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I thought this article in medscape was a pretty easy to digest and useful summary. He cites pretty equivalent immunity rates between previously infected and vaccinated individuals, maybe a little higher for previously infected. 'Hybrid' immunity seems to be the most protective.
I have seen it. The virus mutates and immunity wanes over time for some diseases. There are patients that got the alpha variant and are now re-infected with covid, but the delta variant. From a natural response, you don't control what the antibody targets (which means the targets can be sites on the virus that mutate) whereas the spike protein targeted by the vaccine has been relatively stable through the mutations. This is why we can't be vaccinated once for flu and be done.
Sure, but the data shows the vaccine works and is safe in those who already had covid, so how is that question relevant to public policy, especially at this time? Why is that the question being asked?
Because if they're equivalent, then the argument for requiring previously infected individuals to get a vaccine falls down.
I was speaking in general terms of bad data and did specify vaccine efficacy. If you can’t reliable tell who has already previously been infected (asymptomatic or symptomatic) then it’s harder to draw downstream conclusions.
The same can be said for the flu vaccine, which has been mandated at most healthcare facilities for ages. Is that also ‘irresponsible’?
You’re falling victim to base rate fallacy.
www.cdc.gov
The relevance to public policy is there are still billions of unvaccinated people in the world and the public health "experts" have been telling us that the unvaccinated masses are going to produce all the scary new variants. So instead of wasting vaccine on previously infected people who don't want it (or need it) we could ship some more internationally. Every single clinical outcomes study has shown previous infection to be equivalent or superior to vaccination with the exception of this deeply flawed, tiny, 2 month trial. This wouldn't even have been controversial 18 months ago.
Delta didn’t exist 18 months ago. Any other straw men to throw out?
The basic tenets of infectious disease and immunology existed 18 months ago.
Which basic tenets are you referring to?
The ability of the human immune system to generate a durable humoral and cell mediated response to pathogens it has previously been exposed to. Thereby making you fairly unlikely to get significantly ill upon reexposure to the same virus. Same tenets that apply to our vaccination efforts in fact.
This may be the study by the Cleveland Clinic Birdstrike was alluding to.
Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals
Background The purpose of this study was to evaluate the necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in persons previously infected with SARS-CoV-2. Methods Employees of the Cleveland Clinic Health System working in Ohio on Dec 16, 2020, the day COVID-19 vaccination was started, were included. Any...www.medrxiv.org
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
thehill.com
Joe Rogan: Vaccine passports ‘one step closer’ to dictatorship
Podcast host Joe Rogan ripped the idea of so-called vaccine passports on Friday, saying implementing such a system would bring the U.S. “one step closer” to a dictatorship.During an episo…
Voting a constitutional right and nothing in the constitution mandates ID check. The "right" to spread a deadly communicable disease is not guaranteed by the constitution.
That motivated me to look it up on the Googlez, and I found a mention of around 1816, with a con man claiming to be the son of a famed, free black mariner. Someone claiming to be the relative of someone noted is, now, a tired literary trope.
There was also a German study, a recent study out of Emory, and a handful of others that looked at natural immunity...and they concluded what I hoped they would, that those that got covid before the vaccine was an option, and were healthy with a good immune system had a dependable level of protection. But I don’t know if that will hold true with delta or lambda... This weekend, yahoo had an article about delta evading natural immunity and lambda evading the vaccines...This may be the study by the Cleveland Clinic Birdstrike was alluding to.
Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals
Background The purpose of this study was to evaluate the necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in persons previously infected with SARS-CoV-2. Methods Employees of the Cleveland Clinic Health System working in Ohio on Dec 16, 2020, the day COVID-19 vaccination was started, were included. Any...
Are any of the studies you mentioned done during a time of Delta prominence? If you got Covid, you’re pretty protected against COVID. If you had Delta, you’re likely pretty protected against Delta. If you’ve had COVID, your protection against Delta seems to be lower than if you’ve been vaccinated.
Can confirm I’ve seen a decent number of covid positive people who had prior covid infection and recovered.
Here's a paper showing a small reduction in neutralization with convalescent sera and vaccine induced antibodies but overall still protective.
no, i think they were all before, and that why I think the protection against delta, lambda and new variants is NOT known. however, I think the cdc press release of "Debate is Over" is a bit click baitish for a small data mined paper. Wouldn't be surprised if they wrote the headline first, then went and found the data to fit it second. Taking select pieces of data from a small populations is what vaccine failure reports are based on as well. For me, Arcan reporting what he sees in real life, and others echoing what they see in breakthrough disease is more reliable than the cdc; the debate on here has value. I trust nameless, faceless er docs on the internet over nameless, faceless bureaucrats on the internet. Let the docs figure out what to do going forward and let the cdc, fda and the like go back to blackboxing droperidol and promoting tamiflu.
So, how many do personally know who've died from the covid vaccination?
"Hey, Birdstrike, did you really need to eat an entire pizza after finishing that bacon cheeseburger?"
None, but it does happen.
Debate Is Over: COVID Vax Doubled Protection for the Previously Infected
'If you have had COVID-19 before, please still get vaccinated,' says CDC Directorwww.medpagetoday.com
Here’s your citation, just not the result you wanted.
Yeah, it's unfortunate the manner in which the media and the scientific community have interacted to publish so much garbage.
im curious what you think of the title. The cdc sounds like my wife in an argument. "Debate Over! followed by silent treatment. I appreciate that it made me stop and reconsider what I thought, but hypothesis generating is on the opposite end of definite conclusion.
