Hopkins Path

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Is anyone familiar with Johns Hopkins pathology. Freida says they have like 15 PGY-1s and only 5 PGY-2s. It strikes me as odd. Any ideas what's going on.😳

 

[pathstudent]

Not sure why that would be, but Hopkins is one of the top 5, alpha plus tier programs along with BWH, Univ of Wash (seattle), UCSF and Stanford, so you can't go wrong.

 

[listeriaismfb]

This place is top tier, but has a reputation for being a toxic grind akin to MGH. I interviewed there. I got the letter and phone call too, but the gramatical error on my letter and a weird sick feeling in my solar plexus told me I was being misled. I went on to survey the friends that I met on the interview trail, and we ALL got the letter and phone call! I was on to the ruse, but I played anyway. I ranked them 1, and proceeded to tell all my friends that I was CERTAINLY going to my #2, and I was right. I laughed my butt off on match day.

I loved my program. I was in the right place at the right time for some amazing stuff; in the course of my residency I was first author on a manuscript published in a very high impact journal. All things for a reason.

I would say go there, experience the place, rank them if you like, but be forewarned that they play the game very well.

 

[djmd]

Is anyone familiar with Johns Hopkins pathology. Freida says they have like 15 PGY-1s and only 5 PGY-2s. It strikes me as odd. Any ideas what's going on.😳

Their website states they usually have 6-8 slots per year...
maybe they are still shifting after the 4 to 5 year change..??

 

[gbwillner]

Not sure why that would be, but Hopkins is one of the top 5, alpha plus tier programs along with BWH, Univ of Wash (seattle), UCSF and Stanford, so you can't go wrong.

Should be * all over that statement.

There is no "top 5"... it's all subjective.

Your list seems west-coast centric.... One of your programs I didn't even apply to because it did not have a good CP reputation. One of the other programs I thought was SUPER OVERRATED and in no way merits being on that list... but I won't say which one.

Top 5 = my program + 4 others that I hear are pretty good.

 

[listeriaismfb]

Should be * all over that statement.

There is no "top 5"... it's all subjective.

Your list seems west-coast centric.... One of your programs I didn't even apply to because it did not have a good CP reputation. One of the other programs I thought was SUPER OVERRATED and in no way merits being on that list... but I won't say which one.

Top 5 = my program + 4 others that I hear are pretty good.

Agree. A lot of what makes a program a good match for a particular candidate has to do with things beyond academic reputation.

 

[LADoc00]

Solid program. For most people tho it was living in Baltimore, which was a crime ridden no man's land for the better part of 2+ decades. No program is worth getting shot at esp. when you can safely live in parts of Boston near BWH/HMS zone, Mountain View near SMS and Mission Bay area near UCSF.

JHU was akin to Yale/New Haven in this respect.

That said Baltimore is incredibly cleaned up and the Inner Harbor area is quite nice now. Plus tons of stuff to do in DC area.

For med students going into path, lifestyle is so important it is no wonder places like Seattle, SF, westside of LA etc are so popular.

 

[yaah]

Not sure why that would be, but Hopkins is one of the top 5, alpha plus tier programs along with BWH, Univ of Wash (seattle), UCSF and Stanford, so you can't go wrong.

It never ceases to amaze me how people come up with random lists of "Top 5" (or top whatever) programs. For example, I wouldn't even put one of these programs in my top 15, and another one probably not even in my top 10. But also it depends on what you're ranking them in regards to. It always amazes me how some programs which are so good in some areas can be so mediocre in others.

But yes, you would come out of hopkins a well-trained pathologist. Particularly in AP. I can't remember much about their CP. I too had issues with the program coordinator, I remember it being exceedingly annoying to schedule my interview - I think the first time I did it no one answered the phone, and then the second time I called and scheduled and they never sent me a confirmation, so I had to call back.

I ranked it pretty high, somewhere between 3-5 on my rank list.

 

[caffeinegirl]

This place is top tier, but has a reputation for being a toxic grind akin to MGH.

Come on...was that necessary? MGH is anything but a toxic grind. Rigorous, sure. Not 9-5, sure. But toxic? Anything but! The camaraderie we have here is top-notch, and you reap the rewards for your hard work.

 

[gbwillner]

Come on...was that necessary? MGH is anything but a toxic grind. Rigorous, sure. Not 9-5, sure. But toxic? Anything but! The camaraderie we have here is top-notch, and you reap the rewards for your hard work.

Haven't you noticed? A lot of path residents have an aversion to hard work and very long hours. Although I don't know what makes the Camaraderie at MHG "Top notch". From my interview I found it to be rather average at best.

 

[gbwillner]

Agree. A lot of what makes a program a good match for a particular candidate has to do with things beyond academic reputation.

When I started applying I asked two senior path faculty members (coincidentally both trained at MGH) what the top 5 Path residencies were. One was CP only. They gave me very different lists. Neither list had Hopkins or Stanford. Only the CP list had UW. Not coincidentally (since they both trained there), both had MGH on their lists.

 

[LADoc00]

When I started applying I asked two senior path faculty members (coincidentally both trained at MGH) what the top 5 Path residencies were. One was CP only. They gave me very different lists. Neither list had Hopkins or Stanford. Only the CP list had UW. Not coincidentally (since they both trained there), both had MGH on their lists.

Im not exaggerating when I say for the better part of 10 years MGH had a fairly battered reputation for path training.

 

[gbwillner]

Im not exaggerating when I say for the better part of 10 years MGH had a fairly battered reputation for path training.

Obviously it depends on who you talk to. Many of the "top" programs have had turnover at the chairman/director position in the last few years. No one survives that totally unscathed, but it may take some time for everyone to acknowledge you again.

IMHO the best thing to do is ask (multiple) people who you respect and are in the specialties you are interested in what the top places are (if reputation is important to you). Then go see them for yourself. And I don't mean go for an afternoon. I spent almost a week at my three top programs, and a month at another place I thought was going to be my top choice (now really glad I went and decided against it). I grossed for a day at 5 interviews, just to hang out with the residents and see how they really felt about the place. People don't give you honest opinions/talk smack about their program over a nice meal with attendings present- they do it after their 3rd colon of the day.

I found that MGH had solid training. Their volume is huge... probably too huge. You are going to see everything, and walk out the door a well-trained pathologists with good offers out the door. But you could say that about every respectable program. They are clearly trying to re-image themselves as a more academic program, which was very appealing to me. However there are other programs that already have the academic focus.

 

[caffeinegirl]

Haven't you noticed? A lot of path residents have an aversion to hard work and very long hours. Although I don't know what makes the Camaraderie at MHG "Top notch". From my interview I found it to be rather average at best.

By top notch I mean that we have a "work hard play hard" mentality, as in we know it's tough, but we're all in this together, and we might as well make the most of it together. I don't think this does get across during the interview process, although I know that med students who rotate through do get more exposure to the everyday life of an MGH resident. And the hard work does pay off!!

And yes, in the past, prior to the 80 hour work week, MGH was an extremely rigorous program (and I mean extreeeme), but that is not the case now. Unfortunately, the rumors/reputation out there are remnants of those days. Definitely not the case now.

As for the new leadership and academic bent of the department, it's here to stay. And I think it's for the best in the long run...and this definitely has affected resident training, in that we are becoming exposed to more current molecular techniques while still remaining entrenched in our diagnostic roots. It's a work in progress, but a step in the right direction.

Sorry to hijack the JHU thread!!!!!

 

[listeriaismfb]

Come on...was that necessary? MGH is anything but a toxic grind. Rigorous, sure. Not 9-5, sure. But toxic? Anything but! The camaraderie we have here is top-notch, and you reap the rewards for your hard work.

Hmm, you're just a wee bit defensive. I said that these places *have a reputation* for being a toxic grind. I am merely reflecting what has been reported to me regarding these places.

Please pardon me but "camaraderie" and being able to "reap the rewards of hard work" are not exclusives to hardcore academic machines.

The say when you throw a rock into a pack of dogs the one that yelps the loudest is the one you hit.

 

[caffeinegirl]

Hmm, you're just a wee bit defensive. I said that these places *have a reputation* for being a toxic grind. I am merely reflecting what has been reported to me regarding these places.

Please pardon me but "camaraderie" and being able to "reap the rewards of hard work" are not exclusives to hardcore academic machines.

The say when you throw a rock into a pack of dogs the one that yelps the loudest is the one you hit.

Hilarious! I just wanted to stick up for my program, given the fact that I really have had a great time here, benefited with great training, and wanted to share that with others who may have heard otherwise (based on rumors from earlier years pre 80hr work week). And I agree, camaraderie and benefiting from all of this is not unique to MGH (didn't mean to sound exclusive).

As for the pack o' dogs reference...did I bite? 😀

 

[listeriaismfb]

Hilarious! I just wanted to stick up for my program, given the fact that I really have had a great time here, benefited with great training, and wanted to share that with others who may have heard otherwise (based on rumors from earlier years pre 80hr work week). And I agree, camaraderie and benefiting from all of this is not unique to MGH (didn't mean to sound exclusive).

As for the pack o' dogs reference...did I bite? 😀

No bites, just teeth...I'm glad you see the humor here 🙂 It sounds like MGH is/was a good match for you, and if you're happy that's all that matters. In a global sense (getting back to the original topic - Hopkins), so-called alpha tier programs are generally high intensity places that would not be right for everybody. We can all agree on that much. There are candidates out there who either could not or would not respond well in that environment; MSIVs should be self-aware enough to find their best fit.

 

[gbwillner]

(getting back to the original topic - Hopkins), so-called alpha tier programs are generally high intensity places that would not be right for everybody. We can all agree on that much.

That sounds like a super-hero group- Alpha tier... or maybe Alpha squad.... Which school is Superman? More importantly, which school is Aquaman? You know, the school with no useful powers that gets kidnapped in the first 5 minutes of the episode, and then all the other schools have to go rescue it?

 

[pathstudent]

That sounds like a super-hero group- Alpha tier... or maybe Alpha squad.... Which school is Superman? More importantly, which school is Aquaman? You know, the school with no useful powers that gets kidnapped in the first 5 minutes of the episode, and then all the other schools have to go rescue it?

Not just alpha tier but alpha plus tier...sort of like Mustapha Mond.

 

[LADoc00]

Obviously it depends on who you talk to. Many of the "top" programs have had turnover at the chairman/director position in the last few years. No one survives that totally unscathed, but it may take some time for everyone to acknowledge you again.

IMHO the best thing to do is ask (multiple) people who you respect and are in the specialties you are interested in what the top places are (if reputation is important to you). Then go see them for yourself.

hmm, been there and done that...but that is besides the point. The point was at time X, and I wont further elucidate, the mode in which MGH ran their training program precluded most of their high end speciality services from having any residents see those cases..and often those are the best, most interesting ones.

Now, this may have changed. MGH maybe back on the up and up. But it was not so long ago if you were going to Boston for training you went to Francis Street not Fruit Street.

 

[narcotics999]

how come it have 15 PGY-1? 10 from out-of match? PGY-2 on freida it has 5 but 10 were matched in 2007. The numbers do not make sense.

 

[ataktos]

Although I don't know what makes the Camaraderie at MHG "Top notch". From my interview I found it to be rather average at best.

Quoting you from earlier this spring prior to match day, gbwillner:
FLAWLESS
-----------
-MGH
-WashU
-BWH


It would seem you didn't used to regard MGH as 'rather average at best' in any regard! Just found the discrepancy interesting.....

 

[gbwillner]

Quoting you from earlier this spring prior to match day, gbwillner:
FLAWLESS
-----------
-MGH
-WashU
-BWH


It would seem you didn't used to regard MGH as 'rather average at best' in any regard! Just found the discrepancy interesting.....

Hmm... maybe if you read everything else I posted here you'd see that I thought that the training at MGH was stellar. Nothing in that regard has changed, in fact earlier in this thread mentioned that I thought the training was solid and why it appealed to me. In the list I made before match day I was ranking programs on their quality (both in AP and CP based on my criteria), not how cool the residents were or how nice the city was. As a matter of fact my one criticism of MGH is that I found most residents (obviously not all) to be pretty nerdy and introverted. I was often told that the reason they still pull 14 hr days on average was because they were all so gosh-darn interested in Path that none wanted to leave for the day, despite the pleading of the faculty.

Does that clear it up for you? If you still see a discrepancy there let me know

 

[ataktos]

As a matter of fact my one criticism of MGH is that I found most residents (obviously not all) to be pretty nerdy and introverted.

I think it's fantastic that we interviewed at very similar places and found each other's programs to be exceptionally 'nerdy and introverted'.....You mention that as a turnoff for you with MGH and I would say the same for my experience at WashU! I think this serves to underline just how subjective the whole process can be. I'm glad for a forum where we can exchange experiences, thoughts, etc in a (hopefully) minimally inflammatory manner! I am glad you're happy where you ended up and I'm thankful to be happy where I ended up. Perhaps we'll re-meet one day.....

 

[gbwillner]

I think it's fantastic that we interviewed at very similar places and found each other's programs to be exceptionally 'nerdy and introverted'.....You mention that as a turnoff for you with MGH and I would say the same for my experience at WashU! I think this serves to underline just how subjective the whole process can be. I'm glad for a forum where we can exchange experiences, thoughts, etc in a (hopefully) minimally inflammatory manner! I am glad you're happy where you ended up and I'm thankful to be happy where I ended up. Perhaps we'll re-meet one day.....

I'm sure we'll see each other more than once... USCAP and all those meeting occur every year. As long as you don't call me a flip-flopper or hypocrite I'll refrain from calling you a nerd or dork. Deal?

 

[yaah]

Ah gee whiz you're both nerds. 😛

 

[ataktos]

Ah gee whiz you're both nerds. 😛

I would never ever deny being a nerd!
The nerdiness of pathology departments I visited varied significantly both qualitatively & quantitatively.....overall, I really really like my fellow nerds here!

I have, like, eighty gazillion more specimens to gross before I even start thinking about previewing....at this rate I'll be lucky to leave the hospital before 3am.....





Just kidding---I'm already home.
Also: apologies for contributing to the hijacking of this thread.

 

[baoflex]

Is anyone familiar with Johns Hopkins pathology. Freida says they have like 15 PGY-1s and only 5 PGY-2s. It strikes me as odd. Any ideas what's going on.😳

It is a little odd, but it is a combination of several different factors. First, several residents shifted to AP only from AP/CP which altered the class balance. Also, a resident took a research year which opens up an available resident position. Finally, at least one resident left (on good terms) for very reasonable personal reasons. I think that the normal and desired number of positions per year is 7-8.