I've been contacting several doctors since school started for a chance to shadow, all of it has been in vain so far. There are so many laws protecting patient/doctor confidentiality that none of them can let me actually shadow them. Anyone else running into this problem?
How are you all shadowing doctors?
- Thread starter vin5cent0
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try talking to HR. They should have forms for you to read and sign that acknowledge your understanding of patient privacy. Then you should be good to go.
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Try a private practice. Much easier than getting an attending to agree.
It is much easier if you are already some sort of healthcare provider. I work in EMS, so I am already registered with the state - ie, I have a current TB test, vaccinations, HIPAA paperwork, background check, etc. The administrator was able to
You can also try other channels to find doctors to shadow. There are websites that can help you find a doctor willing to go through with the hassle, unlike a Dr. at a busy hospital for which a student would just be a PITA. It is very difficult to find one in a large city, especially one with lots of students around. Be prepared to drive elsewhere to find one, and do lots of calling.
Keep trying! It is worth it!
You can also try other channels to find doctors to shadow. There are websites that can help you find a doctor willing to go through with the hassle, unlike a Dr. at a busy hospital for which a student would just be a PITA. It is very difficult to find one in a large city, especially one with lots of students around. Be prepared to drive elsewhere to find one, and do lots of calling.
Keep trying! It is worth it!
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really, like what?
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I did mine with a doctor I used to work with for 2 years. A classmate of mine did it with his childhood pediatrician. You don't have to have a personal connection, but it helps.
Yeah, you should check HR or sometimes hospitals have Volunteer Departments. As far as patient confidentiality is concerned, I had to endure a few cheesy videos and common sense lectures in an orientation they made us all sit through.
The hospital just needs to cover its ass some times.
(I'm not sure if all hospitals do this.)
Try finding a department that does clinical research at the hospital. The PI's tend to be doctors. If you can do research, you should more than likely be able to shadow the doctor who is involved in your study.
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Try to find residents. I have found that they are much more apt to allowing students to follow them around (probably because they were like you 5-10 years ago).
Like everyone else said, just contact the Volunteer Department and see what they have to say.
Like everyone else said, just contact the Volunteer Department and see what they have to say.
It's a tricky game that you absolutely MUST play. Clinical experience is one of the Major things looked at by adcoms, as it shows that you truly know what you are getting yourself into.
I managed to shadow two physicians (Urologist and cardiothoracic surgeon), both through personal connections. I attempted atleast 2-3 others, but unfrotunately they fizzled out in the paperwork and redtape. Be ready for this, and I suggest a shotgun approach. Contact lots and lots of people, and you should have better luck.
Knowing that I needed more, I volunteered in an ER through one of those volunteer programs that you need to pursue through HR and all that jazz. Keep in mind the hurdles you must encounter before even setting foot in the clinic take a long time. I would say for one of the volunteer routes, prepare atleast 3 months before the time period in which you aim to get started. As Jonathan mentioned, there is a lot of orientation stuff you have to go through before getting your feet wet. Private practice is definitely much easier to work with, but the hospital perspective is one you definitely need.
While on the subject, I would also suggest you think deeply about which type of doctors you shadow. If you plan to tell a story in your PS and app about what area of medicine you are pursuing, make sure your shadowing and clinical experiences match this story and show that you are ready for this area and you know what all it involves.
But yea, this clinical experience aspect is one of the more tricky. Especially if your undergrad university is a pre-med training ground where local hospitals and clinics are inundated with eager pre-meds trying to do the same stuff. But mediocrity or weakness in this area will lead to a rather painful application process for sure. Be persistent and stay focused.
Good Luck!
I managed to shadow two physicians (Urologist and cardiothoracic surgeon), both through personal connections. I attempted atleast 2-3 others, but unfrotunately they fizzled out in the paperwork and redtape. Be ready for this, and I suggest a shotgun approach. Contact lots and lots of people, and you should have better luck.
Knowing that I needed more, I volunteered in an ER through one of those volunteer programs that you need to pursue through HR and all that jazz. Keep in mind the hurdles you must encounter before even setting foot in the clinic take a long time. I would say for one of the volunteer routes, prepare atleast 3 months before the time period in which you aim to get started. As Jonathan mentioned, there is a lot of orientation stuff you have to go through before getting your feet wet. Private practice is definitely much easier to work with, but the hospital perspective is one you definitely need.
While on the subject, I would also suggest you think deeply about which type of doctors you shadow. If you plan to tell a story in your PS and app about what area of medicine you are pursuing, make sure your shadowing and clinical experiences match this story and show that you are ready for this area and you know what all it involves.
But yea, this clinical experience aspect is one of the more tricky. Especially if your undergrad university is a pre-med training ground where local hospitals and clinics are inundated with eager pre-meds trying to do the same stuff. But mediocrity or weakness in this area will lead to a rather painful application process for sure. Be persistent and stay focused.
Good Luck!
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Volunteering is another good way to get in contact with docs. I got a job as an ER scribe through volunteering at a local ER, which I think is the ultimate in terms of seeing what a doctor's job is like. I also plan on shadowing an orthopedic surgeon through a family contact.
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I would not recommend shadowing residents. Most medical schools do not accept this form of physician shadowing.
I do not see how or why that would be true. If anything, it gives you insight on what you will be doing after medical school. I have shadowed residents and have found it to be a great experience. I'm not even sure if someone must state on the AMCAS app whether or not some of the doctors they have shadowed have been residents
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Weird because a resident's schedule is probably the most educational for a naive student shadow.
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The claim that shadowing residents does not count it ridiculous; Are they not doctors? I have learned an extensive amount about medical school and the residency process that I probably would not have shadowing a physician that hasn't been there for 20-30 years. It is also much more laid back when shadowing a resident instead of a big-wig attending; it gives you more leniency in asking questions, and even helping out on some procedures (Put on my first cast the other day, for instance).
I would like someone like LizzyM, or another reputable source, to chime in on this issue and give further insight.
I would like someone like LizzyM, or another reputable source, to chime in on this issue and give further insight.
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I contacted parents of my friends who are physicians and spoke to them about it. They are usually VERY eager to help. One is even trying to get me a job working with him! Also, don't be afraid to ask any physicians you've had in your life. They know you and might be helpful. You will always run into problems with the hippa/privacy etc. but keep on keepin on.
saying that HIPAA prevents it, I believe is often a more polite way of saying they don't want to do it.
So long as you have been educated in HIPAA and each patient is asked if it is ok for you to enter the room, then HIPAA isn't violated. You can't violate HIPAA if the patient is asked and approves that health info be disclosed to you.
All physicians affiliated w/ a med school, including those in private practice, should be more knowledgable about the actual restrictions of HIPAA. Furthermore, their HIPAA waivers for patients are more likely to include observation for educational sake.
All that said, I am not a proponent of shadowing for the sake of shadowing. I view it as inappropriate gawking at patients and abuse of the dr's authority, b/c too many patients will feel uncomfy telling the dr. they don't want the student in there, even if they are asked. And a lot of drs don't ask. If you want to "shadow," I suggest getting a volunteer or paid position, perhaps in clinical research, that integrates you having a USEFUL role in the patient care with your exposure to the day-to-day doings of a physician.
So long as you have been educated in HIPAA and each patient is asked if it is ok for you to enter the room, then HIPAA isn't violated. You can't violate HIPAA if the patient is asked and approves that health info be disclosed to you.
All physicians affiliated w/ a med school, including those in private practice, should be more knowledgable about the actual restrictions of HIPAA. Furthermore, their HIPAA waivers for patients are more likely to include observation for educational sake.
All that said, I am not a proponent of shadowing for the sake of shadowing. I view it as inappropriate gawking at patients and abuse of the dr's authority, b/c too many patients will feel uncomfy telling the dr. they don't want the student in there, even if they are asked. And a lot of drs don't ask. If you want to "shadow," I suggest getting a volunteer or paid position, perhaps in clinical research, that integrates you having a USEFUL role in the patient care with your exposure to the day-to-day doings of a physician.
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I can't speak for "most medical schools" but I think that what you are saying is absurd. A resident is a physician and seeing their glamorous lives (contrasted with some of the popular TV shows) will give you a very good idea of what it is really like in post-grad training. That said, it is also a good idea to see what goes on in a physician's practice after training is complete.
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Where did you hear that? I haven't seen any med school specify that it has to be an attending you shadow.
OP, I got my clinical experience through volunteering at the hospital for more than two years. I got to know a few of the doctors very well and they had no problem with me tagging along with them to shadow.
If that doesn't work for you, you can try your family physician or perhaps your schools pre-med advisor can put you in contact with someone?
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thank god cause most of my shadowing is Fellows lol
do you realize a resident has his/her M.D., and is thus a physician? I don't believe you have applied to med school and actually knew anything about this...I would ask why you responded as such, and then let that source know how WRONG he/she is, indeed.
That said, the words of someone who's been a clinical professor for 40 yrs may hold more weight than someone who just finished med school. If the two were mutually exclusive, I would shadow the former so he/she can say..."In my x years of teaching at med school, this student is (something good),"...unless you aren't very good of course, then you might want the resident w/ less basis for comparison 😛🙄
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u dont see it being true, but i is IN FACt true. Try some med schools sites... I think even AAMC has some info on that.. where they specifically mention Residents, Dentist, DO's and so on, don't count towards Physician shadowing..
also, how can a resident be compared to a practicing physician... a resident many times has to do a nurse's work...
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No, they don't. I've been through the AAMC website extensively, having already applied. I've also been to dozens of medical school websites. I've never seen nor heard any such thing about residents. If you have, please provide us with a link as to where. As for DOs, I shadowed DOs and none of the MD schools I applied to had a problem with that. Again, I've never seen nor heard such a thing. Please don't pass along false information.
What? I'm sorry, but you're so misinformed about this. Resident physicians are fully licensed doctors.
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I had my mom ask her rheumatologist if I could shadow him cause she said he was a nice guy. Try going through family, friends etc.
Please don't listen to vickpick. Vickpick spouts a lot of incorrect info b/c he/she hasn't applied to med school yet (as apparent from other posts), AND thinks residents don't yet have an M.D.:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8182595#post8182595
As someone who already applied to M.D. and D.O. programs...
1) The only med school that I know of that requires shadowing is Utah--and even then, if you are competent in 5 out of 6 fields, you *might* be able to get away without doing it. Other schools just look at shadowing as any other EC--it's good to have EC's that reflect your knowledge about and commitment to medicine, but it isn't A REQUIREMENT.
2) Half of the D.O. schools are the institutions that mandate shadowing a dr. to be accepted, and they mandate a D.O., obviously. The other half (my application proves) accept M.D. shadowing.
3) There were one or two M.D. schools that requested/strongly suggested a professional LOR and/or simply had a statement that any "optional" professional LOR's would not be beneficial if from: a family member, your own treating physician who you haven't shadowed, a dentist, a physicians assistant, medical student, or a nurse...no mention of D.O. and no mention of residents or fellows. Basically they don't want the equivalent of PERSONAL REFERENCES. A resident is in a position to evaluate you outside the scope of offering a personal reference.
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Vickpick,
Although this is a public forum, it may be helpful to people if you admit you are guessing when you give info unless you wish to be considered a troll or are hoping to embarrass yourself. You are supposedly entering into a career that is intended to help people, but you chronically give incorrect (and thus detrimental if someone listens to you) advice, like...
--residents aren't M.D.'s
--someone with a 3.48 doesn't have a chance at med school (I had a 3.45)
--that a 2.7 is a C average, rather than a B-/B
--and most recently that requirements are posted by AMCAS when they very clearly aren't
WTF?
Although this is a public forum, it may be helpful to people if you admit you are guessing when you give info unless you wish to be considered a troll or are hoping to embarrass yourself. You are supposedly entering into a career that is intended to help people, but you chronically give incorrect (and thus detrimental if someone listens to you) advice, like...
--residents aren't M.D.'s
--someone with a 3.48 doesn't have a chance at med school (I had a 3.45)
--that a 2.7 is a C average, rather than a B-/B
--and most recently that requirements are posted by AMCAS when they very clearly aren't
WTF?
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I agree with everything you say, but I have a genuine question because I've seen several people on these forums do it. Why did you exclude DO schools when you talked about "med schools" in your #1? Aren't DO schools considered med schools?
Again, that's not to take away from anything you said or start a thing. I'm just genuinely curious because a lot of people do that and I was under the impression med schools doesn't mean just MD.
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This thread came in a nick of time.. I'm currently searching for a DO to shadow.
My list started out with just 3 docs, after hearing that some of you had to contact alot of people to get a few responses--I'll widen my net so that I can start shadowing faster.
My list started out with just 3 docs, after hearing that some of you had to contact alot of people to get a few responses--I'll widen my net so that I can start shadowing faster.
Jeez. If I gave two hoots about the difference I wouldn't have applied to both multiple years in a row. AND if you weren't just being ridiculous, you would look through my other posts and realize I REGULARLY refer to D.O. schools as "med school."
I originally answered the question, only with reference to M.D. programs b/c we're on the allopathic forum, so I just wrote MED SCHOOL. I THEN added the #2 and #3 info. Notice that in #3 I specify M.D. schools?
If you are going to a D.O. program, jumping on a non-issue like this only makes you look insecure. If you appear insecure, others will wonder why and buy into it.
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Every time I have shadowed faculty, they left me with residents and med students. The residents and students, in my experience, are friendlier and more willing to explain things to observers.
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the D.O. mentor program. This is a program suggested to me a while ago that helps find physicians to shadow.
http://www.do-online.org/iLearn/index.cfm?pageid=ment_exchange&page=Exchange
http://www.do-online.org/iLearn/index.cfm?pageid=ment_exchange&page=Exchange
