway.

This is very bad advice.

OP, if you're set on applying this cycle, you should apply broadly to only DO schools. You're late for the MD cycle especially since you don't have any LOR's secured. EC's are important and given your low(ish) GPA, you should try to secure some healthcare experience over the next year and apply early next year to a broad range of DO schools.

 

[HanSoloYolo]

Go MD or not at all. You have a reasonable chance of getting into allopathic programs with your credentials. Make sure to apply broadly. You also do not need any clinical experience to get into a osteopathic program. I got into several programs with 0 hours of community service and no research or hospital exposure whatsoever. You also learn absolutely nothing from typical pre-med extracurricular activities anyway.

Real bad advice coming from a Caribbean student. I don't understand why you would come to an osteopathic forum to say 'Go MD or not at all'? Are you that bitter that you transferred out of a DO program to go to the Caribbean?

OP you have a great MCAT, go secure those LORs and improve your app all around.

 

[Rhabdoviridae]

Real bad advice coming from a Caribbean student. I don't understand why you would come to an osteopathic forum to say 'Go MD or not at all'? Are you that bitter that you transferred out of a DO program to go to the Caribbean?

OP you have a great MCAT, go secure those LORs and improve your app all around.

No, just after spending two years at a DO school, I realize how inferior my training was there. Sure I scored well on the USMLE step 1 and COMLEX but I taught myself everything. The school did nothing for me.

 

[Coltuna]

No, just after spending two years at a DO school, I realize how inferior my training was there. Sure I scored well on the USMLE step 1 and COMLEX but I taught myself everything. The school did nothing for me.

What school did you attend if you don't mind me asking

 

[Rhabdoviridae]

It was a school in the western half of the country. I would rather not give the exact name publicly to protect my anonymity. PM me and I will tell you if you'd like.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Your MCAT is stellar and that will oversee lot of stuff.

MCAT is great, but definitely won't overshadow not having ECs.

Are there any cons to being a reapplicant?

Yes, your chances of acceptance tend to decrease statistically.

Go MD or not at all. You have a reasonable chance of getting into allopathic programs with your credentials. Make sure to apply broadly. You also do not need any clinical experience to get into a osteopathic program. I got into several programs with 0 hours of community service and no research or hospital exposure whatsoever. You also learn absolutely nothing from typical pre-med extracurricular activities anyway.

lol, yeah no. I'm shocked you haven't been banned yet. This is your worst advice to date and the worst I have seen on SDN in quite some time.

No, just after spending two years at a DO school, I realize how inferior my training was there. Sure I scored well on the USMLE step 1 and COMLEX but I taught myself everything. The school did nothing for me.

Well yeah it's called studying. It's the same way everywhere, if people expect to learn anything from class it should only be that class is worthless. Sorry but I have lots of friends at high quality MD schools and they have the same complaints as everyone else about their schools that a lot of DO students here express.

The pre-clinical years could be done with a one room shack and a computer.

What school did you attend if you don't mind me asking

i'm interested in this too. First time I've heard of this.

Ignore him.

 

[salty baby]

Thanks for the all advice guys, I really appreciate it

After hearing the advice in this thread, i'm about 95% sure I'll just apply for the 2019 cycle. I'm pretty set on DO for now, and have no plans on applying for allopathic. I have a meeting with the dean of the DO school that I really want to go to (family connection), who said he'll look over my profile with me, so I'll probably know for sure soon.

If anyone else is doing gap year(s), what kinds of ec's/activities are you doing? I know the main thing I should be working on right now is getting clinical/healthcare experience, but I'm having a hard time finding out what kinds of activities I should look/apply for, that don't require some kind of experience or certification (specifics would be helpful). I've applied for several types of hospital jobs (ex. scribing, technician), but I haven't had any far. For scribing, I only got one interview, which I didn't get. I also don't have the experience/certifications the technician jobs were looking for, and I got rejected from all with no interview.

Also, is volunteering enough, or will a paid position look better to adcoms? My uncle who's an MD said just volunteering as a postgrad would make my app look "wimpy", but I don't know if this is true

Sorry if my questions seem dumb, I'm just really lost right now

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Also, is volunteering enough, or will a paid position look better to adcoms? My uncle who's an MD said just volunteering as a postgrad would make my app look "wimpy", but I don't know if this is true

It doesn't matter. Volunteering is good and doesn't look wimpy. It's unfortunate but a lot of practicing MDs are so far removed from the process of applying that they have no idea what is actually necessary

 

[Doc_Ock]

It was a school in the western half of the country. I would rather not give the exact name publicly to protect my anonymity. PM me and I will tell you if you'd like.

I think that's more your school than DO's in general. You don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm doing an SMP at WesternU taught by the same DO faculty and there's no way I would want to go here with their lack of teaching ability and curriculum. The school I got accepted to is VASTLY different in just about every respect. Sorry you had a bad experience but there are crappy MD schools as well.

 

[salty baby]

I think that's more your school than DO's in general. You don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm doing an SMP at WesternU taught by the same DO faculty and there's no way I would want to go here with their lack of teaching ability and curriculum. The school I got accepted to is VASTLY different in just about every respect. Sorry you had a bad experience but there are crappy MD schools as well.

Is western that bad? That's one of my top choices atm

 

[Doc_Ock]

Is western that bad? That's one of my top choices atm

They're changing up their curriculum pretty heavily for the better starting next year, but bottom line is we have all the same professors they do and I have been thoroughly unimpressed with their teaching ability.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Hmm, so if a person wants to go to Western, then one must be a professional self-studier. Is that sound?

Basically. Your professors are mostly worthless. Their test questions can be really weird too. If I’m paying this much money I expect quality educators.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Hmm, so if a person wants to go to Western, then one must be a professional self-studier. Is that sound?

To be fair you must be a good self studier for med school in general.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Can you share how you are dealing with the tests of these "worthless" instructors?

YouTube has become my teacher. Everyone’s in this program for linkage but I got an ecceptance to another school so I’m pretty much cruising at this point,I don’t have to obsess about my grades.

 

[Doc_Ock]

To be fair you must be a good self studier for med school in general.

If you take two people who are both good self studiers but give one really crappy teaches and the other great ones, who do you think will wind up learning more?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

If you take two people who are both good self studiers but give one really crappy teaches and the other great ones, who do you think will wind up learning more?

If they are both really good self-studiers then they will learn the same amount. Literally teachers don't matter in med school, there are tons of resources to learn the material. I'm not defending Western so much as pointing out that I wouldn't choose a school based on this because teachers don't matter and the truth is that every school will have great teachers and terrible ones.

 

[Doc_Ock]

If they are both really good self-studiers then they will learn the same amount. Literally teachers don't matter in med school, there are tons of resources to learn the material. I'm not defending Western so much as pointing out that I wouldn't choose a school based on this because teachers don't matter and the truth is that every school will have great teachers and terrible ones.

Having attended a variety of schools and being familiar with the literature on the subject that is simply incorrect.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Having attended a variety of schools and being familiar with the literature on the subject that is simply incorrect.

Lol, I'm sorry but until you are in medical school I will disregard your opinion of how to study for medical school and what is important. After your in and doing it for a few months, then we can discuss the merits of good professors.

 

[Doc_Ock]

How would the revision of Western's curriculum bring any benefit if the professors are going to stay the same?

I could talk at length about this. For starters, they used to either teach anatomy during the summer for a whopping total of six weeks or for the first 10 weeks of your first year. Next year they’ll start teaching it the whole year. Current classroom hours are in the mid 30’s, next year is supposed to be in the mid 20’s.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Lol, I'm sorry but until you are in medical school I will disregard your opinion of how to study for medical school and what is important. After your in and doing it for a few months, then we can discuss the merits of good professors.

Argument from authority - Wikiquote

K

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Argument from authority - Wikiquote

K

Yeah no. If you haven't done medical school then you don't know how to study for med school, there is no logical fallacy here. You will realize how worthless professors are when you are doing it every day.

I could talk at length about this. For starters, they used to either teach anatomy during the summer for a whopping total of six weeks or for the first 10 weeks of your first year. Next year they’ll start teaching it the whole year. Current classroom hours are in the mid 30’s, next year is supposed to be in the mid 20’s.

The classroom hour reduction is a good change, changing anatomy to a whole year sucks. Just get it out of the way in 8 weeks and be done with it.

 

[Goro]

How about paid work in Memory Care with Alzheimer's and dementia patients? Or it is only best when it is volunteering?

I was asked to move to the Assisted Living side, but I really like the Memory Care.

Thanks

Whether it's paid of volunteer, working with the most vulnerable populations,e specially those that remind one of our mortality, is always good in my book.

 

[WhereMyLiberalsAt]

Does volunteering by providing free acupuncture treatments to patients at a HIV/AIDS clinic count?

Tasteless...

 

[Goro]

Does volunteering by providing free acupuncture treatments to patients at a HIV/AIDS clinic count?

I'm not a fan of pseudoscience, but I'd take it.

 

[Doc_Ock]

How does it not show good taste?

Acupuncture is not evidence based medicine.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Oh I see. But I heard from some DOs that schools do cover a class or two on acupuncture on its effectiveness on chronic pain.

I have nevertheless heard this, and if they do they shouldn’t. I could go on a tangent about how “integrative” medicine is being weaseled into medical education even at respectable institutions. If anyone in the process of looking at your app gives a damn about EBM they’ll chuck your app right out.

 

[deleted846074]

Yes, you need DO schools on the list. While there are MD schools that reward reinvention, you can't take chances. Do you really want to waste a year reapplying and lose some $200K in future salary?

1.5 years of upward trend will probably not be enough o prove reinvention, and the 512 MCAT might work for your state MD schools, but I'm not sanguine for the others that reward reinvention.

have basically no extracurriculars/research,
This is lethal...you need to get these experience in. Research is not important for DO schools.

What exactly qualifies as reinvention if not 1.5 years of upward trend?

 

[Goro]

What exactly qualifies as reinvention if not 1.5 years of upward trend?

Two full years in UG or a solid year plus in post vac, or SMP

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

I will disagree with almost everyone above. The only issue will be that you don't have LOR from DO and teachers. You must have LORs. I would apply to 3-4 schools where you want to go. Your MCAT is stellar and that will oversee lot of stuff. Apply asap and in the meantime get LORs from DO, teachers and your employer if you are working currently. Don't wait for a year. Sometime you have to gamble. Keep in mind you will be reapplicant for those schools if you you don't get in. Keep doing volunteer and shadow DR.

I'd do this if you think your fast-talking skills are good

Go MD or not at all. You have a reasonable chance of getting into allopathic programs with your credentials. Make sure to apply broadly. You also do not need any clinical experience to get into a osteopathic program. I got into several programs with 0 hours of community service and no research or hospital exposure whatsoever. You also learn absolutely nothing from typical pre-med extracurricular activities anyway.

Just want to echo how horrible this is

Two full years in UG or a solid year plus in post vac, or SMP

Can I just point out how much I appreciate Goro's precise answers.

 

[Goro]

I'd do this if you think your fast-talking skills are good


Just want to echo how horrible this is

Indeed. SDNers are strongly advised not to take the advice of people who make unwise decisions, like transferring to a Carib school from a DO school just because their parents told them to, and because they think that having being an IMG will magically open doors closed to DOs.