HOPD Contract help

[Ronin1]

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I think it is more the hospital has no bias against the individuals in these categories but the private spine hospital/neurosurgery group does.

For sure at least at my hospital the administration has no clue regarding qualifications or even competency. In addition they think all docs are fungible so you have to be somewhat cautious with your demands or they will just move to the next candidate.

 

[CleanUp]

I think it is more the hospital has no bias against the individuals in these categories but the private spine hospital/neurosurgery group does.

Who knows maybe you’re right. Just sharing my n=3 experience

 

[Magnus Acus]

I’ve been involved with three large healthcare systems. Two out of the All three have gone through a period of cutting costs. The themes I see when it comes to the pain departments are as follows
1. Hire IMGs.
2. Hire DOs
3. Hire PMR.
4. Hire new grads.
5. Hire someone desperate to move to the area

In essence the system always has the upper hand in these negotiations then.

I’m not in an HOPD set up

I’m having trouble understanding how being MD vs DO would have any impact cutting costs.

 

[bedrock]

I’m having trouble understanding how being MD vs DO would have any impact cutting costs.

Agree. And same with PMR.

If a PMR doc gets a top ten ACGME Pain fellowship, he/she is not going to be cheaper than an anesthesia/pain doc who completed a fellowship in the bottom 30% of the country.

I can understand how hospital might use IMG, fresh grads, and people desperate to move to an area for family or otherwise, to save money on the salaries they pay.

However, this agreement doesn’t hold with DOs or PMR docs. For example, there is a SDN member (not me) who is a PMR doc who is a DO and did his PMR residency and fellowship at the Mayo Clinic.

He’s not going to get less of a salary package than an anesthesia pain doc who did his anesthesia and pain fellowship at average public state institutions.

 

[painfuldoc]

Agree. And same with PMR.

If a PMR doc gets a top ten ACGME Pain fellowship, he/she is not going to be cheaper than an anesthesia/pain doc who completed a fellowship in the bottom 30% of the country.

I can understand how hospital might use IMG, fresh grads, and people desperate to move to an area for family or otherwise, to save money on the salaries they pay.

However, this agreement doesn’t hold with DOs or PMR docs. For example, there is a SDN member (not me) who is a PMR doc who is a DO and did his PMR residency and fellowship at the Mayo Clinic.

He’s not going to get less of a salary package than an anesthesia pain doc who did his anesthesia and pain fellowship at average public state institutions.

Does it ultimately matter where you did your fellowship? Let’s say you go to a bottom 30% fellowship vs top 10 fellowship but you have the same amount of advanced/BB procedure numbers. Will employers automatically give you a lower salary package for going to lower tiered fellowship?

From my understanding it doesn’t matter where you did your fellowship, as long as you’re productive.

 

[Baron S]

Us PM&R docs should get an asterisk next to our Pain Management titles.

 

[Taus]

Does it ultimately matter where you did your fellowship? Let’s say you go to a bottom 30% fellowship vs top 10 fellowship but you have the same amount of advanced/BB procedure numbers. Will employers automatically give you a lower salary package for going to lower tiered fellowship?

From my understanding it doesn’t matter where you did your fellowship, as long as you’re productive.

Meh. I’d argue it could the opposite…. Prob more of the ivory tower grads in academics. Us DO/pmr/state school schlubs get stuck slumming it in community private practice….

 

[BobBarker]

Community hospitals don’t care about where you trained. Agreed, that is an academics only issue. They only care that you are reasonably nice and have at minimum average work ethic. If you have above average work ethic and people skills they are happy to do what it takes to retain you within reason. That is a 2nd contract matter though.

 

[CleanUp]

Agree. And same with PMR.

If a PMR doc gets a top ten ACGME Pain fellowship, he/she is not going to be cheaper than an anesthesia/pain doc who completed a fellowship in the bottom 30% of the country.

I can understand how hospital might use IMG, fresh grads, and people desperate to move to an area for family or otherwise, to save money on the salaries they pay.

However, this agreement doesn’t hold with DOs or PMR docs. For example, there is a SDN member (not me) who is a PMR doc who is a DO and did his PMR residency and fellowship at the Mayo Clinic.

He’s not going to get less of a salary package than an anesthesia pain doc who did his anesthesia and pain fellowship at average public state institutions.

The anesthesia gal could easily have plentiful offers for 500-600k doing anesthesia. Hot market. So she has leverage.

PMR can’t walk away and get that kind of salary.

 

[clubdeac]

Our anesthesia pain guys get paid significantly less than the PMR pain guys. No idea why and it causes tension bw physicians. It’s bs

 

[lobelsteve]

Our anesthesia pain guys get paid significantly less than the PMR pain guys. No idea why and it causes tension bw physicians. It’s bs

As long as the men make more than the women it’s still all good.

 

[jsaul]

Our anesthesia pain guys get paid significantly less than the PMR pain guys. No idea why and it causes tension bw physicians. It’s bs

How much less? Because of emgs?

 

[clubdeac]

How much less? Because of emgs?

Don’t know why but it’s something like $10/wRVU

 

[cowboydoc]

How much less? Because of emgs?

That’s like paying an FP more than an internist because they also do well-child checks. Does not compute.

 

[cowboydoc]

Don’t know why but it’s something like $10/wRVU

That’s wild, but in line with AMGA data showing “non-anesthesia pain” consistently makes more than anesthesia pain.

 

[clubdeac]

That’s wild, but in line with AMGA data showing “non-anesthesia pain” consistently makes more than anesthesia pain.

Good to know when they give me crap about their less than ideal contracts

 

[drusso]

"They will never love you back."

 

[DOctorJay]

Good to know when they give me crap about their less than ideal contracts

management's dream - infighting amongst the ranks when the fight should be against them