Hospital Layoffs

[awval999]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Quite sobering news stories recently. This one especially hits home.

http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2013/09/cleveland_clinic_to_cut_330_mi.html

Cleveland Clinic to cut $330 million. 3,000 early retirements being sent out. Jobs to be cut when that is not enough.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20130918/BUSINESS05/309180127

Vanderbilt University to cut 1,000 jobs.

These aren't the local rural county hospital. These are world class institutions.

In my hospital we will have to cut two pharmacist FTEs. Fortunately there are 8 pharmacists below me. Per the assistant director layoffs would be based solely on seniority (as long as RPh has an "effective" annual review; all RPh have at least "effective" during the past year). Regardless of degree, residency, BCPS, etc--- just seniority.

Very sobering. Kinda makes me just want to stay for my whole career because I don't want to risk being on the chopping block if I'd ever transfer. Thoughts?

 

[OmiPharmD]

We are currently on the non staff cost cutting measures with a goal of $65 million for the hospital. We have deferred filling a couple pharmacist positions as a small buffer. The scary part is that this won't be going away. What will we be cutting a year from now after this 1st $65 million is cut?

I would not want to be new in any hospital system right now.

 

[BMBiology]

Here in California my friend from Kaiser is telling me they have to cut 10% of their budget because of medicare cuts. I have a job that I like but I am not sure what I would do if I loss it. I would probably have to move to Alaska lol

 

[MountainPharmD]

Here in California my friend from Kaiser is telling me they have to cut 10% of their budget because of medicare cuts. I have a job that I like but I am not sure what I would do if I loss it. I would probably have to move to Alaska lol

Whoa! Wait a minute...where all those pharmacist jobs Obamacare is going to bring in?

Wake up people! Anyone with any sense can figure out what is going to happen. The articles above are the tip of the iceberg. Five years from now you will be doing five times the work you do today for less money.

 

[Sparda29]

Whoa! Wait a minute...where all those pharmacist jobs Obamacare is going to bring in?

Wake up people! Anyone with any sense can figure out what is going to happen. The articles above are the tip of the iceberg. Five years from now you will be doing five times the work you do today for less money.

Ya, at my hospital they have been adding on a lot more of these "clinical" duties into the job description of the staff pharmacist. I wouldn't have a problem with it if I was allowed to make those clinical changes myself, but since I gotta call the doc on even ordering labs, that's where my problem comes in. I've gotten yelled at by docs who have me calling them at 930PM to get Vanco troughs and phenytoin levels and INRs and whatnot.

 

[awval999]

Ya, at my hospital they have been adding on a lot more of these "clinical" duties into the job description of the staff pharmacist. I wouldn't have a problem with it if I was allowed to make those clinical changes myself, but since I gotta call the doc on even ordering labs, that's where my problem comes in. I've gotten yelled at by docs who have me calling them at 930PM to get Vanco troughs and phenytoin levels and INRs and whatnot.

That's an administration/P&T issue. You---as a pharmacist--- should have authority to order labs in the course of drug therapy.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

Whoa! Wait a minute...where all those pharmacist jobs Obamacare is going to bring in?

Wake up people! Anyone with any sense can figure out what is going to happen. The articles above are the tip of the iceberg. Five years from now you will be doing five times the work you do today for less money.

My area might be the exception, We are actually hiring more pharmacists. I see 3 RPHs in 350 scripts a week store now. I see a lot of stores doing 250 scripts getting 2 rphs.

Either my supervisor messed up and over hired, or they are doing that on purpose.

 

[deleted205891]

Makes sense right now to find government jobs if you at all can. Probably the most secure, especially if it's an HHS or VA job as no republican or democrat will touch that funding.

 

[Unchained]

My area might be the exception, We are actually hiring more pharmacists. I see 3 RPHs in 350 scripts a week store now. I see a lot of stores doing 250 scripts getting 2 rphs.

Either my supervisor messed up and over hired, or they are doing that on purpose.

They are doing it because they are lining up pharmacists to fire. Your area is not the exception. Just give it a few weeks.

 

[KARM12]

Oh there are plenty more:

IU Health in Indy:
http://www.ibj.com/iu-health-to-lay-off-800-employees/PARAMS/article/43473

NorthShore in Chicago burbs:
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/arti...860/northshore-to-lay-off-about-130-employees

Barnabas Health in NJ:
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/09/clara_maass_lays_off_dozens_of_employees.html

 

[BMBiology]

I support our president but I think it is wrong to believe Obamacare is about expanding healthcare. It is about cutting cost and this paragraph from the above link says it all:

"While the layoffs are probably not a direct response to the poor quarter, they are part of a broader trend by even the largest hospital networksto trim staff and cut expenses ahead of revenue declines expected to be prompted by the Obama administration's health care law."

 

[MountainPharmD]

I support our president but I think it is wrong to believe Obamacare is about expanding healthcare. It is about cutting cost and this paragraph from the above link says it all:

"While the layoffs are probably not a direct response to the poor quarter, they are part of a broader trend by even the largest hospital networksto trim staff and cut expenses ahead of revenue declines expected to be prompted by the Obama administration's health care law."

No, its about expanding health care and robbing Peter to pay Paul in order to pay for it.

 

[Silent Cool]

No, its about expanding health care and robbing Peter to pay Paul in order to pay for it.

+1.

Welcome to your new socialist order.

 

[type b pharmD]

My area might be the exception, We are actually hiring more pharmacists. I see 3 RPHs in 350 scripts a week store now. I see a lot of stores doing 250 scripts getting 2 rphs.

Either my supervisor messed up and over hired, or they are doing that on purpose.

Same here. Face facts retail pharm brings in revenue big time, and it is growing.. hospital.. there are a lot of people out there working an effectively 20 hr work week and getting paid for 40.. like sparda will attest to and ive seen on all my hospital rotations

 

[Sparda29]

Same here. Face facts retail pharm brings in revenue big time, and it is growing.. hospital.. there are a lot of people out there working an effectively 20 hr work week and getting paid for 40.. like sparda will attest to and ive seen on all my hospital rotations

I saw the worst today. I switched with a buddy on the daytime crew today, so I ended up in the IV room. For me, time just flew by because I was constantly busy. Ordering TPNs (for the first time), making oddball doses of IVs, renewing the IV fluids w/K+ bags, reviewing all vancomycin orders and troughs, drawing up Lantus syringes and Vanco oral syringes. I started at 9 and didn't get out till 520. Meanwhile the crew doing verification in the work were joking around all day or pretending to do work for hours (like sitting there looking at the orders for the Geriatrics facility that we are connected to). Meanwhile the orders this pharmacist is looking at are from last month and completely different.

 

[type b pharmD]

I saw the worst today. I switched with a buddy on the daytime crew today, so I ended up in the IV room. For me, time just flew by because I was constantly busy. Ordering TPNs (for the first time), making oddball doses of IVs, renewing the IV fluids w/K+ bags, reviewing all vancomycin orders and troughs, drawing up Lantus syringes and Vanco oral syringes. I started at 9 and didn't get out till 520. Meanwhile the crew doing verification in the work were joking around all day or pretending to do work for hours (like sitting there looking at the orders for the Geriatrics facility that we are connected to). Meanwhile the orders this pharmacist is looking at are from last month and completely different.

Rofl!

At my first hospital rotation (large nonprofit hospital corp) most of the pharmacists took a one hour paid breakfast after clocking in but before actually doing anything. . Then always a 90 minute lunch and afternoon time was basically Facebook time. I think theu worked about 2-4 hours on a given day

 

[confettiflyer]

So for new grads, my "new world order" advice is this:

You probably have a lot of debt, sock away money into savings accounts and retirement accounts as a priority over retiring debt. Seniority is king in a lot of places regardless of degree/certifications. Be prepared to get knocked around and have $$ for things you can't negotiate payments on (rent/mortgage, food, gas, etc...)

It'll cost you more in the long run, but you'll insulate yourself from uncertainty and buy security with a cash cushion.

Also -- try to maintain two different work places (FT + per-diem, or even per-diem + per-diem if you can't swing an FT spot) as a hedge against uncertainty. It might suck working 6-7 days a week at times when both places are squeezing you for hours, but consider the alternative.

 

[type b pharmD]

So for new grads, my "new world order" advice is this:

You probably have a lot of debt, sock away money into savings accounts and retirement accounts as a priority over retiring debt. Seniority is king in a lot of places regardless of degree/certifications. Be prepared to get knocked around and have $$ for things you can't negotiate payments on (rent/mortgage, food, gas, etc...)

It'll cost you more in the long run, but you'll insulate yourself from uncertainty and buy security with a cash cushion.

Also -- try to maintain two different work places (FT + per-diem, or even per-diem + per-diem if you can't swing an FT spot) as a hedge against uncertainty. It might suck working 6-7 days a week at times when both places are squeezing you for hours, but consider the alternative.

Excellent advice.

 

[Sparda29]

Rofl!

At my first hospital rotation (large nonprofit hospital corp) most of the pharmacists took a one hour paid breakfast after clocking in but before actually doing anything. . Then always a 90 minute lunch and afternoon time was basically Facebook time. I think theu worked about 2-4 hours on a given day

Yup, I showed up at 845 to grab a quick breakfast from the cafeteria before starting, and one of the 7-3 pharmacists is in there chilling having breakfast. Usually the bull****ting stops when the DOP gets there around 8AM but that day he didn't come in till almost 12PM so the bsing just kept going on and on, other than the 5-10 mins when the clinical pharmacist stops by to get her laptop for rounds and then she doesn't come back till around 11-12 anyway.

 

[type b pharmD]

Yup, I showed up at 845 to grab a quick breakfast from the cafeteria before starting, and one of the 7-3 pharmacists is in there chilling having breakfast. Usually the bull****ting stops when the DOP gets there around 8AM but that day he didn't come in till almost 12PM so the bsing just kept going on and on, other than the 5-10 mins when the clinical pharmacist stops by to get her laptop for rounds and then she doesn't come back till around 11-12 anyway.

Yes. One old union curmudgeon told me on my first hospital rotation that "the reason 6am-2pm shifts are the best is because you never have to see the DOP" .. he was one of the ones who took about 4 hours of breaks per shift .. basically any time dop was not in the office.

Now hey, I am a big fan of doing the minimum necessary as long as patients get the care they deserve... and I definitely respect the cajones these types of pharmacists have... but, I do have to laugh a bit when people in such an environment complain about being labeled as a superfluous or unjustifiable payroll expense.

Either give me an environment with slack and 1000% job security ie govt.. or give me an environment where talent and hard work is rewarded. I wouldn't apply for jobs in these type of institutions where you can get canned for doing too much work ie getting a bad rep and also canned because nobody does enough work ie budget cuts.

 

[confettiflyer]

I wouldn't apply for jobs in these type of institutions where you can get canned for doing too much work ie getting a bad rep and also canned because nobody does enough work ie budget cuts.

Very wise way to look at the situation. In an economy lending itself to budget cuts, young people who work hard are screwed everywhere they go, basically.

But I kinda grew up with that "axe to drop" mentality - I was always on the lookout for jobs back before my pharmacy days, even if I was at a place I was happy with. I even interviewed a few times just for ****s and giggles.

 

[type b pharmD]

Very wise way to look at the situation. In an economy lending itself to budget cuts, young people who work hard are screwed everywhere they go, basically.

But I kinda grew up with that "axe to drop" mentality - I was always on the lookout for jobs back before my pharmacy days, even if I was at a place I was happy with. I even interviewed a few times just for ****s and giggles.

Yeah it is a good mindset to have. Especially if you are out there looking for cool jobs and willing to take some risks, also doubly true if you are working PRN .. not much to lose there and a lot to gain.

I'm taking the more conservative track and ultimately pursuing retail PIC as my early to mid career goal .. for a company that I know does what it takes to retain skilled managers and staff. Downside is I know I will not see slack and will have to work my ass off .. but that is the tradeoff you make these days. I have worked for my share of both for profit corps and nonprofits.. I like to hedge my bets and I am not good with politics and the academic mentality... I would rather bet on myself to increase revenues and profit than on a nebulous hierarchy and political games to reward me for slacking/working just the right amount. Of course, PIC/manager is not going to be available off the bat . I will probably look into PRN hospital if I can fit it into my schedule. All the PRN folk at my old hospital were generally happy as a clam.

But it may be something people get stuck with if they want to work in a city or hospital or academic environment. If it was me I would take a look at the department with a magnifying glass as well as the public financial records for the parent company before taking a full time job. I guess that is a good benefit of PRN work!

 

[Ackj]

But I kinda grew up with that "axe to drop" mentality - I was always on the lookout for jobs back before my pharmacy days, even if I was at a place I was happy with. I even interviewed a few times just for ****s and giggles.

So how does that work when the ****s and giggles interview calls up your employer for a reference?

 

[lorain]

so whats the solution?

 

[lorain]

i dont see how these cuts dont happen even without HC reform

Medicare is supposed to go bankrupt by like 2024ish, and has been making cuts recently, the hospitals would have to alter their budgets anyways to offset those decrease costs

I dont see a solution...these hospitals employ so many people and support communities, yet they are so expensive for services, where is the balance? sure cutting hospital reimbursement saves costs to medicare/insurance, but in turn hospital cuts staff which will hurt those communities....so whats the solution? to me I dont see a solution that doesnt screw out somebody (whether its big pharmay, hospitals, the employees, or the patients)

 

[type b pharmD]

i dont see how these cuts dont happen even without HC reform

Medicare is supposed to go bankrupt by like 2024ish, and has been making cuts recently, the hospitals would have to alter their budgets anyways to offset those decrease costs

I dont see a solution...these hospitals employ so many people and support communities, yet they are so expensive for services, where is the balance? sure cutting hospital reimbursement saves costs to medicare/insurance, but in turn hospital cuts staff which will hurt those communities....so whats the solution? to me I dont see a solution that doesnt screw out somebody (whether its big pharmay, hospitals, the employees, or the patients)

Well, one thing is smaller operators are going to be forced out of business or to merge.. so there will be some efficiencies of scale to be gained. . Although the reimbursement will probably be cut to compensate. .

There also may be some additional money taken from entities that are defrauding cms at the moment. Mills, labs, and ltc have all been featured in big busts lately . Even when no criminal or civil prosecution takes place cms will just take the money back through cuts.. conceivably this will be spent on expansion of volume and services.

Also there are literally billions to trillions in inefficiencies out there to take from.
The u.s. loses $1 trillion per decade due to poor medication adherence for example... if some of that could be prevented by better discharge and primary care and even pharmacy/mtm it could go toward patient care. Another example would be the millions of people on inappropriate therapies and getting unwarranted scans, medically unnecessary elective surgery that is being used to bilk cms .. doctors being reimbursed above market rate. .. insurers pocketing more than they pay out (thankfully now illegal) this is just the tip of the iceberg.

In the meantime companies will act preemptively .. in all industries .. like with the "great recession" .. in early 2009 corps basically said fire everyone you can... and now several years later a lot of those people were hired back. . I don't think we will see the aca increase hospital employment for a few more years. .. on the other hand, we are still seeing retail expansion .. like azn said, many stores that were once 1 pharmacist w overlap are now two fulltime pharmacists... 2 rph stores now have a third overlap , etc.

Jmho

 

[confettiflyer]

So how does that work when the ****s and giggles interview calls up your employer for a reference?

they won't. you explicitly authorize so when listing them. big ass HR faux pas to violate that...and my old industry knew better than to just make phone calls and contact current employers. unofficially they can call up a buddy who knows your boss, but then there's always plausible deniability...."i have no idea what you're talking about, they approached me boss..." which leads me to...

new opportunities can be used as leverage against current employers.

 

[confettiflyer]

Medicare is supposed to go bankrupt by like 2024ish,

Medicare cannot actually go "bankrupt" ...in its current incarnation, the US gov't would have to cease to exist for this to functionally occur. In that case, if Medicare magically became a corporation and could file for bankruptcy, courts wouldn't even exist at that point. In fact, there'd be no government to register the corporation, unless each state became a sovereign nation...

...yah i've had too much beer tonight.