How bad is 3rd year?

[carlitagonzalez]

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as a nontrad premed who is considering attending medschool, i have a few questions about the experience:

-approx how many hrs/week are you working during MS3? 60-70? more?

-i've read a lot of posts on this website about how everyone regrets going to medschool..why is this? does this mostly apply to those who went into family med, gen surg, or IM?

-i'm not particularly interested in patient contact (in fact, i pretty much couldn't care less), but i'm very interested in the science of medicine itself and the intellect required in certain specialties (pathology, neurology, radiology (if my grades are good enough!)) are these reasons sufficient to enter med school?

thank you for any advice!! 🙂

 

[MedicineNutt]

i have the same concerns...how are pathology, radiology hard to get into though?

 

[eklope2000]

i have the same concerns...how are pathology, radiology hard to get into though?

S/he was referring only to radiology (note the nested parentheses) which is competitive.

Anyway, in regard to not being interested in patient contact, there's room for all types of people in medicine. There aren't that many students interested in neurology or pathology, so someone interested in these fields would be a welcomed addition to the profession.

 

[bigfrank]

-i'm not particularly interested in patient contact (in fact, i pretty much couldn't care less), but i'm very interested in the science of medicine itself and the intellect required in certain specialties (pathology, neurology, radiology (if my grades are good enough!)) are these reasons sufficient to enter med school?

1. I wouldn't include this in your application to medical school. If you don't like patients before medical school, I can assure you that the third year will only strengthen this feeling, leaving you jaded.
2. Most students average 60-70 hours a week during the third year. Your psychiatry rotation will be less, your surgery/medicine rotations will be more. It concerns me that you're worried about work hours already though.
3. Good luck.

 

[i61164]

i have the same concerns...how are pathology, radiology hard to get into though?

Rads is tough to get into because there's a lot of people that want it. Popular = stiff competition for limited spots. Path should not be a problem to get into. It's really not that competitive. Competitiveness of a specialty does not really correlate with difficulty. It is much more based on lifestyle and salary. Neurology isn't really too competitive either.

I think med school is painful no matter what you like. There will always be parts of it that you don't like.

I think you will work 60+ hours 3rd year. Of couse it depends on the rotation. In my opinion, it's worth it if you end up with a job that doesn't bore you. Everybody that hates med school deep down either doesn't like any job you can get with an MD, or wants to get well paid for very little work.

I complain about med school, but I still believe that it will be worth it in the end. I too am a nontraditional.

 

[carlitagonzalez]

1. I wouldn't include this in your application to medical school. If you don't like patients before medical school, I can assure you that the third year will only strengthen this feeling, leaving you jaded.
2. Most students average 60-70 hours a week during the third year. Your psychiatry rotation will be less, your surgery/medicine rotations will be more. It concerns me that you're worried about work hours already though.
3. Good luck.

thank you for your advice. i'm definitely not going to discuss that in interviews or anything. i don't think i'll be jaded, because i already know that patient contact will be utter hell.

the hours sound very reasonable, especially compared to my current job. i was just trying to make sure it wasn't 90-100 hours/week the whole way through.

 

[deuist]

Do we get weekends off? Or will we be rounding every day?

 

[carlitagonzalez]

Rads is tough to get into because there's a lot of people that want it. Popular = stiff competition for limited spots. Path should not be a problem to get into. It's really not that competitive. Competitiveness of a specialty does not really correlate with difficulty. It is much more based on lifestyle and salary. Neurology isn't really too competitive either.

I think med school is painful no matter what you like. There will always be parts of it that you don't like.

I think you will work 60+ hours 3rd year. Of couse it depends on the rotation. In my opinion, it's worth it if you end up with a job that doesn't bore you. Everybody that hates med school deep down either doesn't like any job you can get with an MD, or wants to get well paid for very little work.

I complain about med school, but I still believe that it will be worth it in the end. I too am a nontraditional.

thanks for your advice. i'm currently a consultant for bain, so i am familiar with long hours. i just wanted to make sure the hours in MS3 won't be like the hours i'm working now, because i intend to start a family at some point in school. it's also nice knowing that radiology, pathology, and neurology all have easier residencies than a lot of the others.

i think it will be worth it too. probably all the people complaining are those who don't know just how much business can suck. at least once i get through residency, i know i'll be working a lot less than i would have been in business and doing work that is infinitely more interesting and rewarding.

 

[closertofine]

thank you for your advice. i'm definitely not going to discuss that in interviews or anything. i don't think i'll be jaded, because i already know that patient contact will be utter hell.

Forgive me if this is out of line, but it seems very counterintuitive for someone to want to become a doctor knowing that they describe seeing patients as "utter hell"... 😕

 

[RonaldColeman]

I think 3rd year is more of a reality shock than anything. You learn, among other things, that:

1. Medicine can actually get quite boring. Yeah, you learn about all of these cool diseases the first 2 years...but you never see them in real life.
2. Patients bring a lot of disease on themselves, yet blame you for everything.
3. Being on call is not fun.
4. Nurses don't throw themselves at you just because you are going to be a doctor. In fact, if you aren't getting any now, you won't get it when you are a doctor either.

The list goes on and on.

 

[carlitagonzalez]

Forgive me if this is out of line, but it seems very counterintuitive for someone to want to become a doctor knowing that they describe seeing patients as "utter hell"... 😕

that may have been a slight exaggeration. but given some of the comments on this site coming from current students, it's probably not all that far from the truth.

 

[carlitagonzalez]

I think 3rd year is more of a reality shock than anything. You learn, among other things, that:

1. Medicine can actually get quite boring. Yeah, you learn about all of these cool diseases the first 2 years...but you never see them in real life.
2. Patients bring a lot of disease on themselves, yet blame you for everything.
3. Being on call is not fun.
4. Nurses don't throw themselves at you just because you are going to be a doctor. In fact, if you aren't getting any now, you won't get it when you are a doctor either.

The list goes on and on.

1. this is undoubtedly true, but i'd expect less so for radiologists and certainly less so for pathologists
2. this is 100% true and why i don't want much patient contact
3. that's why i'm going to choose a specialty without much call
4. this isn't an issue for me

 

[8744]

as a nontrad premed who is considering attending medschool, i have a few questions about the experience:

-approx how many hrs/week are you working during MS3? 60-70? more?

-i've read a lot of posts on this website about how everyone regrets going to medschool..why is this? does this mostly apply to those who went into family med, gen surg, or IM?

-i'm not particularly interested in patient contact (in fact, i pretty much couldn't care less), but i'm very interested in the science of medicine itself and the intellect required in certain specialties (pathology, neurology, radiology (if my grades are good enough!)) are these reasons sufficient to enter med school?

thank you for any advice!! 🙂

Hey. I'm the ultimate non-traditional medical school graduate. Visit my humble blog for some insight into medical school and residency.

If your grades are good you should have no trouble matching into pathology or radiology but FYI you will have patient contact in these specialties, just not as much as in things like FP.

 

[carlitagonzalez]

Hey. I'm the ultimate non-traditional medical school graduate. Visit my humble blog for some insight into medical school and residency.

If your grades are good you should have no trouble matching into pathology or radiology but FYI you will have patient contact in these specialties, just not as much as in things like FP.

thanks panda i'll check it out. what did you do before med school?

 

[lattimer13]

I think 3rd year is more of a reality shock than anything. You learn, among other things, that:

1. Medicine can actually get quite boring. Yeah, you learn about all of these cool diseases the first 2 years...but you never see them in real life.
2. Patients bring a lot of disease on themselves, yet blame you for everything.
3. Being on call is not fun.
4. Nurses don't throw themselves at you just because you are going to be a doctor. In fact, if you aren't getting any now, you won't get it when you are a doctor either.

The list goes on and on.

WOW! 😱

it's like you were reading my mind.

 

[rockitman]

Just out of curiosity, why are you leaving Bain. I'm just surprised considering its one of the most prestigous jobs in the business world and often leads to very high paying jobs. But obviously if you don't like business/consulting none of that really matters.

 

[bigfrank]

Forgive me if this is out of line, but it seems very counterintuitive for someone to want to become a doctor knowing that they describe seeing patients as "utter hell"... 😕

My point exactly. Something's not making sense here.

 

[njbmd]

as a nontrad premed who is considering attending medschool, i have a few questions about the experience:

-approx how many hrs/week are you working during MS3? 60-70? more?

-i've read a lot of posts on this website about how everyone regrets going to medschool..why is this? does this mostly apply to those who went into family med, gen surg, or IM?

-i'm not particularly interested in patient contact (in fact, i pretty much couldn't care less), but i'm very interested in the science of medicine itself and the intellect required in certain specialties (pathology, neurology, radiology (if my grades are good enough!)) are these reasons sufficient to enter med school?

thank you for any advice!! 🙂

Hi there,
I was a non-traditional medical student and I am definitely a non-traditional General Surgery resident. The hours that you work (it's not actually work, it is learning) are very rotation-specific. I spent more hours in the hospital on rotations like General Surgery and OB-Gyn (you have to scrub cases and cover L & D) but less hours on Psychiatry and Family Practice. Third year is not bad at all because you are learning things and doing things that you will do for the rest of your medical career.

If you are counting hours now, you are going to be pretty miserable. Medicine is not 9-5 even rads or derm and will never be. You may serve yourself better by getting a Ph.D or going into something other than medicine especially if you do not enjoy contact with patients. Even if you end up in something like radiology that has less pateint contact, you still end up performing things like barium enemas etc that may have to be done in the middle of the night and you still have to get through medical school and residency.

If I had it to do over again my answer would be H--L YES! to medical school and residency. I love what I do, even with the hours. The difficult part of medicine is that you cannot do it half-way and coast. Coasting will get you in trouble fast and you can watch your career go down the drain.

njbmd 🙂

 

[i61164]

I think Radiology is not only difficult to get into, but a difficult residency with really tough board exams. As for being interesting, it depends on what you like. Personally, I don't think I would like to look at images all day. As for pathology, lot's of microscope work and reading lots of images. Again, not that appealing to me. Don't assume these specialties will keep you interested for 20, 30, or 40 years. After awhile, anything can get boring. It's up to you to find ways to make your career more interesting and enjoyable. For starters, don't choose a specialty based on salary or lifestyle. Being a nontrad, I don't think you would, but lots of people do. Ever wonder why derm is so competitive? Are there really so many people with a real passion for derm? I doubt it.

 

[Brainsucker]

Keep in mind when perusing these forums that this is where frustrated med students go to vent or know-it-alls go to pontificate. The opinions expressed here really aren't fully representative of how med students feel about med school.

On the other hand, if you're really not interested in working with people, there are other walks of life that don't have as much administrative junk, lawsuits, and other painful things along with them.

 

[cromagnon]

as a nontrad premed who is considering attending medschool, i have a few questions about the experience:

-approx how many hrs/week are you working during MS3? 60-70? more?

-i've read a lot of posts on this website about how everyone regrets going to medschool..why is this? does this mostly apply to those who went into family med, gen surg, or IM?

-i'm not particularly interested in patient contact (in fact, i pretty much couldn't care less), but i'm very interested in the science of medicine itself and the intellect required in certain specialties (pathology, neurology, radiology (if my grades are good enough!)) are these reasons sufficient to enter med school?

thank you for any advice!! 🙂

hi,

not sure if carlita is your real name...but if it is let me offer you a friendly piece of advice and suggest that you not post on here or any other medical forum with your real name. you may never post anything that could come back to haunt you but if you dont use your real name you never have to worry about it.

 

[Sureshot83]

I think Radiology is not only difficult to get into, but a difficult residency with really tough board exams. As for being interesting, it depends on what you like. Personally, I don't think I would like to look at images all day. As for pathology, lot's of microscope work and reading lots of images. Again, not that appealing to me. Don't assume these specialties will keep you interested for 20, 30, or 40 years. After awhile, anything can get boring. It's up to you to find ways to make your career more interesting and enjoyable. For starters, don't choose a specialty based on salary or lifestyle. Being a nontrad, I don't think you would, but lots of people do. Ever wonder why derm is so competitive? Are there really so many people with a real passion for derm? I doubt it.

Besides the reason you suggest, which is undoubtedly at least a contributing factor, isn't it also true that there are only about 300 derm residency positions in the country?

 

[Rafa]

Besides the reason you suggest, which is undoubtedly at least a contributing factor, isn't it also true that there are only about 300 derm residency positions in the country?

Oddly enough, there are still fewer than 300 MS4's actually interested in dermatology in the US annually.

 

[t33sg1rl]

To the OP,
If you decide doctoring isn't for you but you still want the medicine, I think there's a medicine PhD program in Wisconsin where you spend your first two years alongside the medical students, then they go do rotations, and you go do your thesis/PhD work. That program will give you the exact same knowledge base, and added bonus-you don't have to take Step 1!

 

[Ypo.]

thank you for your advice. i'm definitely not going to discuss that in interviews or anything. i don't think i'll be jaded, because i already know that patient contact will be utter hell.

the hours sound very reasonable, especially compared to my current job. i was just trying to make sure it wasn't 90-100 hours/week the whole way through.

I don't understand what the point of going to medical school is if you know you don't like patient contact. Why not just get a PhD and save yourself the extra work? What you learn in medical school is a huge amount of general information-the only good it will do you is if you plan on using it in the practice of medicine, which, if you hate seeing patients, won't be of much use to you.

If you decide to go for a dual MD/PhD, you should just be honest in your interviews that you are interested in the research side of medicine-if you truly are interested in research and not just a big fat paycheck without doing work or seeing patients.

But honestly, I really have to question why anyone would want to go into medicine (of all things) if they 'couldn't care less' about patient contact?? Most PhD/MDs have at least some patient contact. Medicine is about the patient. Usually that is what motivates people to study medicine.

Good luck, but from what you've said so far, I have to say that I hope someone else will get your spot in medical school.

 

[Sureshot83]

Oddly enough, there are still fewer than 300 MS4's actually interested in dermatology in the US annually.

Is this seriously true? How can this be possible when it's supposed to be so hard to match into derm? When supply > demand, that's a shortage! (I was econ in college, haha.)

 

[deuist]

Oddly enough, there are still fewer than 300 MS4's actually interested in dermatology in the US annually.

What? Look at the Careers in Medicine website. 372 seniors applied for 28 PGY-1 positions. 373 Americans then applied for 288 PGY-2 spots.

 

[MN81]

Keep in mind when perusing these forums that this is where frustrated med students go to vent or know-it-alls go to pontificate. The opinions expressed here really aren't fully representative of how med students feel about med school. QUOTE]
Amen

 

[Rafa]

LOL - you guys, I was being faceitious. As in, despite the low, low number of spots, there is still an even *smaller* number of students honestly interested in dermatology as a career, and not simply as a cash cow.