How a kinesthetic learner can adapt to this visual environment

[Sthpawslugger]

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So, I'm in my late 30s and finding more and more that I perform my best in courses that either are clinically-based or hands-on. Any other courses based on just rote memorization and being a good test-taker are my biggest obstacles. Has any fellow non-trads or otherwise experienced this? If so, what helped you adapt to become a better student in those other courses? I've tried watching sketchy, which has value and is entertaining...but just doesn't stick.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

So, I'm in my late 30s and finding more and more that I perform my best in courses that either are clinically-based or hands-on. Any other courses based on just rote memorization and being a good test-taker are my biggest obstacles. Has any fellow non-trads or otherwise experienced this? If so, what helped you adapt to become a better student in those other courses? I've tried watching sketchy, which has value and is entertaining...but just doesn't stick.

Anki, read out loud and explain things to yourself. Got to get yourself involved in the learning.

 

[mk04447]

My reading comprehension is about a third of these millennials. They're smart, but they aren't wise. Claw your way to 3rd year and you'll make up any ground you lost.

 

[Espressso]

So, I'm in my late 30s and finding more and more that I perform my best in courses that either are clinically-based or hands-on. Any other courses based on just rote memorization and being a good test-taker are my biggest obstacles. Has any fellow non-trads or otherwise experienced this? If so, what helped you adapt to become a better student in those other courses? I've tried watching sketchy, which has value and is entertaining...but just doesn't stick.

One thing that helped me during this first year was going to Lowe's and buying a giant plaster board that acts as a white board. Nail that in your bedroom, family room, living room, etc. And with each big concept/topic spend time standing in front of it and writing everything out, drawing the pathways, making the flowcharts. Go to sleep looking at it. Erase it and do it again. It helps a lot

 

[Durty-Trixxx]

One thing that helped me during this first year was going to Lowe's and buying a giant plaster board that acts as a white board. Nail that in your bedroom, family room, living room, etc. And with each big concept/topic spend time standing in front of it and writing everything out, drawing the pathways, making the flowcharts. Go to sleep looking at it. Erase it and do it again. It helps a lot

This advice is worth it's weight in gold 😉

Just like they say on rotations --- "See one, do one, teach one". If you can write it all out on a blank whiteboard (or iPad sketch pad) then that means you understand it. You saw it, did it, and now teaching yourself. The process gets even better if you can get a study group together on a regular basis where you are all explaining things on a whiteboard and playing "Medical Jeopardy" with each other. I've seen killer board scores from people who do these kinds of things.

 

[Major]

Definitely could use some ideas also

 

[libertyyne]

My reading comprehension is about a third of these millennials. They're smart, but they aren't wise. Claw your way to 3rd year and you'll make up any ground you lost.

still need those board scores tho. And shelf exam scores.

 

[MakeLifeHappen13]

Unfortunately a good portion of our pre-clinical years is rote memorization. There is no way around it. My suggestions would be:

1. Spaced repetition, this is best done through Anki, or if you don't like flash cards you can just draw and redraw graphs and write and rewrite notes until they stick.

2. Find a good study buddy or group of friends and explain things to them, and quiz each other. Nothing burns concepts into my brain better than when I explain something verbally.

 

[mk04447]

still need those board scores tho. And shelf exam scores.

Just my observation, but I think there's something to an older student making it to clinicals. Millennials are used to and better at amassing large amounts of information. X and Y folks are more adept at organizing, using, and retaining it. The difference is seen in learning, between pounding through slides over and over trying to spot the factoids, a large chunk of which they couldn't tell you 15 minutes after a test, vs. talking through and attempting to understand information. Step 1 was a bitch, but shelves have been much easier IMO, and so far Step 2 Q-banks seem reasonable; let you know in a few months though. Either way, better than telling the guy he's ****ed and I think the class gains a lot from an older presence, the way we approach things is absolutely different.

 

[libertyyne]

Just my observation, but I think there's something to an older student making it to clinicals. Millennials are used to and better at amassing large amounts of information. X and Y folks are more adept at organizing, using, and retaining it. The difference is seen in learning, between pounding through slides over and over trying to spot the factoids, a large chunk of which they couldn't tell you 15 minutes after a test, vs. talking through and attempting to understand information. Step 1 was a bitch, but shelves have been much easier IMO, and so far Step 2 Q-banks seem reasonable; let you know in a few months though. Either way, better than telling the guy he's ****ed and I think the class gains a lot from an older presence, the way we approach things is absolutely different.

Im not saying the guy is ****ed. I just think OP just has to adjust to medical school and figure out a way to compete. I know of an older student in my class who is now going to be remediating a year, but that student was not using their time wisely and didnt make changes necessary to get through. I also know a bunch of 30+ students in M1s who are killing it ,like top decile in the class. I think saying one can not compete or cant amass a large amount of information is just defeatist. I dont think older students dont have the horse power to compete . They got accepted with MCATs and GPAs that were competitive. I guess my contention is with the idea that you cant teach an old dog new tricks.

 

[Major]

still need those board scores tho. And shelf exam scores.

Yeah for sure.

Hard thing about being a kinesthic learner, for me anways, that it can be very inefficient time wise to study the way I have to. ie, drawing and writing things out in the white board again and again. And then having to pace Around talking out loud.

I’ve noticed I use a lot time, but also feeling physically/mentally drained as well.

I wish I could just sit down and rewatch and all the lectures at 1.5x speed and retain it all that way...

 

[libertyyne]

Yeah for sure.

Hard thing about being a kinesthic learner, for me anways, that it can be very inefficient time wise to study the way I have to. ie, drawing and writing things out in the white board again and again. And then having to pace Around talking out loud.

Not only have I notice i use a lot time, but it is also physically/mentally draining as well.

I wish I could just sit down and rewatch and all the lectures at 1.5x speed and retain it all that way...

no body is retaing it that way. I know a few students who use that strategy and are barely passing. Give Anki a shot. I know you are pigeon holing yourself into that type of learner. But from my rudimentary understanding those learning identities are utter horse****. https://www.psychologicalscience.org/journals/pspi/PSPI_9_3.pdf

 

[mk04447]

Im not saying the guy is ****ed. I just think OP just has to adjust to medical school and figure out a way to compete. I know of an older student in my class who is now going to be remediating a year, but that student was not using their time wisely and didnt make changes necessary to get through. I also know a bunch of 30+ students in M1s who are killing it ,like top decile in the class. I think saying one can not compete or cant amass a large amount of information is just defeatist. I dont think older students dont have the horse power to compete . They got accepted with MCATs and GPAs that were competitive. I guess my contention is with the idea that you cant teach an old dog new tricks.

Not a fair analysis. We aren't talking about new tricks, the world changed. You've been looking things up in Google since kindergarten. You've had years dealing with unlimited resources and data. I didn't get my first computer until I was 16 and it didn't do ****. The internet and touch tone phones didn't exist. I used the same set of encyclopedias to complete my assignments throughout school; Google was invented 2 years after I graduated. We learn new things differently. Our brains didn't develop with the same stimulus, I realize the concept is foreign to you, but there are real differences. We didn't have Tinder, Plenty of Fish, and Adult Friend Finder, we had to be cute and charming to get dates the hard way; I'd like to see your generation do that.

 

[libertyyne]

Not a fair analysis. We aren't talking about new tricks, the world changed. You've been looking things up in Google since kindergarten. You've had years dealing with unlimited resources and data. I didn't get my first computer until I was 16 and it didn't do ****. The internet and touch tone phones didn't exist. I used the same set of encyclopedias to complete my assignments throughout school; Google was invented 2 years after I graduated. We learn new things differently. Our brains didn't develop with the same stimulus, I realize the concept is foreign to you, but there are real differences. We didn't have Tinder, Plenty of Fish, and Adult Friend Finder, we had to be cute and charming to get dates the hard way; I'd like to see your generation do that.

You have basically parroted every meme/sterotype about millenials in that paragraph. Why leave out avocado toast?

Seriously tho there are a number of unfounded claims and problems with the argument you are making.
1. Being immersed in technology makes you better at retaining information.
2. Being immersed in technology changes the brain where older indviduals cant retain the same amount of information.
3. Being immersed in technology makes you bad at person to person interaction.
4. Older individuals are incapable to retaining information at the same level as millenials are, or during the same time.

You can continue to live in a world where you believe you have inferior retention capability. Or you know, you could try different things and compete. I have given you clear examples in my class of people who are older and killing it, and they did not grow up with a smart phone in their hands. I personally have taught millenials and gen-x, even baby boomers. And there are dumb people in each group, and there are smart hard working people in each group.

 

[mk04447]

You have basically parroted every meme/sterotype about millenials in that paragraph. Why leave out avocado toast?

Seriously tho there are a number of unfounded claims and problems with the argument you are making.
1. Being immersed in technology makes you better at retaining information.
2. Being immersed in technology changes the brain where older indviduals cant retain the same amount of information.
3. Being immersed in technology makes you bad at person to person interaction.
4. Older individuals are incapable to retaining information at the same level as millenials are, or during the same time.

You can continue to live in a world where you believe you have inferior retention capability. Or you know, you could try different things and compete. I have given you clear examples in my class of people who are older and killing it, and they did not grow up with a smart phone in their hands. I personally have taught millenials and gen-x, even baby boomers. And there are dumb people in each group, and there are smart hard working people in each group.

Ha. You read a lot into my comment. Don't be sensitive.

I think more mature medical students retain, process, and use MORE information than millennials immersed in technology their entire lives. We've learned how to use your gadgets in a fraction of the time and have no problem acquiring seats in medical schools with far more obstacles to overcome, in fact, the schools themselves believe your generation lacks interpersonal skills. But... I'm talking about information here, kids pour over thousands of slides attempting to memorize every dash and comma, because they are trying to ace a test and they've been told to; they aren't trying to learn and understand medicine. They don't triage the information, they forget the insignificant and vital with equal frequency.

Sure you'll find dumb folks in any age range, but there is more here than an argument, this discussion identifies a flaw in the system. If you do any research on the subject, you'll find studies have identified REAL differences between generations, beliefs, work ethic, loyalty, motivating factors, etc. What really hasn't changed is medical school; maybe it should.

Anyway, I'll debate this more later if you want, but I've gotta get going to my rotation and my walker slows me down a bit.

 

[libertyyne]

Ha. You read a lot into my comment. Don't be sensitive.

I think more mature medical students retain, process, and use MORE information than millennials immersed in technology their entire lives. We've learned how to use your gadgets in a fraction of the time and have no problem acquiring seats in medical schools with far more obstacles to overcome, in fact, the schools themselves believe your generation lacks interpersonal skills. But... I'm talking about information here, kids pour over thousands of slides attempting to memorize every dash and comma, because they are trying to ace a test and they've been told to; they aren't trying to learn and understand medicine. They don't triage the information, they forget the insignificant and vital with equal frequency.

Sure you'll find dumb folks in any age range, but there is more here than an argument, this discussion identifies a flaw in the system. If you do any research on the subject, you'll find studies have identified REAL differences between generations, beliefs, work ethic, loyalty, motivating factors, etc. What really hasn't changed is medical school; maybe it should.

Anyway, I'll debate this more later if you want, but I've gotta get going to my rotation and my walker slows me down a bit.

This is where our disagreement is. What is funny is I am closer to your age than the average millennial. I would love to see the real differences you are claiming in a real peer reviewed high quality paper. Perhaps you can share some of these real differences and the real impact they are having on competing in class. All I know is that a lot of these differences get parroted in popular cultlures without good studies behind them like the learner style non-sense. And older students are every bit as capable of competiting on the minutia and step front that younger students are, the question is do you want to. ..

 

[mk04447]

This is where our disagreement is. What is funny is I am closer to your age than the average millennial. I would love to see the real differences you are claiming in a real peer reviewed high quality paper. Perhaps you can share some of these real differences and the real impact they are having on competing in class. All I know is that a lot of these differences get parroted in popular cultlures without good studies behind them like the learner style non-sense. And older students are every bit as capable of competiting on the minutia and step front that younger students are, the question is do you want to. ..

I'd be willing to wager what you want exists, but I won't be the looking those studies up for you. I did find a good synopsis of the types I'm talking about on Google... https://www.r1consulting.com/baby-b...-in-the-workplace-a-melting-pot-of-expertise/

Prior to medicine I ran regional operations for a large national company and consulting groups like the one above hovered in our lobby much like pharm reps harass doctors. This is the type of analysis held true, almost universally, I can't tell you how often millennial parents called in for them and tried to litigate their problems or negotiate their compensation. Point is there are differences.

With differences comes strengths and weaknesses. The fact that you're arguing none exist tells me you're further from my age chronology or experiencially. What works for one won't necessarily work for the other, that's my overreaching point. Just like differences in children, simply working harder isn't always the answer, there may be gaps in learning, reading issues, or instructional problems. The ladder is what I illuded to earlier.

Medical school is a dinosaur. As research progresses, deeper clinically insignificant facts creep into our slides, get tested, and fall by the wayside. Young medical students have a hard time seeing past Monday's exam and they prepare for it, do well, and forget. 80% of the test was relevant and important, the rest was one animal study away from useless. I suspect the OP isn't getting many of the remaining 20% correct. Since he is a hands on learner, something he should know, he's likely having trouble creating useful scenarios to form memory the hooks needed to retain this information. I am telling him not to worry about that, move on.

 

[libertyyne]

I'd be willing to wager what you want exists, but I won't be the looking those studies up for you. I did find a good synopsis of the types I'm talking about on Google... https://www.r1consulting.com/baby-b...-in-the-workplace-a-melting-pot-of-expertise/

Prior to medicine I ran regional operations for a large national company and consulting groups like the one above hovered in our lobby much like pharm reps harass doctors. This is the type of analysis held true, almost universally, I can't tell you how often millennial parents called in for them and tried to litigate their problems or negotiate their compensation. Point is there are differences.

With differences comes strengths and weaknesses. The fact that you're arguing none exist tells me you're further from my age chronology or experiencially. What works for one won't necessarily work for the other, that's my overreaching point. Just like differences in children, simply working harder isn't always the answer, there may be gaps in learning, reading issues, or instructional problems. The ladder is what I illuded to earlier.

Medical school is a dinosaur. As research progresses, deeper clinically insignificant facts creep into our slides, get tested, and fall by the wayside. Young medical students have a hard time seeing past Monday's exam and they prepare for it, do well, and forget. 80% of the test was relevant and important, the rest was one animal study away from useless. I suspect the OP isn't getting many of the remaining 20% correct. Since he is a hands on learner, something he should know, he's likely having trouble creating useful scenarios to form memory the hooks needed to retain this information. I am telling him not to worry about that, move on.

Im gonna go ahead and say the evidence doesnt exist and this guy is once again pandering to pop psych.

I acknowledge there are differences in people and perhaps there might be variation between generations in ability. However I would argue that there is larger variation within a generation than between generations. Millenials dont own the copyright on consuming a large amount of information and regurgitating it on a test and doing well in medical school. And saying otherwise is a disservice to older students. Now if older students dont want to do that, thats on them. But it seems like your mind is already made up.

 

[mk04447]

Im gonna go ahead and say the evidence doesnt exist and this guy is once again pandering to pop psych.

I acknowledge there are differences in people and perhaps there might be variation between generations in ability. However I would argue that there is larger variation within a generation than between generations. Millenials dont own the copyright on consuming a large amount of information and regurgitating it on a test and doing well in medical school. And saying otherwise is a disservice to older students. Now if older students dont want to do that, thats on them. But it seems like your mind is already made up.

Fine, but doing well in medical school isn't getting A's. It's learning to be a good doctor.

I've said this in multiple places, you leave medical school with two things:
1. A rudimentary understanding of medicine
2. A list of folks you don't want as a doctor

I don't know OP, nor do I truly care if he finds the door after 6 years. I would prefer he cures cancer, but this won't be determined by his pre-clinical performance, someone has to occupy the bottom two quartiles anyway.