How are we going to afford these loans?

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The vast majority of open positions I've researched in IL are in the 200-230 range.

It's just the truth.

You really shouldn't be looking for open positions because the jobs you will ultimately get after residency will be through recruiting/headhunting agencies as well as connections you make during residency and fellowship training.

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The vast majority of open positions I've researched in IL are in the 200-230 range.

It's just the truth.

Well, I'm sure that the attending appreciates your efforts towards letting him know the truth about what salaries are like in his field.
 
Well, I'm sure that the attending appreciates your efforts towards letting him know the truth about what salaries are like in his field.
People on here need to stop with the whole "attending, thus they must know everything." People on every level for every field everywhere you go will know some things, and will not know others. Just because they're an attending, it doesn't mean that they are well versed in all aspects of their fields. Both of my parents are Internists, and have been for years. It doesn't mean that they know what's going on in salaries, especially if it's in a state outside of their own.
 
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People on here need to stop with the whole "attending, thus they must know everything." People on every level for every field everywhere you go will know some things, and will not know others. Just because they're an attending, it doesn't mean that they are well versed in all aspects of their fields. Both of my parents are Internists, and have been for years. It doesn't mean that they know what's going on in salaries, especially if it's in a state outside of their own.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/60145213/2010-MGMA-Physician-Compensation-Survey-Summary
 
People on here need to stop with the whole "attending, thus they must know everything." People on every level for every field everywhere you go will know some things, and will not know others. Just because they're an attending, it doesn't mean that they are well versed in all aspects of their fields. Both of my parents are Internists, and have been for years. It doesn't mean that they know what's going on in salaries, especially if it's in a state outside of their own.

Call me crazy but I'm guessing that someone in a field is better informed than a premed. And have you asked your parents about salaries for internists? Unless you're doing some sort of neuroosmosis, just because they're your parents doesn't mean that you know what's going on in salaries.


No offense, but I've learned to take these surveys with a grain of salt. They're just not accurate, from what I've seen.

What have you seen, pray tell? It must be very impressive to discount data generated from a survey that asks physicians directly for their salary.
 
Call me crazy but I'm guessing that someone in a field is better informed than a premed. And have you asked your parents about salaries for internists? Unless you're doing some sort of neuroosmosis, just because they're your parents doesn't mean that you know what's going on in salaries.




What have you seen, pray tell?
Of course, I've asked them, they don't know, and what does being a premed have to do with it? Research is research. I'm not some young kid straight out of undergrad. Funny enough, my best friend works at a Physician recruiting firm. I mean, dude, it's not like I want to be right, lol. I would love for salaries to actually be much higher, but that just hasn't been my experience, at least here in IL, especially considering in hospital employee situations, which will be the norm ten years from now.

I don't trust these surveys because their data tends to not be scientific, volunteer based, faulty, and inaccurate. I mean, an average Internist salary of $214K, but with a standard deviation of $84K? Wow.
 
If you're that worried, then simply don't go to medical school. What kind of answer are you looking for? Someone to hold you tight and tell you everything is going to be okay? With such strong worries, why not decline your acceptance(s) and reapply to med school when you find out how you're going to pay off those future loans!
 
Of course, I've asked them, they don't know, and what does being a premed have to do with it? Research is research. I'm not some young kid straight out of undergrad. Funny enough, my best friend works at a Physician recruiting firm. I mean, dude, it's not like I want to be right, lol. I would love for salaries to actually be much higher, but that just hasn't been my experience, at least here in IL, especially considering in hospital employee situations, which will be the norm ten years from now.

I don't trust these surveys because their data tends to not be scientific, volunteer based, faulty, and inaccurate. I mean, an average Internist salary of $214K, but with a standard deviation of $84K? Wow.

So far all I've been hearing is about how you know people that are affiliated with medicine but your appeal to authority is a fallacy and this doesn't lend your arguments any credence. It's apparent that you are unfamiliar with physician groups. Let's see this "research" of yours. And what proof do you have that the data is faulty and inaccurate?
 
So far all I've been hearing is about how you know people that are affiliated with medicine but this doesn't lead your arguments any credence. Let's see this "research" of yours. And what proof do you have that the data is faulty and inaccurate?
What argument? All I said was that most of the openings that I've seen are in the 200-250K range. I'm not looking for an argument here, I'm just looking for some advice and data beyond simply "the attending says you're wrong" and a questionable salary survey. Maybe share some experiences of your own (you're a med student, right? What year? Have you heard about how salaries are like these days? How do you plan on dealing with debt?)

Lol, premeds and med students are so used to debates that they just create ones. Relax, buddy.
 
If you're that worried, then simply don't go to medical school. What kind of answer are you looking for? Someone to hold you tight and tell you everything is going to be okay? With such strong worries, why not decline your acceptance(s) and reapply to med school when you find out how you're going to pay off those future loans!
No, my goal was to find advice on how to effectively deal with the debt. You know, by being prepared and informed. Thanks to this thread, I'm now more knowledgeable about IBR.
 
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What argument? All I said was that most of the openings that I've seen are in the 200-250K range. I'm not looking for an argument here, I'm just looking for some advice and data beyond simply "the attending says you're wrong" and a questionable salary survey. Maybe share some experiences of your own (you're a med student, right? What year? Have you heard about how salaries are like these days? How do you plan on dealing with debt?)

Lol, premeds and med students are so used to debates that they just create ones. Relax, buddy.

One thing that you're not realizing is that there are a million ways to set up your practice situation, leading to a million ways to get income. The MD/PhD who gets paid to do predominantly research is included in those surveys. The academic physicians that make 25-50% of private practice physicians are included in there. You also have to keep in mind that geography is HUGE here - your salary will get crushed in areas that are "desirable" while you can make RIDICULOUS incomes if you're willing to live off of the beaten path. The salary of someone willing to work in a less desirable area in the south in private practice may very well make 200-400% of the salary of, say, an academic physician in a large city. That shouldn't be all that surprising to you. A large standard deviation doesn't make the data invalid. Salaries occur over a broad spectrum - as you should expect. Real life doesn't present medians with nice, tight standard deviations.

It seems somewhat foolhardy to take the input of your internist parents and your "friend that works at a recruiting firm" over a survey salary that, while no doubt flawed in some respects, presents a portrait of average incomes across the entire nation. That MGMA survey is especially valuable when you look at the region-specific data and see how big some of the differences can be (e.g., south/midwest vs. the coasts).
 
Still a gift horse.

Obamacare is going to dump tens of billions into healthcare. Don't worry, we won't all be losers.

And that disproves the general trend of declining reimbursements... how? PCPs will be the winners initially, however you're a fool if you think POLITICALLY CONTROLLED REIMBURSEMENT RATES aren't going to continue to fall.
 
And that disproves the general trend of declining reimbursements... how? PCPs will be the winners initially, however you're a fool if you think POLITICALLY CONTROLLED REIMBURSEMENT RATES aren't going to continue to fall.

Obamacare established the IPAB to depoliticize reimbursement decisions. Look it up.
 
Not to mention that the IPAB has no true authority other than advisory.

You're thinking of MedPAC.

IPAB is authorized to make binding reimbursement decisions. It will only be constituted to do so if Medicare fails to meet certain growth restrictions. Congress can negate IPAB's decisions, but it must either 1.) submit its own proposal to meet the same spending target, or 2.) override IPAB with a two-thirds majority.

And boom goes the dynamite.
 
Good comeback.

So how's that depolitization working with the current RUC? Totally not politicized at all. Nope. The RUC was also established with similar intent.

Also, the IPAB is strictly forbidden from doing anything that might possibly be considered "rationing." I think that might be one of the phrases actually used in the law. Regardless, it is given the task of a lion but has the power of a sloth. I have zero faith in the ability of the IPAB to actually reduce costs in any meaningful way.
 
There are two main ways libertarians handle the ethics of living in a government-dominated society, as reflected in the debate between Gary North and Walter Block:



Either you think government is wrong and are you are therefore to avoid them, including refusing government money and government services where you have reasonable private alternatives, or, you think government money and services you receive will be better spent on you than on what government employees would otherwise spend it.
 
So how's that depolitization working with the current RUC? Totally not politicized at all. Nope. The RUC was also established with similar intent.

Uhhh, the RUC was founded by the AMA to keep physician reimbursement as high as possible. Not only is it rather secretive, it is loaded with specialists. A very poor comparison, sir.

NickNaylor said:
Regardless, it is given the task of a lion but has the power of a sloth.

So having the power to change reimbursement policy without Congressional approval is the power of a sloth? A strange outlook, sir.
 
Setting aside the extreme unconstitutionality of the IPAB,

Hmmm... I seem to recall a recent debate regarding the "extreme unconstitutionality" of another part of the health reform law. Hmmm....
 
Uhhh, the RUC was founded by the AMA to keep physician reimbursement as high as possible. Not only is it rather secretive, it is loaded with specialists. A very poor comparison, sir.

So having the power to change reimbursement policy without Congressional approval is the power of a sloth? A strange outlook, sir.

Uh... yeah I do, since obvious things - like increasing premiums or increasing cost sharing - are effectively off the table. I understand that Medicare primarily serves those on limited incomes, but to eliminate that option entirely with no possibility for discussing is asinine.

(sent from my phone)
 
I understand that Medicare primarily serves those on limited incomes,

No, Medicare serves virtually everyone over 65.

NickNaylor said:
but to eliminate that option entirely with no possibility for discussing is asinine.

Perhaps. We'll check back in around 2020.
 
Excuse me for ignoring the current train of thought and actually answering the original post.

If you are making a physicians salary... YOU WILL FIND A WAY.



It could be worse. You could be going to vet school, where the debt accrued is equivalent to med school, but median pay is less than 100K a year.

Or you could be going to law school. Or art history school. Or underwater basket weaving school. There are tons of schools where the salary made after graduation is not worth the debt racked up. Med school is not one of those.
 
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