How bad is the Walter Reed/NCC area?

[DD214_DOC]

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I will probably be applying to psychiatry (Army), so I have a whopping two choices. Tripler and NCC.

My wife is dead-set on Tripler, only because it's in Hawaii. I think she just has island fever and isnt' considering everything that goes along with it. While I think it would be cool, I also feel that she's not even considering the other option because of her stereotypical idea of the DC metro area.

So, having said that, what would it really be like? Where do most residents in the area live? For psych, since I already have my Tripler thing setup, would I need to rotate through NCC to even stand a chance if I ended up ranking it #1?

 

[orbitsurgMD]

I will probably be applying to psychiatry (Army), so I have a whopping two choices. Tripler and NCC.

My wife is dead-set on Tripler, only because it's in Hawaii. I think she just has island fever and isnt' considering everything that goes along with it. While I think it would be cool, I also feel that she's not even considering the other option because of her stereotypical idea of the DC metro area.

So, having said that, what would it really be like? Where do most residents in the area live? For psych, since I already have my Tripler thing setup, would I need to rotate through NCC to even stand a chance if I ended up ranking it #1?

Big metro area, obviously. Expensive, even now, but probably not worse than Honolulu. Living close is possible and probably preferable to commuting from anywhere you need the Beltway or I-270, which can add lots of time to travel even very early and very late. Commuting hours are earlier and later in DC.

The neighborhood around WRAMC isn't the best. I suggest looking in Silver Spring, Rockville or Kensington, MD. Bethesda is nice, lots of amenities and safe, but more expensive all around. The safe aread of Northwest offer no price advantages and the possible disadvantages of the D.C. school system, if schools are a concern. There are very nice neighborhoods to live in in Washington, though. Lots of them.

There should be ample rentals available, and I would recommend you rent for your first year in the area. This is even more true if your residency re-locates to the Bethesda Naval Hospital site with the upcoming consolidation of the National Capital Area military medical facilities.

 

[pgg]

My personal, humble opinion is that Walter Reed should be bulldozed, no two stones left atop one another, the ground sown with salt, and a monument erected to warn future generations away from whatever attitude-impairing toxic psychotropic substances poison the very air one must breath while inside that accursed, ugly building.

Bonus points if the civilian employees there are paraded through the streets of DC and flogged before being fired, their retirement/pension plans revoked. I'm undecided as to whether or not their families should be treated similarly, unto the 7th generation.

Disclaimer: I'm Navy, and haven't set foot inside WRAMC in close to 10 years. I don't know the first thing about the NCC or Tripler psych programs.

And I apologize in advance for derailing your serious question with my emotionally scarred answer.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

My personal, humble opinion is that Walter Reed should be bulldozed, no two stones left atop one another, the ground sown with salt, and a monument erected to warn future generations away from whatever attitude-impairing toxic psychotropic substances poison the very air one must breath while inside that accursed, ugly building.

Bonus points if the civilian employees there are paraded through the streets of DC and flogged before being fired, their retirement/pension plans revoked. I'm undecided as to whether or not their families should be treated similarly, unto the 7th generation.

Disclaimer: I'm Navy, and haven't set foot inside WRAMC in close to 10 years. I don't know the first thing about the NCC or Tripler psych programs.

And I apologize in advance for derailing your serious question with my emotionally scarred answer.

Nice monologue

 

[orbitsurgMD]

My personal, humble opinion is . . . .

if the civilian employees there are paraded through the streets of DC and flogged before being fired, their retirement/pension plans revoked. I'm undecided as to whether or not their families should be treated similarly, unto the 7th generation. . . .

Oh how I know the feeling. Problem is, they will just go over to the D.C. VA, where the attitude is as bad or worse. Self before service.

Nothing like people who think themselves entitled to a government paycheck; never mind about a job.

 

[HackFuJones]

Your wife is right!!! Go to Tripler, its awesome!!!!!

 

[DD214_DOC]

Your wife is right!!! Go to Tripler, its awesome!!!!!

I think it would be great, it's just intimidating when you think about everything involved in relocating to TAMC.

 

[SirGecko]

Hawaii is great but just so you know on the island "island fever" is a term refering to the desire to get off of the island. (like cabin fever)

That said I loved Hawaii when I lived there but I was in middle/high school. (and I've never lived in DC)

 

[NavyFP]

I think it would be great, it's just intimidating when you think about everything involved in relocating to TAMC.

I thought that, but TAMC is a great place to do residency. Atmosphere is relaxed. Most people are happy. When you are done from work, you are in Hawaii! Beaching it all year round. Visiting the other islands. If the school systems didn't suck, I would so go back.

Love the DC area as well (lived there on/off for the past 10 years.) But Wally World???? Yuck.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I thought that, but TAMC is a great place to do residency. Atmosphere is relaxed. Most people are happy. When you are done from work, you are in Hawaii! Beaching it all year round. Visiting the other islands. If the school systems didn't suck, I would so go back.

Love the DC area as well (lived there on/off for the past 10 years.) But Wally World???? Yuck.

Well, after discussing it with the wife, I think I am going to gun for Hawaii. I do have a son, so the school systems are important, but considering I went to school in SC they can't be any worse

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Well, after discussing it with the wife, I think I am going to gun for Hawaii. I do have a son, so the school systems are important, but considering I went to school in SC they can't be any worse

Don't bet on it.

 

[SirGecko]

Well, after discussing it with the wife, I think I am going to gun for Hawaii. I do have a son, so the school systems are important, but considering I went to school in SC they can't be any worse

How old is your son? Depending on how old you might want to look into private school. Some of them do have robust financial aid programs.

 

[TechieCock]

The public schools are orders of magnitude better at NCC (Montgomery County, specifically), at the expense of some of the worst traffic in the country. Be mindful of the schools you're zoned for, though, as some areas of Silver Spring (Wheaton, Beltsville) are a little rough.

With that said, Hawaii is oustanding. We only did 1 year there (internship), but loved it. I never left the island the entire time, but didn't have too much island fever. We made a point to visit all the other islands for vacations. There's nothing like sneaking out early and hitting the beach for a few hours!

 

[airbornedoc]

I was at the old Tripler and back again at the new Tripler a few years later as a medical student. Been to DC for work and as a reservist recalled to active duty for OEF. There is not enough money in the world to make me request to go back to the DC area. Take my advice, beg, cajole, bribe, whatever you have to do, to get to Tripler. Yea you may get some island fever but fly to another island. You can drive around the island in six hours. How often do you drive six hours to go to somewhere now? When I was a resident I didn't drive anywhere for three years except to the damn hospital. On your day off your in Hawaii and FT DeRussey is free parking to military directly on Waikiki Beach. Most residents live in the Pearl City or Aiea area. You'll work your ass off, which you're going to do anywhere, but on your rare days off you're in Hawaii and when you get home from work your wife will be in a good mood. You can't buy that, trust me. Take your vacation time sometime during residency if you really want to see DC, fly to DC, stay at FT Belvoir, and visit the historical stuff in DC, then fly the hell back to Honolulu.

Now drop and give me twenty!!!

 

[colbgw02]

TAMC over WRAMC would be an easy decision for me. I've known people that have hated Hawai'i, but invariably they were very type-A, high-strung folks that craved the fast-paced environment that WRAMC and D.C. offer.

Other than that, I can only think of two compelling reasons to go to D.C. over O'ahu. The first, as others have mentioned, are the schools. The public schools are terrible, and yes - with few exceptions - they're probably worse than those in South Carolina. The private schools are fine, but the tuition can be burdensome. The second reason would be family reasons. If you need or want to be a car ride or a short flight away from family, then Hawai'i is probably not for you.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Well, I decided on TAMC. I am really NOT the Type A gung-ho fast-paced type of person. Now I just need to do whatever I can to maximize the probability of matching there.

I have my psych audition rotation later this year. Any advice?

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

My personal, humble opinion is that Walter Reed should be bulldozed, no two stones left atop one another, the ground sown with salt, and a monument erected to warn future generations away from whatever attitude-impairing toxic psychotropic substances poison the very air one must breath while inside that accursed, ugly building.

Bonus points if the civilian employees there are paraded through the streets of DC and flogged before being fired, their retirement/pension plans revoked. I'm undecided as to whether or not their families should be treated similarly, unto the 7th generation.

Disclaimer: I'm Navy, and haven't set foot inside WRAMC in close to 10 years. I don't know the first thing about the NCC or Tripler psych programs.

And I apologize in advance for derailing your serious question with my emotionally scarred answer.

While I fully endorse what has been said about (most) of the civilian staff at WRAMC, I, for one, will be extremely dismayed when the final lock is put on the Wally World gate and we all move over to the new and improved WRNMMC. The reason for this dismay can be squarely placed on Navy GME. At least at WRAMC the Army could run GME as it sees fit without Navy input, but now...

As a resident who rotates between the 2 hospitals, here are a few of the complaints I have catalogued about NNMC, and more specifically "The Navy Way" regarding GME, military discipline, etc.

1. The Navy almost single-handedly killing the AFIP when the pathology consultant stated that it was superfluous and could save military medicine millions if it was shuttered. Never mind that it is a world renowned resource that makes all military GME better off due to its CME. Never mind that expert pathologic consultation will cost the military millions in the future. Never mind that patients will suffer due to lack of consultative services. Never mind that the Navy consultant was opposed by the Army and Air Force in his view of the reprecussions of closing the institution and recieved a promotion out of the deal.

2. The Navy requiring psych residents to take in-house call last year after years of taking home call. Then bitching furter at the residents for wearing scrubs on post-call rounds instead of military uniform.

3. Constantly receiving comments from Navy staff about wearing ACU's while at NNMC. Apparently, while at NNMC army residents should wear class B's in order to better fit in with the Navy khakis. Of course, pointing out that ACU's are the AMEDD preferred uniform results in comments on evaluations that one "lacks appropriate military discipline."

4. The constant haggling my fellow Navy residents undergo to be allowed to go to conferences, present papers, etc.

5. I know it's petty, but the Galley being closed for dinner. It is a hospital, residents on call would like to be able to get a cheap, hot meal from the cafeteria. Is it too much to ask to keep the galley open for dinner.

6. Hiring NIH Heme/Onc staff instead of bringing more Navy Heme-Onc's to NNMC. The NIH staff are some of the most dangerously incompetent staff I have ever seen, yet the Navy fellows are smart good docs, go figure.

I have heard from those that trained here in the 90's that WRAMC's demeanor was malignant and petty, but from my perspective, the pendulum has swung dramatically in the other direction. Most importantly, the trend of letting complicated patients go to civilian facilities and viewing GME as just another part of the "cost" equation are Navy issues. I believe military medicine has a vested interest in robust GME that trains the best docs for the most deserving patients, and I think the Navy would be just as happy to go the way of the Air Force and farm everything out to the civillian sector.

 

[haujun]

I will probably be applying to psychiatry (Army), so I have a whopping two choices. Tripler and NCC.

My wife is dead-set on Tripler, only because it's in Hawaii. I think she just has island fever and isnt' considering everything that goes along with it. While I think it would be cool, I also feel that she's not even considering the other option because of her stereotypical idea of the DC metro area.

So, having said that, what would it really be like? Where do most residents in the area live? For psych, since I already have my Tripler thing setup, would I need to rotate through NCC to even stand a chance if I ended up ranking it #1?

I see, you decide to go for psych over FM or IM. I believe both places (Tripler or NCC) are fine places to train and thus, they are competitive. DC metro area will offer benefits of living in large urban areas while enjoying nice suburbs in Northern VA/MD and enjoying outstanding school system. This is a nice place to raise family and you have many options. I know this as lived there almost all of my life!! Also this may not apply to you, but NCC is mega center for fellowship as well and you will learn great deal by interacting with different subspecialists.

Hawaii on other hand is a beautiful place though you will not have a free time to enjoy so much. When I rotate there many years ago my wife and I heard some horror stories about the condition of school. Because we could not afford to send our childern to private school I did not rank Tripler high.

Good luck.

 

[pgg]

While I fully endorse what has been said about (most) of the civilian staff at WRAMC, I, for one, will be extremely dismayed when the final lock is put on the Wally World gate and we all move over to the new and improved WRNMMC. The reason for this dismay can be squarely placed on Navy GME. At least at WRAMC the Army could run GME as it sees fit without Navy input, but now...

[...]

Navy GME has its issues, no doubt, as does military medicine as a whole. You're preaching to the choir regarding all the ways our fearless leaders have systematically gone about damaging GME. I think the entire system is in decline and I'm grateful training in my own specialty remains very good. I look at some other programs and I get this sick feeling in my stomach. But despite the systemic problems, of the 8 or so MTFs I've worked at in some capacity, WRAMC was the only one that stirred feelings of visceral hatred.

I went to USUHS, did multiple rotations at both NNMC & WRAMC, and was an intern at NNMC. I spent 3 years as a GMO, and when I applied for residency I thought long and hard about whether or not I would rank the NCC program at all. It was a tough call deciding if a 4th year as a GMO and leaving my family for a 3rd deployment with the Marines would be preferable to a NCC residency ... I tell people this, and they think I'm joking. It couldn't be that bad, right? Why would an anesthesia-hopeful choose another 7+ months in the desert over a NCC residency? That's crazy talk.

NNMC wasn't perfect, but it wasn't WRAMC, either. My frustrations with NNMC stemmed mainly from the asinine, extremely political overtones of everything, from a nurse-corps CO who closed clinics and put physicians on the grounds picking up trash as a team-building campus beautification exercise, to the requirement to put on a uniform for a 4 minute trip to the garage to get something from my car, to my fear that I'd get killed in the crossfire when the CRNA vs anesthesiologist kettle finally boiled over and they pulled out the guns and knives and really let each other know how they felt. At WRAMC, I would have welcomed that kind of constant political maneuvering, professional sabatoage, and general pettiness over their "make house staff and med students suffer 'cause it's funny" approach to medicine.

But that was close to 10 years ago now ...

I have heard from those that trained here in the 90's that WRAMC's demeanor was malignant and petty, but from my perspective, the pendulum has swung dramatically in the other direction.

I think the worst of my time at WRAMC was in 2000. Good to hear that things are better now. To be fair, NNMC's parting gift to me was a knife-twisting gut wound in which my all-smiles internship program director actually changed my fitrep after I'd signed it. It was more insulting than career-damaging (since my strong pulse and ability to fog a mirror got me promoted to O4 on time anyway), but I don't exactly have warm feelings toward Bethesda, either.

I won't ever go back to the NCC area, WRAMC or no WRAMC. Of all the great and just-OK places to either do 20+ or serve out my time, I just can't imagine ever going back to such a poisonous place.

And I'd bet money that the NNMC-WRAMC merger will cause those two politically-obsessed hospitals to converge in a political singularity - a twisted vortex of evil, exploitation, and savage backstabbing backroom buggery, if you will. I bet the nurse corps and tenured civilians (or whatever they are) are twitching with orgasmic glee at the opportunities before them.

If only there was a way to get them to fight each other.

Most importantly, the trend of letting complicated patients go to civilian facilities and viewing GME as just another part of the "cost" equation are Navy issues. I believe military medicine has a vested interest in robust GME that trains the best docs for the most deserving patients, and I think the Navy would be just as happy to go the way of the Air Force and farm everything out to the civillian sector.

I'm with you 100%. Outsourcing has been an unmitigated disaster for GME.

But anyway, glad to hear WRAMC is a better place to work these days, and I do genuinely hope the merger is a good one.

 

[DD214_DOC]

I see, you decide to go for psych over FM

Not completely, but currently I am leaning more towards psych. I will see how my FM ADT goes before I decided for certain. If I really, really enjoy it, I will have a tough decision.

 

[AFDuck]

Since we're discussing the area, anyone have experience with the NCC pediatrics program? How does it compare to the Portsmouth program?