how any times is too many?

[akim0414]

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how many times is too many when reapplying? this past year was my second time applying to MD schools and i have gotten nowhere. am i just completely screwed? or, if i retook the MCAT and scored higher, would i have a chance at a US MD school? any advice?

 

[boobah16]

how many times is too many when reapplying? this past year was my second time applying to MD schools and i have gotten nowhere. am i just completely screwed? or, if i retook the MCAT and scored higher, would i have a chance at a US MD school? any advice?

Do you have any additional information that you are willing to share? Its hard to determine whether you are "completely screwed" without knowing gpa/mcat score/ECs... And just for the record NO amount of times is too many! dont give up! 🙂

 

[LizzyM]

You need to look at your application objectively and look at where you applied.

Did you apply to schools that have an average MCAT and gpa that is close to your own? Are there any schools that have averages close to your own numbers? (If not, you may want to retake the MCAT or reconsider your career choices, depending on how much you need to improve to be competitive).

Is there a chance that your LOR are screwing your chances of getting in? Really bad letters are rare but they can happen. Also, dumb letters, like asking your next door neighbor to write a letter because he's a surgeon.

Boobah's right, more information about your appie would be helpful in making a decision about what to do next.

 

[akim0414]

thanks guys. my undergrad gpa was a 3.4 and my grad (well, i am in a PhD prgram at columbia) is a 3.8. i know that my MCAT scores are the problem. seems that every time that i take it, i will raise two out of the three sections by a point or two (getting me in the 12-13 range) but then the third section screws me up. i have good recommendation letters and three years of research experience (with several publications). in addition, i have volunteer/clinical experience.
i did apply to a carribean school and got into it. but i am not sure about going. i was thinking about continuing with my PhD program (so if i do end up reapplying i will have earned my MA and MPhil) and reapply to MD schools in two years. i was just worried that the more times i apply to MD schools the more it will work against me even if i improve my application.
what do you guys think?

 

[LizzyM]

Grade inflation in grad school being what it is, a high graduate gpa doesn't help much but a PhD will impress some adcom. I'd suggest sticking out the PhD and applying the summer before you plan to graduate. That may mean that some of your MCAT scores are "old" but I'm not sure about how old they have to be before they are no longer on your record.

A little more information about your MCAT might help. As long as all three sections are at least 8, I would think that you'd be competitive, particularly if you have 12 or 13 in one or more. How's the verbal? Sometimes that's forgivable, particularly if you have a good writing score and/or a good personal statement.

Once you have your PhD or are close to that point, you will need to rethink your personal statement to emphasis your desire to be a scientist and a physician.

 

[boobah16]

I agree with LizzyM's advice. Holding off on applying while you improve your application is your best bet, and following through to finish your PhD should be looked upon favorably (speculation- I am not in that position nor do I know anyone who is). I wouldn't go to a carribean school if you feel like its not the place for you. I would say an undergrad 3.4 with sections in the 12-13 range will be fine to get in in the US and as long as you can keep all of them at about an 8-9 range I dont think you should have a problem. THose scores definitely arent bad, but from what you say, its sounds like your MCAT has been your weakness in the past. Would you consider taking a prep-course?
I hope some of this helps... good luck and it sounds like you are on the right track!

 

[caliente]

Just snooping around the forum and found this thread...

As others have said, you haven't given much information but your numbers actually don't sound bad at all. Perhaps you are applying to schools that are too "competitive" given your one low MCAT section and an undergrad gpa that could be improved slightly (I'm only postulating here because you go to Columbia which is a "high-end" school...)? Are there any schools where your scores on average are above the admissions' average? I can't think of any schools, but I'm sure I've come across schools where the average gpa was below 3.4 and MCAT scores of 8 or 9 were allowable (maybe even 7 if the other sections were good - like in your case).

 

[TheFish005]

Have you considered applying to DO schools? I was in the same situation as you, being rejected 2 years in a row at MD schools, and applied DO for my third attempt and was accepted to 2 schools. I'm now nearing the end of my first year, and couldn't be happier. Alot of premeds overlook DO schools for one reason or another (me included at first), usually preconceived notions about DO's not being 'real doctors.' I hope that isn't the reason. At least look at the AOA website about it; it's an option that should at least be considered. Good luck with your decision.

-E-
COMP 2008

 

[akim0414]

thanks for all the advice. the problem with me now is that i am just pissed - i have friends with much lower stats then myself who have gotten into medical school. and after reapplying again and again, i just feel frusterated. i guess i am one of those people who are stubborn and try harder to do something when they are told they can't do it. anyways, because of all of this pent up anger and frusteration i am restless in my PhD program. if i do decide to reapply to MD schools within the next three years i will only have earned my MA and MPhil (my PhD will be many years off). i feel as though if i don't try once more to get into an MD program it will truly haunt me for a long time and cast a shadow over everything i do. but what can i truly do? i can retake the MCATs, do more volunteer work, etc. but will that be enough to make me a better candidate (although i have applied a few times before)? my real question is, how many times reapplying is too many times? is there anyone who has actually tried like seven times before they got accepted? thanks for letting me vent!

 

[boobah16]

my real question is, how many times reapplying is too many times? is there anyone who has actually tried like seven times before they got accepted? thanks for letting me vent!

I dont know anyone that has gone through this recently, but actually MY doctor revealed to me that he applied FIVE times before finally being accepted. I am not in this situation, but I can honestly say that as long as you continually improve your application, I dont think adcoms would see it as a bad thing... just my two cents.

 

[cammy1313]

thanks for all the advice. the problem with me now is that i am just pissed - i have friends with much lower stats then myself who have gotten into medical school. and after reapplying again and again, i just feel frusterated. i guess i am one of those people who are stubborn and try harder to do something when they are told they can't do it. anyways, because of all of this pent up anger and frusteration i am restless in my PhD program. if i do decide to reapply to MD schools within the next three years i will only have earned my MA and MPhil (my PhD will be many years off). i feel as though if i don't try once more to get into an MD program it will truly haunt me for a long time and cast a shadow over everything i do. but what can i truly do? i can retake the MCATs, do more volunteer work, etc. but will that be enough to make me a better candidate (although i have applied a few times before)? my real question is, how many times reapplying is too many times? is there anyone who has actually tried like seven times before they got accepted? thanks for letting me vent!

I was preparing myself to go to Australia if I wasn't accepted this year. Have been deferring University of Sydney for a couple of years just to see once and for all if I could make it. So you have other options. A friend took the MCAT 5 times and applied 5 times till she finally got in to Albany med. Also, have you considered applying early decision? Talk to the dean at a particular school and see what they say your chances would be if you opted for that route. I think at this point it wouldn't hurt to establish a solid relationship with someone in power at a specific school so that they see your dedication and frustration first-hand. And one other resort would be a post-bac like Georgetown or BU. It's the only reason I was accepted to BU, I think.

 

[CRY2STAL]

Akim:

Hang in there...I applied four times, and the 4th time was a charm. I applied twice right out of undergrad, and was wait-listed/rejected. I went on to law school, and practiced three years b4 trying for 2003. Too soon...the schools were not impressed with improved MCAT scores, and instead wanted to see a updated science GPA and a demonstration of my committment to science. My 2005 application addressed that, and I am in...I would have applied AGAIN and AGAIN, b/c like you said, it would have haunted me... I was prepared to go to the Caribbean, and for me it was a viable and realistic option, since I really desire to be a physician (and could care less about what others think about a foreign med educ.).

Your numbers look good...the MCAT scores seem on point...maybe the schools you are applying to are too competitive...does your application evidence your interest in science...I failed to note what your graduate studies are in...Maybe you can finish up your current program, and re-apply in 2 years. MCAT scores are good for 3 years. IT WILL HAPPEN FOR YOU!

 

[qqq]

3 years before you matriculate or 3 years before you apply?

 

[qqq]

. . . cuz if it's 3 years before you matriculate, then it's kind of like they're only good for 2 years. that is, once you take the mcat, you better apply in two years (not three).

 

[akim0414]

here is a situation that i was considering - please give me some advice!!
i am pretty sure that i won't be getting in anywhere this year. however i did get into a foreign medical school. i was thinking about reapplying this coming june/july and delaying my matriculation into the foreign medical school. if i were to do this the only improvement that i could make on my application would be my mcat scores (which i would take in august and i am sure that with some studying i coudl do better). also, i could take some summer classes but i don't know how much that would help my gpa and do some more medical oriented volunteer work. it is just that i don't think that i can handle my PhD program anymore. what do you guys think? would it be even worth it to re-apply the next year?

 

[lgriffie]

I thought I would give my advice on this situation since the past few years I have worked with many residents and have gotten a lot of stats on people over the years. I had a friend who applied 3 years in a row and his 3rd year he was finally pulled off the waitlist and his first semester in med school, he honored all but one of his classes. One of the residents that I worked with had a girl in his med class that applied 9 times before being accepted. She graduated validictorian of her class and all the professors kept asking her why she waited so long to apply to med school and she had to explain to them that she applied 9 time and was rejected 8 times in a row. So my advice to you is don't give up. If this is your dream, you can acheive it. there is never too many times to apply, just keep at it. And just because you may be the last person accepted in a class, does not mean that you cannot be one of the top in the class.

 

[Axe]

The problem is that most schools will not accept you if you are already in a PhD program unless you make it clear that you will be finished with the degree prior to matriculation in August 06. Youre going to have to decide whether to delay applying until after the PhD or make a clean break with the the PhD program and reapply for the 05 AmCAS.

You have a good background and people get in with less. Going to the Carribean rarely makes any sense unless you want to be stuck with the scut jobs in medicine.

 

[HIghbury]

Why do I feel that you are a forieign student. If a foreign student applies with such scores, that foreign student can still get rejected due to immensely limited funds and slots. That scenario I can evisage. You should not have problem getting interviews at the very least with such scores even with a below par performance in one section. That is my humble opinion.

 

[SmartAlek]

how many times is too many when reapplying? this past year was my second time applying to MD schools and i have gotten nowhere. am i just completely screwed? or, if i retook the MCAT and scored higher, would i have a chance at a US MD school? any advice?

I have never applied to med school but I would suggest increasing the number of schools that you apply to to increase your chances and when you reapply try to have a new experience whether it be clinical, retaking the MCAT, fresh letter, or new classes. I plan to apply one day and from seeing others being rejected I askedmyself what I would do in those situations and that is the advice that I have goven you. 😛

 

[Visioncam]

I interviewed applicants this year. I just got a memo telling me which ones were accepted, on waiting list, rejected.

Most applicants could have improved their applications. So if you are considering re-application, improve your application (every way you can as long as it's an improvment) and re-apply.

 

[BaylorGuy]

I interviewed applicants this year. I just got a memo telling me which ones were accepted, on waiting list, rejected.

Most applicants could have improved their applications. So if you are considering re-application, improve your application (every way you can as long as it's an improvment) and re-apply.

What would you consider an improvement on applications??? Better written PS and more clinical experience??? I'm just wondering, because there doesn't seem to be a whole bunch of people that would hae something super outstanding and not make it the first time

 

[Celiac Plexus]

The problem is that most schools will not accept you if you are already in a PhD program unless you make it clear that you will be finished with the degree prior to matriculation in August 06. Youre going to have to decide whether to delay applying until after the PhD or make a clean break with the the PhD program and reapply for the 05 AmCAS.
QUOTE]


this is true for many adcoms. they don't like "poaching" other graduate programs. also, the fact that you are in a phd program, but applying to an md program raises some questions like... "why is he trying to jump ship?", "if he bails on the phd, will he then bail on the md for something else?". adcoms may question your sincerity about wanting to become a physician.

it sounds like you are not really interested on the phd program. it sounds like you are just doing this to get in to medical school. if that is the case, then quit the program, and move on. if you are truly interested in the phd, then complete it, do a great job, and reapply. being a phd student can be a liabililty when applying to med school, but having one is a bonus.

also, although you probably don't want to hear it, you may want to do some heavy thinking about why you even want to go to medical school. perhaps it's best to just let go, and move on with your life. you sound like a very bright and hard-working person, so i'm sure you have some other, less taxing, less stressful options. who knows, maybe failing to gain admission to medical school is a blessing in disguise...

best of luck.