How Bad is it to end college with low grades?

[studmuffin]

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Ok so I had a 3.945 GPA up until the past two semesters. I got a 2.9 last spring semester and a 3.2 this past fall semster. I have one more semester but I only need 3 more credits to graduate. My current GPA is a 3.70. Will this be a red flag on my application, and what can I do to remedie this situation? I can't just take more classes because I have been working to support myself after my federal loan eligibility expired.

As a side note, I took the MCAT the summer between these two bad semesters and got a 11 BS 10 VR 10 PS. I have volunteering experience and other good stuff like research experience, etc, so I think my app is competitive but I'm worried about the two low semester GPA's. Thanks for your advice.

 

[sinombre]

The GPA drop is seriously going to hurt your chances. Can you do another year of undergrad/post-bac work? Your GPA is obviously fine, but that steep downward trend looks really bad.

So, if you can stay an extra semester (two more than you've currently completed) and get straight A's, it would probably help you immensely.

 

[TheMasterChief]

The GPA drop is seriously going to hurt your chances. Can you do another year of undergrad/post-bac work? Your GPA is obviously fine, but that steep downward trend looks really bad.

So, if you can stay an extra semester (two more than you've currently completed) and get straight A's, it would probably help you immensely.

^ This. Admissions committees are going to wonder why there is such a severe downward trend in your academic performance despite your GPA still being fine. Even if you take more classes after graduation it is likely that you'll have to explain why your grades declined the way they did.

Even though you only need 3 more credits maybe you should take a few more classes to bring the trend back up? (assuming you do well in them)

 

[typicalindian]

The GPA drop is seriously going to hurt your chances. Can you do another year of undergrad/post-bac work? Your GPA is obviously fine, but that steep downward trend looks really bad.

So, if you can stay an extra semester (two more than you've currently completed) and get straight A's, it would probably help you immensely.

Staying an extra semester or two is a bit extreme. Obviously it's a red flag OP, but just do well this semester and apply.

 

[sinombre]

Staying an extra semester or two is a bit extreme. Obviously it's a red flag OP, but just do well this semester and apply.

I guess whether one or two additional 4.0 semesters is sufficient to compensate for a downward trend will vary between schools, and probably between individual adcom members. Assuming everything else in the OPs app is okay, he/she might be okay with one. It's probably worthwhile to get actual adcom input, though. I tend to subscribe to the "better safe than sorry" philosophy.

It's also worth noting that the OP's downward trend currently spans two semesters, so bouncing back in the eyes of the adcom might require an equal amount of time.

 

[goodkarma]

Staying an extra semester or two is a bit extreme. Obviously it's a red flag OP, but just do well this semester and apply.

I agree with this. What classes caused the drop? Were they science-related? I'd say if you got lower than a C in a pre-req, retake it. Otherwise, make sure the rest of your app is up to par and apply broadly based on your stats. You'll get in.

EDIT: Also, did the downward trend occur due to you starting to work? or is there a reason for it? Address it in your secondaries.

 

[Titus Times]

It's a numbers game usually and a 3.7 with a 31 mcat is considered just fine for most applicants(Am I wrong?). So No I would'nt spend extra semsters on more classes you've just got to explain your downward trend for those two semesters and ace these last three. No biggie. as long as your not hung up over top 20's and that nonsensical prestige jazz you'll be a doctor don't prolong an already long enough journey.

 

[sinombre]

It's a numbers game usually and a 3.7 with a 31 mcat is considered just fine for most applicants(Am I wrong?). So No I would'nt spend extra semsters on more classes you've just got to explain your downward trend for those two semesters and ace these last three. No biggie. as long as your not hung up over top 20's and that nonsensical prestige jazz you'll be a doctor don't prolong an already long enough journey.

It is a numbers game, and one that includes a freshman, sophomore, junior, and senior GPA grid on the AMCAS application. Schools are going to see a senior GPA of around a 3.1. That is going to significantly affect the OP's application outcomes. By the way, I'm speaking from experience (unfortunately).

 

[Titus Times]

It is a numbers game, and one that includes a freshman, sophomore, junior, and senior GPA grid on the AMCAS application. Schools are going to see a senior GPA of around a 3.1. That is going to significantly affect the OP's application outcomes. By the way, I'm speaking from experience (unfortunately).

Point taken.

Im confused as to why you guys didn't apply after your junior year, in that case your senior classes are not even in the equation typically until after a decision is made on acceptance.

 

[sinombre]

Point taken.

Im confused as to why you guys didn't apply after your junior year, in that case your senior classes are not even in the equation typically until after a decision is made on acceptance.

I'm somewhat of a non-trad applicant, and had to take some extra time to finish pre-reqs and pad my application with ECs. The average age for matriculants at a lot of schools is around 24-25, although the medians seem to be a bit lower. The point is that a large chunk of applicants apply after their junior year of undergrad for a multitude of reasons.

 

[studmuffin]

The classes that caused the low GPA were all non science. Even after the last two semesters, my science GPA remains a 3.9

 

[Poetic Silence]

Yeah, that's pretty bad. You're essentially showing med schools that you are tired and burned out. Not exactly the image you'd want to present yourself as.

 

[studmuffin]

thanks for the helpful responses fellow sdners

 

[yaytiffanyrae]

There are a lot more reasons your GPA may drop outside of being tired or burnt out. If you can explain that in a reasonable way on your applications and in interviews (I assume it could be touched on then), I think that you can still present yourself in a relatively strong light. Especially with an overall 3.7 and science 3.9. I'm sure some people will disagree with me, but everyone has a different journey.

Something that also might be of interest to you then is Special Master's Programs or Post-Bacc programs! However, those are expensive and add a few years to the whole process.

 

[PreMedOrDead]

I think people are investing too much in trends. I'm pretty sure OP will be fine. He may have to explain the incidental descent in his GPA at the interview of course, but it won't kill his app as it's still in a [very] competitive range.

 

[sinombre]

I think people are investing too much in trends. I'm pretty sure OP will be fine. He may have to explain the incidental descent in his GPA at the interview of course, but it won't kill his app as it's still in a [very] competitive range.

Maybe, PMOD (if that is your real name), but I'm sitting on three interviews out of 20 schools with the same MCAT, GPA, and a less severe downward trend (thoroughly explained in my application). Everything else on my app is solid, which leads me to believe that my unfortunately low senior GPA has hurt me. And potentially the fact that I'm a California resident.

I do have an acceptance though, so take that as you will.

 

[music2doc]

Ok so I had a 3.945 GPA up until the past two semesters. I got a 2.9 last spring semester and a 3.2 this past fall semster. I have one more semester but I only need 3 more credits to graduate. My current GPA is a 3.70. Will this be a red flag on my application, and what can I do to remedie this situation? I can't just take more classes because I have been working to support myself after my federal loan eligibility expired.

As a side note, I took the MCAT the summer between these two bad semesters and got a 11 BS 10 VR 10 PS. I have volunteering experience and other good stuff like research experience, etc, so I think my app is competitive but I'm worried about the two low semester GPA's. Thanks for your advice.

Looks bad to finish that way. At best, you might make it to the interview stage and have to explain yourself. At worst, you simply won't get interviews. My suggestion is to go and do a post-bacc year and put some work experience b/w you and your senior year.

 

[MedPR]

Ok so I had a 3.945 GPA up until the past two semesters. I got a 2.9 last spring semester and a 3.2 this past fall semster. I have one more semester but I only need 3 more credits to graduate. My current GPA is a 3.70. Will this be a red flag on my application, and what can I do to remedie this situation? I can't just take more classes because I have been working to support myself after my federal loan eligibility expired.

As a side note, I took the MCAT the summer between these two bad semesters and got a 11 BS 10 VR 10 PS. I have volunteering experience and other good stuff like research experience, etc, so I think my app is competitive but I'm worried about the two low semester GPA's. Thanks for your advice.

Pretty bad.

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[music2doc]

I think people are investing too much in trends. I'm pretty sure OP will be fine. He may have to explain the incidental descent in his GPA at the interview of course, but it won't kill his app as it's still in a [very] competitive range.

Honestly, this is the sort of downward trend that actually gets people's acceptance rescinded. A sudden drop from a 3.9 to a 2.9 (literally an entire grade drop across the entire course load) is the sort of thing that shows up on the Dean's radar for further review. So sure, a trend is just a trend, but a trend this strong would make me squirm at the thought of you going to medical school as it makes me think you're burned out and would never last through our M1 curriculum, much less the steadily increasing difficulty of M2 and M3.

 

[IlDestriero]

Better come up with a remotely reasonable excuse. If you're burning out and or can't handle some electives, they're going to have legitimate doubt about your ability to grind out 7-10 years of non stop medical training.
What to do? Not much, the damage is done. Hope for the best and write damned good essays or they're going to pass you over without a second thought.

 

[MedPR]

Better come up with a remotely reasonable excuse. If you're burning out and or can't handle some electives, they're going to have legitimate doubt about your ability to grind out 7-10 years of non stop medical training.
What to do? Not much, the damage is done. Hope for the best and write damned good essays or they're going to pass you over without a second thought.

His first 7 semesters show he is able.. There's no doubting that. The 2.9 shows laziness/commitment issues, not ability issues.

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[music2doc]

His first 7 semesters show he is able.. There's no doubting that. The 2.9 shows laziness/commitment issues, not ability issues.

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No, he had a 3.1 followed by a 2.9. Regardless, I think you're missing the issue. Medical school success = Determination + Endurance + Ability. Any of those 3 components being weak or absent pretty much spells disaster.

If OP is already experiencing senioritis, how can s/he expect to suddenly do better when the course load literally triples during medical school? We're not talking about a slight increase in difficulty. We are talking about covering material at a much, much faster pace with much denser material than you or the OP is used to. If the OP was unable to keep his/her motivation up enough to maintain a consistent 3.6+ semester GPA when a good student could pull a solid A with 5-10 hrs of studying per week, there is little reason to believe s/he will manage to consistently meet expectations in med school when the requirements become far more intense and students regularly spend 5-10 hrs studying per day.

 

[MedPR]

No, he had a 3.1 followed by a 2.9. Regardless, I think you're missing the issue. Medical school success = Determination + Endurance + Ability. Any of those 3 components being weak or absent pretty much spells disaster.

If OP is already experiencing senioritis, how can s/he expect to suddenly do better when the course load literally triples during medical school? We're not talking about a slight increase in difficulty. We are talking about covering material at a much, much faster pace with much denser material than you or the OP is used to. If the OP was unable to keep his/her motivation up enough to maintain a consistent 3.6+ semester GPA when a good student could pull a solid A with 5-10 hrs of studying per week, there is little reason to believe s/he will manage to consistently meet expectations in med school when the requirements become far more intense and students regularly spend 5-10 hrs studying per day.

I only said they have the ability. I then said their commitment (determination and endurance could've been substituted) was in question.

Senioritis by definition won't continue into M1 and M2, so idk where you're trying to go with that one.

All I was disputing was that a 3.1/2.9 doesn't show someone can't handle (isn't able) med school if the semesters leading up to that were solid. I didn't say anything about the guy having the drive to do it.

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[music2doc]

I only said they have the ability. I then said their commitment (determination and endurance could've been substituted) was in question.

Senioritis by definition won't continue into M1 and M2, so idk where you're trying to go with that one.

All I was disputing was that a 3.1/2.9 doesn't show someone can't handle (isn't able) med school if the semesters leading up to that were solid. I didn't say anything about the guy having the drive to do it.

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Agree to disagree. To me, this is like saying that someone who ran the first 8 of a 10k on flat land in record time but got tired and took 2 hours to finish the last 2k should qualify for a marathon up a mountain (such as the Pikes Peak Marathon or the Inca Trail -- both up 14ers). I mean, sure, the guy could have held a record if he'd had the endurance to finish strong, but instead he got tired and lacked the endurance needed for that type of race. To me, that is a part of what defines "ability."

 

[MedPR]

Agree to disagree. To me, this is like saying that someone who ran the first 8 of a 10k on flat land in record time but got tired and took 2 hours to finish the last 2k should qualify for a marathon up a mountain (such as the Pikes Peak Marathon or the Inca Trail -- both up 14ers). I mean, sure, the guy could have held a record if he'd had the endurance to finish strong, but instead he got tired and lacked the endurance needed for that type of race. To me, that is a part of what defines "ability."

I think he is able if he tries. Not trying and failing doesn't mean he wasn't able. It means he didn't succeed.

If a female is anatomically and physiologically capable of carrying and birthing a child, but decides she doesn't want to, does that mean she isn't able? Seems like you're saying yes. I'm saying no.

 

[pre med 2014]

Considering people get into med school with 3.1 GPAs total. (rare underdogs) I think you should be fine. They were not science classes which further makes me think it will not be too damaging. Maybe ask an adcomm about it before applying about the implications of such a trend

 

[Peter Benkman]

Considering people get into med school with 3.1 GPAs total. (rare underdogs) I think you should be fine. They were not science classes which further makes me think it will not be too damaging. Maybe ask an adcomm about it before applying about the implications of such a trend

Yes, I agree with the above post. Last summer, I had the chance to meet the Dean of Admissions of a top 20 medical school and I showed him my transcript ( I am premed). It took him 12 seconds to read the whole transcript, and to my surprise, he didn't even looked at my gen. eds. or major classes, he was just interested to see how I did on the pre reqs that med schools want and on the total cummulative GPA.
I was really amazed how these Deans read transcripts so fast and are able to tell what is going on! It makes sense though, if they receive thousands of applications, they don't really have the time to stare at the transcripts for too long.

 

[sinombre]

Yes, I agree with the above post. Last summer, I had the chance to meet the Dean of Admissions of a top 20 medical school and I showed him my transcript ( I am premed). It took him 12 seconds to read the whole transcript, and to my surprise, he didn't even looked at my gen. eds. or major classes, he was just interested to see how I did on the pre reqs that med schools want and on the total cummulative GPA.
I was really amazed how these Deans read transcripts so fast and are able to tell what is going on! It makes sense though, if they receive thousands of applications, they don't really have the time to stare at the transcripts for too long.

Again, there is a giant freshman, sophomore, junior, and senior GPA grid on the AMCAS application. They look at cumulative GPAs as well as the GPA for each year. Having a GPA that low for an entire year is an obvious red flag, regardless of how you spin it.

It's interesting that there seems to be a pre-med consensus that the OP is in decent shape, and a medical student/attending consensus that this is an actual problem. Just sayin'.

 

[ToldYouSo]

A 3.7/31 is still competitive. Come up with a good reason for the sudden gpa drop, take a full credit load for your upcoming semester, and ace it. I really don't think you need to stay for any extra semesters and I believe that adcoms would be forgiving of your situation provided you kill your last semester and have a good reason because you were able to maintain a 3.9 for so long.

 

[ToldYouSo]

Again, there is a giant freshman, sophomore, junior, and senior GPA grid on the AMCAS application. They look at cumulative GPAs as well as the GPA for each year. Having a GPA that low for an entire year is an obvious red flag, regardless of how you spin it.

It's interesting that there seems to be a pre-med consensus that the OP is in decent shape, and a medical student/attending consensus that this is an actual problem. Just sayin'.

MedPR has already been accepted

 

[goodkarma]

MedPR has already been accepted

So am I, but maybe sinombre means matriculated? I do have to say take my opinion with a grain of salt. My experiences with MD/PhD adcoms could be different then with MD adcoms.

 

[sinombre]

So am I, but maybe sinombre means matriculated? I do have to say take my opinion with a grain of salt. My experiences with MD/PhD adcoms could be different then with MD adcoms.

Yeah, I meant matriculated. Regardless, the farther the OP bounces back from such a steep downward trend the better his/her application outcomes will be. Having an acceptance is great, but having more options is probably better.

 

[IlDestriero]

It's interesting that there seems to be a pre-med consensus that the OP is in decent shape, and a medical student/attending consensus that this is an actual problem. Just sayin'.

Pre meds are full of hope.
😀
It looks very bad, you can't spin 2 semesters of grades incompatible with medical school easily at the end of the line. First year, sure. Perhaps it's not terminal, but things just got unnecessarily harder for the OP. He may wonder how things could have gone differently if he kept his 3.9.
Killing it in the last semester will go a long way to shoring up his application.

 

[music2doc]

Again, there is a giant freshman, sophomore, junior, and senior GPA grid on the AMCAS application. They look at cumulative GPAs as well as the GPA for each year. Having a GPA that low for an entire year is an obvious red flag, regardless of how you spin it.

It's interesting that there seems to be a pre-med consensus that the OP is in decent shape, and a medical student/attending consensus that this is an actual problem. Just sayin'.

I was noticing the same, lol, but I didn't want to be the d-bag med student to say it. 😉
Regardless, I don't necessarily think all hope is lost. I simply agree with Dr. IlDestriero that the OP has just made this process much tougher and probably needs to take an add'l yr of coursework to make this no longer his/her final year before applying.

So am I, but maybe sinombre means matriculated? I do have to say take my opinion with a grain of salt. My experiences with MD/PhD adcoms could be different then with MD adcoms.

MD/PhD adcoms have a different set of criteria, although generally they are even MORE stats-heavy than MD programs. That said, the real issue here is one of perspective. The pre-meds who have been accepted are in a pretty good place to give some good application advice where they were accepted and even some general stuff. They know what the process is like and that's great. I was there recently. I put together a big resource portfolio for my pre-meds at my UG while I was waiting for med school to start. Looking back, I agree with the vast majority of what I said. However, what I lacked then was perspective. I knew what AdComs seemed to want, but not at all why they wanted it. A few months into medical school, your perspective on what it takes will begin to change. You will quickly realize that the fact that you were #1 in both of your majors and scored above your medical school's MCAT and GPA averages and have been published and...whatever is pretty much meaningless. You were selected to attempt this rat race because you met the minimum criteria to be deemed likely to succeed (and maybe a little more) but so did everyone else and the faculty are well aware of that. Things move fast and you must learn things in a much more comprehensive manner than in UG, It requires a level of determination that the OP's behavior simply does not reveal s/he has. That alone is enough to make an Admissions person think twice before offering an interview, much less an acceptance offer.

Pre meds are full of hope.
😀
It looks very bad, you can't spin 2 semesters of grades incompatible with medical school easily at the end of the line. First year, sure. Perhaps it's not terminal, but things just got unnecessarily harder for the OP. He may wonder how things could have gone differently if he kept his 3.9.
Killing it in the last semester will go a long way to shoring up his application.

Exactly.

 

[MilMD01]

Didn't read any other posts.

With that being said..

My opinion is that your cGPA will make it all okay. If you're asked you explain how you had family problems, were distracted, or whatever excuse you have.

But overall I bet if you get a decent MCAT score and finish off your last semester well you'll get in.

 

[studmuffin]

It was a drop from 4 to 2.9 to 3.2. So that technically an upward trend for the last two.