Hospital Experience with no Residency: Next Steps

Discussion in 'Pharmacy' started by Saiyo, Aug 9, 2017.

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  1. Saiyo

    Saiyo 7+ Year Member

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    It's coming up on 2 years that I'll have been in a rural area, and quite honestly I think I'm reaching a breaking point. Theres only so much I can enjoy my time in an area that has literally nothing else to offer, and it feels like I'm grinding my life away for experience and an increasingly unattractive paycheck. Netflix and Video games? When those are your only options you quickly get sick of both. And while I'm grateful to have gotten my start in hospital, I have to get out of here and have started looking at my options.

    Browsing around I've been hearing two different things:
    1.) People are having trouble getting back into the city, applying to multiple jobs for months without result..
    2.) People getting jobs in the city straight out as a new grad or even from retail..Once in a while someone will even ask if leaving retail for the VA is worth it!

    Looking at the job postings, most of them are PRN, require residency, or 3-5 years of experience. Is it just my area? where are all the good jobs everyone is getting?

    Now, I'm willing to move to any city, Ann Arbor/Detroit, The Twin cities, Denver, Houston, (maybe even Las Vegas or Anchorage!) are just a few of the places I would be happy to go to, but it seems like any city that sounds even slightly desirable is saturated with slim pickings in between.

    Anyone have any insight on the job market or what my next steps should be?
     
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  3. awval999

    awval999 New Member 10+ Year Member

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    Apply for overnight jobs, or 2nd shift.
     
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  4. Abby Atwood

    Abby Atwood

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    How small is city you are currently living in? I don't think I would have been hired in a capital city right after graduation, but I found a job in a 40,000 ish person small town that is near by some tourist hotspots. Would 40,000 people be an improvement, a lateral move, or a down grade?
    I definitely saw jobs at major cities that listed 1 year hospital experience as preferred vs as a requirement. You have a job, so you can take some time finding the next one. :)
     
  5. Saiyo

    Saiyo 7+ Year Member

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    My current city is about that size, but not near any tourist hotspots or major airports.....I think it would be a lateral move unless it had some big draw to it,
    but I think I've had enough of this hermit lifestyle for a while.
     
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  6. confettiflyer

    confettiflyer Did you just say something? 10+ Year Member

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    prn is usually the gateway into PT/FT work if you can stomach the risk


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
     
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  7. Pharmacy Kid

    Pharmacy Kid LCDR 7+ Year Member

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    I feel you, I've been there. Are you just applying to hospital settings right now in big cities? If so, it's gonna be tough, no way around it. Try tapping into your network. Continue to improve you professional career ...are you board certified, have extra training, working on dual degree?

    Also have 6 - 12 months of living expenses saved up. That will be the GTFO ticket. You can quit, recharge for a few months and continue a job search.
     
  8. rxdawg21

    rxdawg21 2+ Year Member

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    I would not recommend quitting without at least part time work if you are set on hospital work in a decent city. Not in this job market
     
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  9. Amicable Angora

    Amicable Angora Lagomorpha 2+ Year Member

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    Maybe we should start a pharmacy online gaming club. Exchange Steam handles and such.
     
  10. Pharmacy Kid

    Pharmacy Kid LCDR 7+ Year Member

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    Yes, a part time job would look much better on a resume while allowing time to figure things out.
     
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  11. radio frequency

    radio frequency 2+ Year Member

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    I sent you an inbox message.
     
  12. Saiyo

    Saiyo 7+ Year Member

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    I've been looking in the cities to see what I would even be qualified for and haven't found much. I have taken a look at some of the extra certifications (cgp/cnsc), but my friends have been telling me they aren't really worth much unless you already work in those settings.

    Gaming lost it's charm when I realized I was playing with kids who were born in the 2000's!
     
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  13. Amicable Angora

    Amicable Angora Lagomorpha 2+ Year Member

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    Crush them with the fury of a man (woman?) who has nothing else to lose.
     
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  14. PAtoPharm

    PAtoPharm

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    These are the kinds of threads that used to scare the crap out of me back when I was in pharmacy school (even after I had basically made the decision to not continue moving forward in pharmacy school). I can't imagine what I'd do in the face of that kind of remote, desolate misery, especially if I was witnessing the job market get so bad that I'd have no choice but to accept the possibility of remaining in BFE forever. OP, are you going to consider applying for retail jobs if you can't get a hospital job in a normal-sized city? Or would you prefer to in hospital, even if it meant continuing to be stuck in BFE?
     
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  15. Saiyo

    Saiyo 7+ Year Member

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    I would never take a retail job. Its just not for me, and I think I would be more miserable there then here...
     
  16. samven582

    samven582 7+ Year Member

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    Have you tried any Federal government jobs?
     
  17. wagrxm2000

    wagrxm2000 2+ Year Member

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    I'm very curious what you do for money right now in order to live this lavishing lifestyle you want to have in these big cities.
     
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  18. PAtoPharm

    PAtoPharm

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    Right now? Obviously I'm not making the money to afford that kind of lifestyle right now, because if I had been, I wouldn't have even considered applying to AA or pharmacy schools or probably any other graduate programs.
     
  19. wagrxm2000

    wagrxm2000 2+ Year Member

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    Your desire for money seems to be controlling your life.
     
  20. PAtoPharm

    PAtoPharm

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    Maybe so, but more than wanting to live in a huge city, I'm actually terrified of having to move to an extremely small one. I currently live in a medium-sized city in the southeast and couldn't imagine having to move to live in one that counts as a small-sized city, regardless of what I do for a living. I'm surprised more pharmacy students don't have the same concerns. I wonder how many of them simply don't know that there's a high likelihood that they'll have to move to a rural area when they graduate, or if they love pharmacy so much that they don't care.
     
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  21. Amicable Angora

    Amicable Angora Lagomorpha 2+ Year Member

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    This is actually a valid concern.
     
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  22. flagyladams

    flagyladams

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    I work in a medium to small city and they pay better than large city hospitals near by that everyone wants to work at. The job is easier where I work 140 bed hospital and not far commute to the city. Also not much more to do in a big city vs a medium city. Bars,movie theaters, bowling , ice skating etc. look for rural areas not far out from urban areas.
     
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  23. owlegrad

    owlegrad Uncontrollable Sarcasm Machine Staff Member SDN Administrator 7+ Year Member

    I feel the same way. Maybe because I am introverted or something, I just don't get it. How small of a city do you have to be to not have a mall, movie theater, bowling alley, etc. etc. Having lived in Orlando vs my small home town, I would take my home town any day. Interestingly I had to move to Orlando in order to escape retail. I guess I am sort of the reverse of PA's fears - I was forced to move to a larger city due to the job market! (Note - I do like Orlando though, but it's not living here automatically makes my life better. I do most of the same stuff I did before but with more traffic and higher real estate prices.)
     
  24. PAtoPharm

    PAtoPharm

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    If you're in Orlando, think about the miserable small towns someone has to drive through/near on their way from Atlanta to Orlando - Tifton, GA, Waycross, GA, Moultrie, GA, etc. In many of these small towns, the only restaurants to eat at are either fast food chain, Cracker Barrel, and some low-grade crap buffet place like Golden Corral. There are also practically no public parks, biking/running trails, gyms, etc. You're basically 3-5 hrs away from the closest small cities that at least offer a bare-minimum full spectrum of amenities. I would honestly rather kill myself
     
  25. wagrxm2000

    wagrxm2000 2+ Year Member

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    You do realize they put ovens and microwaves in homes right? When did food become so important to people?

    Oh and everyone knows your wasting money going to a gym. You should be buying the equipment yourself.

    I'm pretty sure every city still has a gym, park, and biking trails.

    It seems the issue here is you don't see your future. When your married with kids, nothing you find important will matter anymore. Do you really think you're going to be taking a family of four out to an expensive restaurant? Your just blowing money away that you could have made on your own. It's not hard to grill a steak.

    Instead of thinking of the next five or so years of your life, how about thinking of the forty after that?
     
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  26. PAtoPharm

    PAtoPharm

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    Not planning on getting married or having kids. Also, some of us just like to be able to get out of the house, go places, walk around, do stuff. If I spend an entire day just sitting around in the house not doing much, I start feeling depressed and "blah" even if there's technically no reason to feel that way. I bet OP is the same way. Sometimes you just want to get out of the house and be around other stuff for a few hours, even if you're not going to be spending a lot of money doing it
     
  27. wagrxm2000

    wagrxm2000 2+ Year Member

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    So what are you going to do when your forty and everyone you know is married with kids?
     
  28. smercer

    smercer 5+ Year Member

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    What do you enjoy when you are not working or in school?
     
  29. Amicable Angora

    Amicable Angora Lagomorpha 2+ Year Member

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    Why has every thread become the PAtoPharm coaching thread?
     
  30. Abby Atwood

    Abby Atwood

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    I moved from a top 25 (in terms of population size) city to a 40,000 person town. The only major difference in terms of day to day living is that my commute is now 10 minutes, my rent is about $500 per month cheaper, and I'm renting a house vs an apartment.

    If you are really into night life, moving to a smaller city might be a problem. There are places open late for dinner and you can go out at night for a beer, but you can't really go clubbing. Small town living also could be a concern if you love concerts, plays, or any other type of live performance. I have to drive to a larger city for anything like that. There are more local restaurants near by in my location than there were in the city I was originally from. I think these independent restaurants are helped out by lower property costs and local pride. It also helps that the area is somewhat touristy.
     
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  31. lord999

    lord999 Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    Yeah, there's downsides to living in a Gamma- class city or smaller. And no, we're not like our parents or grandparents where that is as palatable as the old days even with the Internet making deliverables easier. Finding decent food (especially if you are Asian) means driving 2-3 hours to a Beta city. Assortative mating is the norm, not the exception anymore (in general, millennial men face a stigma when marrying your secretaries or technicians, and millennial women don't marry beneath them) which limits many options in living in a smaller city.

    If you are already part of a hospital, it might be possible to transfer within system to a larger city. If not, a late residency I don't think carries much weight in the Midwest. You could get the BCPS. None of these are particularly good options, and the job market is tightening with respect to flexibility.

    Right now, VA is not hiring direct from the private sector for general pharmacists unless it is for Class II and Class III hospitals (meaning small cities and the middle of nowhere towns), and usually only into their outpatient division in critical situations. We are under the same hiring freeze as the rest of the Civil Service where each position approval requires DC approval to move on them (so it is easier to transfer residents into per diem and temp positions, but we can't even hire them for permanent staff without DC signoff). I think Health and Human Services has a specific hiring freeze in addition to the general one at the moment where the Executive Office of the President sent instructions to cut personnel in that agency.
     
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  32. PAtoPharm

    PAtoPharm

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    Either point and laugh, or just not care.

    I don't want to be too specific on here, but I basically like to do things you really need to be in at least a medium-sized city for (and like I said before, if I have no choice but to live in BFE, then I want to get paid for taking the lifestyle downgrade).

    This one hasn't... all I said was that I see where the OP is coming from in regards to not being able to stand living in a small town.
     
  33. BidingMyTime

    BidingMyTime Lost Shaker Of Salt 10+ Year Member

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    Many people grew up in small towns, and are quite happy with small-town life. As mentioned, even small towns these days have all the basics (fast food, movie theater, bars, parks, bizarre roadside attractions.) Plus, most rural areas are well within driving distance of a metropolitan city. It's not that hard to make a day trip, or even spend a night or weekend at a hotel (easy to do with the money you will be saving in rent by not living in a big city.) Now, I guess if you are the kind of person who has to be out every night doing something (ie Sparda), then a small town wouldn't be for you. But many people who enjoy big cities are easily able to adapt living in a small town during their work week.
     
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  34. wagrxm2000

    wagrxm2000 2+ Year Member

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    You seem to talk a lot about pharmacy students not doing research about job openings and where they would have to live. However, this point and laugh response tells me you have a lot of growing up to do and haven't really thought about what you want in life other then money.

    My life now consists of spending time with my family or hanging out with my other married friends at either each of our kids different events or at our houses. Sure we get out still without our kids on the weekends but we travel an hour if we have to. It's not that much of a hassle and there is definitely no reason to live in those expensive areas.

    I really want to know what you think you'll be doing at forty if you never have kids or get married?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  35. Jibby321

    Jibby321 Ready or Not...... 2+ Year Member

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    I like living 30 minutes away from orlando. Don't have to deal with all the daily Orlando crap but close enough to drive over whenever I want to.
     
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  36. PAtoPharm

    PAtoPharm

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    I don't know. Maybe I will have saved up a decent-enough amount of money by that time (assuming it doesn't take 5+ years to get into AA school) to be able to switch to working part-time. If you search for part-time job listings for CRNAs/AAs, you see starting salaries in the range of $70-$80k, or more if someone is willing to work exclusively on the weekends/nights (especially weekend nights).

    That is why I mentioned in the other thread that vacation time is important to me. I want to be able to take plenty of time off, travel, and basically do what I want. The AAs who were second-year students when I was in AA school are always posting pictures on FB of all the places they travel to. I guess with 5+ weeks of vacation (plus paid holidays, sick leave), you can take plenty of short vacations by taking off 2 or 3 days at a time leading into the weekend (or just take 5-7 week-long vacations throughout the year). All of the retail pharmacists I know who have graduated recently are only getting 2 weeks of PTO and that's basically it.

    I guess the more relevant question is, what will I not be doing when I'm forty (assuming I'm not dead before then)? If I ever get the career on track, it sounds like I'll be doing basically whatever I want. In fact, me not getting married/having kids is likely to help me play catch-up financially.
     
  37. PAtoPharm

    PAtoPharm

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    I'm assuming you aren't familiar with south/southeast GA. Not only are the towns tiny, miserable, boring, and broke (speed traps and gas stations are often the primary revenue-generating "industries"), but they're also located 3-5 hours away from the closest small cities. Being in one of these towns is kind of like experiencing reverse claustrophobia.

    @smercer , I'm assuming you're from GA; you know what I'm talking about, right? Would you be willing to live in one of these towns?
     
  38. smercer

    smercer 5+ Year Member

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    I would say anything below Macon in Central/Eastern Georgia would not be favorable for me, but that is mostly just because of the gnats and humidity. Those areas are mostly farmland, so I would pretty much say they would be like any rural area in the central US.

    Like others here, I do not prefer the city life. I like to be close enough to get into the city for sports venues, concerts, and attractions (aquarium, zoo, etc), but I do not care to deal with the constant traffic of ATL and I enjoy being in the outdoors. Of course, I live on the south side of the city, so my experience is a bit different than those on the north side, as that tends to be the more wealthy and developed areas near ATL. Personally, I see no benefit to being on the north side other than it has better public school systems and more high end stores/malls. Of course I do not care at all for the nightlife/bar scene, so I do not have any reason to be inside the city on a daily basis.
     
  39. wagrxm2000

    wagrxm2000 2+ Year Member

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    I still don't feel like your answering the question. So it's a Saturday night, your forty now, what are you going to be doing? Best part of marriage life is always having a companion to do things with. Your friends are going to be busy with their family now.

    About vacation, if any of these students are smart, they would have interned throughout school. I believe 10 years gets you 4 weeks with Walgreens and obviously hospitals have pretty good PTO from what I've read. My family takes some pretty good vacations each year and the kids stay at their grandparents when we take our vacations by ourselves each year
     
  40. bulldog1123

    bulldog1123 2+ Year Member

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    As someone from Waycross, GA, you've clearly never been there. Jacksonville is just a little over an hour away, as are many nice beaches on the GA/FL coastline. There are gyms there, we have publics parks and the running trails are amazing since its the country and in its natural state. There are dirt biking and ATV trails as well. Haven't killed myself and have many fond memories of the place where I spent my teen years at. In my 20s and now in Atlanta, I wouldn't move back at this age to Waycross, but I can see myself raising a family there and it is far from the ****hole you play it out to be.
     
  41. MackandBlues

    MackandBlues 5+ Year Member

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    Just start applying for jobs even if they say 3-5 years experience - what do you have to lose?


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
  42. statepharmagent

    statepharmagent

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    I am in your boat! I have about a little more than a year more experience than you and it doesnt seem to help much if any. Been trying for almost a year and getting rejections from even graveyard positions or I see the same positions reposting every other month but they wont ever reply, what gives? I seriously am getting to the point I would probably switch careers if i eventually dont get anything.
     
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  43. PAtoPharm

    PAtoPharm

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    Like I said, it's not for me, and even if part of me didn't mind moving to a rural area, I want more flexibility regarding location choice than facing the practical inevitability that I will have to move such an area. There are simply aspects of this profession that make it a non-starter (or a quit-soon-after-starting) for a lot of people. Good luck with dealing with 200k more pharmacists entering the job market, or whatever the APHA guy/Chapman Dean said he wants to graduate.
     
  44. wucool33

    wucool33 New Member 10+ Year Member

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    Just no... food is literally the most important thing for me. One thing I like about big metro areas is all the restaurants they have to offer, from ethnic to high end. I have tried foods that I would never have been able to or even know about if I stayed at a small town. I feel like I wasted all those years... now I'm eating out all the time just to catch up.
     
  45. PAtoPharm

    PAtoPharm

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    ^^ This guy gets it. Also, it's nice just to be able to get out of the house sometimes and go out to places. The fact that people aren't really disputing what I've said about living in ultra-rural areas and are instead trying to rationalize why "it's not such a bad thing" to live in them really reaffirms the validity of my decision to GTFO of pharmacy school
     
  46. bulldog1123

    bulldog1123 2+ Year Member

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    Im not making any comments about pharmacy, its market, etc. We have both personally discussed it at lengths. Im simply defending my past home from your bashing and playing it out like its hell on earth. You overexaggerate it and I simply was pointing out it was false.
     
  47. Abby Atwood

    Abby Atwood

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    Got to stand up for dining choices in small towns. My small town has a lot more reasonably accessible (< 20 minute drive) independent restaurants than the larger city I moved from. I'm sure that's not the case everywhere, but lack of food options is not a universal truth for small towns.

    That said, there are two types of places that either don't exist or are in short supply here. There are no super fancy, black tie restaurants (it's a touristy area, so there are places with wine lists and table cloths and such, but patrons wear polo shirts ect). There are very few mid range counter service chains (e.g. Chipotle, Noodles & Company). A couple exist, but it's mostly independent restaurants or fast food.

    The one weird thing in my small town is that people don't really recognize chains. I had someone tell me about a great little ice cream shop that was an absolute must try, a staple of the community. It turned out to be a Coldstone Creamery. I mean, they were right. It was very good. :)
     
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  48. wucool33

    wucool33 New Member 10+ Year Member

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    Eww no lol come to LA and see what I'm talking about... ur taste buds will thank you
     
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  49. Abby Atwood

    Abby Atwood

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    I've only visited briefly. I'm not huge on black tie restaurants, so I don't miss it. I'm pretty into hole in the wall takeout though which works well with where I currently live. Also, less than 20min drive time seems out the window in LA. :)
     
  50. smercer

    smercer 5+ Year Member

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    Having access to a variety of food is nice and I agree that I enjoy being able to try ethnic style foods. I completely recommend to get out of your comfort zone and try different foods, however, it is not like you cannot simply drive to an area with these places and try them. At worst, you can take time to learn to cook these types of food. Also, as has been pointed out, this changes when you have kids. You may go to a different restaurant every night right now, but that adds up when you are paying for 4 people (plus typically kids do not care much for ethnic foods due to the spices/odd flavors, of course that can be cultivated with effort). The real argument here is just that some are city people and some just don't care to be in the middle of the city, which is perfectly fine, but stop making it seem like no one could stand to not be a stones throw from the city.

    Your wallet wont, lol.
     
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  51. PAtoPharm

    PAtoPharm

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    What doesn't sit well with me is the prospect of having no choice BUT to live in a BFE area due to job market saturation issues. Naturally wanting to live in a rural area is one thing, but if you've got no choice but to do so because there are practically no entry-level jobs in the profession you've picked in anywhere EXCEPT for BFE areas, then the whole thing becomes a deal-breaker for people who place a fairly high premium on location considerations and who can't imagine living in the middle of nowhere (I'm not talking about 30-50 mins. from a large city -- I'm talking south GA, which you even said you wouldn't want to live in). Just out of curiosity, how many of the people who graduated from your class had to move to extreme BFE areas like south GA or rural AL to find a job? According to job searches on sites like Indeed.com, there are basically zero job openings in the medium-sized cities in GA as well as Atlanta, so I'm just curious to know how far "out" people had to go.
     

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