Hopkins vs. Stanford

[ceyx]

Regarding the SC component of the curriculum - I happen to love it and it was a part of what brought me to Stanford.

Hey Dumbarton, if you had to ballpark it, what % of SMS types are--like you--excited about the SC requirement and what % feels like it's just another hoop to jump through?

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[ghip]

I actually disagree with the above posts which state that Hopkins provides superior clinical training. I'm perhaps somewhat biased, as well as a bit better informed, than the above posters as I am a current Stanford student who entered clinical clerkships this year. I've gone through many of my core rotations (med, surg - not yet peds) and I can state that the clinical training is excellent.

Stanford Hospital, like Johns Hopkins Hospital, is a tertiary care center which means that it gets many transfers and referrals from area hospitals for complicated patients. It also serves as the primary care hospital for disadvantaged patients from around area including East Palo Alto, Redwood City, and much of the East Bay. In addition to Stanford Hospital, students rotate through the Palo Alto VA Med Center (PAVAMC), Kaiser Santa Clara, and the Santa Clara Valley Medical Center (SCVMC). All core rotations require students to be at multiple sites which provides a very diverse clinical experience. You'll see standard HMO-type patients at Kaiser SC and get a sense of how an HMO functions. The PAVAMC, although everyone says it about their own VA, is possibly the country's top VA. It's a great hospital and is an impressive research center in its own right. And finally, perhaps the best part of the training process, is SCVMC (also called The Valley). The Valley is a county hospital that serves disadvantaged and uninsured patients in San Jose and the South Bay. It's a large county hospital (for comparison, it's twice the size of San Francisco General and slightly larger than Cook County Hospital) - it's a great place and, like county hospitals everywhere, is very hectic and provides students with lots of opportunities. The Bay Area is possibly the most ethnically diverse area in the country and students have a lot of exposure to a variety of immigrant communities with varying levels of prior healthcare. I haven't done Peds yet so I can't talk as much about Packard Hospital and the peds training.

I think there is an East Coast bias against some of the west coast programs and there are long-standing attitudes that don't have a lot of basis in fact. It's hard as a pre-med to sort through this stuff because these things get passed around like the gospel truth and they ultimately don't mean much. On my clinical rotations, I've met current residents who went to medical school at Stanford and Johns Hopkins and I can't tell the difference between them in their abilities, etc. - I just know they are both farther along them I am and are both very good!!

In any case, you'll have lots of opportunities at both places and I'm sure you'll be able to accomplish whatever you want coming from either place. Good luck!

I used to post on these boards all the time as a pre-med and now I've just come back (under a new guise!) as I get ready to start the residency application process. Thought I'd check out the pre-med boards and saw people going through the same thought process I had a few years back (mine was HMS vs. Stanford and I'm glad I made the decision I did). Again, good luck!

1) Stanford being a tertiary care center doesn't make it as good as hopinks.
2) This isn't an east coast bias thing. One of the problems with Stanford is it has to share San Fran area patients with a better medical school.
3) Sorry, noone has clinical training like hopinks. OK, maybe wayne state could make a case for itself, but certainly not stanford.

 

[Doctorphilic]

I am only a premed so i really dont have any substantial answer to the original question (Hopkins vs Stanford). However, as a stanford undergrad i am disappointed to find out that some people attack schools such as Stanford on a personal level. Choosing a medical school is not big of deal epecially if u are shooting for MD. Still it is important to consider schools from different vantage points and that is easy to do. You dont need to be belligerant and attack schools. If anything it says that you can not rationalize arguements. I bet you those who attack stanford are probably those who got rejected and i understand that. Still it will help others we try to be more objective--no need to be emotional about this--

 

[DumbartonBridge]

My general sense is that most of my classmates are happy with their SC. I don't have exact numbers but my sense is that the newer classes are happier with the system than the older classes. The class above me was the first class with the system and I've seen a lot of variance in their attitude toward the system whereas most first-years I've met (with is like 10 or so - don't know as many) seem to be very happy with what they are doing. I imagine this difference is because the SC system wasn't very well advertised, or even completely designed yet (but I don't know for sure) when the class above me entered but now it's a standard part of the curriculum.

Regarding the above post regarding how UCSF and Stanford's proximity affect each other - my general sense is that there are more than enough patients to go around. The Bay Area is one of the larger metropolitan areas in the country and it only has two academic medical centers. Compare this with Boston which has three centers (Harvard, Tufts, BU - and quite a bit more if break Harvard down into the MGH, BIDMC, and BWH) with a smaller total encashment. The Baltimore/DC area has multiple centers (JHU, Maryland, GW, G'town), Chicago has multiple centers, etc. If anything, I think the density of academic centers on the West Coast is substantially below that of the "older" parts of the country (for example, north of the Bay Area and Sacramento there are only OHSU and UW until you hit Canada and nothing east of there until Minnesota). Stanford Hospital is routinely full and, from what my friends at UCSF have said, there is no shortage of patients in SF as well.

The point of my prior posting on my clinical experiences was to detail how Stanford students rotate through a variety of different clinical environments. For example, I found it to be an interesting clinical experience when a patient of mine at Kaiser needed a brain mri but it had to be arranged on an outpatient basis because Kaiser didn't want to keep the patient in house while awaiting availability on the scanner. I had the opposite experience at Stanford where you can get any imaging test done you want that day with a touch of a button. As a student it was interesting to contrast the two clinical environments - I'm sure medical students at a variety of different medical schools have had similar experiences.

I'm a little curious as to how some of the posters on this forum feel they are able to critique the clinical training at different institutions. I can only comment on my own experiences and, from what I said earlier, I have been happy with what I have experienced. I've seen a variety of different hospitals, interacted with a very diverse group of patients, and had the chance to work with great faculty and residents. In general, I think medical training across the country has far more similarities than it has differences.

Good luck with all of your decision processes and hopefully you'll be able to find the right school for your interests.

 

[ghip]

Regarding the above post regarding how UCSF and Stanford's proximity affect each other - my general sense is that there are more than enough patients to go around. The Bay Area is one of the larger metropolitan areas in the country and it only has two academic medical centers. Compare this with Boston which has three centers (Harvard, Tufts, BU - and quite a bit more if break Harvard down into the MGH, BIDMC, and BWH) with a smaller total encashment. The Baltimore/DC area has multiple centers (JHU, Maryland, GW, G'town), Chicago has multiple centers, etc. If anything, I think the density of academic centers on the West Coast is substantially below that of the "older" parts of the country (for example, north of the Bay Area and Sacramento there are only OHSU and UW until you hit Canada and nothing east of there until Minnesota). Stanford Hospital is routinely full and, from what my friends at UCSF have said, there is no shortage of patients in SF as well.

The issue isn't density of medical centers, it's that you're not the best in the area. You mention Boston, with three--Harvard clearly trumps. Baltimore/DC--Hopinks. Bay area--UCSF. I don't know anything about Chicago, sorry. Personally, if you are interested in comparing schools, I think it's important to note that, 1, UCSF is right in the city, and so has a greater local population density, and 2, a greater proportion of exciting cases are going to end up being referred to UCSF. I'm not saying Stanford students have to deal with empty hospitals, just that UCSF is clearly in a better position to get both a broader and more interesting array of cases. JHU, on the other hand, is going to get the best cases in the DC area.

 

[Doctor&Geek]

You guys sound like the primary importance in medical education is how many zebras you get the see.

Save it for residency - learn the basics first.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

You guys sound like the primary importance in medical education is how many zebras you get the see.

Save it for residency - learn the basics first.

 

[Gabujabu]

Hi,

I am debating a somewhat similar situation Stanford vs. WashU vs. Hopkins/Duke Alternate List (which, of course, may not lead anywhere). Thank you for all the replies.

 

[pyrois]

I am deciding between Hopkins and Stanford. I know that they are both good schools. But, I was wondering what everybody else thought were the strengths and weaknesses of the programs in comparison.

I need your spot at Stanford. Go to Hopkins for christ's sake. It's better ranked, and matches more people into good hospitals like Hopkins. GOOOOO. And withdraw quickly/early.

Thank you.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

I need your spot at Stanford. Go to Hopkins for christ's sake. It's better ranked, and matches more people into good hospitals like Hopkins. GOOOOO. And withdraw quickly/early.

Thank you.

Don't listen to this. Go to Cali. Better weather, better girls, better nightlife.

Check out the matchlists... negligible difference.. both are awesome.

Go to Stanford (and let me get in off the waitlist at Hopkins )

 

[pyrois]

Don't listen to this. Go to Cali. Better weather, better girls, better nightlife.

Check out the matchlists... negligible difference.. both are awesome.

Go to Stanford (and let me get in off the waitlist at Hopkins )

GWAAAAH go to Hopkiiiins! (I think that asking questions like this post-acceptances may result in biased responses)

 

[Stolenspatulas]

GWAAAAH go to Hopkiiiins! (I think that asking questions like this post-acceptances may result in biased responses)

Haha... well honestly, My two top choices were Stanford and UCSF... and both didn't even give me an interview invite (though I made the 2ndary cut for UCSF). Gah I wish I was from California. (so many top schools.... 3 of them that are public and cheap!)

 

[Haybrant]

Stanford students still go up to the UCSF library to study, but probably b/c they are en route to enjoying themselves in the city later that night.

yes, all of 3 students in my MSII class have studied at the ucsf library

 

[spanamit]

The issue isn't density of medical centers, it's that you're not the best in the area. You mention Boston, with three--Harvard clearly trumps. Baltimore/DC--Hopinks. Bay area--UCSF. I don't know anything about Chicago, sorry. Personally, if you are interested in comparing schools, I think it's important to note that, 1, UCSF is right in the city, and so has a greater local population density, and 2, a greater proportion of exciting cases are going to end up being referred to UCSF. I'm not saying Stanford students have to deal with empty hospitals, just that UCSF is clearly in a better position to get both a broader and more interesting array of cases. JHU, on the other hand, is going to get the best cases in the DC area.

You have no idea of what you are talking about. Stanford Medical center in general see a lot more traffic than Parnassus and Mount Zion (latter two are UCSF). This is because UCSF has to constantly compete with Kaiser.

As far as UCSF getting more "interesting" cases, that is not true either, since Stanford is generally regarded as good as UCSF as a tertiary care center, and both receive about the same level of "interesting" cases.